Snowden: I'd Go To Jail To Come Back To The U.S.

Chas said:
Really?

The fact that the government is using illegal means to spy on native citizens, as well as foreign nationals is worthless?

Seriously?

So, you'd have no problem living in a complete panopticon society?
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Only criminal scum that wanna ruin stuff or people that feel guilty about what they're doing because they know they're up to something wrong would feel that kinda society is a bad thing.
 
Just watch the whole BBC interview and im still on the fence about him. Like yeah the public needs to know its being watched but could he have told us in a better way?
 
I always thought his problem was that he didn't stop at PRISM, he kept releasing shit which is why hes in some hovel in russia, PRISM and I think he might've mentioned some other spy programs like Tempora, STATEROOM, MUSCULAR, XKeyscore and maybe some others...

But all those are still going so...it didn't seem to help much considering the number of connected electronic devices glued to peoples heads each day is growing, TV's, cars etc...
 
If Snowden only reported on illegal government activities against US citizens within the US I would applaud him. He didn't just do that; he released information on how US gathers intelligence on foreign powers which to me is being a traitor.
 
We've been keepin the cell ready for ya
I mean whenever that contract with the KGB expires of course.
 
Red Squirrel said:
US prison is probably one of the harshest places in the world you could go to, other than some 3rd world country prisons, not sure why he'd want to go back to the states only to get pretty much all his life taken away. Doing a crime against the government is like 10x worse than a crime against a civilian so he would get the book thrown at him despite the fact what he did was actually the right thing, ethically speaking.

Pretty sure if he does not get life they'd probably give him death. I could see the US government pull that off tbh. Basically they would treat him as a war criminal.

In reality, it's the government that is criminal.
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He broke federal law he'd go to federal jail which is much nicer than any state jail.
Spidey329 said:
The US would have to guarantee an open/public trial. Otherwise if he comes back I'd suspect he gets renditioned by secret court-order and tried in some secret trial, never to be heard from again.

Our government doesn't exactly play by the same rules post 9/11.
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Any trail would be about negotiating sentencing his guilt is already established so all that could be argued would be in front of a judge on leniency which wouldn't get far. So no matter what he'd go to jail in the US only way he'd leave jail would be a lawsuit afterwords or presidential pardon.
jojo69 said:
no, no I would not think that

I think it is summary execution for Ed if they ever get hold of him
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Just like they did with Manning... oh wait that was sarcasm.
 
GORANKAR said:
It still does not change my point that the government need only proceed with a normal trial, in a normal way, to put Snowden in jail forever +100 years.
I understand that some here are invested in the idea that the government is so totally and completely corrupt that it would have to do something, at the very least shady, if not outright illegal, to get a conviction on this "hero". That simply is not the case.
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Oh no. I acknowledge this.

But publicity is a bitch. Which is why I'm willing to bet real money that if he ever DID come back, some sort of "documented social/sexual/personal" issue would "come to light", and distract from any publicity drummed up to keep pointing out that he's going to jail for outing government corruption.

Seriously, how much attention was paid to Bradley Manning after he "decided" to become "Chelsea". Was there legitimate desire for this on his part? I dunno. I don't honestly care. I do know that this country's insanely puritanical even today, and coverage of manning was dropped like a nuclear-explosion-hot potato.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Only criminal scum that wanna ruin stuff or people that feel guilty about what they're doing because they know they're up to something wrong would feel that kinda society is a bad thing.
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Do you even know, or understand what a panopticon society is?

It's essentially 24x7 surveillance of EVERYONE every moment of their lives, regardless of where they are.

The whole "only scum have anything to hide" argument is bullshit. NOBODY wants to be monitored and checked and interdicted every last moment of their lives. Whether they have anything to hide or not.

You're okay with the government watching every intimate moment of your life?

Such a society is ripe for abuse of power.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to abrogate my freedoms to the point where such an atrocity is viable.
 
