Shuttle build Help

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

Freezebyte said:
You will have to replace CPU, mobo and RAM, everything else is reusable unless PSU cable specs change, which I doubt

Just wondering, can you make an educated guess as to how much each of those would approximately cost? I'm trying to calculate about how much more this build is going to cost in the near future when I upgrade to the i7 since I'm going with the cheapest of the robust builds right now. (ie. q6600 over the q9550)

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

courtney01 said:
Just wondering, can you make an educated guess as to how much each of those would approximately cost? I'm trying to calculate about how much more this build is going to cost in the near future when I upgrade to the i7 since I'm going with the cheapest of the robust builds right now. (ie. q6600 over the q9550)

Well, the mainstream Core i7 CPUs and their prices haven't been released or even rumored yet. So even an educated guess will be hard. However, assuming that you're planning on upgrading the CPU, mobo and RAM within the next 6 months, the Core i7 920 would be around $300, a X58 mobo would be $200 and 6GB of DDR3 1600 RAM will be around $150. So about $600 in six months. In a year or so, I'd say $200 for some mainstream Core i7 CPU, about $150 for a P55 motherboard and around $90 to $100 for 6GB of DDR3 1333 RAM. So about $450 for a mainstream.

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

Danny Bui said:
Well, the mainstream Core i7 CPUs and their prices haven't been released or even rumored yet. So even an educated guess will be hard. However, assuming that you're planning on upgrading the CPU, mobo and RAM within the next 6 months, the Core i7 920 would be around $300, a X58 mobo would be $200 and 6GB of DDR3 1600 RAM will be around $150. So about $600 in six months. In a year or so, I'd say $200 for some mainstream Core i7 CPU, about $150 for a P55 motherboard and around $90 to $100 for 6GB of DDR3 1333 RAM. So about $450 for a mainstream.

I hope I'm explaining this clearly- essentially the q6600 setup is a temporary stepping stone to my ultimate goal of an i7 2 years down the line. I began with 2 options, either the q6600 or q9550, and the q9550 is about $200 more with not much of a noticeable performance difference. So, the saving of $200 now plus the cost of, say, $250 2 years later to upgrade to an i7 (which would show a performance difference) gives a net extra cost of $50 more than going for the q9550 right now. Sound about right?

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

courtney01 said:
I hope I'm explaining this clearly- essentially the q6600 setup is a temporary stepping stone to my ultimate goal of an i7 2 years down the line. I began with 2 options, either the q6600 or q9550, and the q9550 is about $200 more with not much of a noticeable performance difference. So, the saving of $200 now plus the cost of, say, $250 2 years later to upgrade to an i7 (which would show a performance difference) gives a net extra cost of $50 more than going for the q9550 right now. Sound about right?

Sounds about right. $250 for a Core i7 related build should be possible in two years from now. I mean you can easily get a Core 2 Duo derived system composed of RAM, CPU, and mobo for $250, two years after the launch of Core 2 Duos.

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

I heard that although modular psu's are tidy and convenient, they're actually more prone to resistance and air-flow hindrance within the psu. I don't really care how the interior looks as long as it's efficient and cool, so should I not get a modular psu?

The final thing I need for my build is a case.

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

Danny Bui said:
Sounds about right. $250 for a Core i7 related build should be possible in two years from now. I mean you can easily get a Core 2 Duo derived system composed of RAM, CPU, and mobo for $250, two years after the launch of Core 2 Duos.

If what I have right now is only temporary, shouldn't I just get something even cheaper than the q6600, like the e8400?

tiraides · Dec 3, 2008

The E8400 and the Q6600 trade blows in different benchmarks. The E8400 does better in gaming because of its higher clock speeds and because many games aren't optimized for quad cores. The Q6600 does better with encoding/decoding and other productivity benchmarks because of the additional cores. With movies, the video card plays more of a role because the media encoding/decoding is offloaded from the CPU to the GPU.

But you're overthinking things now. Get the Q6600 and stick with 4GB of RAM (you don't really need more than that -- put the other 4GB kit, if you want to, in your other build). You said that you were going to have a lot of programs open at the same time, and that you plan on doing some video and photo editing. With the Q6600, those tasks would be easier to do than with the E8400.

