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Simple Amp

I have one of the Pyle amplifiers and I would give them a 7 outta 10. The audio quality isn't that great once you get to normal listening levels for outside or a den setup, at least w/ my higher end speakers outdoors. So it will power your speakers alright, but quality definitely isn't there, and the adjustment for treble/bass do not help much if at all w/ quality. I am pretty picky with my sound, might call me an audiophile.

If you do not need the headphone jack I would highly recommend this one instead for about the same price. I would rate this one 10/10 for the price, I bought it to replace the Pyle amplifier I had and I was completely satisfied with the AudioSource AMP-100 amplifier. It has way more power, and the quality is as close as my Harman Kardon AVR 247 even despite the fact that I have no bass/treble control.

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-A...BQJ6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287639640&sr=8-3

If you want my Pyle PCA3 2x75W amplifier it is very close to the same one you listed minus the headphone jack, I will let it go for $42 shipped. It was used 1 week and is just sitting here now as it was replaced because audio quality wasn't up to my high standards.
 
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96redformula said:
I am pretty picky with my sound, might call me an audiophile.
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I think I am also, and i am just figuring this out. Maybe you can help me out. I am trying to stay on a budget and get great sound quality through my pc's spdif. I am also wanting to hook my desk tv up to it for when I play games.

I need a reciever that has great sound quality but is on the cheap.

I am also looking into these speakers.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&vReviewShow=1

So maybe you can lean me in the right direction
 
Er... Pyle is junk on the same level as Pyramid, Boss, American Legacy, Bazooka, etc. Never buy their crap. You'll be lucky to get half of the rated power, and they are unreliable.
 
dandragonrage said:
...You'll be lucky to get half of the rated power...
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this... you're not getting a clean 120wpc rms out of that amp

why not just get a computer speaker set like the klipsch promedia 2.1?

or should i assume you already have nice speakers/sub and you are just trying to drive them?
 
I disagree with the PC speakers recommendation and I have had the Klipsch 2.1 THX set in the past. Awful sounding, IMO. But for a desk, even one of the cheap Chinese TA2020 amps on Ebay will be fine. You hardly need any power for nearfield. And while it is possible to screw up a Class D amplifier, most of the work was done by Tripath, so other than a bad PCB design that causes noise, you're not going to get too bad a product. Certainly no lower quality than Pyle, and it will be smaller and more efficient and probably pretty close in power capability. If you want good power then go for a TK2050-based amp.
 
I am starting clean. I am now thinking onkyo reciever. Just I would like something that is smaller
 
Don't go for Onkyo... they're space heaters more than receivers. Way less efficient than other brands. Though they beat the crap out of Pyle.
 
For nearfield desktop listening, I suggest the Pyle PTA1. It's a lot more compact and a lot more simpler. There's also a switch to go back and forth between two different sources.

I use that along with some cheap Dayton B652 speakers for a budget setup and it sounds surprisingly ok. It does start to distort if you try and really pump the volume super loud. I don't know how much that is due to the cheap amp or the cheap speakers. I never bothered to go through the trouble of hooking up decent speakers to this thing, so I don't know. But at normal to slightly louder than normal listening levels, it's fine.

I should note the exterior build quality on the Pyle is surprisingly good and solid. Kinda surprising to me when I got it when Pyle has the moniker of being a "Pyle of crap." :)
 
So I have the chance to get a Sony kg700 for $20
Should I pull the trigger?

It is 800 watt has 1optical/1coax 3 analog.

I plan to pair it with some daytons, and maybe a sub.
 
Sony speakers are junk. B652s are the best you'll get for ultra cheap unless you find some good deal on Ebay/Craigslist/Audiogon/etc. They're still not good, but they are great for $30.
 
