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SFF Workstation Build

J

jophde

Weaksauce
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
68
Hey,

I want to build a new mobile mITX dev workstation. I am actively trying to remove laptops from my life since I pretty much only use mine docked anyway :).

1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, Photoshop (or other intensive programs), Web browsing, strictly HTPC/Playback, etc. (If you have multiple things you want to do with the system, make sure you rank them from most important to least important).

I will be doing all sorts of development. I mostly do Android and some server development. I need lots of ram for emulators, VMs, containers etc. I might do some light Photoshop work for assets. I also want as many cores and threads as possible. Also, I want m.2 storage. I really only need one 256GB disk.

2. Will you be overclocking? (If so, are you looking to watercool?)

No. I am interested in water cooling though. Probably and AIO system. I mainly want silent and cool operation. The box will probably run close to 24/7.

3. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

My budget is flexible. I primarily want the best value and will spend more to get it if need be. < $1500.

4. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

Bay Area, CA.

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need (especially if you will need 3.5" hard drives or expansion cards as these may restrict case options).

CPU, RAM, m.2 SSD, MOBO w/ Graphics, Case, Power Supply. Everything except for a monitor and k/b mouse.

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

I have a Dell U3014 1600p 30 inch it will be hooked up to most of the time.

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Thunderbolt? Crossfire or SLI support? How many USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

I would like to have the new USB Type C ports. I really don't need anything but an m.2 drive so SATA is a non issue but nice to have.

8. What resolution output do you need? 4k playback, 1080p playback, etc for HTPC or give a vertical/horizontal resolution for gaming SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

It should be able to output up to 4k at 60hz. Movies should be streamable but I won't be streaming. I want to no GUI lag.

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc. Many modern SFF cases have either removed the optical drive or have been constructed so that removing the ODD increases the configuration possibilities immensely.

It will be on a desk. I want the system to be as small and portable as possible. I don't need an optical drive. Front facing usb ports would be nice.

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

I just want something I can put together without much extra work.

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

I prefer it be dead quiet.

12. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

As small and as mobile as possible. I want to replace my laptop. I will probably buy a portable USB screen for it eventually.

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

I will only be running Linux. Probably Arch or something else Debian based. Definitely not Ubuntu.

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

ASAP, but I would wait for Skylake if that makes sense. I don't care if it's Haswell if Ivy/Sandy is a better deal. I don't know anything about AMD but if it's a good deal I will go with that.
 
A few questions, do you really want an AIO cooler if you're not going to overclock and want a quiet build? Is m.2 the priority over sata? Any GPU at all?

Just going with what I think you want:
Mobo: Asus H97I-Plus
CPU: Intel i7 4690
RAM: Any reputable brand 2 x 8gb
M.2 SSD: Samsung SM951 256gb
CPU cooler: Corsair H75
Case: Silverstone SG13
PSU: Corsair RM450
 
Note: Prices rounded up to the nearest dollar for simplicity:

$50: Case (Thermaltake V1 MiniITX Case)
$95: Power Supply (Seasonic M12II 750) Semi-Modular Meets depth restrictions.
$135: MiniITX Motherboard with m.2 (ASRock Z97E-ITX/AC) Make SURE you get the E variant!
$240: CPU (i5 4690K)
$120: Memory (Crucial Ballistix Low Profile Memory) DDR3 1600
$330: GPU (EVGA GTX 970) Meets depth restrictions.
$110: M.2 SSD (Transcend MTS400 256GB)
$225: Hard Drive (Western Digital SE 4TB)
$70: AIO Water Cooler (Thermaltake Water 3.0 Performer)

Total: $1375 +Tax/Shipping

Note: The case itself isn't "small". But it should be fairly mobile, unlike the X series.
On top of that, you actually CAN get a normal sized card and PSU in the thing and work on it.
 
medeyer said:
A few questions, do you really want an AIO cooler if you're not going to overclock and want a quiet build? Is m.2 the priority over sata? Any GPU at all?

Just going with what I think you want:
Mobo: Asus H97I-Plus
CPU: Intel i7 4690
RAM: Any reputable brand 2 x 8gb
M.2 SSD: Samsung SM951 256gb
CPU cooler: Corsair H75
Case: Silverstone SG13
PSU: Corsair RM450
Click to expand...

