• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Some Questions About Certifications

J

Jesse B

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,631
I'm going into the final year of my program at school (Computer Systems Technology, diploma program for the first two years of Comp Sci), and I'm just trying to think of ways to make myself as employable as possible. We have a great employment rate at my school, I just want the opportunity to snatch up the good jobs :D

My second year option (similar to a major) is going to be in Telecommunications and Internetworking (which is basically just networking and network protocols with a fancy name). I was thinking of maybe looking at getting some certifications, but I just wasn't sure if they were worth my time or not. I do plan to go back for my 3rd and 4th years for my degree, I just wanted to get some practical experience and save up some money.

So my first question, would it be worth my time getting some certifications for just a couple years of employment, or should I just hold off?

Second, which certifications should I be looking at? I've seen the CompTIA Server+/Security+/Network+, are any of these worth pursuing? Any other suggestions?

Just looking for some suggestions from people in industry.

Thanks,


- Jesse
 
I'd rather see someone who has spent their time building something cool (even if it is just a personal project) than getting certs.

I go through hundreds of resumes and certs do not make me blink twice.

For reference, I'm speaking as someone who builds high performance infrastructure on Wall St. Other companies' hiring strategies may be completely different and give way too much weight to certs.
 
I think Network+ is handy it give you a basic understanding of Networking. Lot of people seem to underestimate Certifications. IMHO most people are full of shit when they say certs count for nothing.

If you have no experience and no certs breaking into the industry is difficult. If you have no experience and some certs it becomes a lot easier, you will bypass a lot of shity "IT" jobs and have much easier time breaking into a good IT position. If you don't have certs at least get the proper training for the product you wish to work with.

As to insaneirish.. How do you fucking expect to build cool if you don't have a job or have no access to hardware and software. Also how are you going to prove that you did that cool project. The only exception is Programming.
 
There are a couple different ways certifications are relevant. The first is the importance most companies place on them. The larger the organization, the more likely the HR drones are going to require a cert or a degree ( or both ) before handing off the resume to the relevant depts.

The reputation of the cert is interesting too. A+ and Network+ don't hold a whole lot of interest, but something like the CCIE carrie weight ( as does the RHCE, damn it ;) ).
 
Wrench00 said:
I think Network+ is handy it give you a basic understanding of Networking. Lot of people seem to underestimate Certifications. IMHO most people are full of shit when they say certs count for nothing.

If you have no experience and no certs breaking into the industry is difficult. If you have no experience and some certs it becomes a lot easier, you will bypass a lot of shity "IT" jobs and have much easier time breaking into a good IT position. If you don't have certs at least get the proper training for the product you wish to work with.

As to insaneirish.. How do you fucking expect to build cool if you don't have a job or have no access to hardware and software. Also how are you going to prove that you did that cool project. The only exception is Programming.
Click to expand...

I should clarify that I am very much on the side of software development as far as my education goes, but am not picky as to what my employment is. Not sure if this would change your response or not, but I can't see it making a difference. I think personal projects are important to have just to prove that you're capable of what you say you are.

XOR != OR said:
There are a couple different ways certifications are relevant. The first is the importance most companies place on them. The larger the organization, the more likely the HR drones are going to require a cert or a degree ( or both ) before handing off the resume to the relevant depts.

The reputation of the cert is interesting too. A+ and Network+ don't hold a whole lot of interest, but something like the CCIE carrie weight ( as does the RHCE, damn it ;) ).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

The way I look at it (which may or may not be accurate), is by having certs on your resume, it at least shows you have a keen interest and are willing to go out of your way to improve yourself.

Thanks again everyone.
 
I actually look for MS certs since lots of wannabe's think they can configure a Server and end up fucking it up even more. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around how some one fucks upa SBS 2011 or 2008 server.
 
Excuse my noobish-ness, but I'm just trying to get this process figured out.

Say I want to go for a CCIE or Security+/Network+ (just as examples). How do I go about doing this? Is it just as simple as buying a book, studying my ass off, and taking an exam? Or is there more to it? Are the exams able to be taken online or do they have to be done in certain locations?

Thanks everyone.
 
