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SM2.0b being phased out?

K

kcthebrewer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Messages
1,728
From what I have seen from recently released games and from games in the horizon they are going to skip SM2.0 for backwards compatibility. This, to me, is a big deal for those that just bought the xX00 series from ATI as their card cannot run the highest quality mode (Splinter Cell Chaos Theory for example - SM1.1 and 3.0). Anyone have an opinion on this? (feel ripped off, still pleased with their purchase, etc.)

No flamers, please.
 
Besides Splinter Cell, what other games skip 2.0 though? If anything I can see 1.x going the way of the dodo instead.
 
SM2.0 isn't going anywhere. SM2.0b might get very little support since ATI is supporting SM3 on their next release.
 
kcthebrewer said:
Which good game other than HL2 and Painkiller isn't?
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So we have the NV 'crew' spitting blue murder about Valve 'raping' their cards performance in HL2 because of their deal with ATi, yet when a TWIMTBP game actually drops PS2.0 this is seen as acceptable? :rolleyes:
 
Tigerblade said:
a game actually drops PS2.0 this is seen as acceptable?
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They didn't 'drop' it, it wasn't developed for/with it. That is the whole point of my post.
 
kcthebrewer said:
They didn't 'drop' it, it wasn't developed for/with it. That is the whole point of my post.
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And in doing so cutting off alot of high end card users. Let alone all the higher FX, and countless 9500Pro upward users. I'm sure it wouldn't have been difficult to code PS2.0 into it :rolleyes:

I would guess that there are FAR more users out there that use PS2.0 cards over the 6800series. Doesn't make sense :confused:
 
They may skip 2.0b in favour of plain 2.0 but i doubt they'll abandon it altogether.
 
Tigerblade said:
So we have the NV 'crew' spitting blue murder about Valve 'raping' their cards performance in HL2 because of their deal with ATi, yet when a TWIMTBP game actually drops PS2.0 this is seen as acceptable? :rolleyes:
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haha...well I"m a card carrying member of the "NV crew" so let me take a stab at responding to that...

well...it's not quite that simple...the x800s and ps2.0b make up a very small minority of the cards out there and ATi is phasing ps2.0b out...so it will have less than a year lifespan...however...as you can see from Valve's own survey, FX cards make up at least 17% of their users (could be more due to people running in linux being listed as unknown which was another 7%)...and yet they dropped the partial precision path which would have greatly increased performance on those cards...and the fact that they had a marketing deal with ATi just made that whole situation look shady as hell..like Valve cared more about their advertising partners than their end-users...

basically it just seems like bullshit that Valve took the time to make "ATi-only" levels and put ATi advertisements all over everything...but they didn't bother to work on getting the best possible experience for nearly 20% of their users...

so I think the bitching about lack of 2.0b support in some new games and the lack of partial precision in HL2 has really just been proportional to the number of people that got screwed over in each respective case...

personally I think it's a good idea for everyone to skip 2.0b as it's only enabled on one generation of cards from one manufacturer and is nothing more than a marketing stop-gap on the way to PS3.0...

To the topic at hand...yeah 2.0b was only temporary...I don't even think it's really an official dx version...instancing for example can't be officially supported on x800 cards because it's technically part of sm3.0...

It's no big deal though, you can all just sell your x800s and upgrade to an r520 in 12 months when they're widely available at msrp...;)
 
Tigerblade said:
And in doing so cutting off alot of high end card users. Let alone all the higher FX, and countless 9500Pro upward users. I'm sure it wouldn't have been difficult to code PS2.0 into it :rolleyes:

I would guess that there are FAR more users out there that use PS2.0 cards over the 6800series. Doesn't make sense :confused:
Click to expand...

Why so upset...according to ATi there's nothing SM3 can do that SM2 can't...right?
 
^^ PEople with 6800GTs are also a small minority, most people have like, the FX series or less, which doesnt support SM3.0
 
^eMpTy^ said:
haha...well I"m a card carrying member of the "NV crew" so let me take a stab at responding to that...

well...it's not quite that simple...the x800s and ps2.0b make up a very small minority of the cards out there and ATi is phasing ps2.0b out...so it will have less than a year lifespan...however...as you can see from Valve's own survey, FX cards make up at least 17% of their users (could be more due to people running in linux being listed as unknown which was another 7%)...and yet they dropped the partial precision path which would have greatly increased performance on those cards...and the fact that they had a marketing deal with ATi just made that whole situation look shady as hell..like Valve cared more about their advertising partners than their end-users...

basically it just seems like bullshit that Valve took the time to make "ATi-only" levels and put ATi advertisements all over everything...but they didn't bother to work on getting the best possible experience for nearly 20% of their users...

so I think the bitching about lack of 2.0b support in some new games and the lack of partial precision in HL2 has really just been proportional to the number of people that got screwed over in each respective case...

personally I think it's a good idea for everyone to skip 2.0b as it's only enabled on one generation of cards from one manufacturer and is nothing more than a marketing stop-gap on the way to PS3.0...

