MavericK
Zero Cool
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 31,901
He's against restrictive DRM, like the Ubisoft bullshit.
I would hardly call Steam restrictive. Plus, it's not Steam's fault that Bethesda didn't make the game LAA in the first place.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Skyrim without Steam?
- Thread starter TeeJayHoward
- Start date
He's against restrictive DRM, like the Ubisoft bullshit.
I would hardly call Steam restrictive. Plus, it's not Steam's fault that Bethesda didn't make the game LAA in the first place.
Having to load up and log into a client before you can run a lousy two-bit game is not restrictive?
Anyway, I have already been over this with a couple of mods here and as I pointed out then he was clearly saying he is against all DRM and not just Ubisoft type DRM.
Anyway, I have already been over this with a couple of mods here and as I pointed out then he was clearly saying he is against all DRM and not just Ubisoft type DRM.
you're just reading what you want to read, because you want to criticise. of course he's not against all drm, that would be absurd because it's a crucial part of their business. this should go without saying since I'm sure he would not assume people to be so retarded as to take that literally. how stupid would you have to be, you're not stupid are you?
Logging on steam literally takes seconds. Not sure where the butthurt is coming from.
Steam takes between 10-30 seconds to boot and log-on on my system, then skyrimlauncher takes another 15-20 seconds to start-up. Then another 10-15 seconds to boot the game and load a savegame, if I'm really quick to type in my load game name into the console as soon as it's ready to use.
So - with Steam: 35-65 seconds to game.
[I was happy with this until I realised I could run without Steam]Without Steam: 10-15 seconds from desktop to loaded savegame...
- that's the most awesome game load performance I've seen for *ages*
- better than Oblivion, Morrowind, Far Cry 2, Crysis 2, Crysis 1, UT3 or any Steam game. Unreal 1 singleplayer probably loads faster on my system.Anyway, I'll just have to see what I can do and can't do, and live with it.
Liqq
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2010
- Messages
- 493
Imagine if you had to run Origin to get this game to work. There would be some SERIOUS bitching here, just sayin'.
So why don't you just leave Steam running all the time then? That'll save you the initial 10-30 seconds (which is a broad range by the way). And then all you have is 30 seconds left to launch the game.
As far as I can tell, the answer to your question is no. Although I did read that there is a mod somewhere for 1.2 making the game LAA aware, but still using Steam. Works fine for me without it, so i didn't bother.
As far as I can tell, the answer to your question is no. Although I did read that there is a mod somewhere for 1.2 making the game LAA aware, but still using Steam. Works fine for me without it, so i didn't bother.
Fading Phoenix
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2006
- Messages
- 602
First off, I use Steam. I have more games on Steam than I do through any other service. I don't understand how anyone can realistically say it's not restrictive though.
- Forced updates.
- Forced to have Steam application running in background.
- And an offline mode that is a joke. This and to a lesser extent the forced updates are the two that really get to me. Seriously everyone always points out that it has an offline mode as it's great rescuer; but it's useless unless you know you're not going to have internet. Say I lose my internet for a short time, and I figure I'll try launching Steam to play some games, guess what-unless I logged into offline mode the last time I was online I'm screwed. In my opinion they tip-toe on the line of needing an always on internet too much to ridicule services like Ubisoft (which I do agree are worse)
Eh, I should have let it go, but I didn't. I guess it gets to me that everyone turns a blind eye to the reality of Steam when other distributers have and would take so much flack for including exactly the same "features".
I've also been upset that Skyrim is a Steamworks title, so that's part of it. Especially since with this title it would be both myself and my girlfriend playing it, and Steam makes that a pain. I'd been looking forward to the game, and was going to buy it on release; but the inclusion of Steam automatically devalues a game in my eye, so it's not worth full price. Now I'll have to decide if I want to buy it when it finally comes down to <$25.
Alas, the hard life of a gamer /sarcasm
- Forced updates.
- Forced to have Steam application running in background.
