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Shuttle build Help

courtney01 said:
I think Tiraides very early in this thread mentioned something that the G43/45 have had some problems- does that mean the P43/45 also have problems?
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Nope. The P43/P45 are rock solid chipsets. The G43/G45 chipsets are not that good compared to their P43/P45 brothers in terms of overclocking, stability, and features.

courtney01 said:
I might also just get the asus micro atx and put it into the mid tower since I read online that it's possible. Which do you recommend: micro atx mobo in my previous build's mid tower (to save money on the case), micro atx mobo in a new sff case (my original plan), atx mobo in my mid tower?
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If you don't mind having that ATX case, then go for either the mATX or ATX mobo. Just figure which mobo fits your needs best.

courtney01 said:
Can you just briefly explain what each of these is used for: RAID, sata ports (difference from esata?), pci slots (how is this different from pci-e slots), legacy ports, firewire, and gigabit ports.
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- SATA ports are the current connectors for hard drives. eSATA is a sort of USB version of SATA in terms of external connectivity. Basically eSATA is the external version of SATA. In other words, you can now connect external hard drives and get faster speeds via eSATA rather than USB.

- PCI are an older interface for sound cards, NICs, etc. PCI-E is a significantly faster and more advanced version of PCI to put in simple terms.

- Legacy ports are parallel and serial ports. If you don't know what they are, then more than likely you don't need them.

- Gigabit NICs is the actual ethernet connection on the mobo. Gigabit is the speed of the ethernet connection. It won't increase your actual downloading or internet browsing speeds BUT it speeds up LAN transfers like from your PC to another PC on your network.

- RAID: read this:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/06/11/understanding_raid/1

But for simplicity sake, just avoid using RAID altogether.

courtney01 said:
I was just wondering because Tiraides recommended the E8400 over the E8200. The person I'm building this for wants at least an E8200, but I can try explaining what you said. How much of a performance drop would you notice from E8200 to E5200 and E2200?
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For all those general tasks (web browsing, word processing, watching HD content, etc), you would not notice a single difference or performance drop between the E8200 to E5200 to E2200.

courtney01 said:
Is either of the E2200/5200 ok for a final build with no intermediate upgrades (the person wants to use it for about 4 years)? What I mean is, would an E8200 somehow be "less obsolete" than an E2200 in 4 years time?
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Oh for four years then? Hmm, well to start off, the E8200 is a very very poor choice for CPU considering the faster E8400 is just $10 more. In this particular situation, I guess it would be OK to get the E8400 over the E2200 or E5200. The higher performance of the E8400 might be justified due to such a long period of time. Though to throw this out there: I still know a few people who still use older Pentium D systems for just general tasks for close to three years now and they're not anywhere near disatisfied with their systems. So certainly the E2200 has a long shelf life considering that it's faster than those old Pentium Ds.
 
Danny Bui said:
Nope. The P43/P45 are rock solid chipsets. The G43/G45 chipsets are not that good compared to their P43/P45 brothers in terms of overclocking, stability, and features.
If you don't mind having that ATX case, then go for either the mATX or ATX mobo. Just figure which mobo fits your needs best.
Click to expand...

I see. Since Tiraides explained that the Asus P5E-VM HDMI is one of the best micro atx mobos out there, in a similar fashion, what would be one mobo that's the atx-equivalent of that asus, and another that would be one step up? Which 2-3 companies are usually the top quality atx mobos? When comparing mobos, how do I know which one is better than another? Is it just by figuring out what kinds of ports are offered/how many there are/etc? (kind of like the counting explanation you made in your earlier post) Or are there other criteria I need to look out for?

- SATA ports are the current connectors for hard drives. eSATA is a sort of USB version of SATA in terms of external connectivity. Basically eSATA is the external version of SATA. In other words, you can now connect external hard drives and get faster speeds via eSATA rather than USB.

- PCI are an older interface for sound cards, NICs, etc. PCI-E is a significantly faster and more advanced version of PCI to put in simple terms.

- Legacy ports are parallel and serial ports. If you don't know what they are, then more than likely you don't need them.

