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Shuttle build Help

 
courtney01 said:
Wouldn't this be too much gaming quality for me? ...... I guess you're saying that even if it's the case I rarely play, if I want a good gaming experience during those rare times, I'll have to get a card with the mentality that I would be playing often? Otherwise, the only other option I have left is a card that's good with HD quality videos but is only decent with gaming?
Click to expand...

No, yes, yes. The HD4850 is just perfect for your wants/needs and monitor size. So I highly recommend going with the HD4850

courtney01 said:
What about if I don't keep the gaming option alive?
Click to expand...

Then go with the 9500GT you were planning on. Just beware that you won't get 7.1 audio via HDMI on that card like you would with any of HD 4XXX series.

RAM wise, definitely the G.Skills. Cheap, little to no compatibility problems and I'm personally using a set right now. Haven't heard of anyone having problems with the G.Skill, and I've recommended that set hundreds of times by now.
 
This hard drive was recommended originally
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

and I was trying to look around for cheaper prices and saw these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...le-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136298

http://www.google.com/products/cata...viar+640gb&cid=9424310183944293315#ps-sellers

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3839239&CatId=2459 (everything's the same here except the "item number" is slightly different from the original recommendation)

what are the differences here?

Back to the RAM list, if you had to pick the top 2 (disregarding the g.skill since I know it's really good), which would they be, and where would the Ballistix rank?? Since I'm going to switch to DDR3 in 2 years, is it ok if my RAM is not the best?
 
courtney01 said:
This hard drive was recommended originally
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

and I was trying to look around for cheaper prices and saw these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...le-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136298

http://www.google.com/products/cata...viar+640gb&cid=9424310183944293315#ps-sellers

(everything's the same here except the "item number" is slightly different from the original recommendation) http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3839239&CatId=2459

what are the differences here?
Click to expand...

The "GREEN" WD uses a power saving feature on the motor to reduce power consumption when not in use but results in slower performance.

The "BLUE" WD is a balance of power saving/performance

The "BLACK" WD is all out performance.

Back to the RAM list, if you had to pick the top 2 (disregarding the g.skill since I know it's really good), which would they be, and where would the Ballistix rank?? Since I'm going to switch to DDR3 in 2 years, is it ok if my RAM is not the best?
Click to expand...

Then it be between the Ballistix and the OCZ RAM as they have better timings then the Corsair.
 
courtney01 said:
Back to the RAM list, if you had to pick the top 2 (disregarding the g.skill since I know it's really good), which would they be, and where would the Ballistix rank?? Since I'm going to switch to DDR3 in 2 years, is it ok if my RAM is not the best?
Click to expand...

I would pick the Corsair and OCZ $40 RAM set simply because they have great price to GB ratios. In addition, Corsair has awesome support. So if G.Skill is unavailable, Corsair would be my next choice. I would rank the Ballistix RAM pretty low due to the somewhat high failure rates Ballistix RAM have.

Just an FYI, the performance between all the RAM sets you listed will be mostly the same. The lower latency doesn't really make a huge difference in real world performance.

Yes, it's ok to go with cheap RAM if you want. Since there's no strong enough of a performance increase with lower latency or high-end RAM, don't bother paying the extra.
 
I got curious about how my computer setup compares with the mainstream ones, and I found out that:

Dell: between their Studio and XPS 420 line, I'll be spending about $800-950 for a comparable system based on Q6600 or Q8200. (same amount of RAM, hdd, but no sound/video cards)

HP: s3600t, a6660t, m9400t, and d5100t based on Q9300 or Q6600 are also about $800-$950 for a comparable system. (same RAM, slightly more hdd, similar video card, no sound card)

Mine comes out to be about $750-$820 based on a Q8200. Is it better to buy retail or should I still build?
 
courtney01 said:
Mine comes out to be about $750-$820 based on a Q8200. Is it better to buy retail or should I still build?
Click to expand...

Depends, is that gaming requirement still on the table? If not and you really don't mind a larger case and all, go prebuilt.

If that gaming requirement is still on the table, build.
 
Danny Bui said:
Depends, is that gaming requirement still on the table? If not and you really don't mind a larger case and all, go prebuilt.

If that gaming requirement is still on the table, build.
Click to expand...

