So when are these 939's suppose to come out?

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Boa Constrictor

Limp Gawd
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Nov 12, 2003
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I was thinking of getting a A64 3000+, but I have been hearing A LOT of advice to beware and wait until some 939 socket comes along for the A64's.

So I searched on google for the release date of this 939, as the person who told me all this advice did not say. I would search but the search function is disabled, so I reckon you people should have a good idea around what time is it suppose to come?
 
Iam also in the exact same boat. I was actually going to buy my A64 system today...

socket 740. Are they going to stop making 740 chips after a certain speed? Thats really the only reason why Im holding back right now. 939 means nothing to me, unless it means thats the new form the 64s are going to be and AMD is going to stop making new 740s.

Whats the big difference between the sockets? Cause the 740s dont need registered RAM, so its not like they NEED to change the form, unless there is some sort of performance increase i dont know of...

The 940 (A-FX) is only for the RAM, Im I right? Whats the point of the 939?

ED:socket 754 (A64) socket 942 (AFX), my bad. anyway, price efficiency is the name of the game here. Im trying to find out that if I make this full upgrade, I want to be able to just buy a new processor and nothing else, half a year from now. Instead of new RAM, mobo, CPU, ect, ect...
 
The 939 pin CPU is the version of the FX that doesn't require registered RAM, supposedly. They're also going to migrate the A64 to that pin count as well just to make it easier on motherboard manufacturers, if I remember correctly.
 
It has been rumored that they are going to migrate all the A64s to the 939. They will continue producing both the 754 and 940 for awhile, and then fade off as long as there isnt much market demand. I figured by the time I need a CPU upgrade that will significantly increase performance all kinds of stuff will be out that will require a mobo change so waiting for the 939 doesnt really help me. The first set of 939s wont have the new stuff(DDR2, PCI express, etc..) most likely, so unless you want to wait awhile then I find the 754 and 940 a great upgrade if you can afford it. The motherboard change and RAM change that is stopping everyone from getting it doesnt make sense. I hope this post makes a little bit of sense, Its been hard to explain...
 
Originally posted by Sc0rched
It has been rumored that they are going to migrate all the A64s to the 939. They will continue producing both the 754 and 940 for awhile, and then fade off as long as there isnt much market demand. I figured by the time I need a CPU upgrade that will significantly increase performance all kinds of stuff will be out that will require a mobo change so waiting for the 939 doesnt really help me. The first set of 939s wont have the new stuff(DDR2, PCI express, etc..) most likely, so unless you want to wait awhile then I find the 754 and 940 a great upgrade if you can afford it. The motherboard change and RAM change that is stopping everyone from getting it doesnt make sense. I hope this post makes a little bit of sense, Its been hard to explain...
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Agreed, don't forget about the BTX form factor too. All new cases! That's why I just went ahead and got my Athlon 64.
 
754-pin will become the mainstream A64 platform. One big improvement 939-pin will eventually bring is dual-channel memory and 90nm. But most of all, future upgradabiltiy.
 
So you guys don't think waiting for the 939's is really that important? And no one has any time frame for their release? If its within next couple of months, I can force myself to wait. (current rig not running games at all, falling apart lol)
 
Originally posted by Boa Constrictor
So you guys don't think waiting for the 939's is really that important? And no one has any time frame for their release? If its within next couple of months, I can force myself to wait. (current rig not running games at all, falling apart lol)
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939-pin will probably come out April-May. 90nm won't come until like Q4 2004.

It is important waiting for it because if you buy 754-pin, you'll have to buy a new chip and mobo if you upgrade.

Changes are worth it. Non-buffered memory for 939-pin FX's will be a welcome change will offer a speed increase. Dual channel memory for the A64 will offer more memory bandwidth. But most of all 130nm is nearing its limit and 90nm will be needed to get better clocks (provided the heat issue is worked out).
 
Won't the 939 pin chips work with the current 940 pin motherboards? Same socket, one less pin right?
 