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

I agree with Tiraides. In addition, you said that there's a possibility that you might have to keep the system for 3 years instead of two. So for that extra $20 and considering that more and more games and apps are taking advantage of quad-cores, I highly recommend getting the Q6600.

Freezebyte · Dec 3, 2008

Popular options for SFF cases are these. I use the SG01-F for "Black Ice" I love it.

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

courtney01 said:
I also heard that although modular psu's are tidy and convenient, they're actually more prone to resistance and air-flow hindrance within the psu. I don't really care how the interior looks as long as it's efficient and cool, so should I not get a modular psu?

There aren't any major resistance or air flow hindrance within modular PSUs. What you read was mere FUD. However, modular PSUs are more expensive than their non-modular brothers. Right now, you can get this great quality PSU for $60:
Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU - $60

Whereas the cheapest modular PSU I'm willing to recommend right now is the Silverstone ST70F at $100. If you do go with the above Antec (and better do it soon since that's a sale price), just make sure there's enough room inside whatever SFF case you choose to stash away the cables.

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

As a reference point, approximately what's the minimum watts I need for my setup?

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

courtney01 said:
As a reference point, approximately what's the minimum watts I need for my setup?

It's just not about the wattage. There's also amperage, quality, and price concerns as well. You should read this PSU FAQ:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

So basically, get a 450W PSU with at least 30A on the +12V that is made by reputable manufacturer like Corsair, Seasonic, Antec (Earthwatts series, Neopower series, Signature series), PC Power&Cooling and Silverstone. For reference, the $60 EA650 has 45A on the +12V rail.

courtney01 · Dec 3, 2008

The comparisons I see online are mainly in relation to OC, but I'm not doing that. Stock speed is almost identical, but 8200 has half the L2 and a slightly faster FSB. Would there be a noticeable performance gain by using the 6600?

tiraides · Dec 3, 2008

If you bought the E8200 already, keep it. It performs similarly to the Q6600, but we push the older Q6600 because it's easier to overclock and (for the most part) is often found for a bit less.

If you see something that you like now, get it now. No two things are going to be on sale at the same time -- the EA650 power supply was $100 only a week ago -- and there's no guarantee that you'll see better deals on the parts that you're considering.

However, I still recommend a modular power supply, as the removable cables would make things much easier for you with the limited amount of space that you'll have. While I won't say that it's money well spent -- weeks ago, there were a few modular power supplies on sale for under $100 -- I believe that in this case, the benefits (less cables to deal with, more potential space freed up) outweigh the negative (expensive cost).

Dangman · Dec 3, 2008

tiraides said:
However, I still recommend a modular power supply, as the removable cables would make things much easier for you with the limited amount of space that you'll have. While I won't say that it's money well spent -- weeks ago, there were a few modular power supplies on sale for under $100 -- I believe that in this case, the benefits (less cables to deal with, more potential space freed up) outweigh the negative (expensive cost).

Just to toot his horn, if you take a look at Tiraides' sig, that's an SFF rig there

But since you're not overclocking, stick with the Q8200. Its performance is pretty close to the Q6600.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

Danny, you mentioned in my other thread that the HD4670 and HD4830 are the same as 9600gt and 9800gt.

I replied over there, but I'll just do it here, too: the 9800 and 4830 are about the same price, but the 4670 is about $30 cheaper than the 9600. Is it still worth it to get the 9600 over the 4670 then?

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
Danny, you mentioned in my other thread that the HD4670 and HD4830 are the same as 9600gt and 9800gt.

I replied over there, but I'll just do it here, too: the 9800 and 4830 are about the same price, but the 4670 is about $30 cheaper than the 9600. Is it still worth it to get the 9600 over the 4670 then?

Well one of the replies in your thread brought up a very good point: The HD4XXX series can provide LCPM 7.1 audio through HDMI whereas the 9xxx series can only provide 5.1 audio. So no, I don't recommend the 9600 or 9800 if you want better audio and willing to deal with slightly crappier support (Goddamn ATI, get some better video card partners!!!!)

Take a look at this HD4670 review and decide if the performance of the HD4670 compared to the 9600GT is acceptable to you:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4670-review/1

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

Danny Bui said:
Well one of the replies in your thread brought up a very good point: The HD4XXX series can provide LCPM 7.1 audio through HDMI whereas the 9xxx series can only provide 5.1 audio. So no, I don't recommend the 9600 or 9800 if you want better audio and willing to deal with slightly crappier support (Goddamn ATI, get some better video card partners!!!!)