Still in the process of doing some price research and customization, but I was wondering, are Dell/HP computers upgradeable? As in, can I still go with my plan of changing out the mobo in 2 years to an i7 with these retail computers? I read mainstream companies use proprietary boards/cases so upgrading/customizing in the future might be hard. So it might be the case that in 2 years, instead of simply replacing mobo/ram/cpu, I'll have to replace at least mobo/ram/cpu/psu/case.

And another hesitation I have is, I don't know what the quality of the components Dell/HP use for their RAM, mobo, and hdd. Even if it their setup comes out to be cheaper or similar, maybe their components are just cheaper. Does anyone know what brands Dell/HP use for their components?
 
courtney01 said:
Still in the process of doing some price research and customization, but I was wondering, are Dell/HP computers upgradeable? As in, can I still go with my plan of changing out the mobo in 2 years to an i7 with these retail computers? I read mainstream companies use proprietary boards/cases so upgrading/customizing in the future might be hard. So it might be the case that in 2 years, instead of simply replacing mobo/ram/cpu, I'll have to replace at least mobo/ram/cpu/psu/case.

And another hesitation I have is, I don't know what the quality of the components Dell/HP use for their RAM, mobo, and hdd. Even if it their setup comes out to be cheaper or similar, maybe their components are just cheaper. Does anyone know what brands Dell/HP use for their components?
Click to expand...

Most of dells Mobo's are proprietary along with their PSU connections so your out of luck upgrading them down the road.

And nope, you DON"T know with prebuilt computers what parts/makers Dell/HP are using, they use whoever they get the parts from the cheapest and easily accessible. Unless you go with Dells "Alienware" or HP's "Voodoo" line, you don't have control over what goes into it, thats the trade off.
 
Freezebyte said:
Most of dells Mobo's are proprietary along with their PSU connections so your out of luck upgrading them down the road.
Click to expand...

So if I pick a prebuilt one, I should probably try to get the highest performance possible since I don't have the luxury of upgrading them.
But can't I just change out the psu and mobo, because if I do, whether I build one right now or buy prebuilt, after I discard the mobo/ram/cpu from my build or mobo/ram/cpu/psu from the prebuilt, wouldn't they both at that point have the same fresh start to be able to upgrade to an i7? If that's the case, maybe it would be ok having a cheap quality prebuilt since it's only temporary?

And nope, you DON"T know with prebuilt computers what parts/makers Dell/HP are using, they use whoever they get the parts from the cheapest and easily accessible. Unless you go with Dells "Alienware" or HP's "Voodoo" line, you don't have control over what goes into it, thats the trade off.
Click to expand...

I guess the cheap price isn't so cheap then. Would you say that I should add about $200 to Dell/HP's retail price to get the equivalent quality I'm getting right now in my build?
 
courtney01 said:
So if I pick a prebuilt one, I should probably try to get the highest performance possible since I don't have the luxury of upgrading them.
But can't I just change out the psu and mobo, because if I do, whether I build one right now or buy prebuilt, after I discard the mobo/ram/cpu from my build or mobo/ram/cpu/psu from the prebuilt, wouldn't they both at that point have the same fresh start to be able to upgrade to an i7? If that's the case, maybe it would be ok having a cheap quality prebuilt since it's only temporary?


I guess the cheap price isn't so cheap then. Would you say that I should add about $200 to Dell/HP's retail price to get the equivalent quality I'm getting right now in my build?
Click to expand...

That I honestly can't answer hun, corporations keep part makers of their products secret for a reason. Just know that you basically have very little control of the quality of components of prebuilt computers unless you spend the premieum for Voodoo or Alienware and those are $1500+ easily starting at which point, you have to ask yourself why not build your own and get exactly what you know and want in your machine.
 
Freezebyte said:
That I honestly can't answer hun, corporations keep part makers of their products secret for a reason. Just know that you basically have very little control of the quality of components of prebuilt computers unless you spend the premieum for Voodoo or Alienware and those are $1500+ easily starting at which point, you have to ask yourself why not build your own and get exactly what you know and want in your machine.
Click to expand...

I see. I'll have to make the value judgment myself. But just to clarify, regardless of what they put in, I can technically remove the mobo/psu/cpu from Dell systems and put my own in later, right? So all the issues arising from proprietary parts will become a non-issue. (unless their cases are also proprietary?)
 
courtney01 said:
I see. I'll have to make the value judgment myself. But just to clarify, regardless of what they put in, I can technically remove the mobo/psu/cpu from Dell systems and put my own in later, right?
Click to expand...