- Gigabit NICs is the actual ethernet connection on the mobo. Gigabit is the speed of the ethernet connection. It won't increase your actual downloading or internet browsing speeds BUT it speeds up LAN transfers like from your PC to another PC on your network.

- RAID: read this:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2007/06/11/understanding_raid/1

But for simplicity sake, just avoid using RAID altogether.
Click to expand...
Oops, I'm so sorry for making you write all that. I actually went ahead to research them and I had just finished deleting that list of features when I noticed you wrote this up. But I guess I need some further clarification:

If I don't have a gigabit port, do I still have a normal ethernet port, or is the gigabit port THE ethernet port?

How do I know which pci-e ports I generally need? (x1, x4, x16, etc. What components use these different lane numbers)

Are ps/2 connections still in use nowadays?

For all those general tasks (web browsing, word processing, watching HD content, etc), you would not notice a single difference or performance drop between the E8200 to E5200 to E2200.

Oh for four years then? Hmm, well to start off, the E8200 is a very very poor choice for CPU considering the faster E8400 is just $10 more. In this particular situation, I guess it would be OK to get the E8400 over the E2200 or E5200. The higher performance of the E8400 might be justified due to such a long period of time. Though to throw this out there: I still know a few people who still use older Pentium D systems for just general tasks for close to three years now and they're not anywhere near disatisfied with their systems. So certainly the E2200 has a long shelf life considering that it's faster than those old Pentium Ds.
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I see. Out of curiosity, if the E5200 is $83 cheaper, given that you changed your mind because of the length of time for this build, would you still be weighing slightly more towards the E8400?
 
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courtney01 said:
I see. Since Tiraides explained that the Asus P5E-VM HDMI is one of the best micro atx mobos out there, in a similar fashion, what would be one mobo that's the atx-equivalent of that asus, and another that would be one step up? Which 2-3 companies are usually the top quality atx mobos? When comparing mobos, how do I know which one is better than another? Is it just by figuring out what kinds of ports are offered/how many there are/etc? (kind of like the counting explanation you made in your earlier post) Or are there other criteria I need to look out for?
Click to expand...

The closest to the Asus P5E-VM HDMI in the ATX world would be the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R/GA-EP45-UD3P and the Asus P5Q Pro motherboard. All three motherboards are solid choices. The two top quality mobo makers just happen to be Asus and Gigabyte.

When comparing mobos, you'll have to look up reviews for them, search through the forums for a general consensus on the mobos, and, in my case, remember how the previous chipset versions of those mobos worked out. For example, I've had experience with the GA-965P-DS3 to the GA-P35-DS3R to the GA-EP45-DS3R. My experience with all those mobos pretty much helped me figure out/expect that the GA-EP45-UD3P was a great mobo. And it was/is :) Other criteria are the features themselves (RAID, firewire, etc), what chipset they're based on (Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc) and who the manufacturer is (Asus, Gigabyte).

In my mobo list, all those mobos are based on reliable and stable Intel chipsets. In addition, the performance between all those mobos are almost the same. All the mobos came from decent to excellent mobo companies and are pretty well reviewed. So basically at that point, it's all about the features you want.

courtney01 said:
If I don't have a gigabit port, do I still have a normal ethernet port, or is the gigabit port THE ethernet port?

How do I know which pci-e ports I generally need? (x1, x4, x16, etc. What components use these different lane numbers)

Are ps/2 connections still in use nowadays?
Click to expand...

Gigabit port IS the ethernet port. As for which PCI-E ports you need, just figure out why add-on cards you might add in the future or use currently. For me, I would like to be able to run both my video card and a hardware RAID controller so I would need two PCI-E x16 slots. Sound cards and excellent quality NICs also come in PCI-E x1 format. If you plan on having more than two monitors or want Crossfire capability, then get a mobo with two PCI-E x16 slots and/or support for Crossfire.

Some people still use PS/2 BUT nowadays a lot of motherboards do not have them.

courtney01 said:
I see. I'll just get the E8400. But out of curiosity, if the E5200 is $83 cheaper, given that you changed your mind because of the length of time for this build, would you still be weighing slightly more towards the E8400?
Click to expand...