Take a look at this HD4670 review and decide if the performance of the HD4670 compared to the 9600GT is acceptable to you:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4670-review/1

I'm not concerned much about 5.1 or 7.1, I'm just curious which one will give me the better graphics. The sound I can handle with a sound card in the future.

I'm a bit confused how sound comes into play with a video card, and what people mean by "7.1 over hdmi", etc.

That review almost convinced me to buy it on the spot.

tiraides · Dec 4, 2008

HDMI carries digital video and audio through its cables. DVI only carries digital video.

In terms of gaming power, they go: HD4670 = 9600GT < 9800GT < HD4850

Before I forget...

Danny Bui said:
Just to toot his horn, if you take a look at Tiraides' sig, that's an SFF rig there

... toot, toot.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

tiraides said:
HDMI carries digital video and audio through its cables. DVI only carries digital video.

I won't be doing HDMI so I guess I don't need to worry about the whole 5.1, 7.1 spiel?

In terms of gaming power, they go: HD4670 = 9600GT < 9800GT < HD4850

So if I were to pick one of the two lower ends here, I should opt for the 4670 because graphically it's the same as 9600 but it also offers better sound? How would the HD4830 and the 1GB 9500GT be inserted in the lineup?

I'm liking the original Silverstone 700W modular PSU you originally recommended, but I was also wondering about these choices (all modular):

SILVERSTONE SST-ST60F 600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817163109)
Antec BP550 Plus 550W ATX12V V2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016)
SeaSonic M12II SS-500GM 500W ATX12V 2.2 /EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151056)

What's the minimum psu specs I need in order to be able to upgrade to i7/DDR3/new mobo in 2-3 years time?

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

http://www.eworldsale.com/evga-512-...-bit-gddr3-pci-express-20-x16_5874_26606.html

Freezebyte · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
What's the minimum psu specs I need in order to be able to upgrade to i7/DDR3/new mobo in 2-3 years time?

500 -700 watt will last you a good long time unless the ATX power plug specifications change again.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

9500 GT 1GB GDDR2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130395

I know that the 1GB 9500GT is still GDDR2, but does the 1GB somehow make it better for gaming than these 4, or does it still fall into the "good for HD, sucks for gaming" category?

What about 9500GT 512MB GDDR3 in relation to these 4, HD4670, HD 4830, and 9600GT? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162015

Just so I understand the theory, which specs are important for good HD quality video and which for good gaming: memory, memory interface, and memory type?

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
So if I were to pick one of the two lower ends here, I should opt for the 4670 because graphically it's the same as 9600 but it also offers better sound? How would the HD4830 and the 1GB 9500GT be inserted in the lineup?

What about 9500GT 512MB GDDR3 in relation to these 4, HD4670, HD 4830, and 9600GT?

Yes, and the HD4830 = 9800GT performance wise. The 9500GT 1GB would be waaaay at the bottom of that lineup. So 9500GT 1GB GDDR2 < 9500GT 1GB GDDR3 < 9600GSO < HD4670 = 9600GT < 9800GT = HD4830 < HD4850

courtney01 said:
SILVERSTONE SST-ST60F 600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817163109)
Antec BP550 Plus 550W ATX12V V2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016)
SeaSonic M12II SS-500GM 500W ATX12V 2.2 /EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151056)

The Silverstone and Seasonic PSUs are of excellent and great quality respectively. The Antec BP500 is crap. However, in terms of price to amperage/wattage, the Silversont ST70F I recommended earlier is the better candidate. The $100 ST70F has 50A on the +12V rail, the $110 SST-ST60F has 49A on the +12V rail and the $130 M12II SS-500GM has 35A on the +12V rail. See why the Silverstone ST70F is recommended?

courtney01 said:
What's the minimum psu specs I need in order to be able to upgrade to i7/DDR3/new mobo in 2-3 years time?

40A on the +12V rail minimum just for a little breathing room.

courtney01 said:
9500 GT 1GB GDDR2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130395

I'm guessing this is better than any of the 4 I originally bought?

I know that the 1GB 9500GT is still GDDR2, but does the 1GB somehow make it better for gaming than these 4, or does it still fall into the "good for HD, sucks for gaming" category?

