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some fermi performance numbers

DualOwn said:
true, dx11 is over and dx12 is already here, yawn.

and lol if you actually believe those numbers from that asian site unless you believe that they went in the future with a time machine and brought back the final drivers that dont even exist right now.
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lol.

Since when has a new card supporting a new dx version ever provided good performance when the effects are properly used.

By the time dx11 matters gtx480 will be forgotten as gtx580/6870 will be out, so you can be happy that fermis performance wont be remembered as ground breaking (especially since in non tesselation intense games its not overly special just what you would expect from a next gen card that should have been here 6months ago) sure it might path the way for the future cards from nvidia to be something special which will probably happen.

But the fact of the matter is right here right now what it does better doesn't matter and by the time it does matter something better will be out.
 
e-geek said:
lol.

Since when has a new card supporting a new dx version ever provided good performance when the effects are properly used.

By the time dx11 matters gtx480 will be forgotten as gtx580/6870 will be out, so you can be happy that fermis performance wont be remembered as ground breaking (especially since in non tesselation intense games
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Very true, it's usually the case that when a new DX is launched the first cards to support the new features often dont have enough rendering to do it at good frame rates.

It does seem like Fermi will be better at tesselation but we've yet to see how it handles non-synthetic benchmarks which also stress the shader units and tesselation at the same time.

its not overly special just what you would expect from a next gen card that should have been here 6months ago)
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Meh...graphics power is doubling approximately every 18-24 months, so for a 6 month gap i'd expect 25-33% perofrmance increase in that time, to actually be impressed i'd need to see more.

It will be interesting to see what supply/demand does to the prices, right now a lot of the ATI cards are overpriced due to lack of supply, ATI have set what I think is pretty reasonable RRP for the cards it's just stores are price gouging.

If Nvidia suffer similar supply issues, very possible considering such terrible yield rates, then we'll simply see the same thing, a tiny supply and what few cards trickle through will be massively over priced (by stores), on top of what could be a very high wholesale price to begin with.
 
Anyone who bought a launch 8800 GTX had a good three year DX10 run with it. I'd wager the same will hold true for launch 5870 owners with DX11.

High end pc gaming isn't what it used to be.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Meh...graphics power is doubling approximately every 18-24 months, so for a 6 month gap i'd expect 25-33% perofrmance increase in that time, to actually be impressed i'd need to see more.
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That's a complete falicy. Graphics power doubling is a discrete function tied directly to die shrinks. As there is not a die shrink in those 6 months don't expect any preformance that shouldn't have been there 6 months ago. It's not like if they launch it at the same price as a 5870 and it out preforms it by 5% you're going to say "oh well it's only 5% faster than the competition but I'm going to buy the slower card because it is 6 months old and because of some weird moore's law thing that makes it the better choice". While you should expect to see graphics preformance to increase with time, it is a very discrete event and at the time of purchase irrelovent compared to feature set and preformance.

PrincessFrosty said:
It will be interesting to see what supply/demand does to the prices, right now a lot of the ATI cards are overpriced due to lack of supply, ATI have set what I think is pretty reasonable RRP for the cards it's just stores are price gouging.

If Nvidia suffer similar supply issues, very possible considering such terrible yield rates, then we'll simply see the same thing, a tiny supply and what few cards trickle through will be massively over priced (by stores), on top of what could be a very high wholesale price to begin with.
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Who knows what is going to happen on price with Nvidia cards. Nobody knows for sure how many their are, what they yields are like, the gross or net on a kit, or where Nvidia will set the MSRP. With factors so far and wide like that Nvidia could set the price anywhere from 350 to 750$ Both extremes being highly unlikely.
 
vengence said:
That's a complete falicy. Graphics power doubling is a discrete function tied directly to die shrinks. As there is not a die shrink in those 6 months don't expect any preformance that shouldn't have been there 6 months ago. It's not like if they launch it at the same price as a 5870 and it out preforms it by 5% you're going to say "oh well it's only 5% faster than the competition but I'm going to buy the slower card because it is 6 months old and because of some weird moore's law thing that makes it the better choice". While you should expect to see graphics preformance to increase with time, it is a very discrete event and at the time of purchase irrelovent compared to feature set and preformance.
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I don't think it's tied into die shrinking as much as you say it is. Proof? 3870->4870 , 9800GTX->GTX280, both of those doubled in raw flops didn't they?
 
Romir said:
Anyone who bought a launch 8800 GTX had a good three year DX10 run with it.
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No this is not true.

