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sg05 mini itx nightmare! please help.

R

ReillyRoo

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
76
ok so i just got in the parts for my new mini machine.
here is what ive got:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163149

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

as well as a 9800gtx from my old machine, and 2gb of ddr 800 ram.

i got everything in the case (it was a tight fit)
i have no internal DVD drive yet so i have a usb external plugged in.

i boot her up, play with the bios for a few minutes (was looking for temp, but there was no temp in the bios)

then i pop in the windows 7 disk.
she starts up, i pick my language and then it turns off.
shit.
so i turn her back on, and now i have the dreaded 'bootmgr is missing' error.
i try to boot from the disk but no luck. still this error.

i go back to the bios, and within a few minutes it turns off again.
i check inside, all fans spinning, so i cant see how its a heat issue.

every time i turn it on, it turns off after a few minutes. very very upsetting.

any ideas?
 
Try it without the 9800gtx plugged in. (it has a 9300 integrated you can use for the install)





EDIT: This is sooo wrong. Skip to the next post
You are overloading the lowly 300W PSU that is included.

9800GTX wants 140W at full draw (pulled this data from the nVidia website). And windows probably doesn't cycle it down to lower settings (due to the lack of powerplay in default drivers?).
It's better to know now, that your PSU isn't enough, then to slowly sap your compenent's lifespan from PSU stress.
 
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Well, according to other people's experiences the standard PSU should be able to handle that setup. And it's not like the 9800GTX would draw 140W regardless of power saving settings in the described situation, since it's not under full 3D load. Even the CPU probably shouldn't be fully stressed, and it doesn't consume its TDP value's worth (95W) even at full load.

To the OP, can you check the temps in the BIOS before it "dies"? At least you could see if it's indeed a temp issue or not, regardless of fans (could be a poorly seated cooler for example). Also, trying without the 9800GTX is of course a good idea if it's not the temps that are causing it.
 
yeah... I just found out it has a 16A 12V rail... (19A peak) at 50C.

At inrush, components can use max power (especially dvd drives, but OP doesn't have an internal connected).

@OP: tvih is right, it's probably just heat generation. Make sure you have applied TIM correctly (took me a few times to figure it out...).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16811163149 one of the manufacturer responses show their test machine, so...
 
cant find how to check temps in bios. can you give me an idea of where i would see them. i can see them easily on my other mobo but its a little different layout. this is my first intel and my fist quad core.
i will try it without the gpu, but i hope thats not the issue because i was assured that this psu could handle it.
 
Go to "Integrated Peripherals" and from there to "MCP Hardware Monitor".
 
jeremyshaw said:
yeah... I just found out it has a 16A 12V rail... (19A peak) at 50C.

At inrush, components can use max power (especially dvd drives, but OP doesn't have an internal connected).

@OP: tvih is right, it's probably just heat generation. Make sure you have applied TIM correctly (took me a few times to figure it out...).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16811163149 one of the manufacturer responses show their test machine, so...
Click to expand...

truth be told, i have never installed an intel before. so i accidentally touched some of the thermal paste. (the amds have the paste in the fan and shoot it out onto the chip) so i added some heat sync paste. i can try it again.
 
ok i found the temp.
how hot should it get?

it has climbed 1 degree evey 20 seconds since i turned it on.
its now 47c.
mcp is 35c
cpu smart fan control is disabled
cpu fan control is set to full on.

how much heatsync paste am i suposed to use?
 
it hung out at 48/49 degrees for a minute or so, and just turned off.
is that too hot?

im going to pull the gpu out and see if that works.
 
ReillyRoo said:
ok i found the temp.
how hot should it get?

it has climbed 1 degree evey 20 seconds since i turned it on.
its now 47c.
mcp is 35c
cpu smart fan control is disabled
cpu fan control is set to full on.

how much heatsync paste am i suposed to use?
Click to expand...
EDIT: just follow the PDF instructions, as mine is for AMD systems... The instructions are valid for any TIM, too much, and it starts not working well. Heck, even the stock stuff from XFX (graphics cards) sucks compared to this (about 10C, under load).
1 6mm bb worth.