I definitely don't need an AIO cooler. I always forget how big they are and that water cooling != silent. I definitely want m.2 since they are the drives. I could honestly get by on 128GB storage for this box. 256gb is more comfortable though. I don't need a GPU. It would be nice if the integrated graphics could play CS:GO and SC2 at 1080p.
 
Considering that you want the system to be "dead quiet", then you should check out these three articles on SilentPCReview's (note the name) three attempts to make a quiet/near silent mITX setup:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1431-page6.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Mini-ITX_Gamer_Build_Guide
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_Mini-ITX_Gaming_Build_Guide_3

Each article also comes with audio recordings of the PC themselves so that you can actually see for yourself which one is quieter.
 
Those links are definitely necessary. Are there any cases out there that don't support full size graphics cards? I should be find with Iris level onboard graphics for SC2 and I am shooting for something more the size of a Mac Mini.
 
jophde said:
Those links are definitely necessary. Are there any cases out there that don't support full size graphics cards? I should be find with Iris level onboard graphics for SC2 and I am shooting for something more the size of a Mac Mini.
Click to expand...
Yes as you just saw. There's also the Antec ISK110, ISK100, and ISK 300-150 cases.
jophde said:
Could I fit a quad core, 16gb, and a m.2 drive in one of these?
Click to expand...
Possibly. But I generally don't like recommending mITX setups that require PicoPSUs since the PSU quality is very questionable and where even power brick is an influence. Granted it's from five years ago but this Pico PSU review round up pretty much gave me a very poor impression of Pico PSUs:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=207

In addition, those small cases may be relatively loud considering the relative lack of space and room for a proper cooling setup. Which means that you may have to go with lower clocked parts (and therefore slower) parts for some of those cases. Remember that the Mac Mini uses low-clocked dual-core CPUs.
 
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jophde said:
I definitely don't need an AIO cooler. I always forget how big they are and that water cooling != silent. I definitely want m.2 since they are the drives. I could honestly get by on 128GB storage for this box. 256gb is more comfortable though. I don't need a GPU. It would be nice if the integrated graphics could play CS:GO and SC2 at 1080p.
Click to expand...

The main problems are:

1: You'll looking at small/portable. There aren't a lot of portable ATX setups. And even mATX are fairly bulky. There aren't a lot of ITX setups that sport m.2 ports. And those that do have compatibility guidelines. I agree that you really want a 256. 128 would fill up ridiculously fast.

2: I think you're expecting WAY too much out of integrated graphics.

3: I think you already have a grasp on these issues, which is why your budget is $1500 instead of $1000.

At $1500, you can build an absolutely BEASTLY machine that'll do everything you want it to do (and more). And KEEP doing it for a very VERY long time.

At $1000, you still wind up with a serviceable machine. But one that's simply not going to remain serviceable for more than a couple years. And you'll find yourself compromising well before then.

Hell, with just a couple minutes' work, I was able to pull together an SFF setup that'll do more or less exactly what you want it to do at just over the $600 mark.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=20361754

For an HTPC, hell, even a LIGHT gaming machine, you don't need an i3, i5 or even an i7.

However, in a couple years, you'll find yourself wishing you'd spent more money on the platform in the first place.
 
Just piling on the wealth of information already given in this thread.

If you're looking for dead quiet, you're looking for no movable parts. That means low TDP CPU, no case fans, etc. If you're looking for as small and portable as possible, you're looking for thin mini-itx. The one I can think of that fulfill both requirements is the Akasa Euler. You mount the motherboard upside-down, since the side of the case facing the motherboards upside acts as a passive CPU cooler/heat spread (pretty nifty, actually). It supports a SSD, and iirc comes with a power supply strong enough for your needs. I'm unsure about m2 support. Also supports VESA mounts, to hang behind the screen if you're looking for even more unobtrusiveness.

Here's a review I found when googling for "mini-itx build no moving parts". I'm sure there are plenty more. At the very least it might give some insight into the matter.
http://www.techspot.com/article/667-thin-mini-itx-fanless-pc-build/

And like Chas said, you're probably expecting way too much out of the IGP. I barely found SC2 enjoyable on a 560Ti, and it also got very, very warm (and loud!) when playing CS:GO, even when I capped the FPS to 128.

Sidenote: If the intel K-series is cheaper than the T-series where you live, buy the K-model and underclock it. The advantage is two-fold, cheaper price and possibility to increase performance in the future. A T- and K-model clocked the same will draw as much power and perform equally. This is assuming you've dismissed the G3258 (amazing price/performance, strong single core performance, but only 2 cores).
 
