• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

speaker wire question

R

Ruahrc

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
451
I recently moved into a bigger place and in the process of re-setting up my tv and speakers. The wire I was using previously seems to be a little short so I will likely end up buying a spool of speaker wire and re-cut custom lengths.

Since it's been so long since I bought speaker wire, I have forgotten a few of the basic points.

Stranded or solid core?
What gauge is appropriate? I'm prob. looking at 20-35 foot lengths max.

It doesn't need to be fancy wire. The speakers themselves are relatively simple (Klipsch 5.1 Ultra system) but I may in the future upgrade to a more robust system. I think the 5.1 ultra amp puts out in the neighborhood of 80W max RMS per satellite (if that matters any).

Lastly, if I have the opportunity I would like to buy white speaker wire so when I lay it at the edge of the carpet near the wall moldings, it blends in better. A brief search of monoprice didn't really turn up anything though so is there a better source for speaker wire?

Thanks

Ruahrc
 
Monoprice's CL2 has a white jacket.

I'd go with 12ga for that length, but 14's probably OK. It's not a question of wattage so much as the impedance of your amp & speakers. Cable resistance is added to the amp's output impedance to calculate damping factor.
 
The CL2 cable is for in-wall applications, is it still usable for out-of-wall situations? I'm not planning on routing cable in the wall, just lay it down on the floor where the wall meets the carpet. I worry that it would be too stiff to easily work with if it was in-wall. Would the mono price oxygen free copper wire be better for that? The white jacket is not critical but I figured if I were buying new wire and had a choice, I would shoot for white since it would blend in better.

I'll have to check and see what gauge my current wire is, I think it is 14AWG. I think 14 will work okay since the wire I have now is only a little short and so I would not need to go much longer.

The back of the Klipsch sub says 4 ohms minimum as far as impedance goes.
 
Home Depot has white speaker wire in various gages but it's probably more expensive than Monoprice. I've only bought MP's translucent oxygen free whatever spools, I doubt the CL2 would pose any issues indoors tho.
 
ebay has a lot of 14-18awg (gauge) OFC and SPC speaker cables ready to be terminated to either banana splits or the hook type. 100ft spools usually go for < $ 40-50 depending on where you are located. Usually come in clear teflon insulation, dual cable type.

For speaker cables I recommend going stranded over single core's. Single core wire's are not as flexible they are also microphonic and sensitive to movement which could affect sound. They also tend to snap easily compared to stranded. Difference only makes if your going with some expensive pure silver cable based on a thinner gauge solid core that you might make use in braid configurations or rectangular braids. (Separating channels). Other than that, your not an audiophile so stick with the general OFC/SPC stranded cables.

Anything 16-18awg is fine based on the speaker's you have, lower gauge number's and you will start seeing some issues with the portability and flexibility of the wire itself in case you need to run them through tight corners and nifty places.

The industry standard used for speakers is usually between 21-24awg as a baseline for you.
 
Last edited:
While I haven't used the Monoprice CL2, the outer jacket & larger conductors promise that it's less flexible than their normal wire.

I disagree that 18awg is okay for 35' runs. That's an extra 0.7ohms of output impedance, effectively turning a good SS amp into a tube amp with poor speaker damping.

FYI, a change of 3awg halves/doubles the wire's resistance.
 
I bought a spool of the Monoprice CL2. It's a little stiffer than regular stuff, but not too bad. It's quite easy to work with in a warm or hot environment. :)
Just tuck it between the carpet & baseboard.
 
The longer the distance the heavier gauge you want to use. Personally I wouldn't use worse than 16, if you're doing a 30 foot run I'd get 12.

If your sub is a powered sub it doesn't matter too much for a heavier gauge as you are only sending data not power, but generally if you have a low ohm speaker you want to use better gauge to help alleviate strain off your amp.
 
14 gauge lamp cord. Probably 30 cents/foot at Home Depot.

Really, there's nothing special here. If you want to do it "right", get 12 gauge stranded from Monoprice. If your amp and/or speakers have 5-way binding posts, get some banana ends as well; they suck a lot less than screw-type attachments.
 
A limiting factor for me is actually that the amp and speakers use the pinch-type connection where you insert the bare wire into the hole while pressing the spring loaded flap and it clamps down. At the larger gauges, the wire may actually get too large to fit into the opening.

