Software Development setup?

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mikeblas

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2006
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Jun 26, 2004
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I want to setup a larger monitor at work. What's a good rig? All development, editing and writing documents, zero gaming.

A colleague has a Seiki SE39UY04. It's a little too big; the corners disappear for me, but it seems quite nice for text. It's discontinued, too.

I have two older Dell 30-inch displays (U3011, or whatever the model was; they're 2560 x 1600) and I enjoy them. Not enough room for two of them at my daytime office, though.

I guess I'm thinking of something in the 30-35 inch range, with great text resolution. I'll be driving it from my Macbook Pro.

What would ya'll recommend?
 
32 in 4K monitor like this Crossover:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pix...=item4d3e1fb6db:g:5aYAAOSw6dNWTWa7&rmvSB=true

Be aware of the occasional vertical line artifact that lasts for like 1 frame duration. This is seen with all monitors using this panel including benq and acer's. The slightly high input lag of 40 ms won't matter much in your case.

or you can try this samsung un40ju6500:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-UN4...01&rpp_cat_id=106&afepn=5337259887&rmvSB=true

This samsung has true 4:4:4 chroma at 4K 60hz so it will actually show txt even better than the old seiki.

Both these options will cost you around $450 right now. you will need an active DP 1.2 to HDMI2.0 like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Club3D-Displayport-1-2-HDMI-CAC-1070/dp/B0194F1MY4

since there's no HDMI 2.0 in macbook. that is if the macbook has DP. i don't know much about thunderbolt to hdmi 2.0
 
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mikeblas said:
...A colleague has a Seiki SE39UY04. It's a little too big; the corners disappear for me, but it seems quite nice for text. ...
Click to expand...

40" UHD is the best thing around if you appreciate tall screens. A puny 20 degree view angle for a typical VA panel means that the rendered quality on the sides is not as good as at the center. Also if you sit relatively close then the sides are at almost 45 degree angle and it is awkward to watch stuff there even if there were no "tunnel effect". I end up working in the center 4:3 area of the monitor, having a nice background on the sides as a bias lighting.

As for Seiki being discontinued, you would find plenty of better UHD TVs/Monitors today. (Hisense, Samsung, Crossover, etc).
 
Apparently Hisense comes with a new TV lineup this month. Alas with larger screen sizes than the 30-35" that you specified.
The H7C range (from February) will have 43", 50", 55", and 65" 4K screens with HDR processing from $399.99 - $1299.--.
The H8C range (from April) will have 50" and 55" 4K screens with HDR processing at $599.99 and $699.99.

Sources:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1453372353
http://4k.com/news/a-closer-peek-at...hdr-tv-thats-selling-for-less-than-400-11910/
They are not yet showing up that the Hisense USA website though: http://www.hisense-usa.com/alltvs/
 
illustrator said:
Apparently Hisense comes with a new TV lineup this month. Alas with larger screen sizes than the 30-35" that you specified.
The H7C range (from February) will have 43", 50", 55", and 65" 4K screens with HDR processing from $399.99 - $1299.--.
The H8C range (from April) will have 50" and 55" 4K screens with HDR processing at $599.99 and $699.99.
Click to expand...

Need review to see if they re true 4:4:4 4K 60hz or not. Using TV as monitor esp for a lot of txt display, you kinda need good chroma. It looks like for now the only cheap 4:4:4 4K 60hz chroma in town is samsung un40ju6500. we need more true competition.... then maybe will hv these for less than $400..
 
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What does "60Hz" have to do with chroma? I don't get it. One of the reviews Illustrator linked said something similar: "Cons – 30Hz only for now, fonts are not so perfect under osX"
 
wildpig1234, you are absolutely right. Just posted them as something to keep an eye on. I'm not trying to convince you. Just showing that even some companies are using TVs now and what's coming up soon.
If you're coding you know how to make decisions like a boss.

mikeblas, I think wildpig1234 just forgot the comma before 60Hz in that line.
As for the reviews (more like blogposts about experiences, with comments from visitors) I don't know why. But if that "Cons" line is a straight copy+paste, I don't see chroma mentioned. Maybe let them know?
They were probably on hallucigens at the time. :D Or maybe crosseyed from the 4K@30Hz they were defying.
 
mikeblas said:
What does "60Hz" have to do with chroma? I don't get it. One of the reviews Illustrator linked said something similar: "Cons – 30Hz only for now, fonts are not so perfect under osX"
Click to expand...

Both take bandwidth.
 
All those reviews are out of date. I bet a lot of those reviews were done not just with 30hz but probably also suboptimal chroma hence the not so sharp txt and font.

We still don't have widespread 4K 60hz 4:4:4. but things are a little better now. every TV saying we got HDMI 2.0 and 4K, etc but the true triple requirements are still only completely meet in a minority of 4K TV.