For $100, you might be able to find Paradigm Atoms or Titans. There are lots of brands that you may be able to find and it's personal preference.
 
dandragonrage said:
Don't go for Onkyo... they're space heaters more than receivers. Way less efficient than other brands. Though they beat the crap out of Pyle.
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I should note that is not necessarily a bad thing. Efficiency, in terms of electrical or thermal efficiency, in an amp is not a mark of quality. Doesn't mean it is a bad thing to have, if you can, but doesn't mean that it makes a good amp.

The reason is that for a Class AB amp to sound good, you need to bias an amp in to Class A for part of its range. Doing that means having current always flowing. Generally speaking more bias is better for sound, it just uses more power.

So an amp that puts out more heat isn't necessarily bad.

Now there are some things you can do about that, if higher quality components are used with tighter tolerances you can often get away with less bias and still get good sound. All well and good but that costs a lot of money so it isn't like you can say "They should just do that." I own such an amp, has great sound, runs fairly cool, etc. Cost me like $500 for 2x70 watts. That being the case I can't begrudge my Denon receiver which runs hotter since it has 7 channels, more power, and only cost about $1000.

There is, of course, Class D amps with are extremely efficient, especially with switching powersupplies. They can give off little heat. However for now, it is pretty hard to get them high quality, with a good amount of output. They are great when you don't need a lot of power, and can put up with a touch of distortion in the high end (not much really, it isn't a big deal) but they aren't there for general use.

A cheap, but good sounding, amp is probably going to be a Class AB with a bit of bias on it and will generate a bit of heat for it. There's a reason that they are still used in so many receivers. If Class D was better and cheaper, all the makers would jump on it as they will take anything that brings cost and size down without screwing up sales. It just isn't there yet, for mainstream applications.
 
No... it's not hard to get them in high quality. They measure a little differently than AB, but show me a single instance of a public double-blind ABX test that can tell them apart from even "the best" class AB amp.

Class D is better. Period. It's just not cheaper, which is why it hasn't caught on.
 
dandragonrage said:
No... it's not hard to get them in high quality. They measure a little differently than AB, but show me a single instance of a public double-blind ABX test that can tell them apart from even "the best" class AB amp.

Class D is better. Period. It's just not cheaper, which is why it hasn't caught on.
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Let's not start the whole "show me an ABX test" argument....

Class D is not better "period"; it generally comes with a lot of baggage that has to be filtered or compensated for before you can use the output. Tripath makes it easier since it's basically a Class D amp on a chip, but to say it's better overall is misleading.

Seriously though, a Class D amp is essentially a PWM circuit....
 
I am aware of what Class D is and how it works. It is harder to design correctly but there are many great implementations of it available and they are better than AB. They do not sound any different at all to the human ear and they are far more efficient, making them better. My favorite Class D is Hypex UcD.
 
i like tripath amps alot.i recently put together a tripath amp.from a amp module off of ebay.the main thing i like about these is.number 1 sound quality they do produce audiphile sound quality without doubt.2 alot more people can afford these.if everyone had the money it takes to buy mac and krell equipment.the arguement for either side wouldnt even exist.however on this thread the op is stating a fairly low budget.so i think recommending the lower cost products of good quality is the way to go here.
 
pharoah said:
i like tripath amps alot.i recently put together a tripath amp.from a amp module off of ebay.the main thing i like about these is.number 1 sound quality they do produce audiphile sound quality without doubt.2 alot more people can afford these.if everyone had the money it takes to buy mac and krell equipment.the arguement for either side wouldnt even exist.however on this thread the op is stating a fairly low budget.so i think recommending the lower cost products of good quality is the way to go here.
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Oh definitely agree that recommending the lower cost products that are of decent quality is the way to go. It was the notion that Class D is better than everything else, period that got me. Lets just say there are different schools of thought out there :)
 
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dandragonrage said:
Class D is better. Period. It's just not cheaper, which is why it hasn't caught on.
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No not so much. Better for efficiency for sure. Also some designs can be quite cheap. BASH subwoofer amps are Class D and nice and cheap. However better in terms of sound quality? No. They are good, but a good Class AB (or A) is better.

