I have a broadband network connection connected to my onboard NIC. There is a mail monitoring program running in the background. I ran Foobar with ASIO selected and then ran the latency checker with the music playing.
Thank you for this.
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Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium HD Sound Card Review @ [H]
- Thread starter FrgMstr
- Start date
Thank you for this.
i agree, which is why i'm surprised creative didn't try and trump or at least match the speaker shifter options.
I've had two X-fi models over the years. The first one was PCI based and worked wonderfully; I had no problems with it whatsoever, other than one minor issue which was that the card didn't work in Vista or Windows 7. The second one I had worked ok in Vista and 7 but didn't have any drivers for XP.
The second one also had the now-infamous "snap crackle pop" syndrome, which drove me bananas in terms of trying out different drivers, moving cables around, reseating over and over, until finally I just switched back to my onboard sound and never used the X-fi again. The DPC latency when I tested it on the second card mentioned above would go from green to deep in the red zone. I had been using Creative products for years before the X-fi line and was excited when the chipset came out, but I believe they dropped the ball on the drivers at the time.
From researching the issue on "snap crackle pop", it seems that in some cases it was caused by EMI, which would make sense since the card that I purchased had absolutely no EMI shielding over it whatsoever - something Creative supposedly fixed in it's Titanium line. Which makes sense in that the "snap crackle pop" was much less reported with the more heavily shielded products.
I am cautious about approaching a new card by Creative because of this past experience; I don't want to get burned again by purchasing a card that I end up leaving in a box because of issues with crackling, or the driver not working in 64 bit windows 7, etc..
The main drawback to this card seems to be the headphone limitations mentioned in the article. I am heavily debating right now between this Creative card and the ASUS Xonar Essence ST/ ASUS Xonar Essence STX, so far it seems the Xonar edges out the creative due to the headphone amps.
The second one also had the now-infamous "snap crackle pop" syndrome, which drove me bananas in terms of trying out different drivers, moving cables around, reseating over and over, until finally I just switched back to my onboard sound and never used the X-fi again. The DPC latency when I tested it on the second card mentioned above would go from green to deep in the red zone. I had been using Creative products for years before the X-fi line and was excited when the chipset came out, but I believe they dropped the ball on the drivers at the time.
From researching the issue on "snap crackle pop", it seems that in some cases it was caused by EMI, which would make sense since the card that I purchased had absolutely no EMI shielding over it whatsoever - something Creative supposedly fixed in it's Titanium line. Which makes sense in that the "snap crackle pop" was much less reported with the more heavily shielded products.
I am cautious about approaching a new card by Creative because of this past experience; I don't want to get burned again by purchasing a card that I end up leaving in a box because of issues with crackling, or the driver not working in 64 bit windows 7, etc..
The main drawback to this card seems to be the headphone limitations mentioned in the article. I am heavily debating right now between this Creative card and the ASUS Xonar Essence ST/ ASUS Xonar Essence STX, so far it seems the Xonar edges out the creative due to the headphone amps.
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Fenris_Ulf
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I too would like to know what opamp was used. Opamps do have minor differences, but they don't "break in", instead the listener's brain just adjusts and percieves the change as normal.
Besides the lack of objective testing, what annoys me is the lack of understanding of what impedance is and how it relates to driving headphones.
Besides the lack of objective testing, what annoys me is the lack of understanding of what impedance is and how it relates to driving headphones.
Your point is noted. Please see below for what I later added. I was pressed for time at the moment, but I was able to clarify later.
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King of Heroes
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Is there even a remote possibility you'll do any kind of testing of the USB-based X-Fi HD? I don't care so much audio quality, I just want to have one less discrete card in my case and still have the same level of OpenAL support that I get from my current X-Fi (since, unfortunately, Creative is the only soundcard maker that gives a shit about OpenAL).
Not interested. When I want good SQ for music I digitally feed either my EMU 0404 USB or my Denon receiver. My Asus mb Realtek HD audio SQ is fine for gaming with and is not even bad for music either. I've always hated the Creative driver dance too. I do have an X-Fi but it is in my closet collecting dust.
The "driver dance" part I am familiar with myself. I had no problems with the driver in Windows 7 64 at all under two installations. As I said, I used to use an original Titanium and it took me waiting for 2.17.007 and later .008 until all of my problems went away. The last two versions of Alchemy also cleared up my legacy problems. Hope this helps.
I don't get what you're saying. You prefer the creative sound blaster over Auzentech's forte?
I tested SPDIF pass-through, analog out with two channel playback, and 5 channel analog out. The X-FI Titanium HD does not have rear or center/sub jacks. I thought it best to show that if a potential buyer of this card only had bookshelf speakers, it would work in analog mode.
