Shuttle: Intel v AMD

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kumquat

Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm building a budget SFF for my GF.

I'm trying to decide between building a Shuttle SA76G2 with an Athlon II X2 250 or a Shuttle SG41J1-VPH with a Pentium DC E6500.

Experience/recommendations are requested. CPU upgrades are as well.
 
Most often than not, Shuttle brand should be automatically eliminated from the talks of a budget SFF build.

You are better off getting a SG07 or a PC-Q08.
 
Why? I've known people who have had Shuttles in the past and they've been very happy with them.
 
kumquat said:
Why? I've known people who have had Shuttles in the past and they've been very happy with them.
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Uses nonstandard parts for most desgins, so if/when pieces fail, you have to go through Shuttle, or buy a new one. Also, no tangible price benefit over using, say, a


SG05 or SG06
Gigabyte H55n-usb3
4GB DDR3
i3 CPU
Decent quality 300W PSU that comes with the SG05/SG06(a FSP source, but better than most/all FSP PSU....)
USB WiFi solution
Laptop DVD drive
Normal 3.5" and/or 2.5" drive (yep, can use both at the same time:p)


Nor is the Shuttle smaller.
 
Well the Shuttle does have advantages over that setup. Integrated/combined heat pipe setup, regular optical drive vs slim, 3.5" bay for a media card reader. I see the advantage of having more standardized parts, but the media card reader and optical drive are more important to me.

Besides the obvious, is there really some reason I'm missing to avoid Shuttle? And does anyone have any opinion of the setups in the OP?
 
I am not going to enter the debate between going Shuttle or build. I am going to point out that this forum gets LOTS of Shuttle owners with problems that require Shuttle parts. Some have gone as far as to remove the Shuttle stuff and convert to ITX, which they will tell you is not easy or cheap. If you have decided on a Shuttle (sounds like you have) and just trying to decide AMD or Intel, just pick which ever one you like. If you want input on a build, just ask.
 
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IMO the only reason to get a Shuttle is because you like the look of the case. That is all.

I personally love the look of the Shuttle G5 cases (and similar ones like the H7). I have a SD11G5 that was my primary system until very recently. (Now I've reboxed it in black and use it as an HTPC.) I have also gone so far as to buy an empty G5 case and mod it for a standard ITX motherboard (build log at SPCR).

My SD11G5 broke not once, but twice. Most likely bad caps on the motherboard, but who knows. I sent it back to Shuttle for out-of-warranty service twice. Each repair cost me around $100, which means I've spent $200+ just to keep an old Pentium M running. Note that $200 can get you a decent modern ITX mobo + CPU. That's why I will only use ITX for future builds.

I know that Shuttle claims the J series is ITX compatible, but you should not buy it expecting to be able to upgrade the motherboard. You will have trouble fitting it around the PSU and figuring out what to do about the CPU cooler.

I don't think you get the integrated ICE cooler on the J1, which may or may not be a bad thing. I like the ICE cooler but it is a major obstacle in converting a Shuttle for ITX use.

Slimline DVD-RW drives are quite cheap so I do not see any major disadvantage there. Blu-Ray may be more expensive; I have not checked. Many people use external drives now, which have the advantage that you can move it around to your laptops and other PCs as needed.

Funny you should mention the card reader; it was intended as an option in the SG05 (it's mentioned somewhere in the huge SG05 thread) but I guess it got pulled. The cutout is still there on the inside of the case.

My advice is to show your gf a couple of Shuttle/ITX cases and see what she likes. I think the front face of the G2 is cluttered and I'm not a fan of the J1 either. J2 and J3 are okay but G5 and H7 are still my favorites, partly because of the 3.5" external drive bay that can be used for all kinds of goodies.

I'm also tired of black cases, but apparently I'm the only one. The SG05 is available in white and the SG06 is available in silver. I built aWhite SG05 with Pink LED Fan for my sister ( writeup/pics at SPCR), and she likes it quite a bit. It is fast, very quiet, and eye-pleasing (to her eye). The Asus board is really good for her because it has Bluetooth, 802.11n wifi, USB 3, HDMI, automatic fan control for 3 fans -- basically everything is built-in so she doesn't have to worry about it.