Chas said:
Do you even know, or understand what a panopticon society is?

It's essentially 24x7 surveillance of EVERYONE every moment of their lives, regardless of where they are.

The whole "only scum have anything to hide" argument is bullshit. NOBODY wants to be monitored and checked and interdicted every last moment of their lives. Whether they have anything to hide or not.

You're okay with the government watching every intimate moment of your life?

Such a society is ripe for abuse of power.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to abrogate my freedoms to the point where such an atrocity is viable.
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Yeah, whatever. I'm 100% okay with full time monitoring of everyone at all times, but only if a government is doing it and is able to use that to be in better control of what everyone does and thinks. I think it'd be awesome if that happened and I don't care if someone abuses power because of it. It's not like letting a buncha rednecks and other low income people decide their own fate has really done anything good for the world in the past 200+ years. Let's try something different since Bubba Bo and Jenny Jean totally need the social elite's help to do better.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, whatever. I'm 100% okay with full time monitoring of everyone at all times, but only if a government is doing it and is able to use that to be in better control of what everyone does and thinks. I think it'd be awesome if that happened and I don't care if someone abuses power because of it. It's not like letting a buncha rednecks and other low income people decide their own fate has really done anything good for the world in the past 200+ years. Let's try something different since Bubba Bo and Jenny Jean totally need the social elite's help to do better.
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Then go ahead and move off to your own little island and turn it into a camwhore state and be happy.

That shit isn't supposed to be happening here in the US.

Period.
 
Chas said:
Then go ahead and move off to your own little island and turn it into a camwhore state and be happy.

That shit isn't supposed to be happening here in the US.

Period.
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Like it or not, its how things are going. Besides, like I keep saying, people only fear that if they're doing something they think will warrant the wrong kinda attention. Before you get upset and go on the attack over stuff that'll obviously benefit society, stop and reconsider what you're doing that you feel so guilty about.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Like it or not, its how things are going. Besides, like I keep saying, people only fear that if they're doing something they think will warrant the wrong kinda attention. Before you get upset and go on the attack over stuff that'll obviously benefit society, stop and reconsider what you're doing that you feel so guilty about.
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Dude, if you're going to troll, go elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with feeling guilty about anything. It has to do with the fact that I don't care to be monitored and watched every second of the day, every place I happen to be.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, whatever. I'm 100% okay with full time monitoring of everyone at all times, but only if a government is doing it and is able to use that to be in better control of what everyone does and thinks. I think it'd be awesome if that happened and I don't care if someone abuses power because of it. It's not like letting a buncha rednecks and other low income people decide their own fate has really done anything good for the world in the past 200+ years. Let's try something different since Bubba Bo and Jenny Jean totally need the social elite's help to do better.
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I mean I guess since you are so ok with it. I should probably mention that I held a top secret security clearance in the Military as a result of my job involving nuclear weapons. As such I do know that everything I do is actually monitored. So I probably shouldn't mention the coded information that I've been passing to CuG which would tie him to me and get him actively monitored.


Beware what you wish for.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I mean I guess since you are so ok with it. I should probably mention that I held a top secret security clearance in the Military as a result of my job involving nuclear weapons. As such I do know that everything I do is actually monitored. So I probably shouldn't mention the coded information that I've been passing to CuG which would tie him to me and get him actively monitored.


Beware what you wish for.
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For employment - it's voluntary. You want that job, that's the way it has to be.

CUG has mentioned before that he supports communist countries. I doubt he's going to make a nuclear bomb, but he might. He does support our President. It's just another roll of the die.

:) Am I on the list now? :)
 
Ur_Mom CreepyUncleGoogle 9/11 plane crash accident disaster anthrax Ebola bin laden Allah jihad bomb mail pipe airport security radioactive

There, now you're both on the list :D
 
Ur_Mom said:
For employment - it's voluntary. You want that job, that's the way it has to be.