If he had optical out to a receiver, PowerDVD would work with Dolby or DTS encoding the analog that PowerDVD can DECODE for analog 5.1 and 7.1 systems. And lastly, If you prefer your receiver's capability to decode the Dolby or DTS of the DVD then SPDIF worked just fine as a PowerDVD option as well. The SPDIF out was not working for quite some time under VISTA unless users really fiddled with it and third party codec packs. No third party codecs had to be used. Thus no guesswork.
I think that covers the PowerDVD works in every configuration of the Titanium HD quite well.
Thanks for your time and question.
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The snap crackle and pop was not caused by EMI shielding to the best of my knowledge. I have frequented the Creative forum and it is quite commonly known that SCP was caused by NVIDIA Nforce chipsets, Some Geforce cards, a few INTEL chipsets, and their incompatibility with certain Creative cards.
I gave up my motherboard with Vista's arrival because Nforce 3 250 did not work with ATI video cards, but it worked extremely well with an XP dual boot. Something incompatible definitely existed back then with Nforce and new drivers created since never fully fixed the chipset's incompatibilities.
Creative introduced a few "workaround" but never fully compatible drivers for the SCP issue, but again that was quite awhile ago.
I wont keep beating that dead horse, because the Titanium HD is not any of those cards that previously had the problem or incompatibility.
I have appreciated all of the feedback very much.
I gave up my motherboard with Vista's arrival because Nforce 3 250 did not work with ATI video cards, but it worked extremely well with an XP dual boot. Something incompatible definitely existed back then with Nforce and new drivers created since never fully fixed the chipset's incompatibilities.
Creative introduced a few "workaround" but never fully compatible drivers for the SCP issue, but again that was quite awhile ago.
I wont keep beating that dead horse, because the Titanium HD is not any of those cards that previously had the problem or incompatibility.
I have appreciated all of the feedback very much.
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King of Heroes
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So, based on the lack of response, I guess its safe to assume 'no'?
That card has not been made available to us as of yet, but yes I would absolutely like to test and review it.
The specs on its signal to noise ratio for a USB device are quite decent for "mainstream" USB sound cards and certainly better than a lot of onboard sound. I am not talking about headphone DACs. It is nice to use an external card so the same sound is carried with the user wherever he goes. Also the portability for laptops is great as well.
The specs on its signal to noise ratio for a USB device are quite decent for "mainstream" USB sound cards and certainly better than a lot of onboard sound. I am not talking about headphone DACs. It is nice to use an external card so the same sound is carried with the user wherever he goes. Also the portability for laptops is great as well.
As stated clearly in the review and product specifications, the front panel output is only rated at 33 Ohms. It certainly cannot supply certain brands and models of headphones properly while the 330 Ohm amplifier on the back of the Titanium HD will without issue.
So if a relatively high impedance headphone set's use should not hurt anything in the long or short term, high impedance headphones in general need so much more to perform as advertised and without issue. The 33 Ohm front panel jack will not and cannot do it properly. The front panel will output a very diminished or decreased volume level over that adequately output by the amplifier. Sound quality will be quite poor, no question.
The whole point, in my opinion, of the card's duality with front panel vs. rear headphone amplifier is that average drug store headphones and/or low impedance headphones used on your front panel will be fine for average use.
Those with good cans that require up to 330 ohms can simply use the back amp with no worries.
Cheers and thanks for the comments
I see people asking about the cards opamps so for those that are interested, the differential input I/V converter section uses JRC2114D's(dual channel opamps) and the single ended buffer uses LME49710HA's(single channel opamps)
There seems to be some misunderstanding surrounding the headphone output or a mix up in terms. It is true that this card has a dedicated output for headphones. However, this card does NOT have a headphone amplifer.
for example, cards such as the STX,ST, Auzen Forte, HTHD, Bravura..have dedicated circuitry for amplification, either using a chip based headphone amplifer or a discrete design.
Hope that helps.
There seems to be some misunderstanding surrounding the headphone output or a mix up in terms. It is true that this card has a dedicated output for headphones. However, this card does NOT have a headphone amplifer.
for example, cards such as the STX,ST, Auzen Forte, HTHD, Bravura..have dedicated circuitry for amplification, either using a chip based headphone amplifer or a discrete design.
Hope that helps.
I find it unbelievable that it won't do 5.1 or 7.1 analogue out.... May as well just keep my PCI-E Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty. I thought the whole idea was to use the sound cards 'performance' not bypass it using an spdif to my av amp..... Am I wrong? really wanted to like this card...
It's a high end sound card, I would expect all of it's outputs to work with high end headphones. The idea that someone is going to buy a high end sound card and couple it with "drug store headphones" means either the product is targeted at idiots or the product has a critical fault.
Yes, currently the card is only stereo output throguh analog and surround through digital. However, the card does have a expansion header on the back. It may just be for a bay or it may be for a exapnsion card like seen on other products. This is all just speculation though..
