Sony Boss Explains Why No PS4 Shown

Kor

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
2,175
Considering there won't be any backwards compatibility with PS3 discs, existing PSN games or any save files, Sony seems to be doing a fair gamble.

Tried to emulate a Cell on x86 recently? There is a fairly good solid technical reason for a lack of backwards compatibility. :)
 

Ur_Mom

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
20,595
Where was it specifically mentioned there is zero BC? I can't find it anywhere in official announcements. I get that there won't be PS2/PSx as that is kinda obvious. However it has a blu-ray player and it would make no sense that it can't play PS3 games. All I see is mention of their cloud service but no indication that it eliminates the compatibility with PS3 games. I would love to see where this was officially mentioned because that is a deal breaker for me for at least the first year until it gets some exclusives I care about.

They said it wasn't happening yet. Not that it wasn't NOT being done, but it wasn't being done yet.

I'd buy one if it could utilize the PS3 library or it had some awesome exclusives. Take both away, and it's a definite no. Take one away, and my chances are lower. Put both in there, and I'd jump.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
They said it wasn't happening yet. Not that it wasn't NOT being done, but it wasn't being done yet.

I'd buy one if it could utilize the PS3 library or it had some awesome exclusives. Take both away, and it's a definite no. Take one away, and my chances are lower. Put both in there, and I'd jump.

That is where it gets fuzzy for me..are the just talking about the cloud service? Or are the physical discs you own worthless? That is the clarification I need. Physical disc's worthless = no deal for me until the exclusives I want are out. At the very least the controller isn't stupid and they confirmed that you can turn off all the social media shit and everything works fine. So now it is more of a when do I buy..Can use PS3 physical games..launch day. Can't use PS3 games..might be a few years.
 

zamardii

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
3,106
Considering there won't be any backwards compatibility with PS3 discs, existing PSN games or any save files, Sony seems to be doing a fair gamble.

Can anyone think of just 1 justification why the fuck Sony is doing this? Every single time there is a console launch of some kind they screw it up.

PS3:

Overly complicated architecture which prevented quality games coming out for the PS3 for a long time after it's launch.

Way too expensive.

Playstation Move:

The one thing Sony always gets wrong... SUPPORT. Where is the Move support other than the stupid gimmick factor?

PSVITA:

I bit on the Vita the day it released and bought all the good games. Had it for 4 months before I sold it. Shit games. Shit support. Gimicky shit again with the touch pad again.

But the number one thing that Sony always does that pisses me off the most is the way they overhype everything and rarely ever deliver. Where are the majority of games shown off at E3 before the PS3 launched? Why did Sony choose AT&T for wireless Vita support? Why did Sony charge me $600 for a gaming console that never delivered on half the promises made during the E3s before it. Why did Sony remove backwards compatibility to the PS3 after the 2nd or 3rd generation PS3? Sony removed Linux from the PS3. Where are the GOOD Vita games? I could go on and on...

Now the PS4 already is looking like shit. I have been saying for years that consoles are going to just turn into PCs; it's just a matter of when. I don't care about the graphic prowess nor do I give a shit about the massive amount of social networking bullshit they've added into the console. Doesn't it ring odd to anybody as if Sony is trying to take our attention away from the fact that it is already almost March and aside from a bunch of numbers thrown our way, nothing about the PS4 is really that mind blowing. I personally think that over the years our sensibilities have been broken down into numbers. And I think more people are becoming aware of just how shitty games have gotten, and how lacking innovation truely has become.

I feel like for me, this will be the last relevant console generation. More and more people are playing games less in their homes and are on the go. I can't tell you how many young kids I see with iPads and iPhones playing games. I think when the PS4 releases, this will be the first time I won't be a early adopter. I can't tell you how almost every time I have been a early adopter, I have been screwed over by overhyped marketing ploys.