Wrench00 said:
As to insaneirish.. How do you fucking expect to build cool if you don't have a job or have no access to hardware and software. Also how are you going to prove that you did that cool project. The only exception is Programming.
Click to expand...

Not sure the profanity is necessary, but anyway... more than ever before, there are ways to learn things for almost no money. If you want to learn about operating systems, you can virtualize to your heart's content without buying anything. If you want to learn about networking, there is GNS, and IOU, and things like Quagga where you can learn for free. If you want to play around with cutting edge network stuff like OpenFlow, you can play with things like Floodlight, mininet, and Open vSwitch.

If you spend time and work through these things, your "proof" that you did them is that you can talk about them in a coherent manner and with excitement. I have made countless CCIEs wish they never even showed up for an interview, because they realize about 5 minutes in that I completely see through their facade and they can't go off script.

Certs don't bypass the need to use real hardware (or emulated) and software. If you get a cert just from reading a book, you've simply proven the worthlessness of certs. The downside of certs is that they encourage this behavior and in-the-box thinking, rather than curiosity based learning and discovery.
 
Jesse B said:
Excuse my noobish-ness, but I'm just trying to get this process figured out.

Say I want to go for a CCIE or Security+/Network+ (just as examples). How do I go about doing this? Is it just as simple as buying a book, studying my ass off, and taking an exam? Or is there more to it? Are the exams able to be taken online or do they have to be done in certain locations?

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...
The lighter certs can be studied for, without any practical experience. Hell, that's how I did my A+ way back when. But stuff like the CCIE and RHCE require hands on knowledge. The CCIE is especially insane. There's a written and lab, and the lab is no joke.

RHCE was actually fun, but I had been working in Redhat for almost a decade at the point I took the test, so I wasn't stressing about it.
 
I would recommend browsing the certification websites for what you are interested in to learn about the individual certifications, especially which ones are entry level and which ones are higher level. Go for which certs validate your experience and are in fields you are interested in. They are not magical job getting pieces of paper they just back up your know how and experience.

Don't worry too much about CCIE and things like that, that will be years down the line. Just look at what's applicable for you right now.

You're in college right now, you know the number one thing you should be doing? Networking! Network with your classmates and your professors, get to know everyone, that's how you build business connections you can use later when one of your colleagues or former professors knows of someone that's hiring. Get a part-time job in the school computer lab, it's not hard and it will at least build some experience for you, both technical and people skills.
 
I recommend getting some of the lower certs if only to use them as prep for higher certs. It also helps greatly when you "get that job" and actually know what you are doing.

Here's the path that leads to a jack of all trades.

A+, N+, CCNA, MCITP, Security +, VCP, Hyper-V

The most heavily weighted out of the above is probably CCNA, VMware and Hyper-V.
 
insaneirish said:
Not sure the profanity is necessary, but anyway... more than ever before, there are ways to learn things for almost no money. If you want to learn about operating systems, you can virtualize to your heart's content without buying anything. If you want to learn about networking, there is GNS, and IOU, and things like Quagga where you can learn for free. If you want to play around with cutting edge network stuff like OpenFlow, you can play with things like Floodlight, mininet, and Open vSwitch.

If you spend time and work through these things, your "proof" that you did them is that you can talk about them in a coherent manner and with excitement. I have made countless CCIEs wish they never even showed up for an interview, because they realize about 5 minutes in that I completely see through their facade and they can't go off script.

Certs don't bypass the need to use real hardware (or emulated) and software. If you get a cert just from reading a book, you've simply proven the worthlessness of certs. The downside of certs is that they encourage this behavior and in-the-box thinking, rather than curiosity based learning and discovery.
Click to expand...

I apologize for my profantiy I had a really trying week.

Having certifications and training is best, Knowing the products that you will work on will allow you to know the best way to implement solutions. If you know every single aspect of a products will allow you to think outside the box because you will know the capabilities of the solution you need to implement. If your thinking outside the box I hope your not refering to experimentation in live systems this is a far to common of an occurance when I am hired to fix issues.

I don't posses CCNA and in my opinion its one of the most over rated certs. Why well if you don't work for a large company most likely you will not come accross a Cisco product and in SMB you can forget it.
You also have some other very high end products that equally as good or better then cisco. IE HP, Juniper, Brocade heck even some Dell stuff is nice.
This is why i think N+ is a good general cert.