- And an offline mode that is a joke. This and to a lesser extent the forced updates are the two that really get to me. Seriously everyone always points out that it has an offline mode as it's great rescuer; but it's useless unless you know you're not going to have internet. Say I lose my internet for a short time, and I figure I'll try launching Steam to play some games, guess what-unless I logged into offline mode the last time I was online I'm screwed. In my opinion they tip-toe on the line of needing an always on internet too much to ridicule services like Ubisoft (which I do agree are worse)
Eh, I should have let it go, but I didn't. I guess it gets to me that everyone turns a blind eye to the reality of Steam when other distributers have and would take so much flack for including exactly the same "features".
I've also been upset that Skyrim is a Steamworks title, so that's part of it. Especially since with this title it would be both myself and my girlfriend playing it, and Steam makes that a pain. I'd been looking forward to the game, and was going to buy it on release; but the inclusion of Steam automatically devalues a game in my eye, so it's not worth full price. Now I'll have to decide if I want to buy it when it finally comes down to <$25.
Alas, the hard life of a gamer
/sarcasmI'm not sure forced updates is really Steam's fault. If the developer requires it as a condition of putting the game on their platform, there isn't really much they can do about it. Not saying that's the case, but I wouldn't hang that one totally on Valve/Steam.
you're doing it wrong. there exists a single checkbox (save user credentials locally) to have offline mode ready whenever you feel like it, not sure what convoluted process you took to stumble upon this but it's really not that hard. forced updates, again how hard is it to understand that valve has no control over 3rd party publishers, and whether or not they choose to allow you to play offline or without the latest version. if they don't force updates then you should have no problem sticking to whatever version you want.
and requiring the steam app to run while you're in the game, really? why do people keep on parroting this lame excuse over and over again, are you low on ram or what? would you rather have hidden rootkits and processes that run silently, or drm that tells you it's on?
the sad part of this complaint is that people have no idea all those other drms like safedisc, tages, securom etc all run their own processes in the background while you play your games, they just don't tell you about it. but apparently asking for a simple login is way worse than hidden processes and registry keys that can't be uninstalled, keeping you in the dark about all kinds of os functions they're fucking with every time you run a game.
just have it auto run on startup and leave the damn thing on if taking 10 seconds to log in is too much for you, honestly I'm not understanding how this is such a huge hassle.
Fading Phoenix
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2006
- Messages
- 602
I never complained about having the application running in the background, I merely listed it as a restrictive measure. I leave mine running all the time. Not everyone has the same priorities, or some potentially are limited on memory; and if they don't like that it's required than they honestly have the right to complain about it. This is seriously what gets me, with Steam it's always just "live with it".
From Steam Support
Using Offline Mode on a PC.
Please follow the instructions below to configure Offline Mode on your PC:
- <LI sizcache="23" nodeIndex="1">Start Steam online - make sure the Remember my password box on the login window is checked <LI sizcache="23" nodeIndex="2">Verify that all game files are completely updated - you can see the update status for a game under the Library section (when the game shows as 100% - Ready it is ready to be played in Offline Mode) <LI nodeIndex="3">Launch the game you would like to play offline to verify that there are no further updates to download - shut down the game and return to Steam once you have confirmed that the game can be played <LI sizcache="23" nodeIndex="4">Go to Steam > Settings to ensure the Don't save account credentials on this computer option is not selected <LI sizcache="23" nodeIndex="5">From the main Steam window, go to the Steam menu and select Go Offline
- Click Restart in Offline Mode to restart Steam in Offline Mode
Also, the only selection I know is the one mentioned above "Don't save account credentials on this computer" which if selected disables Offline Mode. Now, following all this. If I have Steam in Online mode and exit without entering Offline mode. Then if I disable my internet adapter so that I have no connection and try launching Steam again-it will not work. It has never worked for me unless I enter it into offline mode before exiting Steam. I'm not the only one who feels that Steams offline mode is a joke.
I don't have much experience with Tages, but have never had any issues personally with Securom. I understand there are those that have though. My only concern over Securom is that there are varying forms of it and it's never clear what version is used in any given game. However, if used in one of it's reasonable forms I do find Securom less restrictive than Steam and would prefer it.
Thank you for your very polite reply however.
