Server build

[German Muscle]

Im putting this here in case someone asks one of these questions and because its required. Im plenty able to pick out parts for my setup though.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? I will be using it as a server. Primarily for data storage. I will also use it for testing gameservers, offloading rendering, and just playing with.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included? Would like to keep it around 600 but 800 Max.
3) Which country do you live in? Not relavant.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? Case, PSU, CPU, CPU Cooler, RAM, Motherboard, HDDs, ODD, O/S
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? None
6) Will you be overclocking? Negative.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? Not Relavant.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Not relavant
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? Plenty of on board SATA 3GB. If i run out i can add a controller in later. RAID, on board video likely to keep power, heat and space usage to a minimum.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? No, Will be getting Server 2008 R2

Now that we got that out of the way. Im really torn. When i first started looking i was just going to buy a prebuilt one like a Dell Poweredge 1950 as i was really wanting something 1u that i could mount under my desk out of the way. I then realized that 1u servers are insanely loud. This is my first preference. I looked at the Asus ASUS RS100-E7/PI2 Barebones. I was told not to get an Asus server and to get a Supermicro. I looked around and couldnt find something that fit what i wanted which is: Slim ODD slot not 10 miles deep and had plenty of HDD bays. I would like at least 6 or more with hotswap being a bonus. 1U or 2U is fine and maybe even a 3U.

After this search i moved onto just building one. so i started looking for an enclosure. i wanted a small enclosure but plenty of HDD slots, filters, good flow patterns, and it had to look good. It came down to the Lian Li PC-Z60, Lian Li PC-A05FNB, and the Silverstone SST-TJ04B-E.

I noticed most of these cases i looked at were kind of big so i thought about going mATX. I narrowed that down to the Silverstone FT03B and the Silverstone SST-TJ08B-E. My question is what all am i loosing by going with mATX over ATX feature and performance wise?

Overall Which would you go with? If you have recomendations for the rackmount then post up those as i would like to see them. Or would you go ATX or mATX and why?

 

[Dangman]

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included? Would like to keep it around 600 but 800 Max.
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? Case, PSU, CPU, CPU Cooler, RAM, Motherboard, HDDs, ODD, O/S
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? No, Will be getting Server 2008 R2

Doesn't Win2K8 R2 cost like $300 or $400 alone?

Now if noise is a huge concern, then a 1U or 2U is probably not gonna work out for you.

After this search i moved onto just building one. so i started looking for an enclosure. i wanted a small enclosure but plenty of HDD slots, filters, good flow patterns, and it had to look good. It came down to the Lian Li PC-Z60, Lian Li PC-A05FNB, and the Silverstone SST-TJ04B-E.

I noticed most of these cases i looked at were kind of big so i thought about going mATX. I narrowed that down to the Silverstone FT03B and the Silverstone SST-TJ08B-E. My question is what all am i loosing by going with mATX over ATX feature and performance wise?

Well you're losing hard drive expansion capability with mATX over ATX. Most maTX motherboards and cases only have 3-6 hard drive slots. Some mATX cases have fairly good cooling but they're still gonna run inherently hotter than other ATX cases out there.

Overall Which would you go with? If you have recomendations for the rackmount then post up those as i would like to see them. Or would you go ATX or mATX and why?

If going for rackmoust, want to stick to that 3U hard limit, and if you want as much storage as possible, I'd go with this Norco:
$340 - Norco RPC-3216 3U Rackmount Chassis

It has 16 hot-swap bays for $340. Considering that 5in3 hot-swap bays cost around $85 to $100 alone, that makes the Norco RPC-3216 a really excellent deal IMO for hot-swap bays.

But if you don't want a rackmount, want as much storage as possible but at close to max price to performance, I'd go with this ATX case setup:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$24 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4 in 3 Device Module w/ 120mm Fan
---------
Total: $74 shipped

12 hard drive capability (8 without the 4in3 module), looks good IMO, and has a pretty good airflow setup.