Also don't underestimate the Power of a MS certificate especially the High End ones like
MCITP Enterprise Administrator, Exchange, Sharepoint.

Oh and Vmware is very nice to have.
 
Wrench00 said:
Also don't underestimate the Power of a MS certificate especially the High End ones like
MCITP Enterprise Administrator, Exchange, Sharepoint.
Click to expand...
Having taken my fair share of MS certs, I can tell you my opinion is that they are little more than product feature advertisements along with extreme reading comprehension tests.

I worked with 2008 extensively in the year leading up to my tests, and without the books to help I would have failed given the type and nature of the questions asked. Practical knowledge, no matter how extensive, isn't enough to pass these tests.
 
At this point certs aren't going to help you out much. They are good for getting your resume past the HR monkeys, but without experience they won't help much. The comptia certs are entry level certs that are basically vocabulary tests. If you are just looking for certs to make your resume look better searching for entry level jobs, that is your best bet. They are cheap/easy, but they now expire after 3 years (not that it matters, they are entry level certs).

Other than that you bascially need to find a job and start racking up the experience. Experience > certs always.

Also, I didn't see what kind of degree that school is giving you. If it's not at least a B.S. that could hurt you. Most of the IT jobs I was looking at listed a B.S. as one of the basic requirements.
 
XOR != OR said:
Having taken my fair share of MS certs, I can tell you my opinion is that they are little more than product feature advertisements along with extreme reading comprehension tests.

I worked with 2008 extensively in the year leading up to my tests, and without the books to help I would have failed given the type and nature of the questions asked. Practical knowledge, no matter how extensive, isn't enough to pass these tests.
Click to expand...

This is why I mentioned Training. Yes any one can buy a brain dump and pass a cert test.

With out training whether its class or virtual its a great help. But having your own enviornment to test is a huge boon. Experience can't be beat usually, but if you can't find a job how will you get experience? Also I can't stress that having experience under a admin thats knows what they are doing is also good. I had plenty of guys tell me I was trained/worked with an MS guru and their work was terrible because their source was an old time rthat was nt 4.0 certified MCSE and they tried to implement those practices to Active Directory. It turned out to be a disaster. Also lots of Admins and techs don't keep their education progressive. Its a non stop thing. Trying to use Win2k3 solutions don't work so well with 2k8r2. Or Exchange 2003 applied to 2007 or 2010 you will have problems.
 
adam30k said:
You're in college right now, you know the number one thing you should be doing? Networking! Network with your classmates and your professors, get to know everyone, that's how you build business connections you can use later when one of your colleagues or former professors knows of someone that's hiring. Get a part-time job in the school computer lab, it's not hard and it will at least build some experience for you, both technical and people skills.
Click to expand...

I have done quite a bit of networking so far. I have a quite close relationship with a few of my instructors, and am also quite close with many of my classmates. This was one of the few pieces of valuable information I was told of this back in high school, and actually listened to that advice.

Biznatch said:
Also, I didn't see what kind of degree that school is giving you. If it's not at least a B.S. that could hurt you. Most of the IT jobs I was looking at listed a B.S. as one of the basic requirements.
Click to expand...

I receive a Diploma of Technology at the school I am currently attending. I know that the majority of job listings require a BSc, but the school I attend is quite renowned in local industry, and the vast majority of graduates gain employment quite soon following graduation. Also in the option I am personally taking, the head instructor is very well known, and nearly every graduate has a job lined up before even writing exams.

Another larger University in my area has a transfer program with the school I am attending, so my plan at this point (unless I land an absolutely stellar job) was to work for a couple years, get some practical experience and save up some money, then go back for another two years to obtain my BSc.

That's the plan anyways :D
 
Alright, looking into getting my Network+ just to have something additional to put on my resume. Just a couple more questions here (I've found a bunch of, in my mind, conflicting information).

1.) I am able to just study on my own and take the exam, correct? I don't need to take a course? I assume I have to pay for the exam, but I can't be taking night-classes with my full course load.

2.) Any suggested studying material? The CompTIA website lists about 5 books, but I've also heard of people talking about video series and what not. I'd probably prefer a book just to keep costs down, but I'm open to whatever would be my best bet.

