Skulltrail and X48 . . .w00t

[ND40oz]

Since they have a $10,750.00 Quadro Plex SLi system for sale that you can pick Intel P4, Xeon or "higher" Processors or AMD Opteron format.
http://store.nvidia.com/servlet/Con...dia&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=89884400# Check the Tech Specs tab on this page.

I'd say they support SLi on the Intel workstation chipsets.

That's a seperate box though, it's not like you're throwing two cards in a system and getting them to work. I have two FX4500s running on a 5000x based workstation, it works. But they use a riser with the nVidia switch chip that was also used in the 7900GX2. Theoretically, I've heard quadro's work in SLI on intel chipsets, haven't seen it done in practice though. I'll gladly test them on any of these boards as soon as I can decide on which one to get...

 

[Dan_D]

I'm thinking Quadro FX 5600 cards or something like that in SLI on Intel workstation chipsets.

 

[rodsfree]

That's a seperate box though, it's not like you're throwing two cards in a system and getting them to work. I have two FX4500s running on a 5000x based workstation, it works. But they use a riser with the nVidia switch chip that was also used in the 7900GX2. Theoretically, I've heard quadro's work in SLI on intel chipsets, haven't seen it done in practice though. I'll gladly test them on any of these boards as soon as I can decide on which one to get...

Two NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 GPUs
One NVIDIA Quadro G-Sync board
Up to 4 Channels
64X SLI FSAA (max on single channel)
Deployed with any NVIDIA-certified PCI Express platform
NVIDIA® SLI™ multi-GPU technology to scale graphics computing
Multiple NVIDIA Quadro Plex VCSs can be combined using the NVIDIA Quadro G-Sync to further scale performance, quality, and channels

Unless I'm missing something, this basically says Quad SLi - that 4 channel line there. You'd have to support more than one card with 2 GPU's to get that in one box and I love the "64X Sli FSAA" spec.

 

[rodsfree]

I'm thinking Quadro FX 5600 cards or something like that in SLI on Intel workstation chipsets.

That would be a LOT of money!

 

[ND40oz]

Unless I'm missing something, this basically says Quad SLi - that 4 channel line there. You'd have to support more than one card with 2 GPU's to get that in one box and I love the "64X Sli FSAA" spec.

It's a separate box, it's not like your just sticking two cards in your existing workstation. You can use two of them in/on an SLI certified system, but if your on a non-SLI system, only one will work. From what I've seen, it's like an external 7950GX2, that takes up one of your PCIe x16 slots for the internal interface.

 

[Dan_D]

That would be a LOT of money!

Well this is theoretical. I wouldn't actually build something like that for myself.

 

[rodsfree]

Well this is theoretical. I wouldn't actually build something like that for myself.

And that's why you are only running 3 8800GTX's and a 4x RAID0 of 150GB Raptors????

I think that I know who, between the 2 of us, spends more on computer hardware.
Do you get to to deduct any of this on your taxes???

If so, KYLE I NEED A JOB!!!

 

[Simpson5774]

I don't know if this was stated in the previous pages, but I thought skulltrail was supposd to have 6 memory slots for triple channel.

If they switched the location of the FSB and the memory slots, they could put in another pci/pciE slot so they could have 4 double spaced pciE 16x slots.

My guess is the chips on the bottom of the motherboard are to provide extra pciE lanes because x48 only has 2 16x slots max, and I believe all 4 of these slots are supposd to be 16x.

As much as nivdia would like to get hardcore licensing fees for their SLi tech, they can't miss an opportunity to get their product enabled on something such as this.

I don't know, but it looks like to me that skulltrail only has 1 1600mhz FSB, where their 2s xeon counterparts have 2 front side buses, which makes no sense why intel wouldn't include it here.

 

[Dan_D]

And that's why you are only running 3 8800GTX's and a 4x RAID0 of 150GB Raptors????

I think that I know who, between the 2 of us, spends more on computer hardware.
Do you get to to deduct any of this on your taxes???