Since this person is not planning on upgrading for 4 years, then yes I would lean towards the E8400, despite the higher cost.
 
I'm really sorry, I'm still hazy about choosing a mobo.

What's the difference between G35 and P43/45 chipsets? Any reason why there aren't any good G35 ATX mobos? (only wondering because I noticed that your recommendation list didn't have any G35 chips)

What's the advantage of having a P45 over P43 (besides being able to support DDR3)

Keeping in mind that I'm going to upgrade to an i7 in 3 years (so I won't be needing top of the line components), which mobo (micro or normal) would give me the best combination of cost and quality? (From the list you gave me, I'm only going to consider the P43/45 chipsets, and G35 chips if there exist good ones, but none of the X# chipsets).

Is the only difference between micro ATX and ATX mobos the size (and hence the number of slots/ports available), or are there other quality differences?
 
What's the difference between G35 and P43/45 chipsets? Any reason why there aren't any good G35 ATX mobos? (only wondering because I noticed that your recommendation list didn't have any G35 chips

What's the advantage of having a P45 over P43 (besides being able to support DDR3
Click to expand...

Keep in mind as new technology is released, older stuff like mobo chipsets slowly fade away, its just the way of things. G35's were the big, new thing a year ago, now, not so much. P45's don't have any onboard video solution is the only real big difference as well support for up to 16gig of memory and DDR3. Theres no performance difference between the two.

Given that I'm going to upgrade to an i7 in 3 years, which mobo would give me the best combination of cost and quality? (From the list you gave me, I'm only going to consider the P43/45 chipsets, and G35 chips if there exist good ones, but none of the X# chipsets
Click to expand...

I'd personally recommend the ASUS P5E-VM HDMI. Its a great mobo that has alot of positive reviews with people. It may be "last years" model, but its proven reliable and stable with a vast user base from basic PC usage to top end overclockers. I love mine.

Is the only difference between micro ATX and ATX mobos the size (and hence the number of slots/ports available), or are there other quality differences?
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Yep, thats basically it, just smaller and less expansion support. As far as quality, that all depends on the motherboard makers. Again, your falling prey to this "If it deviates from the norm, it must be crap/cheaper" mindset. Going mATX DOES NOT equat to any quality deviation vs ATX form factor, positive or negative.

Honestly, you have done ALOT of homework into your system that most people can never even dream of doing, let along comprehending so I give you applause for wanting and learning about the "best" for your "needs" However, in the end, its just a computer, an object. No sense in spending exorbriant amount of your time and sanity worrying about all sorts of things that are beyond your control in regards to quality, compatibility, ect..ect..

I'm basically saying its time to just plunk down, decide and build your system or your gonna go be on the "What if" merrygoround till you go looney.
 
Freezebyte said:
Again, your falling prey to this "If it deviates from the norm, it must be crap/cheaper" mindset. Going mATX DOES NOT equat to any quality deviation vs ATX form factor, positive or negative.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wish I knew enough to make informed decisions. Fortunately, in this case, I actually do want to go with microATX. I only began considering normal ATX mobos because it's a bit cheaper and maybe it'll give me more expansion options.

Honestly, you have done ALOT of homework into your system that most people can never even dream of doing, let along comprehending so I give you applause for wanting and learning about the "best" for your "needs" However, in the end, its just a computer, an object. No sense in spending exorbriant amount of your time and sanity worrying about all sorts of things that are beyond your control in regards to quality, compatibility, ect..ect..

I'm basically saying its time to just plunk down, decide and build your system or your gonna go be on the "What if" merrygoround till you go looney.
Click to expand...

It's been really tiring trying to learn all these new things. It must be annoying for all you advanced people to see a noob like me come around and ask so many questions, which is why I really appreciate everything you guys have done and for sticking around. Thanks

I'm pretty much done I think, this mobo and a case to go with it is the only unresolved issue actually.