Thanks,


- Jesse
 
Jesse B said:
Alright, looking into getting my Network+ just to have something additional to put on my resume. Just a couple more questions here (I've found a bunch of, in my mind, conflicting information).

1.) I am able to just study on my own and take the exam, correct? I don't need to take a course? I assume I have to pay for the exam, but I can't be taking night-classes with my full course load.

2.) Any suggested studying material? The CompTIA website lists about 5 books, but I've also heard of people talking about video series and what not. I'd probably prefer a book just to keep costs down, but I'm open to whatever would be my best bet.

Thanks,


- Jesse
Click to expand...

Techexams.net

If you haven't visited there, I suggest ya do. Its a great resource, with a lot more in depth on this subject.

With that said, I hold the ones I do, and I'm glad I have them. But my experience and knowledge and ability to think and react to situations quickly, trumps my certs.

If I was w/o that, my certs would do the same thing they did for me when I got them. Foot in the door.

My skills keep me employed. I hold no degree, I make average money, I'm not rich, but I haven't starved recently either. If you want to move up, a degree is necessary. You have that, now you need the experience. Which means you start at the bottom and work up.

Good luck, PM me if you need any help with Network+ or other cert things, I'm working on my Win 7 ones after failing it once (I got a cheap deal on a voucher and went unprepared)

As for your questions.

1.) Self Study is fine, Network+ is all about terminology.

2.) Professor Messer, and I used a Sybase study guide for Network+ I think I passed it first time with a 825 or something like that.

Its not a Cisco test, its very basic, but a great building block.
 
Wrench00 said:
I apologize for my profantiy I had a really trying week.

Having certifications and training is best, Knowing the products that you will work on will allow you to know the best way to implement solutions. If you know every single aspect of a products will allow you to think outside the box because you will know the capabilities of the solution you need to implement. If your thinking outside the box I hope your not refering to experimentation in live systems this is a far to common of an occurance when I am hired to fix issues.

I don't posses CCNA and in my opinion its one of the most over rated certs. Why well if you don't work for a large company most likely you will not come accross a Cisco product and in SMB you can forget it.
You also have some other very high end products that equally as good or better then cisco. IE HP, Juniper, Brocade heck even some Dell stuff is nice.
This is why i think N+ is a good general cert.

Also don't underestimate the Power of a MS certificate especially the High End ones like
MCITP Enterprise Administrator, Exchange, Sharepoint.

Oh and Vmware is very nice to have.
Click to expand...

You get the certs that you need due to their relevance. CCNA is only required/relevant for jobs where you are touching internal infrastructure and/or transport.

The only certs that I know of that have are a 'broad requirement' are Net+/Sec+ due to the DoD 8570 requirements. Everyone knows just how worthless the CompTIA certs are now, but due to the 8570 requirement they are actually still valuable. Further, I can't recall applying much of what is covered with Net+/Sec+ on my day to day job. It's not like most people who hold these certs even had to study to pass them. If you've been working on computers your whole life, and have a few years of real world experiance you should be able to get these certs without much trouble. Meanwhile, passing one of the CCNA flavours requires real world experiance, and time spent studying. Due to this, I can apply the knowledge learned while studying for the CCNA to a real world task in a job requiring it.

But going back to the first point, you wouldn't bother much with a CCNA as a sysadmin. Nor would I bother with a redhat cert as a networks/transport engineer. They aren't 'needed'. Of course, if you have the free time every cert helps for sure. At least where I work, i'm not stuck to configing Juniper/Cisco/Sycamore every day. I can go do sysadmin stuff another day if the help is needed.

My advice to the OP is to find a job that will get you a security clearance. With a college degree, a couple of decent certs, and security clearance - You are on your way to making good money once you have 8+ years of work experiance. I highly advocate going to open houses where DoD contractors for IT jobs hang out. This will allow you to get your foot in the door, and get the clearance/work experiance.
 
Last edited:
insaneirish said:
I have made countless CCIEs wish they never even showed up for an interview, because they realize about 5 minutes in that I completely see through their facade and they can't go off script.
Click to expand...