If so, KYLE I NEED A JOB!!!

I don't know shit about taxes so I have no idea.

 

[rodsfree]

I don't know if this was stated in the previous pages, but I thought skulltrail was supposd to have 6 memory slots for triple channel.

If they switched the location of the FSB and the memory slots, they could put in another pci/pciE slot so they could have 4 double spaced pciE 16x slots.

My guess is the chips on the bottom of the motherboard are to provide extra pciE lanes because x48 only has 2 16x slots max, and I believe all 4 of these slots are supposd to be 16x.

As much as nivdia would like to get hardcore licensing fees for their SLi tech, they can't miss an opportunity to get their product enabled on something such as this.

I don't know, but it looks like to me that skulltrail only has 1 1600mhz FSB, where their 2s xeon counterparts have 2 front side buses, which makes no sense why intel wouldn't include it here.

The Chipset is the Workstation/Server Chipset, not the X48.
X48 is the PC Chipset that requires DDR3 and not DDR2 FB-DIMMS like the SkullTrail and the Workstation/Server Chipsets do. Also, the X48 will not allow 2 cpu's on the same motherboard.

 

[Simpson5774]

The Chipset is the Workstation/Server Chipset, not the X48.
X48 is the PC Chipset that requires DDR3 and not DDR2 FB-DIMMS like the SkullTrail and the Workstation/Server Chipsets do. Also, the X48 will not allow 2 cpu's on the same motherboard.

Uh yes I know this.....

X48 is im betting you identical to that server boards FSB except for 2 or 3 key differences. SMP support, FB memory support, pciX support, and possibly serial attached SCSI support.

But I nowhere said X48 == skulltrail.

 

[Dan_D]

Uh yes I know this.....

X48 is im betting you identical to that server boards FSB except for 2 or 3 key differences. SMP support, FB memory support, pciX support, and possibly serial attached SCSI support.

But I nowhere said X48 == skulltrail.

I don't think serial attached SCSI support is done on a chipset level but rather as an add-on component integrated into the board.

 

[ND40oz]

I don't think serial attached SCSI support is done on a chipset level but rather as an add-on component integrated into the board.

Yeah, usually an LSA or perc chip depending on the board, my 5000X has a the Perc 5i adding SAS support.

I really doubt X48 is that close to 5400 (seaburg), 5400 is just the evolution of the 5000 series chipset adding support for DDR2 6400 FB-Dimms, more PCIe lanes, PCIe 2.0 and support higher FSB support for the newer 45nm chips. Other then that, the feature sets are the same.

 

[Dan_D]

Yeah, usually an LSA or perc chip depending on the board, my 5000X has a the Perc 5i adding SAS support.

I really doubt X48 is that close to 5400 (seaburg), 5400 is just the evolution of the 5000 series chipset adding support for DDR2 6400 FB-Dimms, more PCIe lanes, PCIe 2.0 and support higher FSB support for the newer 45nm chips. Other then that, the feature sets are the same.

Well the Seaburg chipset probably has little to nothing to do with the desktop chips. It might have serial attached SCSI support on a chipset level. It could as the Seaburg doesn't seem to use the same south bridge as the desktop chipsets do.

A typical 5400 series "Seaburg" chipset based board will have the following chips included on the board as part of the "chipset".

Intel® 5400 Memory Controller Hub (MCH) chipset 1520 Flip Chip-Ball Grid Array (FC-BGA)
Intel® 6700PXH 64-bit PCI Hub 567 Flip Chip-Ball Grid Array (FC-BGA)
Intel® 632xESB I/O Controller Hub 1284 Flip Chip - Ball Grid Array (PBGA)

Typical X38 motherboards will have the following:

Intel® 82X38 Memory Controller Hub 1300 Flip Chip Ball Grid Array (FCBGA)
Intel® 82801IR Serial ATA AHCI controller hub (ICH9R) (mBGA)

After checking out the specifications the two south bridges are VERY different. The one normally attached to the 5400 chipset does not support Serial Attached SCSI and supports AHCI/SATA specifications only. Interestingly enough it appears to support IDE control registers. Meaning that the 632xESB I/O Controller Hub actually supports IDE. The ICH9R does not. The two also have different packages so as stated before they are very different. From what I can see the ICH9R is actually a newer design.

