Shopping for a new rig

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jeece

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
316
My motherboard let me down recently. Instead of getting a new one, I may upgrade to 64.Things moved along since I assembled my current computer (socket A Athlon :D ), and I stopped following technology for a few years. I'm completely lost with this "new" stuff.

I had:
Athlon mobile 2600+ @ 2.4mhz
Asus A7N8X-E deluxe
1gb DDR Ram, Mushkin One PC3500
ATI X800 Pro AGP
Some S-ATA HDs

Now I need:
64 CPU + cooler
Reliable motherboard (ASUS, ABIT, Gigabyte, MSI?)
Graphic card (PCI-E)
RAM (only if DDR)
The rest will be scavenged from actual computer.
Oh, and I'll keep my Antec NeoPower 480W PSU.

Machine will be used for moderate gaming and 2D graphic work (design, photography). My previous setup was adequate for me, running BF2 1280x1024x32, 75hz, AA x2. Photoshop processing was all right too. I don't need a benchmark-breaker, but I'd like something that'll last a few years (I made 3-4 years with my ex-rig). I don't mind to overclock slightly (air cooling). Mostly looking for good deal$, since I wasn't planning to upgrade that soon. I don't really mind if it's high-performance stuff from yesterday, or used stuff. Will probably run Windows XP, and I'll give a try at OSX too. I'm an AMD and ATI fanboy, but may consider the dark side.

I was thinking to start around an Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane AM2 CPU.
As for the motherboard, not sure here... Decent onboard 5.1 sound and LAN are a must. Also 6 USB ports and 6 and 4 pins Firewire. Don't need 5 PCI slots.
RAM: Something that fits with mobo. 2gb
Video: I'm not really hardcore gamer. My X800Pro did a great job for me. Maybe something a little faster?

Looking for overall a little bit above average performance, with quality parts.

Any suggestions for this new computer?
 
Some questions that need to be answered:
- What's your budget?
- How long have you had that Neopower 480W?
- What size monitor do you have?

And yes you should go with Intel. Clock for clock, an Intel Core 2 Duo will beat any AMD CPU.
 
Of course.

Budget? The less the better. Let's say under 500$ if possible. I wont mind sacrifice a few FPS to save cash.
The NeoPower, let's see, 24-30 months. Else I have a Vantec Stealth 420W, I used it only to test fans and cathodes, but I think it wont cut it.
Monitor is a 19" Samsung CRT

Intels are welcome. :) If the performance/price ratio is good enough.

Oh, computer is usually up and folding 24/24.
 
Hmmm a 2 1/2 years old Channel Well Tech PSU with Fuhjyyu capacitors? To be on 24/7? I recommend replacing the PSU as well.

Though have you had any problems with the PSU? And is the warranty still intact? If you answer yes to both questions, you can RMA the PSU back to Antec and get a NeoHE 500W PSU in return. It's a much better PSU.

Oh how many firewire ports do you need? Will you be reusing your case?
 
$75 - E2140 1.6Ghz C2D (good to ~3Ghz with good aftermarket cooler)
$50 ($40 AR, $10 MIR) - Zerotherm Nirvana NV120 HSF
$45 ($30 AR, $15 MIR) - PQI TurboMemory DDR2-800 CAS5 2GB kit (2x1GB sticks)
$98 ($78 AR, $20 MIR) - Abit IP35V
$230 - EVGA 8800GT 512MB
$83 ($68 AR, $15 MIR) - Corsair 550 VX PSU

$581 total before rebates, + some shipping. $90 in MIRs, total. So ~$500 after you get the rebates back. If you can manage around $40-50 more you can go with a 4GB RAM kit.

It'll kick ass and take names. Promise. Plus you can put a cheap 45nm Quad in in in ~6-8 months if you feel like it, and it'll keep right on kicking ass. That HSF will handle a Quad, as will the PSU.
 
Thanks Danny.

I'm not sure about PSU issues. When my computer began to act up, I thought it was actually the PSU. The computer "turned on" as soon as main PSU switch was switched on, but would not POST. I tried the Vantec PSU and the same issue arised. Do you think the NeoPower could have damaged the mobo? I don't know if the warranty is still valid (time-wise), but the stickers are intact.

Thread describing the trouble

Firewire ports, one of each. 4 pins for camera (iLink), and 6 pins for occasional external HD docking. They can be the modular kind, which are attached from a PCI back slot.

Yeah, I'd like to keep the same ATX case to keep the cost down. Else, heck, I'll enclose the bare parts in my desk. :eek:

Edit: thanks silent-circuit!
Some nice ideas to start from. NewEgg wont ship up here in Canada, but I'll keep my eyes open for deals on these parts.
 