But if you're talking about the cases you listed, I would not go with the FT03B since it's fairly overpriced IMO for a mATX case. Not to mention that it only has 3 x 3.5" drive capability. The TJ08B-E is a good case and pretty decently priced if you get it from Amazon.com. But the TJ08B-E only has 4 drive capability, only slightly better than the FT03B. Out of the ATX cases you listed, my personal favorite is the Silverstone TJ04B-E as it's the right mix of high quality, drive capability, and expansion capabiltiy. But it's pretty much sold out at a lot of good online retailers. And that rounds up the Silverstones.

As for the Lian Li cases you posted, the Lian Li PC-A05FNB doesn't make sense to me for a file server: While you get the advantage of a ATX mobo which can have 6 to 8 SATA ports off the bat, you get the disadvatange of a mATX case with its 3 x 3.5 SATA drive capability. So for a file server, it's not a good choice IMO. The Lian Li PC-Z60 is a beautiful case. A little pricey but a good case nonetheless.

 

[German Muscle]

Doesn't Win2K8 R2 cost like $300 or $400 alone?

Now if noise is a huge concern, then a 1U or 2U is probably not gonna work out for you.

The Asus is a silent one but like i said i was told not to get asus. If the rack case is large enough or has enough room i can put a Corsair H40 to cool the CPU silently.

Well you're losing hard drive expansion capability with mATX over ATX. Most maTX motherboards and cases only have 3-6 hard drive slots. Some mATX cases have fairly good cooling but they're still gonna run inherently hotter than other ATX cases out there.


If going for rackmoust, want to stick to that 3U hard limit, and if you want as much storage as possible, I'd go with this Norco:
$340 - Norco RPC-3216 3U Rackmount Chassis

It has 16 hot-swap bays for $340. Considering that 5in3 hot-swap bays cost around $85 to $100 alone, that makes the Norco RPC-3216 a really excellent deal IMO for hot-swap bays.

I know im loosing HDD bays at the expense of size for matx but the size is appealing. I like that rackmount case though. I do find it weird how it supports ATX motherboards but the expansion slot count seems to only support mATX.

But if you don't want a rackmount, want as much storage as possible but at close to max price to performance, I'd go with this ATX case setup:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$24 - Cooler Master STB-3T4-E3-GP 4 in 3 Device Module w/ 120mm Fan
---------
Total: $74 shipped

12 hard drive capability (8 without the 4in3 module), looks good IMO, and has a pretty good airflow setup.

Im not against putting a couple HDDs in the 5.25 bays. for ATX i only want those particular cases though. If its a regular computer case i want it to look good next to my Corsair 700D

But if you're talking about the cases you listed, I would not go with the FT03B since it's fairly overpriced IMO for a mATX case. Not to mention that it only has 3 x 3.5" drive capability. The TJ08B-E is a good case and pretty decently priced if you get it from Amazon.com. But the TJ08B-E only has 4 drive capability, only slightly better than the FT03B. Out of the ATX cases you listed, my personal favorite is the Silverstone TJ04B-E as it's the right mix of high quality, drive capability, and expansion capabiltiy. But it's pretty much sold out at a lot of good online retailers. And that rounds up the Silverstones.

I really like the FT03B. It is only restricted to 3x 3.5 bays but it also has a 2.5 bay to. Im not opposed to running a 2.5 hdd or SSD for the server boot drive at all. All of the storage drives will be 3.5 though. It is the most restrictive as far as drive bays go but it has the smallest footprint and looks pretty awesome. The TJ08 supports 5x 3.5 HDDs and a 2.5 HDD.

As for the Lian Li cases you posted, the Lian Li PC-A05FNB doesn't make sense to me for a file server: While you get the advantage of a ATX mobo which can have 6 to 8 SATA ports off the bat, you get the disadvatange of a mATX case with its 3 x 3.5 SATA drive capability. So for a file server, it's not a good choice IMO. The Lian Li PC-Z60 is a beautiful case. A little pricey but a good case nonetheless.

The a05FNB was a contender because of its small size and it will house 2x 2.5 drives as well as 4x 3.5 drives.

Im not looking to have a 20 terabyte setup or anything realy. Just something to back files up to and keep things on. I have a 2TB external drive for that now and it would be nice and faster with a mild file server with like 4 3tb disks for storage.