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,003
Steam is not DRM. In fact, I have multiple PC's running copies of games I've purchased on Steam: I'm able to run them all and install them without a disc and most of them without a CD key (which steam gives you anyway). I can download and install Dirt 3 to any machine I choose: hell I can have it running on a few hundred machines, no need for a disc. In a way, Steam is the opposite of DRM.
it most certainly is drm, difference is it only does what drm is meant to do, which is to prevent people from exchanging licenses. that's why people like gabe newell spout all kinds contradicting bs to try and distance themselves from the more perverse forms of drm giving them a bad name. in reality it's all the same shit, but certain devs abusing the system ruin it for everyone else.
Digital Rights Management, look it up.
According to it any game you want to play in offline mode does need to be updated. Maybe it varies, but my experience has been that it does not.
Also, the only selection I know is the one mentioned above "Don't save account credentials on this computer" which if selected disables Offline Mode. Now, following all this. If I have Steam in Online mode and exit without entering Offline mode. Then if I disable my internet adapter so that I have no connection and try launching Steam again-it will not work. It has never worked for me unless I enter it into offline mode before exiting Steam. I'm not the only one who feels that Steams offline mode is a joke.
I don't have much experience with Tages, but have never had any issues personally with Securom. I understand there are those that have though. My only concern over Securom is that there are varying forms of it and it's never clear what version is used in any given game. However, if used in one of it's reasonable forms I do find Securom less restrictive than Steam and would prefer it.
Thank you for your very polite reply however.
this is meaningless without saying which game you're referring to. the base of your confusion lies in the fact that you're not understanding what steam actually is. it's possible that the steam game you're trying to play has 3 other layers of 3rd party drm, possibly not even implemented properly and not allowing you to play offline to begin with, which has absolutely nothing to do with steam.
the process you quoted above is exactly what I was talking about, it looks long and complicated because you for some reason copied a bunch of html with it, and they're trying to explain in detail what basically boils down to 1 step:
1. log in and run the game once
the whole point of this is to get you to update your client registry blob, this is where your library authentication is stored, and has to be updated once for every new game you download. from then on it all depends on what features this particular game has. I've never had any trouble running a game offline, when it can be done in the first place.
Try playing the same game on more than one machine at the same time, and get back to us.
Fading Phoenix
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2006
- Messages
- 602
I got that, I'm not confused and I'm not saying it looks long and complicated, but I appreciate you trying to "dumb it down" for me. My issue is not with any game, it's with Steam. If you read the main point of my last post again (though I looked at ait again and somehow the instructions I copied from the Steam support page got screwed up) you'd realize I never said I couldn't launch any specific game, I said I couldn't launch Steam. If I kill my internet without first entering Steam into offline mode I am unable to launch Steam.
I did say that my experience with offline mode has required the game to be completely up to date before playing it, which may be leading to your own confusion but is a completely seperate issue. I may also be wrong on that whole point. As I said, my experience has shown that to be true, but it is limited experience as I just leave autoupdate on anymore. I know that a long time ago I've had Steam stop me from playing a game/games in offline mode (that I had played previously in offline mode) because an update was detected for it the last time I was logged in online. Maybe it was an odd case, maybe it was the specific games I tried playing, I don't know.
I did not mean to derail this thread at all, and I don't check hardforum frequently enough to actually keep up a conversation about it. I'm not the only one who thinks Steams offline mode is a joke though. It's simply unreliable.
Maybe you should stop stealing games? If you wanted to play on two computers at the same time, buy two copies?
CrimsonKnight13
Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2008
- Messages
- 8,439
Wouldn't offline mode on one system alleviate this issue with one copy?
I strongly disagree with this statement. I've actually successfully had friends purchase games after they'd played it on one of my computers. This happened with Age of Empires 3, Supreme Commander, Magicka, and LoL. I'm supporting the developers by purchasing it, why should they care if I install it on 4 of my own computers and have friends come over once a month to play? The friends end up liking the game and buy it themselves.
The terms in the licenses that restrict installs to one computer never consider folks like me who actually have LAN parties with my own computers.
oh well. long live the free-to-play games like League of Legends. No DRM issues with those.
Where did anyone say anything about stealing games? The guy I quoted said that Steam isn't DRM, when it clearly is - and the proof is that you can't play the same game at the same time on two different computers, which is pretty much the exact definition of DRM.