The only thing I'm worried about for the Asus P5E-VM HDMI is that it only has 1 pci-e slot, and I know for sure a video card is going to take that up, but if I happen to choose a sound card that needs a pci-e slot, then I'm stuck. Which is why I'm thinking of getting one with 2 pci-e x16 slots. So out of the recommendations Danny gave, I'm leaning towards the Gigabyte UD3R. He mentioned that there's a second pci-e x16 slot, but on the newegg page it only mentions 1, so I'm not sure what the actual specs are. Hopefully it has 2, since I'm debating between this and the original microATX Asus P5E-VM HDMI board to put into my mid tower.
 
courtney01 said:
The only thing I'm worried about for the Asus P5E-VM HDMI is that it only has 1 pci-e slot, and I know for sure a video card is going to take that up, but if I happen to choose a sound card that needs a pci-e slot, then I'm stuck. Which is why I'm thinking of getting one with 2 pci-e x16 slots. So out of the recommendations Danny gave, I'm leaning towards the Gigabyte UD3R. He mentioned that there's a second pci-e x16 slot, but on the newegg page it only mentions 1, so I'm not sure what the actual specs are. Hopefully it has 2, since I'm debating between this and the original microATX Asus P5E-VM HDMI board to put into my mid tower.
Click to expand...

The Asus P5E-VM HDMI has three PCI-E slots but only one of them is a PCI-E x16 slot. The other two PCI-E slots are PCI-E x1. No sound card uses PCI-E x16. PCI and PCI-E x1 are the more common sound card formats.

The Gigabyte UD3P has that second PCI-E x16 slot. The Gigabyte UD3R has only one PCI-E x16 slot. Both the UD3R and UD3P have 3 PCI-E x1 slots.
 
Danny Bui said:
The Asus P5E-VM HDMI has three PCI-E slots but only one of them is a PCI-E x16 slot. The other two PCI-E slots are PCI-E x1. No sound card uses PCI-E x16. PCI and PCI-E x1 are the more common sound card formats.

The Gigabyte UD3P has that second PCI-E x16 slot. The Gigabyte UD3R has only one PCI-E x16 slot. Both the UD3R and UD3P have 3 PCI-E x1 slots.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. I guess I don't need to worry about a 2nd pci-e x16 slot then. I was looking at the specs, and the Gigabyte doesn't have HDMI or VGA ports- is that an issue? I'm assuming at this point, both are similar so it's just up to me to decide whether I want micro or normal atx? I want the Asus board, but the Gigabyte is $20 cheaper after rebates so I might just go for the cheaper option.
 
courtney01 said:
.I was looking at the specs, and the Gigabyte doesn't have HDMI or VGA ports- is that an issue? I'm assuming at this point, both are similar so it's just up to me to decide whether I want micro or normal atx? I want the Asus board, but the Gigabyte is $20 cheaper after rebates so I might just go for the cheaper option.
Click to expand...

Whether or not the Gigabyte's lack of HDMI and VGA port is an issue is TOTALLY up to you. Do you need HDMI and VGA? If so, then it's going to be an issue. If not and you're using a dedicated video card, then no it won't be an issue. And yes at this point, it's all up to you to decide whether you want mATX or ATX / an SFF build or tower build.
 
courtney01 said:
Oh I see. I guess I don't need to worry about a 2nd pci-e x16 slot then. So I just need to pick between the Asus P5E-VM and the Gigabyte UD3R. I was looking at the specs, and the Gigabyte doesn't have HDMI or VGA ports- is that an issue? I'm assuming at this point, both are similar so it's just up to me to decide whether I want micro or normal atx? I want the Asus board, but the Gigabyte is $20 cheaper after rebates so I might just go for the cheaper option.
Click to expand...

Because you will be adding a add on video card, it renders the difference mute unless you like the idea of having a "back up" video solution in the event your main video card junks out for whatever reason.

As far as between the Asus and the Giga, i'm partial to Asus but others say Gigabyte including Danny.

Its gonna come down on wether you want a SFF or not.
 
Freezebyte said:
Because you will be adding a add on video card, it renders the difference mute unless you like the idea of having a "back up" video solution in the event your main video card junks out for whatever reason.

As far as between the Asus and the Giga, i'm partial to Asus but others say Gigabyte including Danny.