So you guys don't think waiting for the 939's is really that important? And no one has any time frame for their release? If its within next couple of months, I can force myself to wait. (current rig not running games at all, falling apart lol)
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Why torture yourself to wait for months on end. The 939 was supposed to be out now and its just getting pushed back farther and farther.

It is important waiting for it because if you buy 754-pin, you'll have to buy a new chip and mobo if you upgrade.
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Most people end up buying a new chip/mobo to upgrade anyways because new mobo=faster, more reliable, and more features. When DDR2, PCI express, BTX, and all the rest go mainstream then you will still need a new mobo because those things will probly be released after the new 64s. Technology always keeps moving, you just gotta jump in sometimes.

Its not like if you get the A64 now your going to upgrade at the end of the year. Sure there will be better clock speeds, but isnt that what happens every time a new processor is released? Most computers last about 2 years still being able to play all the games. Two years from now who knows where technology will be and waiting just doesnt make much sense. Sure alot of people feel different but they are already using 2500+ Athlons and 9600XTs. I was using 1.7 P4, Radeon 7000, and Windows ME!! From what you said you are in the same boat as I was.
 
Originally posted by Sc0rched
When DDR2, PCI express, BTX, and all the rest go mainstream then you will still need a new mobo because those things will probly be released after the new 64s.
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Those things won't be released until well after the switch to 939-pin.
 
If you're looking to buy an Athlon 64, Socket 754 is a pretty safe bet.
If you are looking to buy an Athlon 64 FX system, wait for Socket 939.
 
Originally posted by Sc0rched
Why torture yourself to wait for months on end. The 939 was supposed to be out now and its just getting pushed back farther and farther.



Most people end up buying a new chip/mobo to upgrade anyways because new mobo=faster, more reliable, and more features. When DDR2, PCI express, BTX, and all the rest go mainstream then you will still need a new mobo because those things will probly be released after the new 64s. Technology always keeps moving, you just gotta jump in sometimes.

Its not like if you get the A64 now your going to upgrade at the end of the year. Sure there will be better clock speeds, but isnt that what happens every time a new processor is released? Most computers last about 2 years still being able to play all the games. Two years from now who knows where technology will be and waiting just doesnt make much sense. Sure alot of people feel different but they are already using 2500+ Athlons and 9600XTs. I was using 1.7 P4, Radeon 7000, and Windows ME!! From what you said you are in the same boat as I was.
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So you think a 3000+ - 3200+ A64 is gonna run games well for two years? Cause thats my goal, something run new games well for 2+ years cause all I use my comp for is games.

Right now I'm buying something for Half Life 2/Doom 3 and I guess the A64's should run it well maxed out...

My current system is actually a 1ghz t-bird in a generic case that overheats. (didnt build it myself)
 
Originally posted by Boa Constrictor
So you think a 3000+ - 3200+ A64 is gonna run games well for two years? Cause thats my goal, something run new games well for 2+ years cause all I use my comp for is games.

Right now I'm buying something for Half Life 2/Doom 3 and I guess the A64's should run it well maxed out...

My current system is actually a 1ghz t-bird in a generic case that overheats. (didnt build it myself)
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I still suggest you wait for a A64 939-pin Dual Channel 90nm SOI DDRII in like 2005. But since you have until Doom3 and HL2, wait until April-May when A64s migrate to 939-pin.
 
Why? If you read the Athlon 64 3400+ reviews you would see that dual channel memory does little to no good for the Athlon 64 architecture, and we already know that DDR-II has considerably worse latency than the DDR we have now. The 90 nanometer process should yield higher frequencies, but when does one draw the line and just make a purchase?
 
Originally posted by xonik
Why? If you read the Athlon 64 3400+ reviews you would see that dual channel memory does little to no good for the Athlon 64 architecture, and we already know that DDR-II has considerably worse latency than the DDR we have now. The 90 nanometer process should yield higher frequencies, but when does one draw the line and just make a purchase?
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Ok, fine just buy a 939-pin A64 Newcastle when it comes out.
 