Thanks for the suggestions on wire! I'll likely end up with 14 gauge stranded from somewhere.

Ruahrc
 
HammerSandwich said:
While I haven't used the Monoprice CL2, the outer jacket & larger conductors promise that it's less flexible than their normal wire.

I disagree that 18awg is okay for 35' runs. That's an extra 0.7ohms of output impedance, effectively turning a good SS amp into a tube amp with poor speaker damping.

FYI, a change of 3awg halves/doubles the wire's resistance.
Click to expand...

Didn't see the 35foot requirement for the wire from the OP, but in that case your quite right about dampening factor when your using a higher gauge cable for long distance runs, in that case anything between 12-16awg, probably 16 is the borderline, but 14 would be alright.

Not sure what your saying about turning a good solid state amp into a tube amp with poor speaker dampening, care to elaborate on it?
 
Ruahrc said:
A limiting factor for me is actually that the amp and speakers use the pinch-type connection where you insert the bare wire into the hole while pressing the spring loaded flap and it clamps down. At the larger gauges, the wire may actually get too large to fit into the opening.

Thanks for the suggestions on wire! I'll likely end up with 14 gauge stranded from somewhere.

Ruahrc
Click to expand...

Does your amp have the round twist speaker post with two holes, one for tightening a wire on the bottom and the other straight through hole for banana plugs? Or are you talking about the little spring loaded flap you push downwards and you stick the stranded end of the wire into that hole and then let go and the plastic flap locks the wire in?
 
if you equipment can take Banana plugs great ...


i for one have a fair number of vintage pieces that do not take banana plugs

I use these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=5975&seq=1&format=2


there is a downside... if they hit each-other they could short out...so I put heat shrink over them to avoid this (pictured below the speaker hook ups for my SX-780.

these non-banana plugs work well w/ my pioneer stuff and with spring loaded ones.. i have one old receiver that has a weird latching thing for speaker wire..they do not work with this.






Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Matthew Kane said:
Not sure what your saying about turning a good solid state amp into a tube amp with poor speaker dampening, care to elaborate on it?
Click to expand...

I was playing a little loose with terminology, etc. However, one of the major audible differences between SS & tube amps is output impedance. Tube amps typically have 0.5-2ohms more output impedance. This will cause less damping of the speaker, and the lower the speaker's input impedance, the bigger the difference. IMO, you want less than 0.1ohm output impedance from your amp, including cable.
 
HammerSandwich said:
I was playing a little loose with terminology, etc. However, one of the major audible differences between SS & tube amps is output impedance. Tube amps typically have 0.5-2ohms more output impedance. This will cause less damping of the speaker, and the lower the speaker's input impedance, the bigger the difference. IMO, you want less than 0.1ohm output impedance from your amp, including cable.
Click to expand...

The OP doesn't have golden ear's so I seriously doubt he will be able to hear any differences, unless he believes in cable placebo, not sure where it comes in but an example you can see is 5.1 speaker setups in big entertainment outlet stores most of those cables used are 20-24awg thin cheap teflon insulated SPC cables and most of them are bunched together when expanded go about 7meters + (at least the one's here does), you can do an AB test with 3-4 people include different gauge cables either in OCC silver or OFC copper/spc and 99% of those people won't be able to tell a damn difference. That's unless you add an audiophile enthusiast to the group then bias and placebo changes all impressions.

As long as the wire doesn't have fractures or damage from whatever reasons or due to bad build quality, it be the same as a zip cord. You can apply measurement and physics to anything in electronics but when it comes to cables, it's either very little subtle differences to nilch, unless your a believer of night and difference like those from 6moons.
 
I agree that cables make inaudible or minor differences in most scenarios.

However, it's unfair to imply that impedance issues - an area that's accepted by & important to EEs - is subjective-audiophile woo. Impedance interactions are known to cause significant & measurable changes, at least in certain circumstances. You can even calculate these changes just from the amp's output impedance, speaker's input impedance & cable parameters.

More importantly, minimizing your speaker cables' resistance is really easy (Lower AWG is always better, with inductance playing a much smaller role.) & costs only a few bucks extra. Magic cables are not necessary here.

Sure, if you're on a very tight budget, 12ga may be overkill. OTOH, we're talking about an extra $20 for 100 feet of wire which will last for decades. 24ga cable may save enough money for manufacturers that sell thousands of units, but it's false economy for the individual.