Its gonna come down on wether you want a SFF or not.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I really, really like both now, so it's just a matter of SFF or not (and price). The only issue I see is like you mentioned, if the video card dies, I'll have no way to use a monitor. Other than a second video card, is there a way to use a monitor in this situation for this mobo?
 
courtney01 said:
Other than a second video card, is there a way to use a monitor in this situation for this mobo?
Click to expand...

No other cost-effective way. There is that USB video adapter from eVGA but you're better off just buying a second card should your primary card die.
 
You'd lose both HD decoding and gaming performance if you go with that 8800GTS 320MB. The 8800GTS 512MB is a bit faster than the 9800GT which is equal to the 8800GT which is on par with the 8800GTX which is faster than the 8800GTS 640MB which is almost close to the 9600GT which is faster than the 8800GTS 320MB. Therefore the 9800GT and 9600GT both outperform the 8800GTS 320MB. In math form:
8800GTS 512MB > 9800GT = 8800GT ~= 8800GTX > 8800GTS 640MB ~= 9600GT > 8800GTS 320MB

The older 8800GTS 640MB and 320MB and 8800GTX never came with the HD decoding chip that later video cards come with. So yes you do lose HD movie performance with the 320MB. In addition, that card is a MSI, only one year warranty remember?
 
I'm trying to test my new PSU to check it's not DOA with my almost dead computer. I disconnected all wires on the motherboard, so the only things on it are the CPU w/ heatsink/fan, and RAM. Is it possible to test the PSU with this partial setup and is it safe to do so, even if one of these parts might not be working?
 
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Hey Danny, I checked out the troubleshooting page you referred me to, but I'm still not quite sure what I'm supposed to do. I'm not really trying to fix anything on my dead computer, I just want to use the bare minimum to see if my new PSU works, even if the rest of the computer doesn't. What I have connected to the mobo is almost the same as the bare minimum setup that page recommended, except I have 2 sticks of ram, graphics card, sound card and no hard drive. There are no connections to the mobo from the hard drive, optical drives, power button, restart button, all light indicators or anything else. Do I need to connect some of the wires I disconnected, like the power wire, reset wire, light indicators, etc? I don't need to see if this system posts, so I don't need to run through any of the tests they mention there. All I need is a quick, bare-minimum plug-in to my PSU to see if it powers up fine. I was about to do the paper-clip test you mentioned, but I'm scared of damaging the PSU so I wanted to try this alternative.
 
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courtney01 said:
Hey Danny, I checked out the troubleshooting page you referred me to, but I'm still not quite sure what I'm supposed to do. I'm not really trying to fix anything on my semi-dead computer, I just want to use the bare minimum to see if my new PSU works, even if the rest of the computer doesn't. What I have connected to the mobo is almost the same as the bare minimum setup that page recommended, except I have 2 sticks of ram, graphics card, sound card and no hard drive. There are no connections to the mobo from the hard drive, optical drives, power button, restart button, all light indicators or anything else. Do I need to connect some of the wires I disconnected, like the power wire, reset wire, light indicators, etc? I don't need to see if this system posts, so I don't need to run through any of the tests they mention there. All I need is a quick, bare-minimum plug-in to my PSU to see if it powers up fine. I was about to do the paper-clip test you mentioned, but I'm scared of damaging the PSU so I wanted to try this alternative.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen anyone fuck up a PSU as a result of the paperclip test. If the system POSTs fine, that means that all of the parts are working correctly. Remove the sound card and one stick of RAM to lessen the variables. Then start up the system.
 
Danny Bui said:
I haven't seen anyone fuck up a PSU as a result of the paperclip test. If the system POSTs fine, that means that all of the parts are working correctly. Remove the sound card and one stick of RAM to lessen the variables. Then start up the system.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I'm guessing POSTing is a necessary consequence of the PSU working? Will my setup start on its own when I plug the PSU into the power outlet? I'm wondering because I don't have any way of powering up the system the way I normally do (pushing the power button) because the power button is one of the wires that is disconnected from the mobo.
 
courtney01 said:
Ok, so I'm guessing POSTing is a necessary consequence of the PSU working? Will my setup start on its own when I plug the PSU into the power outlet? I'm wondering because I don't have any way of powering up the system the way I normally do (pushing the power button) because the power button is one of the wires that is disconnected from the mobo.
Click to expand...