We asked Creative about the expansion header early in testing, but the plans simply were not finalized. I thought perhaps people could use their I/O bays they bought a few years back with this card, but Creative may have something totally different in mind. I used the ASUS H6 with a PCI version of the Essence and it installed very easily and quickly. Here is to hoping Creative will reveal its plan soon.
SixFootDuo
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Wow, a good reciever is expensive, $200 - $300 just starting out. Creative expects people to spend $180 dollars on their new sound card and only then if they have a reciever near their PC, and I can assure you, most people don't, then that's the only way they can get surround sound via optical? You are kidding me?
I've heard that a few 4.1 / 5.1 speakers for pc have optical but unsure of this. I know my Klipsh 5.1's don't.
A lot of people have 4.1 and 5.1 speakers.
That is nuts.
I've heard that a few 4.1 / 5.1 speakers for pc have optical but unsure of this. I know my Klipsh 5.1's don't.
A lot of people have 4.1 and 5.1 speakers.
That is nuts.
The card is meant for high end stereo output.
for gaming, you also have the option for virtual surround sound over headphones via' CMSS-3D.
If you want surround sound over analog connections you have to look elsewhere for now.
I would also think the same would be true for competing sound card companies where their cards have nearly identical back planes, i.e. HTOmega and ASUS.
I think the difference is that the competitors cards (Essence STX, Claro Halo) justify their price by including a dedicated headphone amp cards where as the Titanium HD does not.
I wouldn't say that as in many cases the components used for the amps are very cheap.
The price comes from the expensive DAC's and other high grade components. The current crop of high end cards are all using very similar components and circuit layouts.
The price comes from the expensive DAC's and other high grade components. The current crop of high end cards are all using very similar components and circuit layouts.
So why the hell didn't they include one?
Good question.
Ahh ok thank you for the info. I didn't know there was an official answer, there was a lot of speculation tossed around during the whole period of the SCP issue, after a certain point of trying so many things I just gave up and put the card in a box and never took it out again.
King of Heroes
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Digital has practically become the standard for multi-channel audio output (well, above 2.1 at least), either through optical, coaxial or HDMI. Hell, many receivers don't even have multi-channel analog input anymore (or if they do, they command a noticeable premium). Its just expected that you'll use digital. The most popular 5.1 speakers for PCs by far, the Logitech Z-5500s, has optical input.
It's uninstalling Creative drivers and switching to a different soundcard when it can become a real PITA. I used to use a driver sweeper to have to make sure all creative crap was gone. 350mb of drivers and stuff with this new card is just insane.
DACs bought in bulk are only about five bucks each so they are not expensive components.
Depends who you ask.
In theory any solid state audio should always sound the same but there are people who believe a SS amp will sound different after warming up. Can't say I ever noticed any dif myself though.
There is such a thing as wire biasing. I remember reading about it many many years ago. I forget much of the detail now.
But my Denon receiver sitting right next to my PC already has virtual surround for headphones. With digital connection from my mb to my receiver this soundcard from Creative offers me nothing I don't already have except hardware acceleration for some old games using Alchemy. I highly doubt it has better SQ than either my EMU 0404 USB or Denon receiver.
Another setup I have for good SQ for music is my laptop going to my receiver via ATI HDMI. I bought a long HDMI cable and can now sit on my couch and listen to music on my stereo from my laptop.
In many cases though newer soundcards will have higher end DAC's then the receivers when people use the S/Pdif input section. This is not to say the receiver is cheap or sounds bad but this is usually an area that companies cheap out on.
Usually analog connection to receivers can yeild higher quality sound then using digital to the same receiver. This is dependant on the receiver and the card being used though. This card has higher quality components in comparison to the 0404USB and this card is using very high quality DAC's. I guess you would have to compare them to the units in the receiver, to answer that question.
If you have a high end source with good DAC's try it out....
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GoodBoy
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Well, for a typical 5.1 setup, you are going to have external speakers. External Speakers require amps with more power than you can find on a soundcard. The power for that you would not want on a soundcard, it wouldn't fit (5 channel amps of fair power), if it did would be heavy (heatsinks) and generate alot of heat and dump it in your case (no no no). Plus, for some of the older speakers that do not do the decoding themselves, require 5 seperate inputs. Yuck. Sending it digitally, via a single cable (optical, SPDIF, HDMI) is far better. It only requires decoding along with the amp section of your speaker setup, which is becoming the standard in pc 5.1 speakers, and is the way its been done in home theater setups for a long time.
A digital connection is not always better...
For some digital can actually be a downgrade in comparison to using analog.
Yup. People put way too much faith in black boxes, while having no knowledge of what's really doing the work inside. When I saw the DAC used on this card, it was an instant sale for me. Of course, I don't have a digital receiver. (actually I do. But, it's in a closet collecting dust) So all I really care about is getting good D/A conversion before it hits my receivers inputs.
The two things that have stood out to me so far when using this card, besides tonal accuracy, is it's representation of dynamics and clear stereo imaging. I can't say enough for how much this card has impressed me.