And I'm not sure how bias & placebo play a role in AB testing, unless you're not talking about blind testing.
 
HammerSandwich said:
I agree that cables make inaudible or minor differences in most scenarios.

However, it's unfair to imply that impedance issues - an area that's accepted by & important to EEs - is subjective-audiophile woo. Impedance interactions are known to cause significant & measurable changes, at least in certain circumstances. You can even calculate these changes just from the amp's output impedance, speaker's input impedance & cable parameters.

True, but what I did say earlier that 14-16awg would be more than enough if strictly speaking of any impedance issues you get between the amp output (whether its solidstate or tube based) and the speakers. Heck from past listening and playing around with things as such, the only difference I found between using a diy 300B tube amp > different braided configurations as well as se only 16-21awg > a pair of borrowed Paradigm bookshelfs was that if one is listening closely by AB testing, the sound is slightly smoother (< 5% difference here) when I used a lower gauge cable compared to a the standard 24awg that was a baseline. The average user will not be able to tell a single difference at all.


And I'm not sure how bias & placebo play a role in AB testing, unless you're not talking about blind testing.

What I meant is for the analogy is that, if you had 5 individuals who know nothing of cables and audio would not be able to tell a difference if you had magic cables swapped with standard cheap cables between an amp to speaker for blind testing.

If you added an audiophile enthusiast, someone who knows about cables (the effects of placebo as well and other cable factors) and audio than the impression of the blind testing would be of different result to which when you had just 5 normal participants. Bias may be thrown in as well which would lead to yet another 'objective vs subjective' discussion which has been ongoing since the dawn of speakers and audio. In the end you can use whatever cable suits you and your budget.
Click to expand...

...
 
Fair enough. I'd say we're on the same page - and probably not helping the OP much at this point...

I'll just add that changes due to impedance issues are always interactions between the specific components. Cables will produce different results when you change the amp & speakers.

(For folks who find this later via search: This is all about speaker cables. Interconnects have different requirements, namely shielding & low capacitance.)
 
atarione said:
if you equipment can take Banana plugs great ...


i for one have a fair number of vintage pieces that do not take banana plugs

I use these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=5975&seq=1&format=2


there is a downside... if they hit each-other they could short out...so I put heat shrink over them to avoid this (pictured below the speaker hook ups for my SX-780.

these non-banana plugs work well w/ my pioneer stuff and with spring loaded ones.. i have one old receiver that has a weird latching thing for speaker wire..they do not work with this.
Click to expand...

I have banana plugs on my receiver, but the speakers all have the cheap spring-clip things. Got nine pairs coming this week for <$20.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I have banana plugs on my receiver, but the speakers all have the cheap spring-clip things. Got nine pairs coming this week for <$20.
Click to expand...

Well at least you won't be having troubles terminating the ends of the wires that go into your speakers, just twist and put a layer of silver solder on it and your done (or without solder).
 
Matthew Kane said:
Well at least you won't be having troubles terminating the ends of the wires that go into your speakers, just twist and put a layer of silver solder on it and your done (or without solder).
Click to expand...

That actually is a problem; the bare wires have trouble making and maintaining contact!
 
IdiotInCharge said:
That actually is a problem; the bare wires have trouble making and maintaining contact!
Click to expand...

How so though? As long as the wire itself isn't too thin nor too thick should it just fit in through the diameter of the push clip and it be clipped downwards. It's not like the OP will be yanking the cable everyday, as long as it's snugly in, then it's fine.
 
Matthew Kane said:
How so though? As long as the wire itself isn't too thin nor too thick should it just fit in through the diameter of the push clip and it be clipped downwards. It's not like the OP will be yanking the cable everyday, as long as it's snugly in, then it's fine.
Click to expand...

I was definitely able to get it in and working, but I don't trust it. Thus I spent a few dollars on better connectors :).
 
I make my own :)

P1030252.JPG


this pair was for a friend,

P1030326.JPG

P1030329.JPG


silver wire with teflon :) ( military wire, all hand crossed too, takes long time to do, because each cross is hand moved.
 
lol nice job on the braids!

I ordered 150 feet of 14 gauge speaker wire from monoprice today. After measuring it out I only needed 100ft but that was because I was able to re-use my old wire for the front and center channels. But while I was ordering new wire for the rears, I thought I would just order another 50 feet and re-do the fronts/center too.