I'm sorry if i ranted too much about this, but I really have become frustrated with the state of gaming. Thank god I grew up in the 90s where I saw the greatest leaps made in consoles history, and I truely believe that those leaps have now shifted from graphics to gameplay. I personally think Sony is going about it wrong with the social networking aspect of the PS4, and not to mention that this will be the first generation where we won't see as much of a graphics jump as we were used to. Remember the first showing of Playstation 3 graphics compared to PS2? Hoooly shit. What about Playstation 2 compared to Playstation 1. Daaaamn! But PS3 to PS4? Meh...

So what could I do better you ask?

1. PS4 be backwards compatible with every Playstation title you have from the PS1 to PS4. And offer a mail-in offer for PS3 and PS2 owners to ship their discs in to get a redeemable download for their old games. If hardware implementation is too expensive and outdated, allow the playing of your classic collection through the backside server side such as a OnLive-type service.

2. Allow trading of games to other PS4 owners for limited amounts of time. Example: Your friend wants to play the new Killzone game that just released a few days ago so you let him "borrow" it by suspending your ability to play it for a certain amount of time that you allow between 1 and 15 days. Borrowed games will not be allowed to save progress in-game so that encourages the person borrowing to purchase the game.

3. All saves/trophies from your PS1, 2, 3, and 4 games will be stored online under your Playstation Network ID. Increased storage for Playstation Plus subscribers would allow online storage of your gameplay videos to be accessed by friends.

4. Games in your collection (non-physical) will have a certain digital trade-in value which you can spend towards anything in the Playstation Store. Once you agree to trade-in a game, it becomes unplayable to you and the license is transferred to Sony and the resale of the title will be handled by Sony with a certain amount going towards the developers for every re-sale. This will cut down on copyright infringement and pirating.

5. All Playstation 4s will have at least 500GB hard drives to store the games. Mostly because of the Blu-Ray format. And today's increased storage needs. Also offer online storage options as well for monthly fees.

6. Playstation 4 will be compatible with all Playstation 3 controllers and accessories.

7. Offer reduced priced Playstation 4 consoles for yearly Playstation Plus subscribers with minimal time for subscription being 2 years.

Those are just some of the things I could think of, but I am not getting my hopes up about this until I see some decent games this time. I feel like we have enough amazing PC games out and coming out to keep myself bust without worrying about the next best consoles for once.
 

Jaerb4

Gawd
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
914
Can anyone think of just 1 justification why the fuck Sony is doing this? Every single time there is a console launch of some kind they screw it up.

PS3:

Overly complicated architecture which prevented quality games coming out for the PS3 for a long time after it's launch.

Way too expensive.

Playstation Move:

The one thing Sony always gets wrong... SUPPORT. Where is the Move support other than the stupid gimmick factor?

PSVITA:

I bit on the Vita the day it released and bought all the good games. Had it for 4 months before I sold it. Shit games. Shit support. Gimicky shit again with the touch pad again.

But the number one thing that Sony always does that pisses me off the most is the way they overhype everything and rarely ever deliver. Where are the majority of games shown off at E3 before the PS3 launched? Why did Sony choose AT&T for wireless Vita support? Why did Sony charge me $600 for a gaming console that never delivered on half the promises made during the E3s before it. Why did Sony remove backwards compatibility to the PS3 after the 2nd or 3rd generation PS3? Sony removed Linux from the PS3. Where are the GOOD Vita games? I could go on and on...

Now the PS4 already is looking like shit. I have been saying for years that consoles are going to just turn into PCs; it's just a matter of when. I don't care about the graphic prowess nor do I give a shit about the massive amount of social networking bullshit they've added into the console. Doesn't it ring odd to anybody as if Sony is trying to take our attention away from the fact that it is already almost March and aside from a bunch of numbers thrown our way, nothing about the PS4 is really that mind blowing. I personally think that over the years our sensibilities have been broken down into numbers. And I think more people are becoming aware of just how shitty games have gotten, and how lacking innovation truely has become.

