Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD, why use it?

Snowdensjacket

Snowdensjacket

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
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366
So I was going through some of the boxes and boxes of old hardware I've accumulated and found this soundcard. I'm not even sure when or how I got it.

Is it worth installing? I use my PC for gaming only. Either with headphones at my desk or controllers through to my TV. I run the audio through the HDMI cable into my 7.1 receiver, but the only game I've played that actually had surround sound was Witcher 3.

My headphones I just plug into the motherboard audio. An ASRock 370 killer SLI/AC with realtek audio.

Any reason to actually use a soundcard these days?
 
I'd recommend giving it a shot; if your headphones are of a reasonable impedance, the X-Fi Titanium HD supports up to 330Ω, they might provide a better surround experience due to Creative's better game support. Emphasis on might.

I've considered getting a Creative card and outputting to optical to a DAC/Amp myself.
 
Snowdensjacket said:
I should probably get a better pair of headphones then.
Click to expand...

So long as you have a clean output signal with enough power, better headphones will yield the largest improvement. What do you have now, what do you like and dislike about it, what do you want to improve, and how much would you want to spend?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
So long as you have a clean output signal with enough power, better headphones will yield the largest improvement. What do you have now, what do you like and dislike about it, what do you want to improve, and how much would you want to spend?
Click to expand...

I have a very crappy pair of Sony headphones. They are inadequate and worse, very uncomfortable.

I haven't looked into new headphones. My last good pair was some sennheiser pair that I lost during my divorce. I'll have to do some research. I'd be looking to spend ~$150 to get something quality. Having owned quality headphones in the past I certainly can attest to the difference in sound quality.
 
It's a fantastic card. You just need an external headphone AMP because it lacks an internal one like the newer cards come with. CMSS-3D is still arguably the best software solution for positional accuracy in gaming. I run mine via RCA outs to a Valhalla 2 tube amp and Sennheiser HD800, and am in audio glory. 6 years and running strong, by far the oldest component in my system! I'm tempted to try out the new AE-5 but I'm not sure what gains, if any, there are to be had in terms of positional surround quality.
 
NukeDukem said:
I'm tempted to try out the new AE-5 but I'm not sure what gains, if any, there are to be had in terms of positional surround quality.
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You know, I actually have an X-Fi Titanium that I'd bought used here on the [H] like six or seven years ago. And I don't even want the DACs, just the processing and stereo output over TOSLINK.

Thing is, the card basically stopped working when I went from a Z77 board to a Z170 board; that board is now in another machine, so I might just plug it in and see what comes out. If it works, hopefully the software results in a better experience than the weirdness I saw when I tried an SBZ, where the channels kept dropping out.
 
I don't even know how to set it up. Do I need to do anything other than install the drivers?

I've got it in my build, connected to the front panel on my cooler master haf something. From what I've read so far the rear headphone jack can power better headphones or something. But honestly I don't understand what I'm reading.

So for this card to get optimal sound quality, which won't matter until I get some quality headphones anyway, do I need to do anything more than install the drivers?
 
NukeDukem said:
It's a fantastic card. You just need an external headphone AMP because it lacks an internal one like the newer cards come with. CMSS-3D is still arguably the best software solution for positional accuracy in gaming. I run mine via RCA outs to a Valhalla 2 tube amp and Sennheiser HD800, and am in audio glory. 6 years and running strong, by far the oldest component in my system! I'm tempted to try out the new AE-5 but I'm not sure what gains, if any, there are to be had in terms of positional surround quality.
Click to expand...

Is it worth investing into a headphone only amp? It certainly would be nice to be able to turn a dial for the volume...

Do you have any recommendations?
 
...and its worth somewhere between $350 and $450 on ebay. If you dont like it, dont just toss it.
 
I'd say it's worth keeping around if you have any intentions of using headphones with CMSS-3D Headphone properly. Otherwise, as you said, you have a 7.1 surround sound receiver setup and HDMI, which bypasses any internal sound card you may have in your system.

Also, it technically has a headphone amp in the sense that all headphone outputs are amplified to some degree, albeit greatly varying degrees. I always figured that anyone who wants to buy demanding headphones should have an amp to match anyway, and that goes double if you want to dip into electrostatics due to the requirement for specialized amplifiers (or the kludgery of a transformer box). Besides, it'd be worth it just to have an easily-accessible volume dial without being at the mercy of software volume controls.