You could A) reconnect the power button wire or B) use a screwdriver to jump or connect the two power pins on the motherboard. No the setup will not start up when you plug in the PSU. And yes POSTing is a good way to see if the PSU is working or not.
 
Ok, so after some fiddling around, I was able to test my new PSU with a CPU, 1 stick of RAM, and just the "power sw" wire connected to the mobo. The fan on the PSU turned, the CPU fan turned, and the mobo made one beep. I kept it on for about 15 seconds and then disconnected the power plug. Does this mean everything's fine (PSU, and for kicks now, CPU, mobo, and RAM)?
 
courtney01 said:
Ok, so after some fiddling around, I was able to test my new PSU with a CPU, 1 stick of RAM, and just the "power sw" wire connected to the mobo. The fan on the PSU turned, the CPU fan turned, and the mobo made one beep. I kept it on for about 15 seconds and then disconnected the power plug. Does this mean everything's fine (PSU, and for kicks now, CPU, mobo, and RAM)?
Click to expand...

Yep, sounds like it
 
Sorry but I posted this somewhere else too, but I'm not getting many responses so I was hoping someone here can give me some insight on what to do:

The OCZ used to be the same price as the Ballistix, so people told me to just stick with the Ballistix, but now the OCZ is unbelievably cheap. So I was wondering if the price would now affect anyone's decision, or if the Ballistix is still the way to go despite being $10 more.
 
I'd go with neither for the following reasons:
- Seeing far too many Ballistix RAM failure here in the forums
- Neither RAM comes with free shipping
- OCZ has a history of being reluctant with their rebates
- The G.Skill RAM I recommended earlier is a significantly better buy since it's cheaper than any of the chosen RAM sets, even when shipping is factored in.
 
Danny Bui said:
I'd go with neither for the following reasons:
- Seeing far too many Ballistix RAM failure here in the forums
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I did hear about that, but are you sure it's the 4GB set? I heard the 2GB set is really bad, but the 4GB is actually pretty good?

Whatever happens, I guess my Ballistix is inevitably going to be my default choice if I can't find a better option because I already purchased them at a local store. (which means returning is a simple drop by)

- Neither RAM comes with free shipping
- OCZ has a history of being reluctant with their rebates
Click to expand...

Don't mind the price on newegg (I only used their links because it's easy to access for me). I put the price I can get it for in parentheses. I guess to be more specific: I physically purchased the Ballistix at a local store for a total of $24 including tax, and I can find the OCZ online for $17 including shipping and tax. I don't mind returning the Ballistix if I have to since I can easily get to the store to return it.

- The G.Skill RAM I recommended earlier is a significantly better buy since it's cheaper than any of the chosen RAM sets, even when shipping is factored in.
Click to expand...

This Gskill? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=EMC-IGNEFL120408-_-Memory-_-L0E-_-20231122
Isn't this more expensive than the other 2 by at least $20?

If you had to decide between the original 2, should the OCZ being about $10 cheaper make me switch to that from the Ballistix?
 
courtney01 said:
Don't mind the price on newegg (I only used their links because it's easy to access for me). I put the price I can get it for in parentheses. I guess to be more specific: I physically purchased the Ballistix at a local store for a total of $24 including tax, and I can find the OCZ online for $17 including shipping and tax. I don't mind returning the Ballistix if I have to since I can easily get to the store to return it.
Click to expand...

I call BS. Where are you finding these RAM kits for so cheap? (And don't say rebates, because I agree with Danny on this one.)

And why are you discounting the advice that Danny and I have given you? I mean, what do we have to gain by misleading you?
 
tiraides said:
I call BS. Where are you finding these RAM kits for so cheap? (And don't say rebates, because I agree with Danny on this one.)

And why are you discounting the advice that Danny and I have given you? I mean, what do we have to gain by misleading you?
Click to expand...