Vista killed dx10 or microsoft killed dx10 with the requirement of vista.

Have we really seen a game built for dx10 from the ground up that is a killer app that 8800gtx dominates ? no.

If it can't handle crysis in dx9 then no way could it have handled a specialised dx10 game, unfortunately there were none really, none that would make people stand up and look in the time frame of it's release.

Edit: This is why gtx480 will be considered a failure even though it's performance will be pretty good, it will be remembered for all the hype of 70% faster than 5870 and it prob will be 20% +/- at best and was so late and will be expensive most likely. The killer dx11 app won't be released within the timeframe of gtx480, not one that makes people buy it over 5870 because it is otherwise unplayable, gtx5xx/6xxx will be out by then and that is why it will be remembered as a failure.
 
Romir said:
Anyone who bought a launch 8800 GTX had a good three year DX10 run with it.
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While I did have close to a good 3 year run with a 8800gts, I never got to use it for dx10 as I was running XP. By the time I got Win7 I had upgraded the video card.
 
vengence said:
That's a complete falicy. Graphics power doubling is a discrete function tied directly to die shrinks. As there is not a die shrink in those 6 months don't expect any preformance that shouldn't have been there 6 months ago.
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So nvidia are same power just 6 months late, why should anyone care about them then?

We see plenty of extra power squeezed out of the same sized process as more cards are made, I would bet a months wages that ATI will respond with a faster card which is based on the same die size and perfoms significantly better than their previous cards (single GPU at least)
 
e-geek said:
No this is not true.

Vista killed dx10 or microsoft killed dx10 with the requirement of vista.

Have we really seen a game built for dx10 from the ground up that is a killer app that 8800gtx dominates ? no.

If it can't handle crysis in dx9 then no way could it have handled a specialised dx10 game, unfortunately there were none really, none that would make people stand up and look in the time frame of it's release.

Edit: This is why gtx480 will be considered a failure even though it's performance will be pretty good, it will be remembered for all the hype of 70% faster than 5870 and it prob will be 20% +/- at best and was so late and will be expensive most likely. The killer dx11 app won't be released within the timeframe of gtx480, not one that makes people buy it over 5870 because it is otherwise unplayable, gtx5xx/6xxx will be out by then and that is why it will be remembered as a failure.
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Who hyped it to be 70% faster than the 5870?
 
OGAWD THIS CANT B TRU! NVIDIA CUDA NEVER FAIL LIKE THIS! I PREDICT WITH DRIVER IMPORVMENT GTX 480 WILL BE 39048290384 times faster THAN 5870 BECUZ OF MEMOYR BUS!!!!

I WILL BUY GTX 480 ANYWYAYS BECUAS NVIDIA WILL BE BETTER, I PARY TO NVIDIA GOD.

Really, stop crying you butthurt NVIDIA fanboys. The official graph from NVIDIA shows the 5870 and the GTX 480 on par unless tessellation is going on. Look at your steam and games folder, tell me how many games have tessellation? Really, we're all enthusiasts. By the time DX11 titles are mainstream and people are playing games with tessellation your GTX 480 and 58xx AMDs are going to be sold or in your closet collecting dust.

How many of you guys bought 8800GTS (320/640mb) for DX10 and had a new card before you were playing DX10 games? I know I sure did.

GTX 400 series is a giant flop. It's a remake of the 2900 series, just the colors are different. All this idiotic talk of tessellation performance is just marketing bs. How about you guys show us some Bad Company 2 or L4D2 benches?
 
PrincessFrosty said:
So nvidia are same power just 6 months late, why should anyone care about them then?

We see plenty of extra power squeezed out of the same sized process as more cards are made, I would bet a months wages that ATI will respond with a faster card which is based on the same die size and perfoms significantly better than their previous cards (single GPU at least)
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Sure, if they spent 6 months refining what they had they'll get 10% boost like the 4890. No where near your 30% boost from moore's law. Furthermore, Nvidia hasn't spent 6 months refining, it's spent 6 months trying to get it to work in the first place.

As far as anyone caring about the graphics card.... it will, as it always does, depend on how much money it costs. Not how much fan boys project it to cost, but the actual price in stores compared to a 5870.
 
vengence said:
Sure, if they spent 6 months refining what they had they'll get 10% boost like the 4890. No where near your 30% boost from moore's law. Furthermore, Nvidia hasn't spent 6 months refining, it's spent 6 months trying to get it to work in the first place.
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Fortunately for everyone else, what you said simply isn't true. Performance improvements aren't tied to die shrinks like you claim, not at all. Performance is tied to the architecture and transistor count. Die shrinks allow companies to cram more transistors into the same amount of space, which is what actually allows to NVidia and ATI to improves performance. The other alternative is to simply have a bigger die, which is the route Nvidia went with Fermi.