I've been reading, and I tend to lean more toward Intel now. :D

I may get an ATI HD3850 VGA card, somewhat cheaper than an 8800GT and it looks all right to me performance-wise.

I want to keep this rig (well, the base) for a few years, so upgradeability is important.

Selling my old leftover parts (Athlon CPU, DDR ram, X800Pro) should help raise a few bucks, so budget wont be that hurt.
 
The 8800GT is substantially faster than the 3850. Just make sure it will be enough for you... and if you get one, get one of the 512MB cards.
 
Gah, if I get an nVidia I guess none of my stickers will be valid anymore. :p Except the Western Digital.

RicedAMD006.jpg


:D I was getting tired of this work-in-progress case anyways, now here's a reason to start over and complete it well the first time around.

May consider the 8800GT if budget allows it. I was thinking of a getting a slightly beefed-up motherboard instead, thus the cheaper VGA.
 
I'd recommend saving a bit longer and not skimping on either, really.
The DFI P35-TR2S is going for $130 right now, and it's got a great featureset for the money.
 
jeece said:
I've been reading, and I tend to lean more toward Intel now. :D

I may get an ATI HD3850 VGA card, somewhat cheaper than an 8800GT and it looks all right to me performance-wise.

I want to keep this rig (well, the base) for a few years, so upgradeability is important.

Selling my old leftover parts (Athlon CPU, DDR ram, X800Pro) should help raise a few bucks, so budget wont be that hurt.
Click to expand...

You can't even compare a 8800GT to a 3850.
 
Oh, I wasn't comparing at all, I know the 3850 is inferior, but I thought it'd be enough for me.

Now, for the RAM, if I plan to overclock an E2140/2160 (800mhz), should I stick to 800mhz (DDR2 6400) ram, or get something faster for easier OC? Sorry for the newbness, I'm very outdated.
 
jeece said:
Oh, I wasn't comparing at all, I know the 3850 is inferior, but I thought it'd be enough for me.

Now, for the RAM, if I plan to overclock an E2140/2160 (800mhz), should I stick to 800mhz (DDR2 6400) ram, or get something faster for easier OC? Sorry for the newbness, I'm very outdated.
Click to expand...

DDR2-800 should be fine with an E2xxx series chip.
 
What about an E4500 CPU? (Intel Core2 Duo E4500 2.20GHz, 2MB Cache, 800MHz FSB, Allendale) Can it still reach good OC speed (similar to E2xxx), and would I benefit the supplemental cache? I mean, clock speed for clock speed, is there a significant performance raise?

For the motherboard, I'm still trying to decide between Gigabyte, DFI and Abit.

RAM: Probably 2gb of Corsair

PSU: Looking towards Enermax

Also, I may get a lower video card. All the 8800GT I saw were only dual DVI, and a little bit over my budget (and needs). I'm still stuck with my CRT so I need VGA. I know adapters exist though.
 
The dual DVI cards come with DVI to VGA adapters.

I'd go with the E2160 or so and keep the 8800GT. It might be "too much" now but won't necessarily be in 3-6 months. As for E2xxx to E4xxx comparison, maybe 5% performance difference at the same clocks. Not enough to really matter.
 
Most new video cards come with DVI to VGA adapters in the box. So you should be covered if you get the 8800GT.

As for whether or not you should go with the 2MB L2 Cache E4500 VS the 1MB L2 Cache E2xx0 series, check these links out:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_4.html#sect0
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3127&p=2

Unfortunately search is currently disabled so I can't pull up Enginurd's links about the L2 cache.

And yes the E4500 does OC just as well as the E2xx0 series. In fact, I usually see E4500s OC'd higher than many E2xx0 CPUs, around 3.3Ghz to 3.5Ghz.

As for the PSU, which Enermax PSU are you looking at? If it's the Liberty 500W, don't get it. Too old and there are much better PSUs for the price.
 
Danny's links will suffice. Stick with the E2000 series chip if it means a better vidcard for a gaming rig.
 
Okay. :D I'm grateful for your inputs guys. I'll begin with a lower-end CPU and upgrade when (if) necessary then. I found out some OK deals on used 8000GTs out there, that sure helps. :)

PSU: Yeah, I thought about an Enermax Liberty or Noisetaker. Those are down the drain. I just found out about the Gigabyte Odin though. Seems interesting. Else, the Corsair VX unit as suggested above will do.

The mobo is the hardest to choose so far. I've been looking at manufacturers spec sheets all afternoon. Many mobo within the same brand are pretty much alike with very subtle difference between them.
Abit IP35Pro
Abit IP35V
DFI P35T2L
DFI UT (or LT) P35-T2R if budget allows. Both have similar specs?
DFI T2RS
Gigabyte P35-DS3R
I'm now hitting reviews for these models.
 