CUG has mentioned before that he supports communist countries. I doubt he's going to make a nuclear bomb, but he might. He does support our President. It's just another roll of the die.

:) Am I on the list now? :)
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Probably, but I suspect an entirely different list. :D Fly out of the country then back and see what kind of "questions" you get asked in the little room.
 
On that note and to be fair, in general those agencies aren't in the business of wasting time. I was being dead serious when I mentioned my background and that I am indeed monitored to a degree. I also know that what I said will trigger at least a cursory glance from someone. I doubt it would go much past that, but the point was to redirect the microscope so to speak. Though I probably caused myself more trouble than anything as every time I do this, I invariably end up with a visit and answering questions. But I figured 5 minutes of my time was worth throwing his logic back at him for a moment. If nothing else I I haven't seen the guy that was assigned to me for some years and it would be a good excuse to catch up. I'll just have to buy him a beer for bothering him lol.
 
Steve said:
That's odd, you'd think the U.S. government would be more than willing to take Edward Snowden up on this offer. ;)

Edward Snowden, the former U.S. government contractor who fled to Russia more than two years ago after leaking documents about National Security Agency surveillance programs, says he's willing to go to jail in order to return to the United States.
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So he'd rather take it from behind in an US jail than from Putin in Russia.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
On that note and to be fair, in general those agencies aren't in the business of wasting time. I was being dead serious when I mentioned my background and that I am indeed monitored to a degree. I also know that what I said will trigger at least a cursory glance from someone. I doubt it would go much past that, but the point was to redirect the microscope so to speak. Though I probably caused myself more trouble than anything as every time I do this, I invariably end up with a visit and answering questions. But I figured 5 minutes of my time was worth throwing his logic back at him for a moment. If nothing else I I haven't seen the guy that was assigned to me for some years and it would be a good excuse to catch up. I'll just have to buy him a beer for bothering him lol.
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You expect to be monitored for work, though. If I worked a job like that, I'd expect someone to be checking up on what I'm doing and who I'm talking to. Most things would be ignored.

But, most other people that don't require that kind of security should be able to talk shit if they want without that visit.

Damn. I don't want to be on a list. I'm harmless. :( Mr. NSA guy - I'm sorry. :)
 
Ur_Mom said:
You expect to be monitored for work, though. If I worked a job like that, I'd expect someone to be checking up on what I'm doing and who I'm talking to. Most things would be ignored.

But, most other people that don't require that kind of security should be able to talk shit if they want without that visit.

Damn. I don't want to be on a list. I'm harmless. :( Mr. NSA guy - I'm sorry. :)
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Exactly, work and personal are entirely different things. I am utterly 100% against individual citizens being monitored without probable cause AND a warrant to do so. I accepted my situation based on the job choices I made when entering the military.

I'll probably end up with a phone call in the next 24 hours or so calling me an asshole and telling me what beer to have on hand.:D Yea, I've done this before.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I mean I guess since you are so ok with it. I should probably mention that I held a top secret security clearance in the Military as a result of my job involving nuclear weapons. As such I do know that everything I do is actually monitored. So I probably shouldn't mention the coded information that I've been passing to CuG which would tie him to me and get him actively monitored.


Beware what you wish for.
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White world stuff like that is pretty much uninteresting to the people that are doing the watching and you'd need like more than just your basic TS for nuclear stuff. SCI is a good place to start. :p
 
On a related note, another sign of moving closer to a police state, and, as the thread shows, many people who will volunteer to serve their overlords on their own:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...rdue-so-feds-demanded-the-video-be-destroyed/

The conference hosts, once warm and hospitable, stopped replying to my e-mails and telephone calls. I don’t hold it against them. Very likely they are under lockdown by spokesmen and lawyers.
...
More importantly, to my mind, Purdue has compromised its own independence and that of its students and faculty. It set an unhappy precedent, even if the people responsible thought they were merely following routine procedures.
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But it's ok, it's more important that Snowden pulled a Dalai Lama on master Sam.