As for the $350-450 statement, I find that incredibly hard to believe, considering most eBay listings actually have them selling in the $75-150 range from listing history. However, it does appear that at least one person out there was foolish enough to actually pay $500 for that card when they could have bought the Onkyo Wavio SE-300PCIE instead. Never heard of it? That's because it was a Japan-only card with an actual X-Fi hardware DSP, fully discrete analog stages, and an obscene price tag to match.
 
NamelessPFG said:
I'd say it's worth keeping around if you have any intentions of using headphones with CMSS-3D Headphone properly. Otherwise, as you said, you have a 7.1 surround sound receiver setup and HDMI, which bypasses any internal sound card you may have in your system.

Also, it technically has a headphone amp in the sense that all headphone outputs are amplified to some degree, albeit greatly varying degrees. I always figured that anyone who wants to buy demanding headphones should have an amp to match anyway, and that goes double if you want to dip into electrostatics due to the requirement for specialized amplifiers (or the kludgery of a transformer box). Besides, it'd be worth it just to have an easily-accessible volume dial without being at the mercy of software volume controls.

As for the $350-450 statement, I find that incredibly hard to believe, considering most eBay listings actually have them selling in the $75-150 range from listing history. However, it does appear that at least one person out there was foolish enough to actually pay $500 for that card when they could have bought the Onkyo Wavio SE-300PCIE instead. Never heard of it? That's because it was a Japan-only card with an actual X-Fi hardware DSP, fully discrete analog stages, and an obscene price tag to match.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. To take advantage of CMSS 3D do I need to do anything other than install the drivers for the sound card? I'm not a audiophile but I do have a decent receiver and a set of decent speakers. Need to get better headphones but I would like to take advantage of the technology I've got.

Will get a headphone amp as well. I need to give it a bit of time for my post Christmas finances to rebuild.
 
Snowdensjacket said:
Thanks for your reply. To take advantage of CMSS 3D do I need to do anything other than install the drivers for the sound card? I'm not a audiophile but I do have a decent receiver and a set of decent speakers. Need to get better headphones but I would like to take advantage of the technology I've got.

Will get a headphone amp as well. I need to give it a bit of time for my post Christmas finances to rebuild.
Click to expand...
It's slightly more complicated than just installing the drivers for most games released in the last 10 years (anything that doesn't use DirectSound3D or OpenAL, basically).

You have to go in and set the X-Fi Control Panel/Console Launcher to "Headphones", which does two things: allow you to use CMSS-3D Headphone (which should not be confused with the similar-sounding CMSS-3D Virtual for stereo speakers, or CMSS-3D Surround stereo upmix for 5.1), and also ensures that the X-Fi's native control panel won't automatically sync itself with the speaker settings in the Windows sound control panel, which should be set to 5.1 so that games actually try to use the extra channels.

Also, make sure you're in Game Mode, not Entertainment Mode. The latter gives you the THX TruStudio Surround/SBX Pro Surround options instead, and for the really old titles that would take advantage of the X-Fi's hardware sound acceleration, they don't get the full benefit outside of Game Mode.

Other than that, you're pretty much good to go. The only reason I'd think of to deviate from this would be to use bit-matched playback and ASIO in Audio Creation Mode for music listening, but I'm reasonably sure you'd rather do that through the HDMI path to your AVR and surround speakers.
 
So, quick question:

How do you get the soundcard to pipe the processed audio out of the TOSLINK? I have to select 'SPDIF Out' to get audio to my DAC, as far as I can tell, and the Creative software appears to only affect the analog outputs.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
So, quick question:

How do you get the soundcard to pipe the processed audio out of the TOSLINK? I have to select 'SPDIF Out' to get audio to my DAC, as far as I can tell, and the Creative software appears to only affect the analog outputs.
Click to expand...
Console Launcher:
Settings button -> Digital I/O tab -> check "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output"

Audio Control Panel:
S/PDIF I/O tab -> check "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output"

It's a bit complicated to get to, especially since Creative has two control panels with different layouts (and you can launch either from the menu that shows if you left-click the Volume Panel icon in the system tray, should you use it), but the checkbox in question is what you want. Two-channel output like it would send through the analog outputs will bitstream just fine, even with a CMSS-3D Headphone mix applied.
 
I believe I have this checked in both places- and I'll check again when I get home and report back. Thanks!
 