 

[trudude]

I really would like to see X48 boards with built in nVidia MCP chips so we can have stable SLi support. That would be awesome although I am pretty sure that nVidia knows that noone would buy a 780i or 790i board if they could have the best of both worlds (Intel chipset + SLi).

 

[Dan_D]

I really would like to see X48 boards with built in nVidia MCP chips so we can have stable SLi support. That would be awesome although I am pretty sure that nVidia knows that noone would buy a 780i or 790i board if they could have the best of both worlds (Intel chipset + SLi).

That is why NVIDIA will never do it. Without SLI no one would have any reason to purchase a board based on their chipsets. At least not in regard to high end motherboard chipsets.

 

[trudude]

That is why NVIDIA will never do it. Without SLI no one would have any reason to purchase a board based on their chipsets. At least not in regard to high end motherboard chipsets.

Dan I know you'd be bound by a NDA and all, but do you have any idea as to whether or not the 790i is a new chipset and not just a rehashed 680i like the 780i is? Reason I ask is simply because the 680i was a nightmare for me and I would love to go SLi, but I refuse to deal with the list of issues that comes with 680i and 780i boards.

 

[Dan_D]

Dan I know you'd be bound by a NDA and all, but do you have any idea as to whether or not the 790i is a new chipset and not just a rehashed 680i like the 780i is? Reason I ask is simply because the 680i was a nightmare for me and I would love to go SLi, but I refuse to deal with the list of issues that comes with 680i and 780i boards.

Well the NDA doesn't apply in this case because I don't know anything official on the subject. I can't even attest to the existance of the 790i SLI chipset. All I can say for sure is that it probably exists as the existence of the Striker II Extreme seems to have been confirmed on ASUS' website. Though the links to it are now gone from what I understand. I couldn't find them when I tried searching on their site. Global or US. In any case from what I know about north bridge design I can say somethings with a high probability of accuracy. If the 790i SLI chipset indeed supports DDR3 memory it will almost have to be new chipset entirely. More than likely it will continue to use the same south bridge the 680i and 780i SLI chipsets use.

Since the NVIDIA MCPs have built in memory controllers the memory controller will have to be redesigned and respun. So most likely it will be a new chipset. Though it may be possible to add another chip to the mix for DDR3 compatibility. It would probably have to translate DDR3 signals into DDR2 signals to interface with the standard 780i SLI MCP. Let's hope that NVIDIA opts to redesign the chipset entirely vs. taking that approach. Such attempts in the past have generally yielded poor results. Even when Intel did it on the i820 chipset. It converted SDRAM signals to RDRAM signals in order to provide SDRAM compatibility as a low cost alternative to supporting RDRAM. The MTH chip responsible for that translation was recalled for very valid reasons. If NVIDIA is introducing a new DDR3 compatible chipset and calling it the 790i SLI then most likely all they had to do was re-design the memory controller and they were able to re-use much of the original 680i SLI MCP design.

 

[Simpson5774]

Someone put the words into my mouth somehow saying I compared X48 to seaburg when all I said was x48 can do 2 x16 pciE slots, they probibly needed the two nvidia MCPs to make the board have 4 x16 slots and be able to 16x mode.

So then someone comes and says skulltrail =! x48 which was pretty freakin obvious, but I decided to state how they are pretty much the same chip while its being used for different purposes.

Anyways,

I believe the ONLY difference between 780i and 790i is DDR3 support, nvidia is just nice enough to make the designation between the two boards unlike intel (p35 and x38 can be used ether way).

People seem to be more harsh on nvidia than their is reason for. The problems nvidia has with their chipsets are related to the southbridges that they use and the problems they have with hard drive corruption and other issues associated with the southbridge.