Not usually. Like it said, the mobo's on most of Dells machines are a different design and shape as well as their PSU attachments vs standard ATX motherboards and PSU's connections so your not able to "upgrade" the machines yourself. Its one of the ways companies keep people purchasing parts from "them" because only they carry it when something goes wrong. And yes, some of their cases are proprietary so that regular ATX power supplies and ATX motherboards will not fit inside. Such is the nature of prebuilt, proprietary computers. Once its out of warranty and something goes wrong, you basically toss it and buy a new one, hopefully from them ;)

Thats how Dell and HP have done so well, make cheap and relatively fast computers at screaming deals that typical folks will get a few good years use out of them and as soon as the warranty dumps, you can't get service or parts for them and you start over again. Much like deskjet printers have become. Spend $30 at one at walmart, if you get 2 years out of it, great! When it breaks, ya toss it and buy the "newer" cheap model available. PC advances and changes are now so fast, thats the way prebuilt computers have become.

Some of their model lines are more flexible and use standard ATX and power connections, but your gonna pay more for them typically and I haven't clue which models have what as Dell or HP doesn't post that information on their websites for obvious reasons.

Like Danny said and i've said, there is no such thing as "future proofing". Gone are the days when you could upgrade older hardware with newer memory, CPU's and what not back in mid 90's.
 
Freezebyte said:
Not usually. Like it said, the mobo's on most of Dells machines are a different design and shape as well as their PSU attachments vs standard ATX motherboards and PSU's connections so your not able to "upgrade" the machines yourself. Its one of the ways companies keep people purchasing parts from "them" because only they carry it when something goes wrong. Such is the nature of prebuilt, proprietary computers. Once its out of warranty and something goes wrong, you basically toss it and buy a new one.

Some of their model lines are more flexible and use standard ATX and power connections, but your gonna pay more for them typically and I haven't clue which models have what as Dell or HP doesn't post that information on their websites for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Oh I see, sorry, I didn't know enough about this to understand you completely. I thought that as long as all the proprietary parts were removed (mobo/psu), then the empty space was enough for me to just put in the mobo/psu that I want. So you're saying that the shape/size/arrangement of where the psu and mobo go in Dell cases won't fit normal components that I buy at, say, Newegg?

Like Danny said and i've said, there is no such thing as "future proofing". Gone are the days when you could upgrade older hardware with newer memory, CPU's and what not back in mid 90's.
Click to expand...

How sad. Actually, I wasn't thinking too much about future proofing as much as I was trying to minimize costs. I went into this whole pre-built direction right now because I was hoping to find an even cheaper transitional build since my main goal is to get an i7 in 2 years. Whatever I do have for the next 2 years though, I don't really care- as long as it's something decently good, my main priority for my current build is to make it as cheap as possible.
 
courtney01 said:
Oh I see, sorry, I didn't know enough about this to understand you completely. I thought that as long as all the proprietary parts were removed (mobo/psu), then the empty space was enough for me to just put in the mobo/psu that I want. So you're saying that the shape/size/arrangement of where the psu and mobo go in Dell cases won't fit normal components that I buy at, say, Newegg?
Click to expand...

Correct. Around 80-90% of prebuilt computers are built that way for a reason. It forces to you buy 'their" components and parts so they make more "money". At least up until the warranty expires that is, then they don't wanna mess with supporting "older" technology. They rather you be amazed at the newest and fastest PC they have available at a bargain price and purchase that instead and begin the cycle all over. Welcome to IT supply and demand. ;)

A good example. My girlfriends folks 3 year old Dell machine was having shutdown problems earlier this week. It was a good machine back in late 05. The warranty expired this Oct. Dell wouldn't even talk to me or her without a credit card first. She had to replace the propriety motherboard last year which was a pain to get a Dell tech out who was "authorized" to touch and work on Dell machines. He stated that if the machine has another problem like it did now, scrap it and buy a new one once the warranty expired

Sure enough, the mobo was having thermal shutdown issues like the first mobo did. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to run stable after 4 1/2 hours. To try to get a replacement mobo from dell was:

A. Gonna be next to impossible
B. And/or horrendously expensive

At that point I told her mom that you could purchase a much faster and current machine with a warranty that would be alot more price justifiable then trying to get an older machine working reliable again. She agreed and we purchased a her new Dell mini PC for $404 with Dual Core Intel, 320gig drive, DVD burner and Vista that will run circles around her old P4 setup from 3 years ago.