Blah on the Odin. Those things are overpriced, and all the sensor stuff is neat... but the software is bad and, honestly, you don't need to watch all that stuff anyway.

DFI P35-TR2S gets my vote.
 
What features do you need in a motherboard? (3x pci slots? legacy ports? firewire? raid? 8x sata ports? eSATA? etc)
 
Most of these boards look OK to me on paper. I mean they seem to have all the good stuff I need:

At least 1 P-ATA (IDE) port
Onboard 5.1 sound, I need regular jacks, not the S/PDIF kind
Onboard LAN
Also at least 6 USB ports (either backpanel or PCI plate)
Firewire: 6 and 4 pins (one of each, either backpanel or PCI plate)
4 SATA ports
Parallel port would be nice, to plug my LCD screen (I just thought about this)
RAID is optional, but would need 6 SATA
PCI wise, I currently don't use these. So 3 is more than enough.
SLI or Crossfire not needed
eSATA optional

Now it's down to the hidden or virtual features, BIOS settings, stability, etc. Things you can't find on a spec sheet and you don't know about until you get your hands on the unit.

So, a board that will allow OC tweaks is a must. FSB, voltage...
Board should have quite good stock cooling, or at least a removable NB heatsink.
Enough space for a big-ass CPU heatsink (Scythe Ninja and the likes).
 
Again, DFI P35-TR2S. Good cooling (P35s run pretty cool so a /gigantic/ sink isn't necessary) and awesome OC settings. Everything else you need as well. Plus it's not that expensive, relatively speaking.
 
The DFI P35-TR2S lacks Firewire, according to Newegg.

jeece said:
At least 1 P-ATA (IDE) port
Onboard 5.1 sound, I need regular jacks, not the S/PDIF kind
Onboard LAN
Also at least 6 USB ports (either backpanel or PCI plate)
4 SATA ports
eSATA optional
Click to expand...

These features are common amongst most, if not all, P35 boards. You can convert any internal SATA header into an external SATA port.

jeece said:
Firewire: 6 and 4 pins (one of each, either backpanel or PCI plate)
4 SATA ports
Parallel port would be nice, to plug my LCD screen (I just thought about this)
Click to expand...

The combination of these two features is hard to find. So far, the only boards I've found both features in are the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P and -DS4; and the parallel port isn't even on the rear I/O panel -- its an internal header that requires a DB-25 cable. Gigabyte doesn't include this cable in the box, but I'm sure a quick call to customer service can help you with that -- or you can find one online for under $10.

The Asus, Abit, and DFI boards do not have both Firewire and Parallel. So, if you choose one of those boards with firewire, you can either add in a PCI Parallel port card, or get a Parallel to USB adapter.

jeece said:
Now it's down to the hidden or virtual features, BIOS settings, stability, etc. Things you can't find on a spec sheet and you don't know about until you get your hands on the unit.

So, a board that will allow OC tweaks is a must. FSB, voltage...
Board should have quite good stock cooling, or at least a removable NB heatsink.
Enough space for a big-ass CPU heatsink (Scythe Ninja and the likes).
Click to expand...

All boards that have been recommended can OC well. Any board with heatpipe cooling for the nb/mosfets is better than a standard heatsink. And finally, all boards that have been mentioned can all accomodate a big CPU HSF. The DFI boards confuse many people because there are just way too many settings the avg user doesnt want to deal with. The gigabyte DS3/4 series and asus P5K series boards have great OC'ing features, including the ability to save BIOS profiles. The only abit board that can save BIOS profiles is the IP35 Pro.

The DS3P/DS4 boards have 8x SATA ports and include an eSATA PCI adapter bracket, for converting some internal ports into external. The Asus P5K-E WiFi has onboard WiFi, freeing up another expansion card slot. The IP35 Pro is the crowd favorite, and it has a lot of nice touches (onboard power/reset switches, cmos reset on rear i/o panel, uGuru OC'ing sw for windows, individual fan control via uGuru fan EQ, etc). To get those type of luxury features on an Asus or Gigabyte board, you'll reach the $200 mark and/or higher.

You really can't go wrong between any of those boards. I'd go with the DS4 or DS3P, simply because I don't want to have to deal with another PCI card or Adapter for my Laserjet parallel printer, lol.
 
What is settled so far. Until I start getting second thoughts. :rolleyes:
E2160 or E2180
DFI P35-T2RS (I haven't thought of PCI parallel/firewire cards. Good idea. Plus, it's cheap.)
Corsair 550VX

Unsure, ram:
Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 2gb 4-4-4?