Moore's law isn't about performance, so it is irrelevant.
 
e-geek said:
When it was still gtx380 it was supposedly as fast as 5970 which is what roughly 70% faster than 5870?

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1341598.html

Sure we now know it was bs but that didn't stop the fanbois talking it up 6months ago.
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If you actually believed those slides I have a bridge you need to buy. Guru3D thought they were probably fake, but you forgot to mention that part. The only people hyping Fermi to be that fast are fanbois and without any proof.

If nVidia had actually claimed that Fermi is on the order of 70% faster than a 5870, Hitler would have included that in his rant of 70C idle temp and wheel chair wheels. If you have an actual quote, let's see it. It will be comedy gold if true.
 
KENNYB said:
If you actually believed those slides I have a bridge you need to buy. Guru3D thought they were probably fake, but you forgot to mention that part. The only people hyping Fermi to be that fast are fanbois and without any proof.

If nVidia had actually claimed that Fermi is on the order of 70% faster than a 5870, Hitler would have included that in his rant of 70C idle temp and wheel chair wheels. If you have an actual quote, let's see it. It will be comedy gold if true.
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Did you even read his entire post before shooting him down?

Seriously man, if you want to make fun of a guy at least read his entire post as he didn't claim any of things that you are insulting him for. In fact, he was essentially saying the exact same thing that you did in the last sentence of your first paragraph
 
KENNYB said:
If you actually believed those slides I have a bridge you need to buy. Guru3D thought they were probably fake, but you forgot to mention that part. The only people hyping Fermi to be that fast are fanbois and without any proof.

If nVidia had actually claimed that Fermi is on the order of 70% faster than a 5870, Hitler would have included that in his rant of 70C idle temp and wheel chair wheels. If you have an actual quote, let's see it. It will be comedy gold if true.
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When did i say i believed them? please point it out i am interested to where i actually said i believed any of the bs that has been spun about fermi/gtx480.

I made a reference to how nvidia fanbois claimed 70% faster 6months ago, you obviously thought i was making it up.(6months isnt very long to remember things, maybe lay off the weed?)

You then said where was that claimed and i took 1min to google (apparently the worlds largest and most popular search engine is to difficult for you to use) and linked the first article and now apparently i believe it to all be true hell i probably made the slides and created all the rumours about fermi is that right?, geez stop being so pedantic about it and think for 1s before you make an assumption like that.
 
sdlvx said:
Look at your steam and games folder, tell me how many games have tessellation? Really, we're all enthusiasts. By the time DX11 titles are mainstream and people are playing games with tessellation your GTX 480 and 58xx AMDs are going to be sold or in your closet collecting dust.
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Tessellation is not the only thing that Nvidia has got going for them in DX11 im thinking that directcompute will also be better on a gtx 480 :) .

The thing is about any feature in DX that it doesn't matter how it is called it wont make a game better even if it is supported in hardware on every card. It is all about gameplay more then anything else. However with directcompute we might see in game AI take a boost.


GTX 400 series is a giant flop. It's a remake of the 2900 series, just the colors are different. All this idiotic talk of tessellation performance is just marketing bs. How about you guys show us some Bad Company 2 or L4D2 benches?
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Nvidia can't shut up about their card even if they are beat. That is just Nvidia tho, to many years on the throne, they had a hard time last few years already. On the upside ATI made some very good decisions regarding price of their products , so in a good way we benefit from loudmouth Nvidia :) .

No benchmark in the world can save them now, the game is over when they couldn't deliver 6 months ago and ATI flooded the market with reasonable DX11 hardware.

Waiting for the next OEM cycle. Going to be fun to see how Nvidia will deal with that PR wise because this was rock bottom.
 
edifyingkarma said:
Did you even read his entire post before shooting him down?

Seriously man, if you want to make fun of a guy at least read his entire post as he didn't claim any of things that you are insulting him for. In fact, he was essentially saying the exact same thing that you did in the last sentence of your first paragraph
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Go re-read the first time I quoted him. e-geek complains about the hype and then has to post again that the so called hype came from a bull shit source.

And where did I insult him? I did ask who is hyping Fermi to be 70% faster than the 5870.
 