The pressure from the screws on the heatsink will do the rest.

I don't know why people sometimes bash AS5(really, it is the best retail TIM out there [Thermal Interface Material]), probably because of it's cost (7USD vs 4USD).

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5_intel_quad_wcap.pdf

will help, as I don't wanna do more work!:)

Put the TIM on, dead center, smack dab.
Then twist it 15 degrees, then twist it back (still keeping pressure).
The screws should go in easily, then come to a dead halt. Screw them in a:
quarter of the way, alternating sides diagonally
then half, alternating sides diagonally
then full, alternating sides diagonally
 
Well, 50 degrees certainly isn't hot enough to cause any shutdowns. Something else is up.
 
tvih said:
Well, 50 degrees certainly isn't hot enough to cause any shutdowns. Something else is up.
Click to expand...
I didn't think of that.

Also, it is under more load when installing windows? or is the windows 7 install pretty basic on the CPU?

Idle, I heard doesn't mean as much as load tempuratures.
 
Basically 100 degrees is where you start running into real trouble, shouldn't have any shutdowns before reaching at least that ballpark. Although if it was even 80 something would be wrong in a stock-clocked system.
 
ok guys.
re secured heat sync. took out gpu.
changed HDD to old HDD. same problem. boots. 2 minutes later,,, dies.

what the hell?
 
At this point (I'm sorry here), it's more effective to contact Zotac's support team.

If the board is giving issues (try reseting the BIOS), then it's a toast board.

that OR

There is some electrical/metal piece touching the motherboard that is not supposed to.

EDIT: also, try installing 7 from a flash drive. I had a bunch of issues with incorrectly burned Vista discs... (yeah, they cause plenty-o errors...).

At worst, try USB booting ubuntu or something that supports USB out of the box.

The crashes while just BIOS... dunno.
 
Actually, test it with another system's PSU first (easier, since I am assuming you are posting from a desktop). I still don't like the quality of Case included PSU units.

A generic PSU can/will screw you over, I generally chuck them to the recyle drive.

Then check your cables (swap a few - cables go bad, too). Go to the most basic install setup (just the mobo, hdd, and a usb flash drive with win7 install media - there is a guide for that, google/bing it), before taking the drastic measures I have put in the above post.
 
jeremyshaw said:
At this point (I'm sorry here), it's more effective to contact Zotac's support team.

If the board is giving issues (try reseting the BIOS), then it's a toast board.

that OR

There is some electrical/metal piece touching the motherboard that is not supposed to.

EDIT: also, try installing 7 from a flash drive. I had a bunch of issues with incorrectly burned Vista discs... (yeah, they cause plenty-o errors...).

At worst, try USB booting ubuntu or something that supports USB out of the box.

The crashes while just BIOS... dunno.
Click to expand...

a piece of metal shorting out the MOBO huh. what should i look for? its got the 4 screws in it that hold it down. then it has this wifi adapter that came with the mobo that was an optional atachment, but i followed the directions when isntalling that.
 
ReillyRoo said:
a piece of metal shorting out the MOBO huh. what should i look for? its got the 4 screws in it that hold it down. then it has this wifi adapter that came with the mobo that was an optional atachment, but i followed the directions when isntalling that.
Click to expand...

I posted another post above, sorry.
It's not likely, as you don't have a modded case. I had an issue with metal filings shorting out my motherboard a while back (modded case with a window... whoop de doo:rolleyes:)

What I am posting, all comes back to the PSU.

Test it with another PSU first before calling it dead.
 
on a related note. how to i get rid of this bootmgr missing buisness. i formated the HDD with another computer but its still starting up with bootmgr is missing. is this a bios issue?
 
Don't just reformat. Delete all the partitions in Drive Maneger (inside Control Panel-> Administrator tools-> Device Manager). Then create a new partition and reformat.

However, it's likely in Vista/7's Drive Manager, it's hidden, as it is a boot partition (then a main data partition).

I need to take a shower now, I will stay up, otherwise, for the next 2 hours.

EDIT:hmmm either he signed off, or he turned off his system (posted from) to borrow it's PSU...
 