Originally posted by xonik
If you're looking to buy an Athlon 64, Socket 754 is a pretty safe bet.
If you are looking to buy an Athlon 64 FX system, wait for Socket 939.
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Why? If you read the Athlon 64 3400+ reviews you would see that dual channel memory does little to no good for the Athlon 64 architecture, and we already know that DDR-II has considerably worse latency than the DDR we have now. The 90 nanometer process should yield higher frequencies, but when does one draw the line and just make a purchase?
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I have to agree here actually. Now if I was to rebuild my system I would really consider a 3400+. I was actually going to wait for it, but when I heard end of Feb. I was like woah! AMD pushed em out faster then I expected. You need to draw a line somwhere and jump in. Sure you can wait and it will last to a later date, but didnt you just purchase it at a later date? The die size and pin count changes every few years so the "upgradability" it offers doesnt really exist unless you need a new processor every 1/2 year. For me I am just going to enjoy my system as long as possible then maybe in a year or so upgrade my VPU and be good to go for the next few years. Sure processor can increase your frames and such, but look in the benchmarks, they are all so close together. The reason I got the A64 was for the ability to get a midlife performance boost and It was the best chip on the market so it WILL last a few years. Game and software companies want to make $$$$$$$$ so they will make the games run on most all systems possible without giving up to much detail. I would say jump in now, or wait for another year or so... I think it depends how much you need an upgrade, which you have to decide.

Good Luck with whatever you choose!
 
hmm...

you guys either convinced me to wait for 939 newcastle, or wait until ibuypower.com has systems with A64 3400+

good. cause i dont know how much longer this athlon 1.2/geforce 3 is going to last...

ironically... i went to best buy last night and saw a Athlon 64 3000+ emachine with a ATI 9600. The first Medal of Honor was availible to play, so i went to the options and maxed out everything exactly the way i play it here and.... wow, i couldnt believe my eyes. The performance was WORSE than what i get on my 1.2/geforce3!

some people just dont know how to make computers... i hate seeing computers with badass processors at a low price only to have a crappy video card with it. its like buying a ferrari with a civc 4 cylinder in it.

i hate emachines....
 
Originally posted by LeviathanZERO
i hate emachines....
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They've gotten a lot better recently...and they're the only main desktop manufacturer to carry machines with the A64.

DDR2 might have horrible latencies and heat issues but it is the way of the future. AMD plans to support it half a year after 939-pin first comes out. PCI-Express is a no-brainer since it will replace AGP and PCI and it is a hell of a lot better. Vid cards will actually be right side up :).
 
HP has at least one system with an Athlon 64 3200+. I suspect that more systems will follow, now that AMD has 4 desktop Athlon 64s.
 
Originally posted by [H] - WRX
Agreed, don't forget about the BTX form factor too. All new cases! That's why I just went ahead and got my Athlon 64.
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What's this new form factor, I haven't heard about it yet. Are all companies moving over to the new BTX then?
 
From an Overclockers.com article today:

Towards the end of the year, we'll see 90nm processors come out, and they'll all be socket 939. Socket 754 owners will notice at that time that not only will there not be a 90nm socket 754 replacement, but that the new socket 754 replacement is a downgrade on what they already have.
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Buying a complete socket 754 system *today* is a good idea, if you intend to run the system for 2-3 years and then build another system from scratch.
Those of us that like to upgrade as we go would do well to skip 754 entirely and wait for 939. But that's just my opinion. :)
 
Originally posted by dylman
From an Overclockers.com article today:



Buying a complete socket 754 system *today* is a good idea, if you intend to run the system for 2-3 years and then build another system from scratch.
Those of us that like to upgrade as we go would do well to skip 754 entirely and wait for 939. But that's just my opinion. :)
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I agree with you but the Editor at overclockers.com seems very biased against AMD.
 
Originally posted by shramj
What's this new form factor, I haven't heard about it yet. Are all companies moving over to the new BTX then?
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Supposed to improve airflow (?) and some other things. But yes, all companies moving to BTX form factor.
 
Originally posted by DaveX
I agree with you but the Editor at overclockers.com seems very biased against AMD.
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I think the site just has a very jaded view of the industry in general at the moment. With good reason, probably. On the Intel side they say many uncomplimentary things about Prescott as well.