 

[Dangman]

The Asus is a silent one but like i said i was told not to get asus. If the rack case is large enough or has enough room i can put a Corsair H40 to cool the CPU silently.

Probably not silent though: SPCR noted that those self-contained water cooling kits have a noisy pump.

I know im loosing HDD bays at the expense of size for matx but the size is appealing. I like that rackmount case though. I do find it weird how it supports ATX motherboards but the expansion slot count seems to only support mATX.

You can fit an ATX mobo in that case but apparently you can't use the last three slots on an ATX mobo.

Im not against putting a couple HDDs in the 5.25 bays. for ATX i only want those particular cases though. If its a regular computer case i want it to look good next to my Corsair 700D

Fair enough. Probably should have made that clearer before I started recommending other ATX cases.

I really like the FT03B. It is only restricted to 3x 3.5 bays but it also has a 2.5 bay to. Im not opposed to running a 2.5 hdd or SSD for the server boot drive at all. All of the storage drives will be 3.5 though. It is the most restrictive as far as drive bays go but it has the smallest footprint and looks pretty awesome.

Good for you. But I still don't think that FT03B is a good case for a file server unless you really love that case and really don't mind only have three 3.5 drives for storage

The TJ08 supports 5x 3.5 HDDs and a 2.5 HDD.

The a05FNB was a contender because of its small size and it will house 2x 2.5 drives as well as 4x 3.5 drives.

Oh you counted the external 3.5" drive. I didn't.

Ok, now what exactly do you want? You first said "had plenty of HDD bays. I would like at least 6 or more with hotswap being a bonus" in regards to the rackmount case but now it seems like you're fine with 3 to 4 drive capability. Or do you have two different requirements list for the two case types?

 

[German Muscle]

Probably not silent though: SPCR noted that those self-contained water cooling kits have a noisy pump.

Let me rephrase. Quiet. It doesnt have to be a zero noise system. I have a H50 in my current rig and the fans are louder then the pump. It will be fine as long as its not like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhwARR08N1E

You can fit an ATX mobo in that case but apparently you can't use the last three slots on an ATX mobo.

Thats a bummer. Ill still consider it though.

Fair enough. Probably should have made that clearer before I started recommending other ATX cases.

No big deal. Just looking for the best possible solution.

Good for you. But I still don't think that FT03B is a good case for a file server unless you really love that case and really don't mind only have three 3.5 drives for storage

Good for me? It likely isnt the best for a fileserver.

Oh you counted the external 3.5" drive. I didn't.

Ok, now what exactly do you want? You first said "had plenty of HDD bays. I would like at least 6 or more with hotswap being a bonus" in regards to the rackmount case but now it seems like you're fine with 3 to 4 drive capability. Or do you have two different requirements list for the two case types?

Yes i counted the external 3.5 as i dont plan to use it for a floppy or anything. Plenty of HDDs yes. Sorry i wasnt clear before. I know that smaller cases will cut off the total number of HDDs. 6 is optimal but 4 would be the minimum in most cases. mATX requirement would be 4 3.5 inch HDDs and 1-2 2.5 HDDs. ATX would be 6 3.5 HDDs.
Though with both sacrifices would be acceptable if the case is small and looks beautiful.

Basically my initial questions were. Is there a OEM rackmount server or a aftermarket rackmount case that will meet my requirements.

Would there be any performance loss or gain when switching between mATX and ATX. I know the sata port count drops as does expansion slots. If there was any cases that would fit what my requirements are that i didnt see.

 

[Dangman]

Let me rephrase. Quiet. It doesnt have to be a zero noise system. I have a H50 in my current rig and the fans are louder then the pump. It will be fine as long as its not like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhwARR08N1E

Gotcha.

Good for me? It likely isnt the best for a fileserver.

Sorry, it sounded like you were gonna buy that case for your file server despite its limitations.