I currently play SC2 and CS:GO at 1080p on a Macbook Pro Retina (650M) and find it good enough at medium settings. This isn't a gaming machine. I am going to do another full tower build for VR and 4k gaming eventually.

Chas, the build looks pretty nice. Thanks for putting that together. Could I replace the Celeron with a better processor. I really want 4C/8T. I won't be overclocking so is the K necessary to get that? Also, I don't need the HDD, just the m.2 drive is enough. Will this give me room for a smaller case?
 
Also, if it's not possible for a box like this to reach 650M levels of game performance that's fine! I don't need to came on it. I just figured the new Intel Graphics could. Likewise, if a 4C/8T CPU won't work with a case like the Alaska Euler just let me know. I do like that case though! It's pretty much exactly what I want.

Here the hardline on what I need hardware wise.

CPU: i7 4C/8T
RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600 (No OC)
Storage: 256GB m.2
Mobo: Audio, Graphics, and built in wifi is a bonus
Case: As small as possible with a good reliable power source. I really like the VESA mount cases but I get that they might not be possible.


I could conceivably go down to 2C/4T if I had too.
 
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jophde said:
I currently play SC2 and CS:GO at 1080p on a Macbook Pro Retina (650M) and find it good enough at medium settings. This isn't a gaming machine. I am going to do another full tower build for VR and 4k gaming eventually.

Chas, the build looks pretty nice. Thanks for putting that together. Could I replace the Celeron with a better processor. I really want 4C/8T. I won't be overclocking so is the K necessary to get that? Also, I don't need the HDD, just the m.2 drive is enough. Will this give me room for a smaller case?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can swap out the proc. The board's the same one I used when I spec'ed out the $1300 one earlier. It's a Z97 board that'll take an i7.

Also, if you're not looking to put a super gaming card into the thing. Maybe look at something like a GTX 750Ti.
Decent card, inexpensive, low power requirements. And a HUGE step up from Integrated.
 
I am assuming an i7 in an Akasa Euler wouldn't be a good idea due to heat right?
 
I wouldn't either. But then again, I wouldn't go for an i7 when aiming for "dead quiet" and portable, since the passive heatsink I'm thinking about is the size of a handbag. You could go for the T-model, or underclock a K-model, but once again I wouldn't, as the price/performance imo wouldn't be worth it.

My tip is that you check benches to see if it's a way you want to go. There are other M350-type chassis that allow for 120mm heatsinks (iirc), but a fan produces noise. Without knowing what you prioritize, and in what order, it's hard to give specific suggestions.
 
jophde said:
I am assuming an i7 in an Akasa Euler wouldn't be a good idea due to heat right?
Click to expand...
Nope, not a good idea at all. With just a regular dual-core Core i3 2100 CPU, the Akasa Euler saw relatively high CPU temps:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2013/07/23/akasa-euler-review/2

Considering that you're talking about something that's literally twice as powerful as the Core i3 2100, no way is the Akasa Euler a good idea.

Anyway, if size is key, then I recommend starting from Chas's build list in post #10 but with the following changes:
- Drop the hard drive

- Up the CPU to this:
$308 - Intel Core i7-4790 CPU

- Add this HSF for lower noise and better cooling:
$45 - Noctua NH-L9i 95mm SSO2 CPU Cooler

It won't be the quietest active cooled mITX setup with a Core i7 possible but it's definitely the smallest good quality mITX setup possible AFAIK.

If you want the quietest active cooler mITX setup possible, then that would mean a relatively large increase in the size of the PC.
 
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Dangman said:
Nope, not a good idea at all. With just a regular dual-core Core i3 2100 CPU, the Akasa Euler saw relatively high CPU temps:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2013/07/23/akasa-euler-review/2

Considering that you're talking about something that's literally twice as powerful as the Core i3 2100, no way is the Akasa Euler a good idea.

Anyway, if size is key, then I recommend starting from Chas's build list in post #10 but with the following changes:
- Drop the hard drive

- Up the CPU to this:
$308 - Intel Core i7-4790 CPU

- Add this HSF for lower noise and better cooling:
$45 - Noctua NH-L9i 95mm SSO2 CPU Cooler

It won't be the quietest active cooled mITX setup with a Core i7 possible but it's definitely the smallest good quality mITX setup possible AFAIK.

If you want the quietest active cooler mITX setup possible, then that would mean a relatively large increase in the size of the PC.
Click to expand...