Nope. 1GB of GDDR2 RAM offers very very little gaming increase. The extra 512MB is just a marketing gimmick to hook unsuspecting buyers into thinking they're getting a super fast card with 1GB of VRAM when it's really a crappy card for gaming.

courtney01 said:
Just so I understand the theory, which specs are important for good HD quality video and which for good gaming: memory, memory interface, and memory type?

For HD quality video, the specs don't matter too much. It's just a matter of feature set and support like with the HD4XXX series have 7.1 audio support whereas the HD3XXX and 9XXXX series have support for 5.1 audio.

As for gaming, thats a bit more complicated. You also have to factor in the GPU core the video card is based off of. Unfortunately you cannot go off the hierarchy of numbers to determine the performance. For example the 9800GT is based off the G92 core whereas the 9600GT is based off the G94 core. The 9500GT is based off the G96 core. The G92 > G80 (older 8800 series) > G94 > G96

There's also the factor of number of shaders, clock speed of those shaders, pipelines, etc. So basically there's a huge variety of factors that goes into making a fast video card for gaming. But VERY VERY GENERALLY, basic minimums would be a 256bit memory interface and 512MB of GDDR3 RAM.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

Nope. 1GB of GDDR2 RAM offers very very little gaming increase. The extra 512MB is just a marketing gimmick to hook unsuspecting buyers into thinking they're getting a super fast card with 1GB of VRAM when it's really a crappy card for gaming.

Ah, I was one of them!

For HD quality video, the specs don't matter too much. It's just a matter of feature set and support like with the HD4XXX series have 7.1 audio support whereas the HD3XXX and 9XXXX series have support for 5.1 audio.

But these features wouldn't matter to me since I'm more concerned with the graphic quality, right? So I should just pick according to that string of inequalities you gave?

So 9500GT 1GB GDDR2 < 9500GT 1GB GDDR3 < 9600GSO < HD4670 = 9600GT < 9800GT = HD4830 < HD4850

Did you mean 9500GT 512MB GDDR3? And just to clarify, every card here is better than any of the 4 original cards I bought, right? If that's the case, and since I'm not so much into gaming, wouldn't the 9500GT 512MB GDDR3 be the best choice since it's a step up in performance from any of the 4 I bought and is cheaper too at $30?

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
I know you like to go by the pre-rebate price, but I guess I'm a bit more optimistic . Assuming I get the Silverstone SST-ST60F at $90, is it still not as good of a value as the one you originally recommended?
And I'm guessing I shouldn't go by the egg-rating system all the time since the Antec has 5 eggs but isn't that great.

Yeah, definitely DO NOT go by newegg ratings when it comes to power supplies. The majority of those reviews are written by noobs, idiots, ignorants, ill-informed, fanboys, and utterly retarded people. So take newegg reviews with a HUGE grain of salt.

Anyway, assuming that you get the rebate, then yeah the SST-ST60F would be a good choice. But I don't assume with it comes to rebates. They can still be rejected, lost, or outright ignored. Considering that a few rebate companies have gone under lately, that really doesn't bolster confidence in the rebate system.

courtney01 said:
But these features wouldn't matter to me since I'm more concerned with the graphic quality, right? So I should just pick according to that string of inequalities you gave?

AFAIK, those cards will provide the same level of graphic quality. So the next way to find the card you want are the features set.

courtney01 said:
Did you mean 9500GT 512MB GDDR3? And just to clarify, every card here is better than any of the 4 original cards I bought, right? If that's the case, and since I'm not so much into gaming, wouldn't the 9500GT 512MB GDDR3 be the best choice since it's a step up in performance from any of the 4 I bought and is cheaper too at $30?

Yeah I mean the 9500GT 512MB GDDR3. Wait you already bought those cards? What did you do with them? The 9500GT isn't that much of a step up over the HD4650 since it's still limited by the number of texture units and shaders and 128bit memory bus. Not gonna argue the price since you already know my position on rebates.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

The 9500GT 512MB GDD3 isn't at least a step down from any of these 4, right? As long as it's at least on par with the best of the 4 (I'm assuming you're thinking the best is #3?), I'm going to eliminate these 4 choices and replace it with the 9500GT GDD3 as my minimal option given how cheap it is (after rebate).