I think it comes down to the fact that both the Thoroughbred-B and the Northwood-C chips were both great overclockers; their successors don't appear to be. For the time being, at least.
 
Originally posted by DaveX
They've gotten a lot better recently...and they're the only main desktop manufacturer to carry machines with the A64.
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yeah, but what is your point? they still couple their processors with crappy/out of date video cards, which makes paying >$1000 for their systems a rip-off. Coming from a gamers stand point, of course.

its like when my friend bought a top of the line 650mhz intel that he thought was super fast until he found out UT wouldnt run over 25fps at 512x384x16 resolution, with everything off of course. boy was he pissed. it just seems shady to me, its like they are lying to the consumer. buy our superbadassultrafast system!! oh but you cant play games on it cause it has a m64 video card we didnt tell you about....:rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't put too much stock into what the guy was saying about skipping the 754 socket because it will be obsolete in 2-3 years. Even though it may be a true statement, it is still a very stupid one, because of a lack of options.

What desktop socket will be around in 2-3 years that is here today? And don't limit yourself to just AMD motherboards, look at Intel too. Sure, the in some cases the same physical socket will still be used, but at that a new CPU probably will not be compatable. And, who wants to plop a new CPU into a dinosaur of a mobo? If you wait that long to upgrade, you pretty much have to buy a new motherboard.
 
Originally posted by LeviathanZERO
yeah, but what is your point? they still couple their processors with crappy/out of date video cards, which makes paying >$1000 for their systems a rip-off. Coming from a gamers stand point, of course.

its like when my friend bought a top of the line 650mhz intel that he thought was super fast until he found out UT wouldnt run over 25fps at 512x384x16 resolution, with everything off of course. boy was he pissed. it just seems shady to me, its like they are lying to the consumer. buy our superbadassultrafast system!! oh but you cant play games on it cause it has a m64 video card we didnt tell you about....:rolleyes:
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Being a good consumer means doing maybe a slight amount of research before spending hundreds of dollars on an item. It's not like the videocard selection was hidden from the basic specs. Your friend was ignorant enough to assume that everything would be perfect. In reality, he should have been grateful that he could choose whatever card he'd like and pay market price, instead of whatever rate eMachines cared to mark it.
 
Originally posted by LeviathanZERO
yeah, but what is your point? they still couple their processors with crappy/out of date video cards, which makes paying >$1000 for their systems a rip-off. Coming from a gamers stand point, of course.

its like when my friend bought a top of the line 650mhz intel that he thought was super fast until he found out UT wouldnt run over 25fps at 512x384x16 resolution, with everything off of course. boy was he pissed. it just seems shady to me, its like they are lying to the consumer. buy our superbadassultrafast system!! oh but you cant play games on it cause it has a m64 video card we didnt tell you about....:rolleyes:
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WTF? My old Dell P3 866mhz w/ 32mb TNT2 M64 can run UT at 800x600 with no slowdown.
 
DocFaust,
i see your point, but what i want to be able to do is buy the processor now, at the start of the current generation, and then be able to purchase a new processor at the end of the generation without having to overhaul the entire system because everything is changed.

i.e. get a new a64 3000+ and then get a 4000+(assuming it goes that far, which it wont, but just an example) without having to buy new RAM, and mobo cause everything is incompatible. Im not trying to wait 2 years for an upgrade, but i want to be able to just have to buy a processor and not everything else in 6 months.

like lets see, i got a 1.2 athlon. i cant put in a XP chip in here, not because the socket is different, lets assume its the same, but my RAM is incompatible. (non-DDR) (mobo too, but just follow my example...)

see my point? gotta buy everything new. not cool, im not rich enough for that.
 
Originally posted by xonik
Being a good consumer means doing maybe a slight amount of research before spending hundreds of dollars on an item. It's not like the videocard selection was hidden from the basic specs. Your friend was ignorant enough to assume that everything would be perfect. In reality, he should have been grateful that he could choose whatever card he'd like and pay market price, instead of whatever rate eMachines cared to mark it.
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yeah, that was his fault, but still most consumers that arent as computer savvy as you and I, will not know about all those details they need to see. i just think their marketing is slightly dishonest.