Last edited:
ok i changed power supplies.
to a corsair 750wat.

i thought that this psu was supposed to work with a dedicated gpu, and i have seen other peoples builds with this case in which it worked.

another thing, i dont know if it matters, but im using a usb external dvd drive to install windows, and its powerd through usb. could this make a significant power draw could over load the psu?
 
well reguardless, if it cant stay on with just one HDD and a USB diskdrive then something is wrong with the psu, and it warrants a return. thats just frustrating, as its just the psu, and not the case that needs replacement.
 
Was the PSU bad?

Also, most USB optical drives draw 2A of power over the 5V usb power feed!!

USB 2.0 is only rated to 500mA!! (0.5A!!).

Lucky you didn't fry anything!

I know some laptops are made be the manufacturer to support upto 2A (hp dv2, for instance), but most desktops aren't!
 
jeremyshaw said:
Was the PSU bad?

Also, most USB optical drives draw 2A of power over the 5V usb power feed!!

USB 2.0 is only rated to 500mA!! (0.5A!!).

Lucky you didn't fry anything!

I know some laptops are made be the manufacturer to support upto 2A (hp dv2, for instance), but most desktops aren't!
Click to expand...

so you think it could be the USB disk drive? u think if i used an internal everything would work?
 
windows instalation worked with the 750 w PSU.
that being said, could it still have been the external USB drive that kept crashing the 300w psu?
 
ReillyRoo said:
so you think it could be the USB disk drive? u think if i used an internal everything would work?
Click to expand...
EDIT: I'm sorry, I didn't see your other post, this one can be ignored...





I think it will, but I would rather you to please, test it without the drive, (use a usb flash drive to install OS, or just browse around in the BIOS - leave it on for 10min?) before purchasing a horribly expensive slim optical disc drive.

I'd rather test to see if it works without the drive, (heck, you can even install windows 7 without the drive), before doing much else.

With windows 7, you can install the OS on another computer, then move the hdd over to your sg05, and it will work (OS will, hardware pending), as long as the CPU brand stays the same (untested otherwise, as I only got a whole bunch of AMD desktops...).
 
ReillyRoo said:
windows instalation worked with the 750 w PSU.
that being said, could it still have been the external USB drive that kept crashing the 300w psu?
Click to expand...

Dunno, now, as the 5V line on that PSU should of been decent enough.

Just don't use the external ODD drive? Sorry, I'm out of ideas now.
 
jeremyshaw said:
Dunno, now, as the 5V line on that PSU should of been decent enough.

Just don't use the external ODD drive? Sorry, I'm out of ideas now.
Click to expand...

ok im going to plug in the old 300w psu, use an interal drive (i have one, but it doesnt fit with the case closed so i will wire it in just to test it out) and see what happens.

windows is completely installed now btw.

ps,
thanks for all of your help.
 
ReillyRoo said:
windows instalation worked with the 750 w PSU.
that being said, could it still have been the external USB drive that kept crashing the 300w psu?
Click to expand...

That drive (all I can find, from ASUS, HP, and a generic for Acer - I have an ASUS and one HP slim external drive), should be drawing 2A from the USB port (check on the bottom of the drive, it shoud have a sticker with '5V' and ?A - replace the ? with the number).

2A is four times the amount of power a USB 2.0 (most recent, 3.0 specs are here, but nobody has them yet :)) port can provide.
 
ReillyRoo said:
ok im going to plug in the old 300w psu, use an interal drive (i have one, but it doesnt fit with the case closed so i will wire it in just to test it out) and see what happens.

windows is completely installed now btw.

ps,
thanks for all of your help.
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

ach... we keep on posting at the same times... lotta posting lag making this conversation seem out of order :cool:
 
ok,
pluged in 300w psu. put in my 9800gtx for good measure. unplugged the usb disk drive
pluged in a esats disk drive.
it is now loaded the way it will eventualy be loaded (when my slim disk drive arives tomorrow from new egg)
i will let it sit for 5 minutes and see if it crashes.
if so, then its a bad psu.

if not, i now know that the psu simply can not handle the disk drive through usb.

now what about other things through usb (x-box controllers, zunes, etc) will those be a problem?
 