I mean ask yourself: If Class D was so much better, why would Rotel make Class AB amps still? High price isn't an issue for them, their gear costs a lot, and their Class D amps are much smaller and cooler than their AB. Price is similar too a RB-1562 (Class D) costs you maybe $800. An RB-1552 (Class AB) which is of similar power? $900. The AB amp actually costs more due to the need for a larger transformer and so on to develop the same kind of power.

However, it does have some advantages. It has a lower noise floor, and better damping factor (meaning the amount of control it can exert over speakers). Also it has a wider frequency response. Doesn't matter at the high end, you are already way past audibility never mind speaker capability, but at the low end it makes a bit of difference. The RB-1562 is rolling off a bit in the audible range, and shifting phase a bit as comes with that. The RB-1552 is not it is almost razor flat down to 4Hz, way below useful. Finally the RB-1562 has more high order distortion, which is less pleasant to listen to. Both have very low distortion over all so not a big deal, but still.

It is simply the case that Class D amps don't do quite as well as AB amps, particularly at the same price point.

However none of this is really relevant to the original point: You can get cheap Class D amps that are pretty damn good, but don't have a lot of output. 10wpc or less type things. You can also get Class D amps that are good and have lots of output, but the cost a ton. You cannot get cheap Class D amps that have good output and good sound yet.

So if you've got Rotel kind of money, you can choose Class D or AB and be happy either way. I'd have no reservations about using either one. Or if you only need a small amount of power, 5-10 watts per channel or so, you can get something like the famous "t-amp" which is cheap and good, just not powerful.

However if you have only a couple hundred to spend and you need 50+ watts per channel, and may more than two channels, you aren't getting Class D.

My point was that in terms of AB amps, which is what he'll be getting, less heat doesn't mean better necessarily. Onkyo and Denon both have reputations for having hot receivers, well deserved I might add. However they also have reputations for good sounding receivers, also well deserved.
 
TK2050 amps are about 100W/ch and not expensive.

Also, you make the mistake of thinking that expensive amps are good just because they're expensive. They aren't BAD, but keep in mind those brands sell to people that think that an amplifier is no good if it doesn't weigh at least a hundred pounds. Also, Rotel DOES have some Class D stuff (using Icepower, I believe). Also, you mention a bunch of crap like damping factor which has never been proven to have ANY effect on sound quality whatsoever.

I wonder if the RC Amp Challenge is still around... because you should give it a whirl if you think Class D sounds so much different.
 
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one thing id like to add is.how much power do you really need?i have some fairly efficient klipsch bookshelf speakers,and a set of the rat shack with the linaeum tweeters.my ta 2024 based amp can play loud enough with either set to cause hearing loss.
 
dandragonrage said:
Also, you mention a bunch of crap like damping factor which has never been proven to have ANY effect on sound quality whatsoever.
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You should work to make sure your sweeping generalizations are correct or at least word it with limitations. I can think of at least two instances where damping factor (which is a function of the source impedance and the load impedance) has an effect on sound quality. Tube amps and long cables.

Tube amps generally have high output impedances and if they are driving a low impedance speaker/driver then the frequency response WILL change. Another instance would be in the pro audio world where long cables are the norm. In that instance the cable usually will dominate the damping factor; if that isn't corrected or compensated for then the frequency response will suffer as well.

I will admit that damping factor as a specification isn't terribly useful for judging amplification quality, as it's very easy to modify a circuit so it measures a very low output impedance and hence a very high damping factor.

In the typical home audio setup it's very likely that damping factor won't have any effect as most amps are solid state with low output impedance and they are driving typical speakers with a moderate impedance, but to say that "damping factor has never been proven to have any effect on sound quality" is far too general of a statement to make.

I understand you're fairly passionate about your opinions, but let's be more careful with the sweeping generalizations :)


steve_huck513: Connect the red and black terminals on the respective speaker to the red and black terminals on the receiver; if there is an A and B, use the A portion (or read the manual, sometimes the defaults vary by manufacturer)
 
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