I also ordered 10 sets of those pin plugs- We'll see how they work out I may end up not using them on at least one end but I'm not totally sure yet.

Monoprice was significantly cheaper than what I saw at Home Depot- my whole monoprice order would have only gotten me about 100 feet of cable at Home Depot.
 
Ruahrc said:
lol nice job on the braids!

I ordered 150 feet of 14 gauge speaker wire from monoprice today. After measuring it out I only needed 100ft but that was because I was able to re-use my old wire for the front and center channels. But while I was ordering new wire for the rears, I thought I would just order another 50 feet and re-do the fronts/center too.

I also ordered 10 sets of those pin plugs- We'll see how they work out I may end up not using them on at least one end but I'm not totally sure yet.

Monoprice was significantly cheaper than what I saw at Home Depot- my whole monoprice order would have only gotten me about 100 feet of cable at Home Depot.
Click to expand...

what pins did you order ? just be carefull that they don't have full metal jackets because sometimes when pushed into a cabinet or the amplifier being against something they can short out.

These were my altimate favorite,

198_70e7d10b129ef2584ef1a56d8c7442db19fcc578.jpg


THIS is the one that i ADVISE AGAINST ! very bad

high-quality_copper_speaker_plugs_pin_crimp_type-02_0.jpg
 
Hmmm. Where did you get the plastic sleeved plugs? Only see the metal ones on monoprice.

Also, I want to change out the internal wiring and the backplate unless that is a bad idea. It is a speaker made in 1980 and it works fine but I want to play with it.
 
spaceman said:
Hmmm. Where did you get the plastic sleeved plugs? Only see the metal ones on monoprice.

Also, I want to change out the internal wiring and the backplate unless that is a bad idea. It is a speaker made in 1980 and it works fine but I want to play with it.
Click to expand...

that's a easy job :)

the connectors i was showing came from radio shack or on ebay, they are awesome :)

the wire i used was from Ebay from navship's i believe his id is. AWESOME GUY and great wire. its all military silver wire and teflon jacket, I've been using it to build all sorts of audio cables nad using it in my class a amps ( different guages etc etc )
 
I did get the metal plugs from monoprice, but as was recommended I also picked up heat shrink tubing as well so I can coat the housings. It's possible that I will only use half the plugs though, and that they will be used in a fashion that would not really let them short anyways. I'll have a play with it when I get the stuff.
 
dashpuppy said:
that's a easy job :)

the connectors i was showing came from radio shack or on ebay, they are awesome :)

the wire i used was from Ebay from navship's i believe his id is. AWESOME GUY and great wire. its all military silver wire and teflon jacket, I've been using it to build all sorts of audio cables nad using it in my class a amps ( different guages etc etc )
Click to expand...

No such ebay member. link?
 
Impulse said:
Ribbon tweeter transplant?
Click to expand...

2gsi's ( they are older ) but i love them. I find with my ear that i like a bit of more high end so i added a tweeter. the speakers are 6" full range fostex, in a half chili design, they make TONS of bass, i use 4 x 15 watt class a amps and sometimes switch between my passive pre-amp and my B1 pre amp :0

All Nelson Pass stuff..

Waiting to hear back about my amplifier chassis to get them finished..
 
diy?

What would you recommend for an entry level kit? I am interested in making an amp and speakers. I really like the ones you have. I agree about the extra high end. My issue is $$ until wifey gets out of school for the second time.
 
spaceman said:
diy?

What would you recommend for an entry level kit? I am interested in making an amp and speakers. I really like the ones you have. I agree about the extra high end. My issue is $$ until wifey gets out of school for the second time.
Click to expand...

diy yes yes, i have the plans in a pdf if you want them.

the drivers aren't to expensive either, they are VERY efficient so only need about 5-6 watts.
 
Ruahrc said:
I did get the metal plugs from monoprice, but as was recommended I also picked up heat shrink tubing as well so I can coat the housings. It's possible that I will only use half the plugs though, and that they will be used in a fashion that would not really let them short anyways. I'll have a play with it when I get the stuff.
Click to expand...

it is worth it to head shrink them ..but I have been using the momoprice ones for a year without any troubles ...i did indeed heatshrink them before using with my amp however.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top