The triple requirement is probably even more important for coding since the majority of time is staring at lines of txt.

Its not just the TV but you also need HDMI2.0 on your video card or you need to get an active DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter like the club3d one which is like out of stock right now on amazon.

Having said that, my experience with my samsung un40ju6500 has been fairly satisfying... 4K is really for me what make a big TV usable as a monitor. 1080p is too big pixel.
 
wildpig1234 said:
All those reviews are out of date. I bet a lot of those reviews were done not just with 30hz but probably also suboptimal chroma hence the not so sharp txt and font.

We still don't have widespread 4K 60hz 4:4:4. but things are a little better now. every TV saying we got HDMI 2.0 and 4K, etc but the true triple requirements are still only completely meet in a minority of 4K TV.

The triple requirement is probably even more important for coding since the majority of time is staring at lines of txt.

Its not just the TV but you also need HDMI2.0 on your video card or you need to get an active DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter like the club3d one which is like out of stock right now on amazon.

Having said that, my experience with my samsung un40ju6500 has been fairly satisfying... 4K is really for me what make a big TV usable as a monitor. 1080p is too big pixel.
Click to expand...



Yes you are completely right.
I'll remove the "reviews". It might confuse someone.
And thanks for the golden tips on the HDMI 2.0 on the video card requirement, and DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter. I sent back the LG 31MU97Z-B 4K monitor in November last year because it had HDMI 1.4 inputs. It would limit my Windows through KVM+QEMU+VFIO virtualisation on Fedora to less than 4K.
I pointed out the HDMI 1.4 ports as a big disadvantage here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1042105477&highlight=#post1042105477
 
Crossover 324k Software Engineer / Graphic Designer Review
32" 3840x2160 ARGB8:8:8:8 AHVA (IPS-type) Anti-Glare Monitor
Purchase price: $439.00
Ebay seller: Dream-Seller
Delivery time: Fedex in 3 business days. Ordered on Sunday, arrived on Thursday


Hardware Setup:
  • 2013 Macbook pro - Intel Iris Pro 1536MB integrated
  • OS/X 10.11.3 El Capitan
  • Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
  • Connection Type: Crossover DisplayPort cable -> DisplayPort to Min-DisplayPort Adapter

Usage Workflow:
  • OS/X & iOS Enterprise Software Development - Xcode / Objective C & HTML/CSS
  • Content pipeline design,implementation, production& management
  • Technical research, Word processing, Spreadsheets, Presentations, Marketing layouts & graphic production, video editing, etc,

Arrival and Setup:
  • The 324k arrived in a non-descript cardboard box without damage or issue.
  • Opening the first box, revealed a retail-stye printed box adorned with the Crossover 324K UHD HDMI 2.0 logo.
  • The display, power supply and base was easily removed from high-density foam packaging for assembly and setup.
  • Securing the base of the monitor to the display was easily accomplished with the enclosed screwdriver and 3 1" screws. The task was easily accomplished by:
    • Placing the 324K panel face down a table, with the hinge/mount hanging over the edge.
    • Sitting in a chair facing the panel, with my legs supporting the base
    • Align the first screw to the hinge mount and loosely screw it in and repeat.
    • Finish screwing and snugly tighten each screw.
  • Once assembled, the design of the 324K base and it's integrated tilting mechanism work well provide comfortable viewing angles on the desktop. Placement of the 100mm x 100mm mount on the back of the 324K is ideal and should allow it to work seamlessly with most mounting solutions.

Power-on to Desktop:
  • Powering on the 324K, it defaulted to the DisplayPort 1.2 connection @3840x216 with 32-bit color.
  • After switching the UI to english and venturing through the menu's, I was surprised to find the display had been setup for optimal performance.
  • I haven't found any stuck/dead pixels yet.
  • Out of the box, OS/X provides multiple HiDPI "retina quality" resolutions. Selecting Scaled resolutions in Display System Preferences enables access to 5 HiDPI resolutions.
  • To enable additional HiDPI resolutions for selection in third party apps like DisplayMenu use the following terminal command:
    • sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.plist DisplayResolutionEnabled -bool true

First Impressions:
  • The 324k is "easy on the eyes" and very comfortable to work with for long periods of time. While I start out on a resolution of 3008x1692, after a short period of time, I can can drop the resolution to 3200x1800 and 3840x2160 without eyestrain.
  • The AHVA (IPS-type) screen renders a crystal clear edge-to-edge image compared to my existing Seiki 39yu04's 4:2:2 SMVA screen, suffering from left and right edge view angle issues when use in a up-close a high-resolution Software Engineering / Graphic design Environment.
  • Displaying a completely black screen, there are minimal edge light consistency issues.
  • Using the 324K in an environment with varying and uncontrollable lighting conditions, the Anti-Glare 3H screen is a blessing. Glossy screen coatings, while providing deep blacks, are better suited to playing games VS making them.
  • Stepping down in size from a 39" SMVA Seiki to the 32" AHVA (IPS-type) Crossover, the 324K's ARGB8:8:8:8 panel more than makes up for any loss in size with a Quality image.
  • I have to note how CLEAR text is rendered on this panel in OS/X. I've been comfortably using the 324k without my prescribed stigmatism correcting programming glasses without eye strain.
  • I have not seen ANY issues with: image corruption, flashing static screens, display timeouts, etc.
  • The 324k wakes / returns to sleep without issue.