Burn the books.
 
lcpiper said:
The ONLY malfeasence in this entire story is this;

Ed Snowden was a loser who wanted to be a big hero type guy but was never willing to do what is required to actually earn it.

He dropped out of high school, years later he got his GED, probably a lot of people do just fine this way, nothing really wrong with it I guess, but it's the start of a life long pattern.

He wanted to be important so he signed up to be a security guard checking to make sure the doors were locked at a University Library that just happened to be where the NSA has a language school. Of course he tries to make it sound like he worked as a security guard for the NSA.

He needs to be a bigger hero, not a flunky. Ed signs up for the Army, four months later he's out having never completed any training. He makes up some bullshit story that he broke both his legs in training. Well he did sign up to be a Green Beret and sometimes they get hurt bad in training, specially in Jump School. The problem is, nobody goes to jump School without finishing Basic Training first. And most people sign up on what's called Delayed Entry and your technically in the Army when you sign up even though it takes months before you go to your first School. The news won't say anything about it but I'd be willing to bet real money he never even showed up for training at all. If it smells like shit and looks like shit chances are, it's just shit.

Now Ed spends some time working for Dell as a hardware warranty tech, I know what his job was because that's the only work Dell does for the DoD. Dell doesn't do anything more because that is the companys only business, selling hardware and wardware related services. But it was at an NSA facility in Japan but hardware techs only get security clearances cause they work in the building not because they work with classified information. Still, this is when he started stealing classified information. Neadless to say, I guy like this is not briefed on Intelligence Operations, is not educated on what is the authroity for them or the protections in place to guard against misuse. Still, good old "true patriot" wants so bad to be an important guy, to know secrets, that he is commiting felonies to gain access to data while he is basicly an IT flunky responsible for replacing bad PSUs, Fans, and Mobos. No guy in a position like this is trusted with access to systems and data storage.

Now Ed is really working hard to get something good, to be someone, he's reading this classified stuff and really wants one of these secret spook jobs. He's sick of fans and crap work. He lies about his education to swing a job with Booz Allen, within weks they are asking for proof of his education and he realizes he's busted. They will boot him and he'll never get hired again for this stuff. He doesn't know what to do. And all the time Private Manning and wikileaks is in the news. The light bulb goes off, he grabs all he can and he runs to try and make himself a hero.

You can buy it all this crap and the fact that the media won't dig into his real history and post any facts that matter at all, I don't. The media sells Wow and Snowden's real life is not going to sell Wow so they won't talk about it. They won't kill a name that is worth a million clicks everytime it shows up even if it's a story about the Encryption Technology used by Alien Species.
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Icpiper I would respect you a whole lot more if you didn't post made up bullshit.

Yes, he started working as a security guard at the Center for Advanced Study of Language at the University of Maryland so that he could get security clearances and an "in" into the intelligence community. However, in 2005 he got a contract based job as a "technical expert" for the CIA (read: IT guy). In 2006, he transitioned to a full time position and in 2007 he moved to Switzerland where he was stationed in Geneva until 2010. You're right about the brief Dell stint for the NSA in Japan but he ultimately ended up teaching cyber counterintelligence a the Defense Intelligence Agency's Joint Counterintelligence Training Academy before going back to Dell in 2011. He was prepared to leak the NSA documents in 2012 then but wanted to be able to paint a complete picture for the public instead of just dropping some documents that would quickly be forgotten without the proper context. After all the media publicity and interviews he's done, you're a fool to think he's doing this to boost his own ego. Every aspect of his plan was detailed, methodical, and well thought out. If it hadn't been, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.
 
Plus, even if Snowden diddled kids let's say - he would be a piece of shit but it wouldn't invalidate what he made the world aware of.

Some small minded people can't can't see the forest for the trees and make it about the man and not the message. Or they're just shills really bad at hiding it.
 
What I'm saying is that "they" are conditioning you to believe that the government is the reason you have your rights and laws to follow.