ReillyRoo said:
ok,
pluged in 300w psu. put in my 9800gtx for good measure. unplugged the usb disk drive
pluged in a esats disk drive.
it is now loaded the way it will eventualy be loaded (when my slim disk drive arives tomorrow from new egg)
i will let it sit for 5 minutes and see if it crashes.
if so, then its a bad psu.

if not, i now know that the psu simply can not handle the disk drive through usb.

now what about other things through usb (x-box controllers, zunes, etc) will those be a problem?
Click to expand...

Some of my other posts (on this page), touch on this.

First check to see if your USB disc drive draws more then 500mA (there should be a sticker on the bottom of it, or a embossing somewhere with the numbers), Most external disc drives use 2A, far more then the USB port can provide (without errors, like crashing). It's probably just some wierd internal setup with the PSU (SG05 PSU) that crashes your computer with the drive plugged in.

If the USB drive draws more the 500mA, then that, most likely, is the culprit.

Most USB appliances (except for disc drives) use just 500mA, so they are fine.

EDIT: A slim disc drive is a pretty penny!
 
everything is working now.
with the 300w psu, i was able to keep it on for 10 minutes without issue.
i found a strange quark however.

i tested the 3d processing by opening up the windows chess game, and every time i made a move soemthing would make a scratching noise in my machine. then when the piece stopped moving the noise would stop. sort of like the hdd writing but much more noticible. when the computer moved its piece the same thing would happen. not when the computer was thinking ,but when the movement animation happened.

i loaded up the bubbles screen saver to see if it was happening whenever there was a graphical element, but no. just chess so far.
very strange. it could only be my hdd i think.

either way, i have overcome enough technical issues tonight. im heading to bed.
thanks for your help,
and if you have any suggestions on this new phenomenon, please let me know and i will check 'em in the morning.

thanks again.

-reilly
 
ReillyRoo said:
everything is working now.
with the 300w psu, i was able to keep it on for 10 minutes without issue.
i found a strange quark however.

i tested the 3d processing by opening up the windows chess game, and every time i made a move soemthing would make a scratching noise in my machine. then when the piece stopped moving the noise would stop. sort of like the hdd writing but much more noticible. when the computer moved its piece the same thing would happen. not when the computer was thinking ,but when the movement animation happened.

i loaded up the bubbles screen saver to see if it was happening whenever there was a graphical element, but no. just chess so far.
very strange. it could only be my hdd i think.

either way, i have overcome enough technical issues tonight. im heading to bed.
thanks for your help,
and if you have any suggestions on this new phenomenon, please let me know and i will check 'em in the morning.

thanks again.

-reilly
Click to expand...


By the time you see this:

Good morning! :)

I have heard of this before, but never as an Intel issue. (twice on AMD, but that was with dirt cheap motherboards).
But just in case, download a game demo, like Crysis, and try it out. If it is there, then it's definately a problem. See if web browsing causes this, too.
Most people who have this RMA their boards, as it is a mobo issue.

I'll be online in the afternoon (3pm, at PST time).
 
ok ok.
so my computer just died again.
now that you know about the buzzing when i play a 3d game, do you still think its the PSU or do you think its the MOBO thats causing the crash?

which should i RMA?
 
i switched back to the corsair 750w psu and the 3d chess game still makes those noises from the motherboard.

now is this a big enough issue to return the mobo, or should i just worry about returning the psu?

edit:
i removed my gpu and i think that was what was making the noise when 3d graphics were happening.
that being said, it is now the psu which seems to be the power failure culprate.
is it possible i damaged my mobo by using the external dvd drive when it was underpowerd by the psu?
 
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If the shipping is <20USD, then RMA both. (case/psu, and motherboard).

You have a roughly 30 day window from when you buy it, utill the vendor stops giving support (mostly).

It's too hard to isolate the problem from afar, for me, that is.

I'm sorry!
 
dont be sorry, you have been very helpful.
im going to RMA the case/psu, and see what happens. if i have the issue again i will RMA the mobo.
 
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