Bottom Line:
  • $439!!! It's a killer IPS Adobe RGB 32-Bit 8:8:8 4K display for the price.
  • Crossover apparently uses the same panels as those found in monitors 2x-3x the price.
  • Worth every penny and a definite recommended buy.
 
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I actually also have a crossover 324K. not to spoil your fun but it uses the same IPS panel as the benq 3201. I myself as well as many people have experience vertical line flash lasting for like 1 frame duration which happens infrequently. Just something to keep an eye out. I still think that $440 is a bargain for a 32 in 4K but was just wishing it's an artifact free panel. also the input lag is a little high around 40ms so it's good for programming games but might not be the best choice for playing fps games...

I think for a programmer 32-40 inch 4K is the sweet spot.
 
Thanks for posting your thoughts!

This monitor looks really interesting. But it's as if the company doesn't exist. I can't find any documentation, don't see the manufacturer's website, can't find any manuals, and so on.

The ebay auction you've linked says it comes with a Korean, Euro-style C-type power plug. Am I going to cut that off and replace it with a US plug?

I found this Tek Syndicate video review that investigates the product. One of the things this guy says (when enumerating the ports) seems to imply that DisplayPort is the only way to get 4:4:4 chroma, and that it isn't supported on HDMI. Is that true, or am I reading too much into his statement?

That review pointed out pixel density, which I think is one of my concerns ... resolution scaling is a pain in the ass. I'd hate to drag content from my laptop display, for example, to my panel and have it scaled incorrectly. I stare at text all day; the vast majority of reviews are about gaming. A few are about content creation apps, but I'm not seeing much advice for developers.

What's the difference between these two auction?

They're from the same seller, and AFAICT, the same products. But they vary pretty wildly in price!

To be frank, I'm terrified of buying it: There's no support, I've never seen it in person, and so on.
 
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http://www.crosslcd.co.kr/eng/ (probably no English pages for the 324K).

Quick site search:

Korean language pages:
http://www.crosslcd.co.kr (I see 2 threads for 324K in the REVIEW box at the moment. Probably links to threads on their own forum).
http://www.crosslcd.co.kr/main.html?tmp=product&pg=285k (New and old. Twice in the menu on the left).
http://brand.danawa.com/brand.php?id=CrossLcd&menu_seq=53131&listSeq=3047565&page=1&method=boardView (Probably the one from the review).
http://www.crosslcd.co.kr/board.html?table=notice&mode=read&idx=390 (324K Forum /Board thread).
http://www.crosslcd.co.kr/board.html?table=cross&mode=read&idx=2957 (324K Forum / Board thread.)
 
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mikeblas said:
Thanks for posting your thoughts!

This monitor looks really interesting. But it's as if the company doesn't exist. I can't find any documentation, don't see the manufacturer's website, can't find any manuals, and so on.

The ebay auction you've linked says it comes with a Korean, Euro-style C-type power plug. Am I going to cut that off and replace it with a US plug?

I found this Tek Syndicate video review that investigates the product. One of the things this guy says (when enumerating the ports) seems to imply that DisplayPort is the only way to get 4:4:4 chroma, and that it isn't supported on HDMI. Is that true, or am I reading too much into his statement?

That review pointed out pixel density, which I think is one of my concerns ... resolution scaling is a pain in the ass. I'd hate to drag content from my laptop display, for example, to my panel and have it scaled incorrectly. I stare at text all day; the vast majority of reviews are about gaming. A few are about content creation apps, but I'm not seeing much advice for developers.

What's the difference between these two auction?

Click to expand...


  • It has a DP 1.2 and HDMI 2.0 so there's 2 inputs for 4:4:4 4K 60hz. There are 2 more HDMI 1.4 also.