Video card (among 8800GT 512mb), I'm leaning toward the Gigabyte, mostly because of cooling (efficient/silent) design. Not sure which revision yet. Or maybe the XFX Alpha Dog. Asus' offers look promising, but are the more expensive of the bunch.
 
CAS4/5 doesn't matter much. Just don't go above five, and get the cheapest Corsair/PQI/OCZ/Crucial/Mushkin/G.Skill/GEIL/TEAM Group/A-Data/Kingston/Patriot kit you can find. $25-35 AR for 2GB, $70-90 AR for 4GB, depending on the brand and other stats more than likely. You'll be better off with a CAS5 4GB kit than a CAS4 2GB kit.

Wouldn't pay more for the ASUS card.

eVGA/XFX or the Gigabyte. If you go eVGA/XFX, I'd get the GTS because the cooling is that much better for not that much more.
 
As much as I'd like 4gb of ram (and I could afford it), I don't know yet if I'll install XP32 or 64 bits (I'm not Vista inclined). I read that XP32 doesn't support 4gb? That's another thing I need to learn about, to see if there could be compatibility issues with a 64 bits OS running 32 bits software. Will check for lower-priced ram though. :D

Now don't tempt me for a GTS. :p I know it's not so much more expensive, but the GT is already a big step above what I planned for a video card. Oh well, maybe I'll aim higher this time. :D
 
Vista 64bit is a much better plan than XP64bit. The drivers are much more widely available and suck far less. If you've not used Vista and are just buying in to all the ranting, I'd suggest you find someone with a similar machine up and running already and see how it works. I'm very happy with Vista 64bit -- about the only issue I've had is that CoreTemp and Vista 64bit don't get along all that great, but there's a widely available, easy to find hack that makes it work just fine.

4GB of RAM and a 32bit OS, it's not so much a compatibility issue as you won't be able to address all of it. You'll see ~3.2-3.4GB of the 4GB, because a 32bit OS can only address 4GB total memory addresses, and some of that address space is used up by the motherboard, sound hardware, and the video memory on your video card.

Also: I always tempt.
 
I gotta admit I'm kinda afraid of the "big move" to Vista. Been running 2000 for a few years now, and got comfortable with it. It's stable (2-3 BSOD per year, max) and not too bloated (< 200mb ram footprint).The only reason I consider to upgrade is that I've noticed recently a few apps/games that only works on XP (though it's the same kernel, wtf?) and up.

My biggest fear is to find my current software (or worse, drivers) incompatible with Vista. CD burning software, antivirus, older version of Photoshop and Illustrator (CS), games. Also, well, the cost of a new OS set me back. :eek: I know it's the logical move though.
 
jeece said:
My biggest fear is to find my current software (or worse, drivers) incompatible with Vista. CD burning software, antivirus, older version of Photoshop and Illustrator (CS), games. Also, well, the cost of a new OS set me back. :eek: I know it's the logical move though.
Click to expand...

Since you're getting new hardware, the likelihood of driver incompatibility with Vista is nil. Though if you use older printers, webcams, etc, double check to see if there are Vista drivers for OR if Vista supports them natively. As for software, if its a pretty popular software that gets updated every once in a while, chances are that it will be compatible with Vista.

This list will give you a good idea of what software is compatible with Vista. Do note that this is an old list and that many more software or software on that list could be better supported under Vista by now:
http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List
 
Danny Bui said:
Since you're getting new hardware, the likelihood of driver incompatibility with Vista is nil. Though if you use older printers, webcams, etc, double check to see if there are Vista drivers for OR if Vista supports them natively. As for software, if its a pretty popular software that gets updated every once in a while, chances are that it will be compatible with Vista.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. :) Thanks a lot for the list - I was looking for something like this.
 
All parts are now ordered. I was able to find a few used bits to help keep the price down.

DFI DK P35-T2RS
E2180 with Scythe Ninja rev B cooler. I will test out a few fans I have lying around.
Mushkin EM PC2-6400 2x2gb
eVGA 8800GTS
Corsair VX550
I threw in a Western Digital Raptor 74gb.
Oh, and a Vista 64 Ultimate DVD.

Now I'll try and keep my promise not to run this computer until the case isn't fully completed. Guess I should get moddin' soon. :D
 
Heads up: your antivirus software probably /won't/ work under Vista 64bit. Hopefully it's Kapersky or NOD32 and you can just download a new client and use the old key, though.
 
Good to know. :)

My older PC had NOD32, not sure of the version, but it's been installed for 2 years. Did a great job, but I was thinking of retiring it. I will probably end up using the Kaspersky IS 7 license I have on my server, and transfer NOD32 on the server.
 
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