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 7,594
Actually the restriction is not isolated to playing multiple instances of the same game. The main DRM issue would be technically you cannot play different games on the same account simultaneously. There are workarounds of course, especially for singleplayer, but that exists for any DRM solution. Essentially every game linked to an account basically shares 1 license that can be accessed simultaneously.
This is a actually a pretty big restriction compared to what consumers traditionally accepted, in that each game is its own separate license.
This is a actually a pretty big restriction compared to what consumers traditionally accepted, in that each game is its own separate license.
Okay, so here I am, back again.
From my own experimentation:
If I update Skyrim to the latest 1.3.10.0 - then copy over TESV.exe from 1.1.21.0 - then I can still launch Skyrim without Steam ... in the help menu it states version 1.1.21.0 - I guess it takes it from the TESV.exe file ... I'm wondering if *all* of the updates, corrections and optimisations in the update are therefore foregone by me (i.e. I miss out on them) or whether it's only some (I presume the large address aware thing really needs me to use the latest TESV.exe).
Well, we'll see if I can keep this up after the Creation Kit is released - I definitely want to play with that, though I've never achieved anything with it since the Morrowind days. So I'll take any forced Steam compromises to be able to use the Creation Kit ... nice to know I can still create a Skyrim install that doesn't require Steam, though.
Hope y'all iz having funz.
From my own experimentation:
If I update Skyrim to the latest 1.3.10.0 - then copy over TESV.exe from 1.1.21.0 - then I can still launch Skyrim without Steam ... in the help menu it states version 1.1.21.0 - I guess it takes it from the TESV.exe file ... I'm wondering if *all* of the updates, corrections and optimisations in the update are therefore foregone by me (i.e. I miss out on them) or whether it's only some (I presume the large address aware thing really needs me to use the latest TESV.exe).
Well, we'll see if I can keep this up after the Creation Kit is released - I definitely want to play with that, though I've never achieved anything with it since the Morrowind days. So I'll take any forced Steam compromises to be able to use the Creation Kit ... nice to know I can still create a Skyrim install that doesn't require Steam, though.
Hope y'all iz having funz.
Last edited:
Has everyone long since given up on this?!
Well, I've just updated my experimental install of Skyrim (on my laptop) to 1.4.21.0 and of course, the TESV.exe file launches Steam and SkyrimLauncher if you click it directly. But I can still retain and use my 1.1.21.0 TESV.exe file in the game folder, renaming it to keep both versions side-by-side and it's still running the game successfully without launching Steam.
Well, on my (weak GPU) laptop, I don't play for very long, so I don't know if file renaming or version conflicts will arise later, but so far it doesn't seem so. I'm ready to backup and then update my main install of Skyrim now. Whee!
Well, I've just updated my experimental install of Skyrim (on my laptop) to 1.4.21.0 and of course, the TESV.exe file launches Steam and SkyrimLauncher if you click it directly. But I can still retain and use my 1.1.21.0 TESV.exe file in the game folder, renaming it to keep both versions side-by-side and it's still running the game successfully without launching Steam.
Well, on my (weak GPU) laptop, I don't play for very long, so I don't know if file renaming or version conflicts will arise later, but so far it doesn't seem so. I'm ready to backup and then update my main install of Skyrim now. Whee!
I think most people just run Steam whenever they're gaming anyway, so trying to figure out ways around Steam is more effort than just running Steam... or getting a crack
D
Deleted member 88227
Guest
I think most people just run Steam whenever they're gaming anyway, so trying to figure out ways around Steam is more effort than just running Steam... or getting a crack
This.
Steam stays running when my computer is running. Which is the reason why I refuse to migrate to (or use in conjunction with) another service that does what Steam (Origin) does. I don't want all those programs running while I am gaming and force closing them is annoying. (Hence why I never bother to close Steam)
Therefore, I think it's dumb for developers/publishers (including Valve) to restrict games strictly to one service. I also hate that Steam is part of Valve, in a way I wish Steam was a company on their own.
I think most people just run Steam whenever they're gaming anyway, so trying to figure out ways around Steam is more effort than just running Steam... or getting a crack
People still use Steam?
I only use Origin now.