I feel like for me, this will be the last relevant console generation. More and more people are playing games less in their homes and are on the go. I can't tell you how many young kids I see with iPads and iPhones playing games. I think when the PS4 releases, this will be the first time I won't be a early adopter. I can't tell you how almost every time I have been a early adopter, I have been screwed over by overhyped marketing ploys.

I'm sorry if i ranted too much about this, but I really have become frustrated with the state of gaming. Thank god I grew up in the 90s where I saw the greatest leaps made in consoles history, and I truely believe that those leaps have now shifted from graphics to gameplay. I personally think Sony is going about it wrong with the social networking aspect of the PS4, and not to mention that this will be the first generation where we won't see as much of a graphics jump as we were used to. Remember the first showing of Playstation 3 graphics compared to PS2? Hoooly shit. What about Playstation 2 compared to Playstation 1. Daaaamn! But PS3 to PS4? Meh...

So what could I do better you ask?

1. PS4 be backwards compatible with every Playstation title you have from the PS1 to PS4. And offer a mail-in offer for PS3 and PS2 owners to ship their discs in to get a redeemable download for their old games. If hardware implementation is too expensive and outdated, allow the playing of your classic collection through the backside server side such as a OnLive-type service.

2. Allow trading of games to other PS4 owners for limited amounts of time. Example: Your friend wants to play the new Killzone game that just released a few days ago so you let him "borrow" it by suspending your ability to play it for a certain amount of time that you allow between 1 and 15 days. Borrowed games will not be allowed to save progress in-game so that encourages the person borrowing to purchase the game.

3. All saves/trophies from your PS1, 2, 3, and 4 games will be stored online under your Playstation Network ID. Increased storage for Playstation Plus subscribers would allow online storage of your gameplay videos to be accessed by friends.

4. Games in your collection (non-physical) will have a certain digital trade-in value which you can spend towards anything in the Playstation Store. Once you agree to trade-in a game, it becomes unplayable to you and the license is transferred to Sony and the resale of the title will be handled by Sony with a certain amount going towards the developers for every re-sale. This will cut down on copyright infringement and pirating.

5. All Playstation 4s will have at least 500GB hard drives to store the games. Mostly because of the Blu-Ray format. And today's increased storage needs. Also offer online storage options as well for monthly fees.

6. Playstation 4 will be compatible with all Playstation 3 controllers and accessories.

7. Offer reduced priced Playstation 4 consoles for yearly Playstation Plus subscribers with minimal time for subscription being 2 years.

Those are just some of the things I could think of, but I am not getting my hopes up about this until I see some decent games this time. I feel like we have enough amazing PC games out and coming out to keep myself bust without worrying about the next best consoles for once.
How much more would you like to pay for these features on a console they're already taking a loss on.

The truth of the matter is the people who NEED (not desire, but for whom it is required for a purchase) backwards compatibility is inconsequentially small, just like the people who need to own a game in order to buy it and refuse to use Steam.

Adding these things will drive up costs and provide benefit to a very minor customer segment.
 

Jaerb4

Gawd
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
914
Everything you mentioned sounds nice, but it adds marginal value to the vast, vast majority of users, and is unlikely to affect purchasing decisions as much as the things they have touched on.

You're over-engineering for a very small market, and in doing so increasing costs on everyone else.
 

Runningflame570

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
493
They tried really hard to keep people waiting for the ps3 when the xbox beat it by a year, that didn't work. If they are trying to get people to wait and not buy wii u's, this is another horrible attempt.

They don't need to do that, people aren't buying Wii Us to begin with, although were I considering it the kind of featureset this thing will supposedly have would stop me in a heartbeat.

Somehow they managed to make the presentation underwhelming-mainly due to the lack of much in the way of interesting new games-but looking at their body of work you have to believe that Sony's 1st parties will make some very nice titles for the system.

Barring a couple of remaining concerns (still free online play? region free games?) the features they've brought to the table are great with or without the social network aspects. Instant suspend/resume of games, instant startup for downloadable games, background downloads/firmware updates, controllers charge while console is off, speaker in controller, headset in every system, remote play, device integration, etc.