I would keep it for mini PC dedicated audio setup with Windows 7 installed. That soundcard is godly with Win7 drivers but sounds like absolutely generic trash with Win10 drivers.
 
mknlb50 said:
I would keep it for mini PC dedicated audio setup with Windows 7 installed. That soundcard is godly with Win7 drivers but sounds like absolutely generic trash with Win10 drivers.
Click to expand...

No, in no way does the soundcard sound any different in 7, 8.1, or 10 unless you are doing something wrong or something is broken. Even if you were using nothing but the most generic drivers, the DAC would still sound exactly the same, you just wouldn't have access to the features on the card. If you were using the Creative EQ while you had Windows 7 and then you upgraded to 10, it has a habit of resetting the EQ to default when you re-install the drivers, which would cause it to sound different than what you are used to. Maybe that is what you heard. If you think something different happened in your case I'd love to hear more.
 
GotNoRice said:
No, in no way does the soundcard sound any different in 7, 8.1, or 10 unless you are doing something wrong or something is broken. Even if you were using nothing but the most generic drivers, the DAC would still sound exactly the same, you just wouldn't have access to the features on the card. If you were using the Creative EQ while you had Windows 7 and then you upgraded to 10, it has a habit of resetting the EQ to default when you re-install the drivers, which would cause it to sound different than what you are used to. Maybe that is what you heard. If you think something different happened in your case I'd love to hear more.
Click to expand...

To summarize (in support of GotNoRice's comment): the difference here is a difference of software, which absolutely can change how your audio sounds, but the hardware remains the same. Get the software in the same place and your sound should return to what you remember.
 
Can the Titanium HD be configured in Windows as a 7.1 audio device so all the 7 channels can be used for CMSS-3D with headphones? On my regular Titanium it can, and I wouldn't want to lose 2 channels of positioning info if I moved to an HD.
 
linuxdude9 said:
Can the Titanium HD be configured in Windows as a 7.1 audio device so all the 7 channels can be used for CMSS-3D with headphones? On my regular Titanium it can, and I wouldn't want to lose 2 channels of positioning info if I moved to an HD.
Click to expand...
5.1's the max on a Titanium HD, since Creative didn't see any point in pretending it could do a full 7.1 speaker setup when it only has two analog channels and does 5.1 through Dolby Digital/DTS-compressed S/PDIF. That said, I don't find the missing channels to hinder positioning too much in more modern games.

If you already have a standard X-Fi Titanium, I'd say the real upgrade to be made is enabling "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" and piping the CMSS-3D Headphone-processed PCM signal to an external S/PDIF DAC.
 
linuxdude9 said:
Can the Titanium HD be configured in Windows as a 7.1 audio device so all the 7 channels can be used for CMSS-3D with headphones? On my regular Titanium it can, and I wouldn't want to lose 2 channels of positioning info if I moved to an HD.
Click to expand...
While I would easily argue that 7.1 is superior to 5.1 when using discrete speakers, I'd be surprised if the difference was noticeable with when downmixed for headphones. With a proper 5.1 setup, it can convincingly simulate audio in the rear; 7.1 does rear audio cleaner, but 5.1 is good and probably good enough for CMSS-3D.
 
NamelessPFG said:
5.1's the max on a Titanium HD, since Creative didn't see any point in pretending it could do a full 7.1 speaker setup when it only has two analog channels and does 5.1 through Dolby Digital/DTS-compressed S/PDIF. That said, I don't find the missing channels to hinder positioning too much in more modern games.

If you already have a standard X-Fi Titanium, I'd say the real upgrade to be made is enabling "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" and piping the CMSS-3D Headphone-processed PCM signal to an external S/PDIF DAC.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I ended up doing with a Schiit stack. I'm hoping the smyth Realizer A16 actually comes out this year, then I'll be covered on PC and my game consoles.
 
NamelessPFG said:
Console Launcher:
Settings button -> Digital I/O tab -> check "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output"

Audio Control Panel:
S/PDIF I/O tab -> check "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output"

It's a bit complicated to get to, especially since Creative has two control panels with different layouts (and you can launch either from the menu that shows if you left-click the Volume Panel icon in the system tray, should you use it), but the checkbox in question is what you want. Two-channel output like it would send through the analog outputs will bitstream just fine, even with a CMSS-3D Headphone mix applied.
Click to expand...