See how it works?
 
Another story to emphasize my point. My girlfriends folks spent $2100 back in mid 2000 for a top of the line Dell notebook for my girlfriend colleege years. By the time 2003 rolled around, that hardware in comparison to what you could purchase then was pitiful, $2100 worth of top end hardware outdone in just a few short years. Compared to todays hardware, its junk.

Flash forward to May of this year. Her originally HDD finally croaked and she was without a laptop for her archeology digs. I coulda spent $50 on a new HDD from newegg, slapped it in, rebuilt Windows XP on it and she could a gotten maybe a few more years outa of it. But who's to say how long the screen lamp or invertor would have lasted? Or what if the mobo started to have problems? It coulda last another 3 years, it coulda died in 3 weeks, hard to say. The machine also couldn't run current software worth squat as the hardware demands drastically rose from when her machine was built. I couldn't even buy a RAM upgrade for the thing. In the end, not justifiable.

She got a brand new $700 "budget" line Dell laptop that performs 10x then her old laptop and she will get a couple good years use out of it while the warranty lasts. Afterwards, its back to the gain vs loss game of "repair or replace" once something breaks on it.
 
So if I build my own system, I can always just replace whatever component fails at any time without having to throw the entire system out and buy a new one right? So building turns out to be cheaper and more flexible in the long run?

One question about the hard drive you answered earlier.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218
This doesn't have any color in its name, so would it automatically be "black"?
And just to make sure, these 3 are the same along with the one above, right?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017XUX7O
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008688&prodlist=froogle
http://www.smksuperstore.com/products/viewproduct.ashx?ID=37505&ref=faca5aeccca209e7020272a40d343c4d

Is it bad getting OEM components? Better to get retail?
 
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courtney01 said:
So if I build my own system, I can always just replace whatever component fails at any time without having to throw the entire system out and buy a new one right? So building turns out to be cheaper and more flexible in the long run?

One question about the hard drive you answered earlier.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218
This doesn't have any color in its name, so would it automatically be "black"?
And just to make sure, these 3 are the same along with the one above, right?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017XUX7O
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008688&prodlist=froogle
http://www.smksuperstore.com/products/viewproduct.ashx?ID=37505&ref=faca5aeccca209e7020272a40d343c4d

Is it bad getting OEM components? Better to get retail?
Click to expand...
The WD6400AAKS is part of the Blue line. And yes those are all the same drives in those links. No prob with getting OEM hard drives.

As for the long run build thing, it depends on what you consider the "system". Say two years from now your socket 775 motherboard dies. There might be a big chance that you won't be able to find a new replacement motherboard. Or a replacement mobo will cost so much, it'll just be more cost-effective to just replace the CPU, mobo and RAM. For many people, the CPU, mobo and RAM IS the system.

Look at Socket 939 systems right now. It's been roughly three years since they were king and replacement parts (CPUs and mobos) are ridiculously hard to find for them right now at a reasonable price. So if a socket 939 user's motherboard dies, he'll basically have to replace the mobo, CPU, and RAM.

However if you consider the system as a whole (hard drives, case, PSU, etc) then yes DIY setups are better than OEM built setups in regard to flexibility and cost.
 
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I see. Yeah, I was thinking of "system" as everything else included, too.

What about OEM hardware in general? They're not used or anything right? Will they be missing important accessories that retail packages contain?
 
courtney01 said:
I see. Yeah, I was thinking of "system" as everything else included, too.

What about OEM hardware in general? They're not used or anything right? Will they be missing important accessories that retail packages contain?
Click to expand...

They're not used but they do not come with any accessory of any kind. In the case of OEM hard drives and CD drives, they don't come with any disks or SATA cables. However, most motherboards these days comes with at least two SATA cables so you'll be covered then.
 
Oh sorry, one more thing about these retail systems, does this mean that even if I don't replace the mobo, I can't even add any extra card to their mobo? Like a graphics card that I want for example?
 
courtney01 said:
Oh sorry, one more thing about these retail systems, does this mean that even if I don't replace the mobo, I can't even add any extra card to their mobo? Like a graphics card that I want for example?
Click to expand...

Depends on which OEM system you buy, what PSU it has and what case it is. But assuming that the OEM system has a PCI-E slot, a decent PSU (kind of rare), and plenty of room inside the case, then yes you can add or upgrade the video card in an prebuilt system. At the very least, usually prebuilts will have a couple of PCI slots for expansion.
 