This is very close to what I want. Size is definitely the priority over size. I am curious, what kind of GPU could I get in that case? Also, are there any case alternatives you would recommend?
 
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jophde said:
This is very close to what I want. Size is definitely the priority over size. I am curious, what kind of GPU could I get in that case? Also, are there any case alternatives you would recommend?
Click to expand...
Well the problem is that adding in a GPU will increase the noise of the PC. But the highest GPU for that case is this XFX R7 240 card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150677

It's roughly equivalent to a GT 650M

I can't really recommend any other case unless you want to forget about low noise and quality as well or don't really care about a size increase for lower noise.
 
If I were to change the the case to an NCASE m1, which I am kind of in love with, what type of cooler and GTX 970 would be a good fit? The Silverstone case just isn't quite small enough for me to justify not having baller 1080p gaming capabilities like I could have a bigger case.

The other thing I am considering is build pretty much identical what was linked earlier, http://www.techspot.com/article/667-thin-mini-itx-fanless-pc-build/, but I am not sure it will have enough umph and I will still need a another gaming build. It would certainly fit in my backpack easy though.
 
jophde said:
If I were to change the the case to an NCASE m1, which I am kind of in love with, what type of cooler and GTX 970 would be a good fit? The Silverstone case just isn't quite small enough for me to justify not having baller 1080p gaming capabilities like I could have a bigger case.
Click to expand...
I linked to an NCase setup earlier already. Just follow that but instead of the 980, go for the 970 version . There you go. With that said, do note the pricing and size man: The $200+ NCase M1 has a volume of 12.6L whereas the $50 ML05 has a volume of 7L.

Just to be clear: You do know that no matter what, with an ITX setup, you'll be limited to 16GB of RAM max, right? Because your OP did say that you need lots of RAM. 16GB of RAM isn't quite a lot for what you described.
jophde said:
The other thing I am considering is build pretty much identical what was linked earlier, http://www.techspot.com/article/667-thin-mini-itx-fanless-pc-build/, but I am not sure it will have enough umph and I will still need a another gaming build. It would certainly fit in my backpack easy though.
Click to expand...
Nope. Still would require a relatively low power CPU.
 
Thanks for all of the ideas! Sorry that I am being difficult. I didn't know much about the boundaries of the mITX world.

I have decided that I am going to save the ncase for a mITX x99 Titan X build down the line. For this build I want to go thin mITX in as small of a case as possible. Quietness is less of a priority. I also, decided that I can live with 128GB storage for this machine. Anyway, here is where I am at with the build. I would love some critiques.

Intel Core i5-4570S Quad Core

Gigabyte LGA 1150 H87 SODIMM

16 GB G.SKILL DDR3 1600 1.5V 10-10-10

Transcend 128GB SATA III mSATA

Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC Bluetooth Chip

Thermal Cooling Compound

Silverstone Tek Aluminum Thin Mini-ITX

I am still trying to figure out what power adapter and CPU cooler I need.

Will the Noctura fit this case?

Will this power brick work?
 
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Dangman said:
Just to be clear: You do know that no matter what, with an ITX setup, you'll be limited to 16GB of RAM max, right? Because your OP did say that you need lots of RAM. 16GB of RAM isn't quite a lot for what you described.
Click to expand...

I really would like to have 2gb per thread so I either want 2C/4T 8GB or 4C/8T 16GB.
 
I'm going to suggest that you look into getting a Broadwell NUC at this point. Might be more suitable and cheaper.
 
Wow this is a great product. Do you know when the i7 with iris 6100 will be out?
 
jophde said:
Wow this is a great product. Do you know when the i7 with iris 6100 will be out?
Click to expand...
It really isn't that good of a product: Despite the name, the Core i7 Broadwell NUCs are actually dual-core CPUs but with HT. Again, going back to your OP, your needs sounds like it requires more power than what a dual-core with HT can provide.

As for your planned build, it's not that good for a few reasons:
1) That Notchua HSF will not fit that case. Yoou need this HSF for that case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220065

Even then that's just a chance as well as different mobos means different HSF placements/issues.

2) 128GB is too low man. Stick with a 256GB SSD as much as possible. I can guarantee you that you're going to want more space once you use that system.

3) AS5 is outdated these days. Go for MX4 instead.

4) That RAM is stupidly overpriced. You can get two of this RAM stick and be set:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231579
 
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