So I've done this- but the X-Fi doesn't pipe the audio to the SPDIF port. I get nothing when the 'Speakers' device is set to default in the Sound -> Playback tab, and I just get a straight Windows stereo mix (or Dolby Headphone) if 'SPDIF Out' is selected.

Really no reason to keep the X-Fi card in if I'm just going to be piping the Windows mix out; I can do that from the onboard :/.


*Further note: I'm trying to use CMSS-3D Headphone to take a 7.1 mix and output it through SPDIF as stereo.
 
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IdiotInCharge said:
So I've done this- but the X-Fi doesn't pipe the audio to the SPDIF port. I get nothing when the 'Speakers' device is set to default in the Sound -> Playback tab, and I just get a straight Windows stereo mix (or Dolby Headphone) if 'SPDIF Out' is selected.

Really no reason to keep the X-Fi card in if I'm just going to be piping the Windows mix out; I can do that from the onboard :/.


*Further note: I'm trying to use CMSS-3D Headphone to take a 7.1 mix and output it through SPDIF as stereo.
Click to expand...

It works for me on my Titanium. Set your sound device to headphones in the creative control panel and enable the Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output option. In Windows->Sound->Playback, set your speaker device to 7.1. Don't set the audio output here to SPDIF.
 
This is what I have set up:

upload_2018-2-6_11-3-41.png


This setup results in no audio being played through SPDIF.
 
that's how I have mine setup too.. mainly because my DAC goes crazy when trying to feed it DTS or DD.

Also not sure if you meant to.. but the pic above shows analog as the default.
 
magnetik said:
that's how I have mine setup too.. mainly because my DAC goes crazy when trying to feed it DTS or DD.

Also not sure if you meant to.. but the pic above shows analog as the default.
Click to expand...

I *do* mean to. That sets Windows to send audio to the X-Fi, which should then be applying CMSS-3D Headphone and porting that out to SPDIF.

If I select SPDIF, no CMSS-3D (or anything else) from the X-Fi. Might as well yank the card and use onboard.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I *do* mean to. That sets Windows to send audio to the X-Fi, which should then be applying CMSS-3D Headphone and porting that out to SPDIF.

If I select SPDIF, no CMSS-3D (or anything else) from the X-Fi. Might as well yank the card and use onboard.
Click to expand...

Are you using the Daniel_K drivers?
 
I'd grab the Daniel K drivers, they open up all the software options for basically all the SB cards.

I've been using a X-Fi titanium for 10 or 15 years now.... I might have given up by now, but I still use the optical input all the time for my PS4
 
I'm using the Daniel_K drivers with success. Everything about your setup looks correct.
Burticus said:
I'd grab the Daniel K drivers, they open up all the software options for basically all the SB cards.

I've been using a X-Fi titanium for 10 or 15 years now.... I might have given up by now, but I still use the optical input all the time for my PS4
Click to expand...

What do you do with the optical input? Pipe it back out to your speakers/headphones?
 
I use the Daniel_K drivers by default with all X-Fi cards; it makes setup much less of a hassle, particularly on more modern versions of Windows.

IdiotInCharge: You do have everything set up correctly from the looks of it, but the apparent lack of S/PDIF output on your end regardless just plain baffles me. I've been there before when doing CMSS-3D/Dolby Headphone comparisons through my Victor (JVC) SU-DH1, and PCM output through that thing worked just fine. The only difference is that I'm using an X-Fi Titanium HD instead of any of the older models that would've needed that FlexiJack tab.
 
linuxdude9 said:
What do you do with the optical input? Pipe it back out to your speakers/headphones?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The PS4 only has hdmi and optical audio output, and my monitors don't have audio outputs (just tiny, horrible, internal speakers). So when I want to play PS4 in my office (you know, when someone else is watching HGTV on the living room big screen) I plug it into the digital input on the Soundblaster. That means my computer has to be on to route the signal, but it's always on anyway if I'm in the office.

It works fine... sometimes I have to fiddle with the dig input mixer settings but it's totally workable. If there is an audio lag I haven't noticed it.

If consoles ever get rid of the optical port I'll have to get creative. Will probably involve an audio/video receiver to handle the audio.

edit - I almost forgot about the headphone port on the controller, but it never fails that if I put headphone on to play a game the Mrs will have some sort of emergency. And she'll come busting into my room yelling at me that I didn't hear her crying about the kitchen being on fire. Or the remote control needs batteries. Etc...
 