What do I have to gain by giving you fake prices on these items? And when did I ever discount any advice that you or Danny has given? Every single piece of information that you or anyone has given has been immensely helpful to me and I've learned so much, and I have been so thankful for it. But I'm sorry if you feel like I'm "discounting" anything just because I keep asking questions, and that's because you simply don't know how I operate. You don't understand how much I appreciate how much you have helped me so far, but I like to take the information I learn and think for myself, too, rather than blindly accepting things. I want to understand why I need to be making these choices. And a few dollars here or a few there might not make a difference to you, but I come from a very poor family and I need to save as much of my parents' money as I can, and that's why I need to ask questions to figure out how all these costs can affect my decision.
 
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courtney01 said:
What do I have to gain by giving you fake prices on these items? And when did I ever discount any advice that you or Danny has given? Every single piece of information that you or anyone has given has been immensely helpful to me and I've learned so much, and I have been so thankful for it. But I'm sorry if you feel like I'm "discounting" anything just because I keep asking questions, and that's because you simply don't know how I operate. You don't understand how much I appreciate how much you have helped me so far, but I like to take the information I learn and think for myself, too, rather than blindly accepting things. I want to understand why I need to be making these choices. And a few dollars here or a few there might not make a difference to you, but I come from a very poor family and I need to save as much of my parents' money as I can, and that's why I need to ask questions to figure out how all these costs can affect my decision.
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I think the main reason why Tiraides is saying that you're discounting our advice is that you keep factoring in the rebates for the RAM and keep trying to avoid the G.Skill RAM we're recommending for no good reason (at least in our eyes rebates are not a good reason). Rebates are a bit of a pet peeve among some people here in the forums (myself included). You already know the reason why we ignored the rebates.

Also since you never mentioned whether or not those prices were before or after rebates, we are very skeptical of said prices.

Anyway, go ahead and keep asking questions.
 
Danny Bui said:
I think the main reason why Tiraides is saying that you're discounting our advice is that you keep factoring in the rebates for the RAM and keep trying to avoid the G.Skill RAM we're recommending for no good reason (at least in our eyes rebates are not a good reason). Rebates are a bit of a pet peeve among some people here in the forums (myself included). You already know the reason why we ignored the rebates.

Also since you never mentioned whether or not those prices were before or after rebates, we are very skeptical of said prices.

Anyway, go ahead and keep asking questions.
Click to expand...

I understand. I guess I haven't dealt with enough rebates to be burned by them (I sent off a slew recently, so maybe I'll get my initiation). I can see now why you or Tiraides would think I'm discounting suggestions since rebates aren't a factor for you guys, but on my part they are, so it's just a case of two different perspectives. Just know that I would never discount any of your advices because I respect them. That's why I'm asking you people, and not other people. :)
Tiraides, I was initially just upset that you felt I was being dishonest or something, but I hope you don't have any hard feelings- I just feel we needed to understand where both of us are coming from so there aren't any misunderstandings.
 
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I pretty much decided on getting a 9800 gt from evga, xfx, or bfg since they have lifetime warranties. I collected these, and I'm not sure which to pick if I'm looking for one that's not loud or doesn't heat up too much.

BFG:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4352336&CatId=3670

XFX:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4209965&CatId=3585
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4260639&CatId=3670
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4104586&CatId=3670

EVGA:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4035111&CatId=3670

I tried to find these same items on Newegg to see what kind of reviews they got, but I'm not sure how these match up in terms of model number. They look alike to me, but there are several "redundant" models and I don't know how to distinguish them except that they're different prices and slightly different model numbers. What's the deal with these same but different cards?

(newegg's "versions")
BFG:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143160

XFX:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150316
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150318
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150324
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150323

EVGA:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130384
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130380
 
You can easily see the differences between the different XFX models here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16814150331,N82E16814150324,N82E16814150323

The main differences is pretty much what game they're bundled with. The first three have the exact same specs but the first comes with COD4, the second has no game and the third has FC2. The last two XFX cards are higher clocked than the first three and only differ from one another by the game they come with: the second to last comes with COD:WAW and the last comes with FC2.

You can see the differences between the eVGA cards here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16814130435,N82E16814130377,N82E16814130384

But the main differences is HSF design, clock speed and differences in warranty (according to newegg)

You can see the differences between the BFG cards here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16814143164,N82E16814143160,N82E16814143154

Like eVGA, the main differences is HSF design and clock speed.
 
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