I think the best combination is a nvidia 680/780 northbridge + ICH9R + the nforce 200 chip (the pciE 2.0 bridge on 780i), but that will never happen.

 

[Dan_D]

Someone put the words into my mouth somehow saying I compared X48 to seaburg when all I said was x48 can do 2 x16 pciE slots, they probibly needed the two nvidia MCPs to make the board have 4 x16 slots and be able to 16x mode.

Quite possibly.

So then someone comes and says skulltrail =! x48 which was pretty freakin obvious, but I decided to state how they are pretty much the same chip while its being used for different purposes.

They aren't remotely in the same ballpark. In fact they aren't even the same sport. The chips are different. Very different. All they share is some features. Nothing more. Seaburg actually uses an older south bridge design than X48 does. Seaburg also has a third chip in the set that X48 does not have. Seaburg has PCI-X support, SMP support FB-DIMM support and other things. The two are not even closely related. The memory controllers are totally different.

Anyways,

I believe the ONLY difference between 780i and 790i is DDR3 support, nvidia is just nice enough to make the designation between the two boards unlike intel (p35 and x38 can be used ether way).

People seem to be more harsh on nvidia than their is reason for. The problems nvidia has with their chipsets are related to the southbridges that they use and the problems they have with hard drive corruption and other issues associated with the southbridge.

I think the best combination is a nvidia 680/780 northbridge + ICH9R + the nforce 200 chip (the pciE 2.0 bridge on 780i), but that will never happen.

After the reference board BIOS versions were upgraded to P23 and P24 the SATA corruption issues were gone. I've had a dozen 680i SLI boards and none of them had the SATA corruption issue after the BIOS fix. No other 680i SLI system I've built has had the problem nor have any of the 680i SLI based systems friends of mine own. I also rarely read about issues concerning that either. Certainly I've read nothing new suggesting that such problems are still regular occurences. At present the 680i SLI's south bridge is rather mature. So I've got to disagree with you. That is NOT the worst part of the 680i SLI chipset based boards. I'd wager anything it is the north bridge that labotomizes itself, fries memory modules due to poor voltage regulation or simply raises its' own temperature 30C prior to burning out for no discernable reason that is the problem with the 680i SLI chipset. Or how about the boards that integrate it? Sub-standard voltage regulation is among the largest flaws of those reference boards. That is plainly evident monitoring their voltages.

The reason people are harsh in regard to the NVIDIA chipset is because it is less reliable and slower than their Intel counterparts and if it weren't for SLI support forcing several of us to buy these things in order to have the fastest graphics card combination money can buy, we wouldn't waste our time with high end NVIDIA chipset based boards at all. Infact I can almost guarantee most of us would be running X38 based boards instead. Many people dump the 680i SLI motherboards and their second video cards just to get systems that work reliably. They do this because they are sick of fried memory and boards that won't live beyond two or three months. Let me tell you they aren't dumping the 680i SLI because of south bridge related problems either.

We also don't know the real differences between the 780i SLI chipset and the 790i SLI. NVIDIA has said NOTHING official concerning it as far as I know. NVIDIA wouldn't be doing a smarter thing seperating 780i SLI from 790i SLI. The reason they'd have to is because the memory controller in the aging 680i SLI silicon is only capable of DDR2 support. Rehashing the 680i SLI and reusing it is easier than designing a new chipset that supports two types of memory modules. The P35 and X38 boards are capable of either. It is up to the motherboard manufacturer to decide which memory will be supported on the board. So the board makers need only buy one P35 chipset and one X38 chipset part number(s) in order to build DDR2 and DDR3 boards. With NVIDIA it isn't an option.

 

[Renegade5399]

Many people dump the 680i SLI motherboards and their second video cards just to get systems that work reliably. They do this because they are sick of fried memory and boards that won't live beyond two or three months. Let me tell you they aren't dumping the 680i SLI because of south bridge related problems either.

Exactly why I went with my Maximus Formula. You hit it right on the head.