NamelessPFG said:
I use the Daniel_K drivers by default with all X-Fi cards; it makes setup much less of a hassle, particularly on more modern versions of Windows.

IdiotInCharge: You do have everything set up correctly from the looks of it, but the apparent lack of S/PDIF output on your end regardless just plain baffles me. I've been there before when doing CMSS-3D/Dolby Headphone comparisons through my Victor (JVC) SU-DH1, and PCM output through that thing worked just fine. The only difference is that I'm using an X-Fi Titanium HD instead of any of the older models that would've needed that FlexiJack tab.
Click to expand...

The Daniel K drivers make using the Creative cards a lot easier to handle software wise .
 
Is there a way to send the XFi DSP signal over USB into an external DAC (instead of the usual optical or coax route)? Is there any additional CPU overhead for using USB?

Also, for mixing 5.1 signals into headphone using CMSS3D: do the games themselves need to be OpenAL or would it work with any game?
 
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christpunchers said:
Is there a way to send the XFi DSP signal over USB into an external DAC (instead of the usual optical or coax route)? Is there any additional CPU overhead for using USB?

Also, for mixing 5.1 signals into headphone using CMSS3D: do the games themselves need to be OpenAL or would it work with any game?
Click to expand...
There was a trick for that present since Windows 7, but later testing revealed enough of an audio quality penalty for me to advise against it, since it sounds worse than just using the Titanium HD's own analog outputs or a good S/PDIF DAC.

The whole point of OpenAL (and DirectSound3D before it) is that it's object-based audio decades before Dolby even thought of doing it with Atmos, and that you're not confined to arbitrary speaker configurations. However, CMSS-3D Headphone still functions as a virtual 5.1/7.1 surround mixer in games that can only provide that, like pretty much everything released in the past decade using XAudio2 or other software-mixed solutions.

Thankfully, game developers are no longer treating headphone users as second-class citizens, starting somewhere between the time Battlefield 3 became huge (and was a massive improvement over the garbage positional mixing in Bad Company 2) and when Overwatch took the FPS scene by storm. There's usually an in-game headphone audio mix that provides decent positioning without having to have your sound card drivers do it... but of course, that only works for that specific game, not all the others that treated headphone users as an afterthought.

I still use it because I care about all those old DS3D/OAL games, but for people who don't, it's probably a lot easier just to get a Sennheiser GSX 1000 (assuming a much lower price than MSRP) and call it a day. Very good surround audio mixing, almost plug and play through USB (gotta go into the Sound control panel and configure everything accordingly, still), but the sound quality gets curbstomped by a card of the Titanium HD's caliber, which you may notice with better speakers or headphones.
 
NamelessPFG said:
There was a trick for that present since Windows 7, but later testing revealed enough of an audio quality penalty for me to advise against it, since it sounds worse than just using the Titanium HD's own analog outputs or a good S/PDIF DAC.

The whole point of OpenAL (and DirectSound3D before it) is that it's object-based audio decades before Dolby even thought of doing it with Atmos, and that you're not confined to arbitrary speaker configurations. However, CMSS-3D Headphone still functions as a virtual 5.1/7.1 surround mixer in games that can only provide that, like pretty much everything released in the past decade using XAudio2 or other software-mixed solutions.

Thankfully, game developers are no longer treating headphone users as second-class citizens, starting somewhere between the time Battlefield 3 became huge (and was a massive improvement over the garbage positional mixing in Bad Company 2) and when Overwatch took the FPS scene by storm. There's usually an in-game headphone audio mix that provides decent positioning without having to have your sound card drivers do it... but of course, that only works for that specific game, not all the others that treated headphone users as an afterthought.

I still use it because I care about all those old DS3D/OAL games, but for people who don't, it's probably a lot easier just to get a Sennheiser GSX 1000 (assuming a much lower price than MSRP) and call it a day. Very good surround audio mixing, almost plug and play through USB (gotta go into the Sound control panel and configure everything accordingly, still), but the sound quality gets curbstomped by a card of the Titanium HD's caliber, which you may notice with better speakers or headphones.
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I see. But outputting CMSS3D Headphone signal from a XFi card through optical to an external DAC is still good, right?
 
christpunchers said:
I see. But outputting CMSS3D Headphone signal from a XFi card through optical to an external DAC is still good, right?
Click to expand...

I could never get this working with my X-Fi...

New motherboard came with Creative software, and it does work through optical flawlessly.
 
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