WTF? My old Dell P3 866mhz w/ 32mb TNT2 M64 can run UT at 800x600 with no slowdown.
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I dont remember all the details of his system, not only was it not mine, but that was like 4-5 years ago. I do remember the performance though, since i tried to help him optimize it a bit. Not much room for that though...
 
Originally posted by LeviathanZERO
DocFaust,
i see your point, but what i want to be able to do is buy the processor now, at the start of the current generation, and then be able to purchase a new processor at the end of the generation without having to overhaul the entire system because everything is changed.

i.e. get a new a64 3000+ and then get a 4000+(assuming it goes that far, which it wont, but just an example) without having to buy new RAM, and mobo cause everything is incompatible. Im not trying to wait 2 years for an upgrade, but i want to be able to just have to buy a processor and not everything else in 6 months.

like lets see, i got a 1.2 athlon. i cant put in a XP chip in here, not because the socket is different, lets assume its the same, but my RAM is incompatible. (non-DDR) (mobo too, but just follow my example...)

see my point? gotta buy everything new. not cool, im not rich enough for that.
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Oh yea, I absolutely see what you are saying. Unfortunately, your options are limited right now. I guess your best bet would be Opteron for longevity if you were to buy today, second best I would guess is the A64 3xxx+ series. Soon the Prescott will be coming out for Intel and once it does, you may get a better feel for the chipsets/sockets on that side. But they have had a worse record for mobo longevity than AMD.

We are in a transition period right now in both camps, so you are stuck with some hard descisions if that is your main criteria.
 
i say go with the 3000+, but i wont get any mobo without a pci/agp lock.

so i say just wait and then if the nforce3-250 or the sis whatever chipset has the AGP/PCI lock(i think they'll be released somewhere around Q104) then i think its the best if i pair the 3000+ with that mobo and oc the hell outta that chip.
 
Originally posted by LeviathanZERO
i.e. get a new a64 3000+ and then get a 4000+(assuming it goes that far, which it wont, but just an example) without having to buy new RAM, and mobo cause everything is incompatible. Im not trying to wait 2 years for an upgrade, but i want to be able to just have to buy a processor and not everything else in 6 months.

like lets see, i got a 1.2 athlon. i cant put in a XP chip in here, not because the socket is different, lets assume its the same, but my RAM is incompatible. (non-DDR) (mobo too, but just follow my example...)

see my point? gotta buy everything new. not cool, im not rich enough for that.
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You are in the same dilemma as me. I also want to build a computer and was going to jump into the 754's, but seeing discussions about the 939's and some here and there saying it is worth the wait got me more confused.

Now I am wondering. Will the 939's (that have dual channel memory access) have a huge performance gain over the 754's (single channel memory access)?

And another question, what is pci/agp lock and why is it needed?
 
Originally posted by lil layzie
And another question, what is pci/agp lock and why is it needed?
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The PCI/AGP lock basically sets the frequency independently of the CPU. This is needed so that people who choose to overclock can do so without pushing antything connected to the PCI or AGP out of spec. It will lead to a more stable system at higher CPU speeds.
 
i'm just having a tough time with non-pci/agp lock boards for a64. i'm ready to jump into the 754 arena. since i know i will get 939 in when they are released. i can give my dad the 754 system and phase k7 out of the house by summer hahaa.

i really do hope the ecs 755-a gets here (canada) fast.
 
That article might have some merit to it, but 1) they could be wrong, and 2) the rumor only applies to people that would upgrade their CPU multiple times on the same motherboard.
 
Originally posted by Boa Constrictor
This article here says not to buy an A64 as its a very poor choice until it changes sockets : http://www.overclockers.com/articles902/

:(

I guess I will have to be without games for more months
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And like somebody earlier mentioned, the Editor at overclockers.com pretty much doesn't want anybody to buy anything.
 
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