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e-geek said:
When did i say i believed them? please point it out i am interested to where i actually said i believed any of the bs that has been spun about fermi/gtx480.

I made a reference to how nvidia fanbois claimed 70% faster 6months ago, you obviously thought i was making it up.(6months isnt very long to remember things, maybe lay off the weed?)

You then said where was that claimed and i took 1min to google (apparently the worlds largest and most popular search engine is to difficult for you to use) and linked the first article and now apparently i believe it to all be true hell i probably made the slides and created all the rumours about fermi is that right?, geez stop being so pedantic about it and think for 1s before you make an assumption like that.
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Wow FANBOIS claim that Fermi will be 70% faster than the 5870 and you're complaining about that. No one believes what fanbois claim, but you still quote what fanbois claimed 6 months ago?

e-geek said:
maybe lay off the weed?
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argor, Chinese friends had a good laugh at the translations. Comedy gold.
 
I think most people would accept that Fermi is going to be faster but the simple problem is that it won't be by the massive margin people were expecting for the development time it has taken and the likely price point it will appear at when it does indeed hit the market.

As for ATI they are still in the leading position and that won't change right away due to probably supply issues with Fermi, then of course you've another simple fact that they will of carried on with there own development in the last 6 months.
 
Hulahoops said:
I think most people would accept that Fermi is going to be faster but the simple problem is that it won't be by the massive margin people were expecting for the development time it has taken and the likely price point it will appear at when it does indeed hit the market.

As for ATI they are still in the leading position and that won't change right away due to probably supply issues with Fermi, then of course you've another simple fact that they will of carried on with there own development in the last 6 months.
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most people outside of the fanboy club believe that the nVidia offering will be at best on par with the 5870 and most likely below it.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
So early reports (from nvidia) are putting GTX480 performance to be roughly equal to the 5870 in games. That's kind of unimpressive to say the least.
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Indeed.

To be fair, the key word here in all of this is: Early. :)
 
Hamish Campbell said:
So early reports (from nvidia) are putting GTX480 performance to be roughly equal to the 5870 in games. That's kind of unimpressive to say the least.
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For six months, I'd consider anything less than 20% faster unimpressive. This is more of a screw up in my book.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
most people outside of the fanboy club believe that the nVidia offering will be at best on par with the 5870 and most likely below it.
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I've a 5870 and sit in neither of these so called fanclubs that only silly people like to call others that don't agree with them. The reality is I'll wait for some proper figures that'll appear on the various hardware sites before I make a sound judgement on whether the card goes from something that is looking like a minor disappointment to a major one.
 
I hope those number are for the GTX470.
We need some restored competition, so I can get on with deciding what cards I want for my i7 build. I hope it puts the squeeze on ATI to drop their prices! :D
 
It's easy to sit abck and say "let's wait for some real numbers", but that's not what we do as [H]ardware enthusiasts. It's obvious to me that nVidia is not getting the performance they expected from the architecture. It has nothing to do with yields or clock speeds, they would have had enough samples by now to cherry pick an ATi killer, IF the cards were able to do just that. Plus they would have every desire to do just that, and leak numbers and videos of actual performance, to keep people from pulling the trigger on a Radeon right now.

There has to a major issue with the new architecture and non-tessilized applications. I predict (have predicted) they exchanged one bottle-neck for another. Fermi may do great in future releases that are coded to use it's new "scrambled up" pipeline, but only after the devs get the cards, and only if there are no other glaring issues with Fermi.
 
Hulahoops said:
I've a 5870 and sit in neither of these so called fanclubs that only silly people like to call others that don't agree with them. The reality is I'll wait for some proper figures that'll appear on the various hardware sites before I make a sound judgement on whether the card goes from something that is looking like a minor disappointment to a major one.
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the fact that Nvidia has only released cherry picked benchmarks further strenghtens my belief that it will be at best on par.........if it really did perform amazingly fast as most of fanboys believe, we would have seen a lot of benchmarks by now.........
 
Mr. K6 said:
For six months, I'd consider anything less than 20% faster unimpressive. This is more of a screw up in my book.
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They weren't working on it for six months though. It was all scrambling to get the thing manufactured. In any case yeah expectations have now gone up and so far the numbers don't look promising. I wish there were more leaks comparing GT200 and Fermi as that comparison is far more interesting IMO (in terms of how much they might have missed targets). So far the only one we have is in Far Cry 2 and that came from Nvidia.....
 
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