The Lian-Li ITX cases are also very nice and available in silver, red and (very expensive) white.
 
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The cutout is still there, and I forgot which silverstone media case's reader it could canabalize, but Terry (iirc?) Oates stated they pulled it from the final accessories list, without any real explenation.

Though the cutout in the case can be used :) Silverstone even sends a non-logoed "spare" cover for that region (if you don't like the Silverstone logo - and you can use it as the modded faceplate bezel XD). SG05 ONLY. SG06 has... a bit more plastic to work through, lol.

But yeah, I already built one setup using the SG05 Black, after debating with myself if it was worthwhile to get a Shuttle AM2 setup. Other than the NewEgg reviews stating sad failure rates (newegg reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt... still... if about 30% of the LGA1366 Shuttle owners state it failed within a month, something is afoot) on the AM2 systems I was looking at, then, the odd PCIe placement on some of their systems turned me away.
 
wwischerath said:
I am not going to enter the debate between going Shuttle or build. I am going to point out that this forum gets LOTS of Shuttle owners with problems that require Shuttle parts. Some have gone as far as to remove the Shuttle stuff and convert to ITX, which they will tell you is not easy or cheap. If you have decided on a Shuttle (sounds like you have) and just trying to decide AMD or Intel, just pick which ever one you like. If you want input on a build, just ask.
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See, that is a valid reason. Thanks.

So that said, can anyone point me towards a small ITX case that includes or allows the use of an internal media card reader? This is on the list of "must haves" for the person buying.
 
jeremyshaw said:
SG05 or SG06
Gigabyte H55n-usb3
4GB DDR3
i3 CPU
Decent quality 300W PSU that comes with the SG05/SG06(a FSP source, but better than most/all FSP PSU....)
USB WiFi solution
Laptop DVD drive
Normal 3.5" and/or 2.5" drive (yep, can use both at the same time:p)
Nor is the Shuttle smaller.
Click to expand...

I have a build very similiar to this using the sg05 450w. Im running it as a gaming rig with a gtx 570 and it is amazing, so much power in such a small case. you should defintely get this type of setup over a shuttle, the sugos are soo roomy and excellently laid out
 
I would suggest a Lian-Li PC-Q08 with NH-C14 low-profile mode. See SPCR for reviews.

Or.. you can get an ASRock Vision 3D...
 
why does it matter if you want a full size or slim drive, they both do the same thing...
 
I already have a couple of regular drives, so that's $25-$30 I don't need to spend.

Also, I had a talk with her and an internal media card reader is basically a must. I can't find a single decent tiny case that has a built-in SD reader or a 3.5" bay to install one.

Also, if I do go away from Shuttle, should I go with an Asus M4A with Athlon II X2 260 or Gigabyte GA-H55N with an i3-540?
 
kumquat said:
Also, I had a talk with her and an internal media card reader is basically a must. I can't find a single decent tiny case that has a built-in SD reader or a 3.5" bay to install one.

Also, if I do go away from Shuttle, should I go with an Asus M4A with Athlon II X2 260 or Gigabyte GA-H55N with an i3-540?
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A case is a very personal thing for most people, so your best bet is to hit up NewEgg and Amazon with a search of "mATX card reader" or similar and go over the images with her.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rue&SrchInDesc=card reader&Page=1&PageSize=20

Lian-Li makes some nice cases with card readers built in, but you'll pay for it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112299

I'd also go Intel over AMD as it's usually a much better "bang for the buck" situation.
 
What's her usage scenario?
This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091) has both the 5.25" and 3.5" internal bays you're looking for, but its weakness is of course its power supply and single slot PCI bracket. I think you would be fine driving the bare essentials for AMD/Intel Mitx, but if you're going to add a LP GPU for gaming or home theater, you're also going to need to buy an SFX power supply, like the 450W that Silverstone sells.
 
Usage is basic. 90% internet and iTunes, some light photo editing.