    There's no need to worry about any plug adapter. You can use any regular computer power cable as the monitor external adapter brick will take the usual 3 prong, like this:

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/9714618?w...82553552&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=70936944414&veh=sem

    Go with the cheaper $440 link. It's all the same. The seller has gotten a bunch of them shipped to california so they are already in US so he passes on that saving of the expedited oversea shipping to the customer. I paid $550 for mine like back in dec before this was available.. Many people get monitors from Korea. The majority does ok. you do have ebay protection...

    you should also know that this monitor uses the same 32 in ips panel as the benq 3201 and acer with reports of flashes of vertical lines of about 1 frame duration infrequently (up to a few times a day). See the benq 3201 thread on this forum for more details. This is present on 3 monitors using this same 32 in ips panel.

    pixel density is a little small but it's not real bad. you will love the retina effect. it's only 130 dpi anyway. If you insist on 100 dpi like in 30in 1600p then you have to get the samsung un40ju6500 as the similar priced option.
 
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Yeah, the vertical lines were mentioned in this thread before.
 
mikeblas said:
Yeah, the vertical lines were mentioned in this thread before.
Click to expand...

yeah I noticed I said that earlier :).

I can imagine as a programmer the small txt is straining for the whole day.
in that case you should go for the 40 in 4K instead. But I still think the 324K being designed as a monitor just look better overall to the eyes
 
I tried a 39-inch Seiki, and the corners were just too far away to see clearly.
 
Hrmm, it's pretty hard/impossible to beat a 2x 30" 2560x1600 setup ...
Rockin!
 
extide said:
Hrmm, it's pretty hard/impossible to beat a 2x 30" 2560x1600 setup ...
Rockin!
Click to expand...

It's easy - get 3x 30" :D

Seriously I hate having a bezel in the middle of my FOV so odd numbers work better for me.
 
mikeblas said:
I was hoping I could achieve similar effect with just one screen at work.

Are 30-inch screens still sold? They seem kinda scarce.
Click to expand...

for that kind of set up you probably want 40 in 4K. 32 in 4K is too small.

30 inch used one are available on ebay for $300-400. I have a few HP 3065 and theyre real good. Still like my 32 in 4K more but just wish that there is a 35 in 16:10 4K display.
 
wildpig1234 said:
for that kind of set up you probably want 40 in 4K.
Click to expand...
Someone here at work has a 39-inch Seiki and I tried it. The corners were a bit too far away for my comfort, so I'm pretty sure I'd prefer a smaller screen.
 
wildpig1234 said:
I actually also have a crossover 324K. not to spoil your fun but it uses the same IPS panel as the benq 3201. I myself as well as many people have experience vertical line flash lasting for like 1 frame duration which happens infrequently. Just something to keep an eye out. I still think that $440 is a bargain for a 32 in 4K but was just wishing it's an artifact free panel. also the input lag is a little high around 40ms so it's good for programming games but might not be the best choice for playing fps games...

I think for a programmer 32-40 inch 4K is the sweet spot.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more on screen size. The additional real estate helps with working with the user interface's of modern development IDE's.


A couple things that I've noted over the last week...
  • My 324k has a brightness flare on the bottom edge of display, directly behind the crossover logo, extending up into the image. The issue slightly increases the luminance of objects and is more visible from downward looking viewing angles.
  • Yep... I can also confirm the flash does occur with this display on Intel Integrated Chipsets when driving 2 displays. Working as a single display, through several non-stop development sessions, I haven't seen it... yet.
  • Crossover could increase the quality of the the power supply's attached power cord. It's a stiff, lower-quality cable that easily kinks,
  • The weight and size of the 324k makes it easy to grab the display for on-the-go development sessions in marketing. Luckily, the display and attached base perfectly fit in back end of my 370z for getting between buildings.
  • At 10 day with the 324k - no buyer's remorse OR eyestrain yet.
  • Side-by-side with a Dell 3007wfp-hc.. The 324k wins hands down.
 
thomaslfessler said:
.

[*] Yep... I can also confirm the flash does occur with this display on Intel Integrated Chipsets when driving 2 displays. Working as a single display, through several non-stop development sessions, I haven't seen it... yet.


[/list]
Click to expand...

Hmm, please keep an eye out and see if that is really the case. I would be real surprised if that is the fix. I think pretty just about the large majority of people don't use the crossover by itself. Pretty rare to find someone with single monitor set up nowaday. Anyway, not sure if that solution of using by itself is acceptable due to the fact that multimonitor is now kinda the norm. I imagine you want multimon set up too even with the crossover.
 
4k@32" makes text too small. And there is no 4k at the desired 35" size.

The Seiki 39" had the advantages of being both VA ( high contrast) and having a true 120Hz mode for gaming. But moving the mouse at 30Hz on 4k was laggy, to say the least.

There is a Philips 4k@40" with a VA panel that is an alternative for the Seiki, thanks to superior stand ergonomics and 60Hz@4k

I suggest 2560x1440@25" like the U2515H or 24" like the p2416D. 3 of these in portrait have 50% more pixels than a 4k panel, and you can adjust it to avoid the " missing edges" effect of large monitors.
 
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