Danny Bui said:
Depends on which OEM system you buy, what PSU it has and what case it is. But assuming that the OEM system has a PCI-E slot, a decent PSU (kind of rare), and plenty of room inside the case, then yes you can add or upgrade the video card in an prebuilt system. At the very least, usually prebuilts will have a couple of PCI slots for expansion.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe I shouldn't risk it. I suppose when I'm comparing costs, I shouldn't compare a prebuilt system that has the same lower-end performance components as mine, since it would be something I would be keeping for 4 years from the get go instead of upgrading midway to something better. One of the Dells (Inspiron 530) costs about $550 with a Q6600 and it's really tempting me. So many factors to consider, I'm getting a huge head ache. :confused: I don't know how all of you have managed to keep up with everything.
 
I decided to pick my video card from hd4670, 9600gt, hd4830, and 9800gt. I know that the general rank of these is 4670=9600<9800=4830. I also read that although 4830 and 9800 are comparable, 4830 is actually a bit better. While price checking, I ran into a few variations of these.

-overclocked 4830:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MS...de9ddec1301e5589185309c3b28992f984c07d49f3d3c

-overclocked 9800:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-MSI-_-14127379

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009031&prodlist=froogle

-overclocked 9600:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127333

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-MSI-_-14127382

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MS...de9ddec1301e5589185309c3b28992f984c07d49f3d3c

Given that the 9800 is slightly below 4830, if the 9800 is overclocked, is it lower/equal/better than the 4830? If it's better than 9800, is the overclocked 4830 better than or equal to the overclocked 9800?

Given that the 9600 is only slightly better than the 4670, I would normally choose this 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125244) since it's at least $15 cheaper than other 9600's. But if the 9600 is overclocked, is the extra $15 worth paying for?
 
It's generally not a good idea to pay more for factory-overclocked video cards since, in most cases, you could easily overclock the card yourself.

Out of those choices you've "given" us, on a price/performance standpoint, the MSI 9800GT is the best option for you. The dual-slot cooler it comes with will also keep it much cooler than the stock single-slot cooler that's on the EVGA 9800GT.
 
tiraides said:
It's generally not a good idea to pay more for factory-overclocked video cards since, in most cases, you could easily overclock the card yourself.

Out of those choices you've "given" us, on a price/performance standpoint, the MSI 9800GT is the best option for you. The dual-slot cooler it comes with will also keep it much cooler than the stock single-slot cooler that's on the EVGA 9800GT.
Click to expand...

I see. The choices are a bit hard for me because the overclocked prices I found are actually cheaper than or the same as the ones that aren't, and plus I won't be overclocking anything myself either. Is the overclocked version still a bad idea in this case?
 
courtney01 said:
I see. The choices are a bit hard for me because the overclocked prices I found are actually cheaper than or the same as the ones that aren't, and plus I won't be overclocking anything myself either. Is the overclocked version still a bad idea in this case?
Click to expand...

Tiraides did say generally after all. However since the 9800GT superclock at ZZF.com is cheaper than the stock clocks version, that's a good deal. Too bad it's currently OOS. So I concur with Tiraides' MSI card recommendation.
 
Danny Bui said:
Tiraides did say generally after all. However since the 9800GT superclock at ZZF.com is cheaper than the stock clocks version, that's a good deal. Too bad it's currently OOS. So I concur with Tiraides' MSI card recommendation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify because he gave overclocking as a reason it's normally not a good idea, and I won't be overclocking things myself.

Just to give a better picture of where I'm picking from (rebated price in parentheses, asterisks mark overclocked cards):

>4670:
($56) GIGABYTE GV-R467D3-512I Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
GDDR3-512MB with Native HDMI, DVI-I and Dsub
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125244

($65) MSI R4670-2D512 Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127383

($70) ASUS EAH4670/DI/512M/A Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...c=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-ASUS-_-14121274

>9600
($80) EVGA 512-P3-N860-TR GeForce 9600 GT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 (2.0v) Video Card Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10008655&prodlist=froogle

*($73) MSI nVidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB OC 2DVI/HDCP PCI-Express Video Card
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MS...de9ddec1301e5589185309c3b28992f984c07d49f3d3c

*($73) MSI N9600GT 512M OC GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Overclocked at 700MHz, dual pipe cooling
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127333