I'm concerned about the PSU that comes with Apex units. I'm thinking of doing a Q07 and taping a media reader to the outside.
 
lol taping it sounds so ghetto, but maybe that's just the way I'm picturing it in my mind. If you are willing to go to those extremes, I might suggest just getting a USB card reader? The Apex PSU will definitely not be the greatest, but if you're not taxing the PSU too much, it shouldn't matter. You could even undervolt the proc to have a lower power draw. Also, there is always the option to go with a higher quality SFX PSU, there are a few out there. If you can wait a bit, the H67 chipset should be coming out in miniITX form factor soon, which I think suits that usage quite well, as the integrated graphics are supposed to be decently powerful, and SB procs are lower wattage, that should be sufficient for web browsing/light photo editing.
 
kumquat said:
Usage is basic. 90% internet and iTunes, some light photo editing.

I'm concerned about the PSU that comes with Apex units. I'm thinking of doing a Q07 and taping a media reader to the outside.
Click to expand...

I love how my Q07 looks. If your not adding a gaming graphics card its a great build. Both AMD and the new SB have good IGP. If your comfortable with modding theres room to put a card reader in the front panel, but you would have to be good to keep the looks!
 
You could look into Antec range
minuet 350
NSK2480
and use one of the bays to install card reader. Both come with PSU and support mATX if you want to have more choice of motherboards :) Plus they still look small enough.
 
Both of those are much larger than she wants. Even the Q07 is pushing the size equation. Still considering the uATX but it would have to go under the desk instead of on top, and she's pretty into the idea of a tiny computer on the desk. We already have the Minuet as an HTPC actually.

We decided last night to go with the Lian Li Q07, and I'm going to get an external card reader and attach it to the backside of the wall-mounted monitor facing the left side. It'll be easier to access than even an internal one. I also went with a Caviar Black 640GB, ECS H55H mini-ITX mobo, and an i3-540. Should be a great little computer.
 
Hey, you're right. I think I mistook the CD drive button as an SD slot.
 
kumquat said:
Both of those are much larger than she wants. Even the Q07 is pushing the size equation. Still considering the uATX but it would have to go under the desk instead of on top, and she's pretty into the idea of a tiny computer on the desk. We already have the Minuet as an HTPC actually.

We decided last night to go with the Lian Li Q07, and I'm going to get an external card reader and attach it to the backside of the wall-mounted monitor facing the left side. It'll be easier to access than even an internal one. I also went with a Caviar Black 640GB, ECS H55H mini-ITX mobo, and an i3-540. Should be a great little computer.
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Sounds like a good PC combo to me.
 
Those are definitely the right specs and form factor, but the comments on the unknown power supply at Newegg would keep me from buying one even if I hadn't bought the Q07 already.
 
The power supply wouldn't keep me from buying it, because I would have replaced it anyway (I don't trust no-name PSUs). Though, that would have probably run you $80 + shipping vs the $60 you paid for Q07.
 
Out of curiosity, which color Q07 did you get? Since the Red is discontinued, its either black or silver. The great Karnak guesses black.
 
Black it is sir.

Ryun, I will probably be building myself a similar system in the future. I see the Winsis uses a TFX power supply. Does anyone make a quality TFX PSU?
 
Scratch that, I see SeaSonic makes one. I will keep that in mind when I build my own.
 
I will advise you before bastage does. Unless you are willing to mod the wires, get the Silverstone modular PSU and the short cable kit. And since the PSU is the ONLY exhaust fan, a 120mm is a better choice than an 80mm one.
(for reference I am using a SeaSonic full ATX and I am modding the cables in my Q07)
 
I already ordered the Neo Eco 400. Not really worried about the wires. I don't mind cutting some if I need to, but I doubt it will be necessary. It has a 120mm fan.
 
Cool. Then have fun with your build. If you see my thread you can see where I have cut some of the wiring in PSU.

Hope you have as much fun with your build as I am having with mine.
 
In case anyone is wondering, the Q07 fit with the Neo Eco 400 is doing quite well. Didn't have to modify anything or remove any cables.
 
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