Not to mention that this thing has 8GB of GDDR5 which should mean that RAM (quantity and bandwidth) shouldn't ever be an issue for developers, a fact which alone should dismiss those calling it a "low end gaming pc". As usual it would seem the only way they can fail is by shooting themselves in the foot-failing to advertise it sufficiently/well, pricing it too high, not supporting it with enough games, or arbitrarily limiting its capabilities. They're capable of all of them, but I'm pretty sure they've learned from the PS3's early days.
 

haz_mat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
326
They're finally making the next console a low end gaming PC because consoles were always just low-end gaming PCs. They were just veiled behind a funky programming architecture due to economic reasons. Now they can use the long-mature libraries and compilers developed for x86 without having to re-learn the wheel every new generation.

No backwards compatibility sucks, but if you wanted that you should have gone PC all along. And the cool thing, eventually the PCs and next-next gen consoles will be powerful enough to emulate every console architecture of the past, and the unified gaming platform will finally be achieved. muhahaha!

In all seriousness though, even with the console guys cookin up the best DRM to date, the fact that the underlying hardware is the same as our PCs will make it a lot easier to reverse engineer and eventually run a PS4 virtual machine on a PC. Fun times!
 

Emission

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
4,420
Relevant?

542629_538160189557106_1350672581_n_zpsbfeb6795.jpg
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
They're finally making the next console a low end gaming PC because consoles were always just low-end gaming PCs. They were just veiled behind a funky programming architecture due to economic reasons. Now they can use the long-mature libraries and compilers developed for x86 without having to re-learn the wheel every new generation.

No backwards compatibility sucks, but if you wanted that you should have gone PC all along. And the cool thing, eventually the PCs and next-next gen consoles will be powerful enough to emulate every console architecture of the past, and the unified gaming platform will finally be achieved. muhahaha!

In all seriousness though, even with the console guys cookin up the best DRM to date, the fact that the underlying hardware is the same as our PCs will make it a lot easier to reverse engineer and eventually run a PS4 virtual machine on a PC. Fun times!

The specs are basically a mid-range gaming PC, which is perfectly fine for consoles. A Steambox would be no different, other than interface and utility.

Today's mid range gaming PC is actually kinda badass. I'm not fully up to date and I can run 97% of PC games maxed.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,698
The Xbox was a PowerPC system not x86.
The original xbox was and the PowerPC is intentionally not far removed from the x86 so that porting code is not that difficult even if you're machine coding. Coding C and the differences virtually disappear. As well the xbox 360 runs DirectX just like the PC which is probably more critical for an easy port than the exact machine language instruction set.
 

Cali3350

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
4,701
The original xbox was and the PowerPC is intentionally not far removed from the x86 so that porting code is not that difficult even if you're machine coding. Coding C and the differences virtually disappear. As well the xbox 360 runs DirectX just like the PC which is probably more critical for an easy port than the exact machine language instruction set.

Wouldn't the compiler completely take care of the coding issue? Might be some optimization changes, but a good compiler would take care of that too.
 

eon

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
2,218
Sony loves to overhype the capabilities of their consoles so ofcourse they are going to hold off showing the real deal as long as possible
 

c3141hf

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
2,708
Sony got two hours of my time last night and I didn't even get to see the actual PS4. However, we have the specs so that works for now and there is plenty of time to show more until it launches this holiday. I'm excited for this console and I actually think the move to x86 will be a win for PC gaming as well.

Develop a game for the PS4 and new Xbox, then take that same code and move it over to PC to take advantage of even faster hardware without having to do a complete rewrite or crappy performing port.

More ports is not a good thing. Sure, it may perform better now that PCs and Playstations use the same architecture but they'll just do straight ports without even bothering to make the interface usable with a mouse and keyboard. And that's not even covering the constant dumbing down of games for consoles.
 
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