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
The 9500GT 512MB GDD3 isn't at least a step down from any of these 4, right? As long as it's at least on par with the best of the 4 (I'm assuming you're thinking the best is #3?), I'm going to eliminate these 4 choices and replace it with the 9500GT GDD3 as my minimal option given how cheap it is (after rebate).

The 9500GT isn't a step down but it's isn't that much of a performance improvement over the HD4670 1GB DDR2.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

When choosing from nvidia or ati, which companies are the best?

nvidia: evga, pny, xfx, palit, msi, zotac, ecs, galaxy, bfg, asus, gigabyte
ati: msi, diamond, sapphire, visiontek, asus, his, powercolor, gigabyte, palit

On some evga's, it says e-GeForce instead of GeForce. Is there a difference?

Is there a difference between graphics "card" and graphics "adapter"?

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
When choosing from nvidia or ati, which companies are the best?

nvidia: evga, pny, xfx, palit, msi, zotac, ecs, galaxy, bfg, asus, gigabyte
ati: msi, diamond, sapphire, visiontek, asus, his, powercolor, gigabyte, palit

These are all IMO:
- Top three on Nvidia's side in terms of service and warranty would be eVGA, XFX and BFG.
- Top one on ATI's side in terms of service and warranty would be Visiontek.
- For both, Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI are pretty decent when it comes to support and warranty.
- Decent ones on Nvidia's side would be PNY, Palit and Zotac
- The rest of ATI's video card partners have somewhat poor service and warranty length. Only reason why I recommend Sapphire is because their cards are usually cheaper than other ATI makers.

courtney01 said:
On some evga's, it says e-GeForce instead of GeForce. Is there a difference?

Is there a difference between graphics "card" and graphics "adapter"?

No differences

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

Danny Bui said:
These are all IMO:
- Top three on Nvidia's side in terms of service and warranty would be eVGA, XFX and BFG.
- Top one on ATI's side in terms of service and warranty would be Visiontek.
- For both, Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI are pretty decent when it comes to support and warranty.
- Decent ones on Nvidia's side would be PNY, Palit and Zotac
- The rest of ATI's video card partners have somewhat poor service and warranty length. Only reason why I recommend Sapphire is because their cards are usually cheaper than other ATI makers.

So graphics quality wise they're all the same, it's just differences in warranty/service?

Dangman · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01 said:
So graphics quality wise they're all the same, it's just differences in warranty/service?

In terms of HD content, yes I think they're mostly the same. Major differences are warranty and service and features set.

tiraides · Dec 4, 2008

courtney01, please answer the following two questions for us:

1) Which monitor size (in inches) do you want most: 20, 22, or 24?

2) Which games, if any, do you see yourself playing?

Those two questions will help us help you choose a video card. But I'm going to warn you now, since you've already bought a few cards, that you may not like our recommendations.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

Freezebyte said:
Popular options for SFF cases are these. I use the SG01-F for "Black Ice" I love it.

I think I'm going to go for this one.

courtney01 · Dec 4, 2008

tiraides said:
1) Which monitor size (in inches) do you want most: 20, 22, or 24?

22

2) Which games, if any, do you see yourself playing?

I honestly don't know any games out there because I haven't played a game for many years, nor do I foresee myself logging any significant time playing games in the future. My main priority is with HD quality videos. But in regards to games, even though I won't be playing much, I still do want to have a graphics card that's good for most games just in case for the times I do happen to find myself playing some. So maybe some cards just good enough for HD quality videos, and another that could handle both HD quality and games.

And after I upgrade to a full setup in 2 years time, I'll be keeping the system for another 4 years, so I do want some future-proofing for video cards. So I would appreciate seeing one group of cards that would be good for future-proofing, and another group regardless of future proofing, unless the ones so far recommended are already good enough to keep around for another 5 years.

Those two questions will help us help you choose a video card. But I'm going to warn you now, since you've already bought a few cards, that you may not like our recommendations

That's ok. I never bought those to keep anyway, I only got them because I didn't want to miss the sale prices and I had no idea what quality they were

. I returned them today because I figured at worst I could get the Galaxy 9500GT 512MB GDDR3 for $39, which would be a better deal than any of the ones I originally got.

By the way, I feel so horrible constantly bothering you guys with my questions! I totally appreciate all the help. It's just incredible how much you guys know.