*($80) MSI N9600GT-T2D512-OC GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-MSI-_-14127382

>4830
($100) ASUS EAH4830/HTDP/512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
640 Stream Processors ready
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...c=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-ASUS-_-14121289

*($99) MSI ATI Radeon HD4830 OC 512MB DDR3 2DVI PCI-Express Video Card
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MS...de9ddec1301e5589185309c3b28992f984c07d49f3d3c

>9800
($100) XFX GeForce 9800 GT 512MB DDR3 256-bit 600 MHz PCI-E 2.0 SLI DirectX 10 Video Card - PVT98GYDLH
http://www.buy.com/prod/xfx-geforce...ci-e-2-0-sli-directx/q/loc/101/209305310.html

($100) XFX GeForce 9800 GT - 512MB GDDR3, PCI Express 2.0, (2) Dual Link DVI, HDTV, VGA Support
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...&cm_mmc_o=TBBTkwCjCVyBpAgf mwzygtCjCVRqCjCVRq

*($100) EVGA 512-P3-N976-AR Geforce 9800 GT SuperClock 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 (2.0v) Video Card Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009031&prodlist=froogle

*($100) MSI N9800GT 512M OC GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-MSI-_-14127379

Is the overclocked 9600 anywhere near a stock 4830/9800? And does an overclocked 9800 make up for its stock version's underperformance against 4830?
 
Danny Bui said:
So I concur with Tiraides' MSI card recommendation.
Click to expand...

Ignore what I said there: Drop all the MSI cards. They only have a 1 year warranty which is total crap IMO. Asus is all right since they have a 3 year warranty. The XFX and eVGA cards all have lifetime warranties. No idea about Gigabyte's warranties.

An OC'd 9600GT is roughly 9% slower than a 9800GT or HD4830. An OC'd 9800GT should be even more equal to the HD4830.
 
Danny Bui said:
Ignore what I said there: Drop all the MSI cards. They only have a 1 year warranty which is total crap IMO. Asus is all right since they have a 3 year warranty. The XFX and eVGA cards all have lifetime warranties. No idea about Gigabyte's warranties.

An OC'd 9600GT is roughly 9% slower than a 9800GT or HD4830. An OC'd 9800GT should be even more equal to the HD4830.
Click to expand...

Ok. Since the OC'd 9600 is pretty much the same as 9800/4830 but cheaper than stock 9800, I should just decide from OC'd 9600 against 4830, or OC'd 9800 against 4830, depending on whether I want the audio features of ati or not. Is that ok reasoning?
 
courtney01 said:
Ok. Since the OC'd 9600 is pretty much the same as 9800/4830 but cheaper than stock 9800, I should just decide from OC'd 9600 against 4830, or OC'd 9800 against 4830, depending on whether I want the audio features of ati or not. Is that ok reasoning?
Click to expand...

That's Ok reasoning. Just an FYI though, even a stock 9800GT performs pretty well agains the HD4830 so a stock speed card 9800GT would be a good choice as well if it's cheaper.
 
I recently read that vista 32 bit or windows xp doesn't recognize more than about 3.2gb of RAM, so to maximize my 2 sticks I have to get vista 64bit. But I also noticed in your sig that your system has 6GB of ram using xp pro. How does that work? Do I need to have vista 64bit? I hope I can use xp pro with at least 4gb because I don't want to deal with vista.
 
courtney01 said:
I recently read that vista 32 bit or windows xp doesn't recognize more than about 3.2gb of RAM, so to maximize my 2 sticks I have to get vista 64bit. But I also noticed in your sig that your system has 6GB of ram using xp pro. How does that work? Do I need to have vista 64bit? I hope I can use xp pro with at least 4gb because I don't want to deal with vista.
Click to expand...

I can only use 3GB of RAM due to 32bit limitations and my video card. I just bought the extra 4GB of RAM (had 4x1GB sticks earlier, replaced 2x1GB with the new 2x2GB set so 6GB) for the hell of it. I do plan on installing my free copies of Vista Business 64bit and XP Pro 64bit soon but not until the quarter ends. MSDNAA FTW!:)

If you want to be able to use all 4GB of RAM, cannot get a XP Pro 64bit for cheap nor do not have a transferable XP key, then yes Vista 64bit is your only option. Vista 64bit actually has slightly better driver and hardware support than XP Pro 64bit. In addition, XP Pro 64bit costs $140 whereas Vista 64bit can often be found for $65 (through Microsoft's Ultimate Steal program for students) to $100 (Newegg price). Considering that performance between Vista and XP is virtually the same now, there's very little reasons to not go with Vista 64bit.