To the topic at hand...yeah 2.0b was only temporary...I don't even think it's really an official dx version...instancing for example can't be officially supported on x800 cards because it's technically part of sm3.0...

It's no big deal though, you can all just sell your x800s and upgrade to an r520 in 12 months when they're widely available at msrp...;)
Click to expand...

I'm not upset, don't like the Splinter Cell games anyway ;) The OP stated it was PS2.0....not 2.0b.

From what I have seen from recently released games and from games in the horizon they are going to skip SM2.0 for backwards compatibility

That's what my arguement is. Contrary to ur assuming I'm talking about JUST the x800 line, read my previous post.....

I stand by that there are FAR more PS2.0 enabled cards on the market than PS3.0.....and again I'll say doesn't make sense. Money talks, this would make more money if were PS2.0 enabled.

Oh and BTW, I agree Valve are assholes.....everygame should run perfectly on every card....why would I think otherwise :confused:
 
Tigerblade said:
I'm not upset, don't like the Splinter Cell games anyway ;) The OP stated it was PS2.0....not 2.0b. That's what my arguement is. Contrary to ur assuming I'm talking about JUST the x800 line, read my previous post.....

I stand by that there are FAR more PS2.0 enabled cards on the market than PS3.0.....and again I'll say doesn't make sense. Money talks, this would make more money if were PS2.0 enabled.
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yeah I read that right after I posted...thus my second post...personally...I'm not privy to the inner workings of their company or anything...but maybe they just couldn't get the effects they wanted with PS2.0? there are tons of logical reasons why they would do such a thing...maybe they had features that went beyond ps2.0 and stuff that could be done in ps1.4 and there was no need to write a ps2.0 codepath when they could just use 1.4 and then everything back to the geforce3 would work with it...

whatever the case...don't worry...I'm sure all those ps2.0 cards run ps1.4 just fine as well...
 
Hate_Bot said:
^^ PEople with 6800GTs are also a small minority, most people have like, the FX series or less, which doesnt support SM3.0
Click to expand...

Exactly my point my friend.
 
Tigerblade said:
Oh and BTW, I agree Valve are assholes.....everygame should run perfectly on every card....why would I think otherwise :confused:
Click to expand...

I wouldn't got that far...I just thought the whole thing seemed kinda shady...like...they had the pp path already in there...why did they take it out? just seemed like they were playing to ATi a little too much...but whatever...the game was awesome...all is forgiven on my end...

Plus, they did do me the courtesy of delaying the game for over a year so I could play it on a 6800 instead of my FX...thanks Valve!
 
^eMpTy^ said:
whatever the case...don't worry...I'm sure all those ps2.0 cards run ps1.4 just fine as well...
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I'm not worried :D

My point is, getting bored of repeating it, why code a game that will run maxed out on a relative handful of cards. Personally, IF I liked the game, and I saw it had cut PS2.0 out, I'd put it back on the shelf and buy another game. And there will be alot of ppl out there like me.

I don't think it was the coder's idea.....but then that's the cynical side of me :cool:
 
Tigerblade said:
Wondered when ud turn up as u were most likely one of the main whiners.....

If it isn't a TWIMTBP game my bad, otherwise my point would stand, no matter your view of my post.
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I'm here now and you have nothing to say. Good work.
 
Tigerblade said:
I'm not worried :D

My point is, getting bored of repeating it, why code a game that will run maxed out on a relative handful of cards. Personally, IF I liked the game, and I saw it had cut PS2.0 out, I'd put it back on the shelf and buy another game. And there will be alot of ppl out there like me.

I don't think it was the coder's idea.....
Click to expand...

Well luckily most gamers are morons who don't even know what ps2.0 is...so I doubt it will hurt sales at all...here's another thought...maybe the game engine was developed for the xbox...which is dx8.1 since it's a pseudo gf4...and then Nvidia helped them add the ps3.0 stuff because nvidia is cool like that...so they had to do ps1.4...and nvidia gave hooked them up to do ps3.0...maybe ps2.0 would have delayed the game by another 6 months...that seems pretty reasonable don't you think?
 
Geez, are people still not over the fact that FX cards can't play HL2 with SM2.0? :(
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Well luckily most gamers are morons who don't even know what ps2.0 is...so I doubt it will hurt sales at all...here's another thought...maybe the game engine was developed for the xbox...which is dx8.1 since it's a pseudo gf4...and then Nvidia helped them add the ps3.0 stuff because nvidia is cool like that...so they had to do ps1.4...and nvidia gave hooked them up to do ps3.0...maybe ps2.0 would have delayed the game by another 6 months...that seems pretty reasonable don't you think?
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Very possibly, just seems to cut ALOT of users out.
 