Freezebyte · Dec 5, 2008

courtney01 said:
I think I'm going to go for this one. Will all my components fit in there?

So far:
- Asus P5E-VM microATX motherboard
- Silverstone ST70F 700 watt modular power supply OR Silverstone SST-ST60F 600W modular power supply
- Intel Q8200 or Q6600
- Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0GB/s hard drive
- 2 sticks of 2GB Crucial Ballistix PC6400
- 1 or 2 DVD drives
- An old Audigy sound card
- Undecided video card

All of that will fit in there just fine.

Envie · Dec 5, 2008

courtney01 said:
22
And after I upgrade to a full setup in 2 years time, I'll be keeping the system for another 4 years, so I do want some future-proofing for video cards. So I would appreciate seeing one group of cards that would be good for future-proofing, and another group regardless of future proofing, unless the ones so far recommended are already good enough to keep around for another 5 years.

By the way, I feel so horrible constantly bother you guys with my questions! I totally appreciate all the help. It's just incredible how much you guys know.

Take my words for what they are worth, im partially retarded with computers, however...
Future proof does not exist, set a goal for what you want and when you want to replace it.

When you upgrade to a full set-up would be a good time to upgrade imo...

courtney01 · Dec 5, 2008

Envie said:
Take my words for what they are worth, im partially retarded with computers, however...
Future proof does not exist, set a goal for what you want and when you want to replace it.

When you upgrade to a full set-up would be a good time to upgrade imo...

I see. In that case, just forget my request for a "future proof" category of graphics cards. I guess I'll just need one that will serve me well for 3 years or so, and then I'll find another graphics card to use at that point.

tiraides · Dec 5, 2008

In that case: Get the HD4850. It can play games on the 22 inch monitor, and (provided that you don't use high/max visual settings on any recently released game) will suit your needs for the next two or three years.

You keep saying that you want a card that would enable you to play games on a large monitor, but you don't want to spend a lot of money. The HD4850 fit both of those "requirements" -- and it would have cost you less than the money that you've spent on all of those cards. (Hell, you could have bought an HD4870 or a GTX 260 with the "extra" money that you've spent so far... and those are the cards that we normally recommend for gaming on a 22 inch monitor.)

If you're serious about keeping the option of gaming alive, then return all of those cards and get the HD4850. Don't get the 9800GT; the HD4850 is a better long-term option (however long you decide to keep it for).

courtney01 · Dec 5, 2008

tiraides said:
In that case: Get the HD4850.

It can play games on the 22 inch monitor, and (provided that you don't use high/max visual settings on any recently released game) will suit your needs for the next two or three years. You keep saying that you want a card that would enable you to play games on a large monitor, but you don't want to spend a lot of money.

Wouldn't this be too much gaming quality for me? I've been stressing that my main concern is for HD quality videos, and the gaming requirements are secondary since I don't play much. But I also emphasized that even though I don't play much, I would like a good enough graphics card to handle games well just in case I do play. Since I don't know anything about this topic, I'm probably envisioning some make-belief-video-card that will perfectly suit my needs. I guess you're saying that even if it's the case I rarely play, if I want a good gaming experience during those rare times, I'll have to get a card with the mentality that I would be playing often? Otherwise, the only other option I have left is a card that's good with HD quality videos but is only decent with gaming?

The HD4850 fit both of those "requirements" -- and it would have cost you less than the money that you've spent on all of those cards. (Hell, you could have bought an HD4870 or a GTX 260 with the "extra" money that you've spent so far... and those are the cards that we normally recommend for gaming on a 22 inch monitor.)

Sorry if I didn't make this clear earlier for you earlier: I technically don't have any money invested in any video card yet. The 4 that I spent money on originally, I intended to return 3 or 4 of them after making a final decision (depending on whether my final choice comes from this batch or not). I had to get this batch because I didn't want to miss the one day sale prices from my local store. I already returned all 4 because I decided to pick from HD4670, HD 4830, 9600GSO, 9600GT, and 9800GT (and now the HD 4850)

If you're serious about keeping the option of gaming alive, then return all of those cards and get the HD4850. Don't get the 9800GT; the HD4850 is a better long-term option (however long you decide to keep it for).

Ok, if I keep the gaming option alive, I'll give that one a good consideration.

What about if I don't keep the gaming option alive?

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