The reason that we are being trained this way is to make it easier for "them" to remove our rights in the future.

If people understood that all things are legal until made illegal that would go a long way to understanding what is happening.
 
staknhalo said:
Plus, even if Snowden diddled kids let's say - he would be a piece of shit but it wouldn't invalidate what he made the world aware of.

Some small minded people can't can't see the forest for the trees and make it about the man and not the message. Or they're just shills really bad at hiding it.
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No, some ingnorant and nieve people think that Snowden revealed evil intent and wrong doing when he instead only caused harm the scope of which you seen unable to comprehend.

Go learn some things about the real world, experience some things and gain a new view of what is really happening and why, you might change your view about what it really was that Snowden did. Outing how the US successfully watches our enemies in the world doesn't have anything at all to do with the privacy of US Citizens.
 
lcpiper said:
No, some ingnorant and nieve people think that Snowden revealed evil intent and wrong doing when he instead only caused harm the scope of which you seen unable to comprehend.

Go learn some things about the real world, experience some things and gain a new view of what is really happening and why, you might change your view about what it really was that Snowden did. Outing how the US successfully watches our enemies in the world doesn't have anything at all to do with the privacy of US Citizens.
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I have no issues with the US spying on foreign citizens or foreign heads of state. That's their job. Violating the Constitution and 4th Amendment is not. Educate yourself.
 
I've been over to Russia four times, the people are mix of nice and sleazy like every where else but the food is horrible. Sauces are used to hide old meat, which when used with fresh food taste great but often times you just smell the food to realize that it is rotten while the restaurants laugh at you because food is hard to get over there. St Petersburg aka moscow is usually the safest place to eat becuase their leadership is there. I remember sitting in a bar over there with Nytalia and we had these perfect sirlions only to find out they were flash frozen in the states and shipped over to Russia because the people raising cattle tend to only sell the stuff at too high a price or it gets mislaid half way to the capital. So I asked why not just fix the problem, and she told me something really funny. She preferred knowing what went into the cow so if the beef gets mislaid on the way there so they have to pay for usda food, she is all the more happy the citizens get food that is not spoiled and she gets to eat safe beef that she does not have to worry about coming from the hot zone. I just shook my head how do you begin to even comment on something like that. Most of the world eats bad food from battle fields salted with the dead, to radioactive zones like Tokyo and Russia's hot zone, millions of miles of mildly radioactive ground that slowly poisons your live until you die of sepective poisoning or blood poisoning.
People want to come to the US for the food and socialist programs that help anyone with a sob story, well most anyone grin. They tend to expect you to eat bad food for you and live in cheap apartments with bugs and other people in bad shape. Some times I wonder in the programs are so that people slighly better off can look at them say well there is always someone worse off than me.
 
Same with the NSA shit, if this was Russia or China spying on citizens around the world Americans in particular would have been outraged and the Politicians would consider it an "act of war" which it is (it's only acceptable to spy on the other sides spies and persons of interest not the general population), but if it's America it's for the "greater good" and the world is just expected to deal with it.
 
Not that I read the article but what is keeping this guy in Russia if he'd rather come to the US and serve prison time? Is he being held against his will? If this is so, the irony.
 
That he'd pretty much not be given a fair trial and found guilty right off the bat.

Many people will say he broke the law so should face the punishment; regardless of whether the law that was broken is just or not.

Many just accept laws and rules without question and, those who do so, would gladly see him given the death penalty or worse the moment he steps back on U.S. soil.
 
iDShaDoW said:
That he'd pretty much not be given a fair trial and found guilty right off the bat.

Many people will say he broke the law so should face the punishment; regardless of whether the law that was broken is just or not.

Many just accept laws and rules without question and, those who do so, would gladly see him given the death penalty or worse the moment he steps back on U.S. soil.
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Do we really need to question laws that government employees should not steal and then release data? No.
 
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