Countless CCIEs? Well... lol. I think you might be confusing CCNA with CCIE, which might say a lot about you. People who are CCIE certified are rare, Cisco says 3% of Cisco certified people have a CCIE which is also 1% of all network professionals. The CBT Nuggets guy even said it was the "PhD" of Cisco certs. I also doubt you will find a CCIE with little or none real world experience. I mean come on, the lab exam is 8 hours long and costs $1500 to take not mention the cost of an airplane ticket and hotel.

For the OP, the general path for Cisco certs is: CCENT -> CCNA -> CCNP -> CCIE, but there are a ton of other side certs and focus certs beginning with CCNA. Someone here said Cisco certs aren't necessary if you aren't working with Cisco products. Well that is partially true but I feel these certs provide a lot of network fundamentals if you take out the Cisco proprietary stuff, which isn't a whole lot to be honest. After all, everyone goes by the OSI model.

If you are a student, I recommend trying to land an internship to build experience if you can. The certs can come after, and many times, companies will pay for your training and exams if they see you being with them for a long time. While you are still young, definitely push for that 4 year degree, they help a lot when you want to work for a bigger company as those jobs tend to be more stable. While some here say experience trumps degrees, it doesn't hurt to have both! I live in Silicon Valley and its next to impossible to land a job without a 4-year degree because its so competitive and many of these companies tend to emphasize academics. SV isn't a good place for IT though, since every engineer has little bit of IT knowledge in them.
 
I only know two CCIE's. One is working for Cisco, and the other also obviously knows his shit.

I highly doubt you've made 'countless CCIEs' dread your interview. You can't pass the CCIE exam through study alone. It requires years of real-world experiance.
 
Professor Messer is great especially since his streaming videos are free. Total Seminars is good too if you want a traditional book to read. Total Seminars also has the best price on vouchers.

stiltner said:
Techexams.net

If you haven't visited there, I suggest ya do. Its a great resource, with a lot more in depth on this subject.

With that said, I hold the ones I do, and I'm glad I have them. But my experience and knowledge and ability to think and react to situations quickly, trumps my certs.

If I was w/o that, my certs would do the same thing they did for me when I got them. Foot in the door.

My skills keep me employed. I hold no degree, I make average money, I'm not rich, but I haven't starved recently either. If you want to move up, a degree is necessary. You have that, now you need the experience. Which means you start at the bottom and work up.

Good luck, PM me if you need any help with Network+ or other cert things, I'm working on my Win 7 ones after failing it once (I got a cheap deal on a voucher and went unprepared)

As for your questions.

1.) Self Study is fine, Network+ is all about terminology.

2.) Professor Messer, and I used a Sybase study guide for Network+ I think I passed it first time with a 825 or something like that.

Its not a Cisco test, its very basic, but a great building block.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thanks all. Gonna go through the Messer videos and see how I stand after that. Will be a good prep for this upcoming semester as a bonus!
 
http://www.proprofs.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Comptia_Network+_Study_Guide

They have a similar one for Sec+.

I took a quick gander at these the day before each one of my Net+/Sec+ tests and passed the tests with ample breathing room. It is honestly the best 'study guide' i've found because it only covers the topics and information that will be on the test. It's not some massive book with irrelevant information. (Not saying the information isn't useful, but it wasn't stuff on the test.)
 
Comptia tells you how the exam is weighted and they recommend study materials. Invest your time into the areas you know the least with the most weight.

I would not stray to far from what Comptia recommend's for study material. All the study guide books Comptia recommends will have practice exams and cue cards in em. You can buy the books with extra exams and cards but I never did.

Do the exams, know the cards. All the questions on the exam will be very similar to what you will see on the exam in the books and the cards. I got a load of Comptia certs this way.

Challenge the exams, don't bother with courses.

If you get Net+ then you can join the Apple Consultants Network and pick up work on the side if the job hunting goes crappy.
 
Last edited:
Now now, play nice kiddies. :D

Finished the first 2 sections of the Professor Messer videos so far, working on Section 3 currently. Knew a lot of it already, but learned quite a bit as well. Need to spend some time working on protocols and acronyms. TechExams and CompTIA both have sample exams, so after I finish the videos I'll take those and see where I stand.
 
Nice.. one of the things I like about studying is it rounds out my education I feel. Especially with Microsoft you learn some good best practice material.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top