With that said, there's is one issue with 64bit OSes (Vista and XP included): Somewhat poor HD playback capabilities. Check out this thread and look around post 56:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276654
 
Danny Bui said:
I can only use 3GB of RAM due to 32bit limitations and my video card. I just bought the extra 4GB of RAM (had 4x1GB sticks earlier, replaced 2x1GB with the new 2x2GB set so 6GB) for the hell of it. I do plan on installing my free copies of Vista Business 64bit and XP Pro 64bit soon but not until the quarter ends. MSDNAA FTW!:)
Click to expand...

Wow, how did you get those for free?

If you want to be able to use all 4GB of RAM, cannot get a XP Pro 64bit for cheap nor do not have a transferable XP key, then yes Vista 64bit is your only option. Vista 64bit actually has slightly better driver and hardware support than XP Pro 64bit. In addition, XP Pro 64bit costs $140 whereas Vista 64bit can often be found for $65 (through Microsoft's Ultimate Steal program for students) to $100 (Newegg price). Considering that performance between Vista and XP is virtually the same now, there's very little reasons to not go with Vista 64bit.
Click to expand...

Then what I'm wondering is, assuming I'm going to use 4GB either way, which is better: xp using only about 3gb of ram but isn't that memory intensive anyway, or vista using all 4gb but is memory intensive?
 
courtney01 said:
Wow, how did you get those for free?
Click to expand...
My college is part of the MSDNAA program. Since I'm in a computer related major, I get access to a few free copies of XP, Vista, Server 2003 and 2008, SQL Server, etc in addition to getting huge discounts on Vista and XP ($24 for each!!).

courtney01 said:
Then what I'm wondering is, assuming I'm going to use 4GB either way, which is better: xp using only about 3gb of ram but isn't that memory intensive anyway, or vista using all 4gb but is memory intensive?
Click to expand...

Vista isn't memory intensive. It just caches or preload certain apps into the RAM for faster startup and usage. Unlike other OSes, Vista actually uses the RAM rather than just let it sit there like XP does.

So in other words, both are the same.
 
Danny Bui said:
My college is part of the MSDNAA program. Since I'm in a computer related major, I get access to a few free copies of XP, Vista, Server 2003 and 2008, SQL Server, etc in addition to getting huge discounts on Vista and XP ($24 for each!!).
Click to expand...

That's really cool! I can see now at least why you're so good with computers. Where do you happen to go to school? I guess everyone here is some computer related major.
 
Is there any risk microATX motherboards are going to be obsolete in 4-6 years? If so, is it safer to just build an ATX setup? What's the least risky form factor to use? Is the i7 going to be microATX-able in 2-3 years?
 
courtney01 said:
Is it possible to tell if this is OEM or retail?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...nternal/dp/tech-data/B0017XUX7O/ref=de_a_smtd

Is there any risk microATX motherboards are going to be obsolete in 4-6 years? If so, is it safer to just build an ATX setup? What's the least risky form factor to use? Is the i7 going to be microATX-able in 2-3 years?
Click to expand...

My guess would be retail given its from Amazon which isn't big on OEM products. mATX isn't going anywhere anytime. If anything, its growing rapidly with the increasing demand for HTPC. i7 will eventually have mATX boards, but not for at least another year hence why I didn't bother building my SFF system with one. That and the price premium. People want smaller and more functional computers that take up less space, most folks don't want the huge ass steel towers of the mid 90's, hence why the Mini Mac and other SFF sytems are so popular, people don't want to lose alot of space to computer. Hence why the LCD's out took CRT's so fast as soon as they became price justifiable, space savings, especially in offices

Many people predicted, especially Intel, given that it was their idea, that the BTX form factor was gonna do away with the ATX. Well we all know how that turned out, despite what Intel said :rolleyes: Needless to say, ATX isn't gonna meets it maker for awhile yet.

Also, you can use more then 3 gigs of RAM with Windows XP, but Windows just won't see it/have access to it, but other programs will if their that RAM hungry, but If your not going 64 bit and 4gigs of RAM, Vista isn't worth it for you right now.

FYI, I have a Associates degree in Information Systems Management from college as well as several self certifications in various areas and several years experience in the IT field in case you were curious. ;)
 
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