Tigerblade said:
Very possibly, just seems to cut ALOT of users out.
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dude...they're not cut out for crying out loud...they can still play the game and it's still going to look just fine...I guarantee the vast majority of people who play the game are incapable of telling the difference...
 
pxc said:
I'm here now and you have nothing to say. Good work.
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Ok :confused:

I've said all I wanna say. You feel left out that we've had a healthy debate without you?

It's ok, we'll wait till your about next time.....foo

Some of u NV !!!!!!s are a tad strange :confused:
 
Tigerblade said:
Ok :confused:

I've said all I wanna say. You feel left out that we've had a healthy debate without you?

It's ok, we'll wait till your about next time.....foo

Some of u NV !!!!!!s are a tad strange :confused:
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I think I want to run for NV !!!!!! president...any nominations?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
dude...they're not cut out for crying out loud...they can still play the game and it's still going to look just fine...I guarantee the vast majority of people who play the game are incapable of telling the difference...
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I'm not making myself clear :)

They cut out high visuals for a vast majority. I'd be suprised if their wasn't a noticeable diff between PS1.4 and PS3.0, and making someone who has a PS2.0 card play a game in PS1.4 isn't gonna sit with alot of people.

I agree it'll look good yeah, but it's the bells and whistle's ;)
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I think I want to run for NV !!!!!! president...any nominations?
Click to expand...

That post wasn't reffering to you :cool:

We are having a healthy debate....certain others can only debate by slagging others off....
 
Tigerblade said:
I'm not making myself clear :)

They cut out high visuals for a vast majority. I'd be suprised if their wasn't a noticeable diff between PS1.4 and PS3.0, and making someone who has a PS2.0 card play a game in PS1.4 isn't gonna sit with alot of people.

I agree it'll look good yeah, but it's the bells and whistle's ;)
Click to expand...

the big deal is HDR...which isn't available on PS2.0 anyways...in a dark game like that...the difference between 1.4 and 2.0 is probably minimal...I've seen screenshots of the game already...aside from HDR...ps3.0 and ps1.4 don't look that much different...

have you looked at the screenshots?
 
Tigerblade said:
That post wasn't reffering to you :cool:

We are having a healthy debate....certain others can only debate by slagging others off....
Click to expand...

no I'm dead serious...I think it's time I got a little recognition for my vehement support of Nvidia...;)
 
Tigerblade said:
Just out of curiosity.....is this game a TWIMTBP game?
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TWIMTBP has nothing to do with this stuff. Take for instance EverQuest II. It's a TWIMTBP game, and it plays way smoother on the X800 cards.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
no I'm dead serious...I think it's time I got a little recognition for my vehement support of Nvidia...;)
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LMAO, now that has made me chuckle....

Ok first vote here ;)
 
Brent_Justice said:
TWIMTBP has nothing to do with this stuff. Take for instance EverQuest II. It's a TWIMTBP game, and it plays way smoother on the X800 cards.
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Aye, that point has been settled. Doesn't UT2k4 run better on x800 series aswell?
 
Brent_Justice said:
TWIMTBP has nothing to do with this stuff. Take for instance EverQuest II. It's a TWIMTBP game, and it plays way smoother on the X800 cards.
Click to expand...

Brent! Man, can you change my name from "[H]ard|Gawd" to "NV!!!!!!|pres"...pretty please?
 
Tigerblade said:
And in doing so cutting off alot of high end card users. Let alone all the higher FX, and countless 9500Pro upward users. I'm sure it wouldn't have been difficult to code PS2.0 into it :rolleyes:

I would guess that there are FAR more users out there that use PS2.0 cards over the 6800series. Doesn't make sense :confused:
Click to expand...

They didn't "cutt off" anyone. The game runs fine on those cards. It uses SM 1.1 mode and the only thing it lacks visual quality speaking is Soft Shadows, HDR (cause no ATI cards have FP 16 frame buffer blending) and Parallax Mapping.

Here is a post from the lead programmer of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory I think everyone should read.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9982
 
^eMpTy^ said:
the big deal is HDR...which isn't available on PS2.0 anyways...in a dark game like that...the difference between 1.4 and 2.0 is probably minimal...I've seen screenshots of the game already...aside from HDR...ps3.0 and ps1.4 don't look that much different...

have you looked at the screenshots?
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Haven't seen any shots no, shitty firewall at work will block em too :mad:

To be honest this game really holds no interest to me, it's the principle......

Altho, I *thought* the x800 line could *do* HDR?
 
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