Yes i counted the external 3.5 as i dont plan to use it for a floppy or anything. Plenty of HDDs yes. Sorry i wasnt clear before. I know that smaller cases will cut off the total number of HDDs. 6 is optimal but 4 would be the minimum in most cases. mATX requirement would be 4 3.5 inch HDDs and 1-2 2.5 HDDs. ATX would be 6 3.5 HDDs.
Though with both sacrifices would be acceptable if the case is small and looks beautiful.

What about mITX? Specifically, I mean this Lian Li mITX case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339

Has the ability to fit 7 drives. Granted you will have to buy an add-on controller card as most good mITX mobos only have 4 SATA ports but it's fairly small and looks great IMO. Here's a user review of it (Don't get the parts listed though as those are outdated and no longer available for sale):
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/201...i-pc-q25b-black-mini-itx-tower-computer-case/

To answer your question, in terms for performance, there's really no noticeable performance difference between ATX, mATX, and mITX. Obviously there's a big features difference. But the other big substantial difference is heat: Generally the smaller you go, the higher the chances of the mobo being hotter running due to all the parts being in closer proximity with one another as you go smaller. But that can be negated a bit with using lower power parts and having great cooling.

As for other rackmount cases, I found another case that might fit your requirements:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219022

 

[German Muscle]

Gotcha.

Sorry, it sounded like you were gonna buy that case for your file server despite its limitations.

Nah. I love the cases looks and concept alot but the internals isnt the most effecient way of doing it.

What about mITX? Specifically, I mean this Lian Li mITX case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112339

Has the ability to fit 7 drives. Granted you will have to buy an add-on controller card as most good mITX mobos only have 4 SATA ports but it's fairly small and looks great IMO. Here's a user review of it (Don't get the parts listed though as those are outdated and no longer available for sale):
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/201...i-pc-q25b-black-mini-itx-tower-computer-case/

I think mITX cuts to many features i could use out and like you said more things would have to be bought.

To answer your question, in terms for performance, there's really no noticeable performance difference between ATX, mATX, and mITX. Obviously there's a big features difference. But the other big substantial difference is heat: Generally the smaller you go, the higher the chances of the mobo being hotter running due to all the parts being in closer proximity with one another as you go smaller. But that can be negated a bit with using lower power parts and having great cooling.

As for other rackmount cases, I found another case that might fit your requirements:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219022

Not really feeling the layout of that one. One thing that i have noticed today is most 2u servers are lopro expansion card and 3u is fullsize and 1u is fullsize sideways. Ive been thinking of putting a single slot GTS450 in it as well for cuda. The best lopro gpu i could find was a GTS250 but its discontinued.

If i can find a OEM server id like to find a dual lga1366 but if i build my own it will prolly be a Z68/Xeon E3-1245 setup.

Also here is a shot of my desk to give you an idea of what i would do with the rackmount since id prefer doing a rackmount.

for a 1 or 2 u i would mount it flat up on the bottom of the desk with the front facing towards the file cabinet. for a 3u i would put it on the left leg and make L shaped brackets out of billet that will mount to the leg and all of the bolt holes in the rack tabs.

 

[Dangman]

Mind if I move this thread over to the Data Storage Subforum? The guys there know more about server cases than the guys in this subforum or the cases subforum.

 

[German Muscle]

Sure.

 

[Dangman]

Moved to the Data Storage subforum

Let's see if you get any more opinions here.

 

[nowwhatnapster]

Let me set the record straight before I give you any advice. I am no way an expert on rackmount stuff. I am a home user who decided it would be "fun" to rackmount my whole home office. You can checkout my thread if your bored.

Now that that is out of the way, here is my 2 cents:

4u 3u 2u 1u? The bigger the case, the more options you have. The more options you have, the cheaper the prices. What does a 4u case offer? ATX PSU's, Full height expansion cards, 120mm fans. Whats wrong with 3u? I dont think 120mm fans fit, ATX PSU's have to be rotated 90 degrees to fit which eats into your Mobo space. 2u? Now its getting tight, low profile expansion cards, limited PSU selection, tiny CPU heatsinks, 80mm fans. 1u? Ugh maybe like 1 expansion card if mounted sideways, REALLY tiny heatsinks that require jet engines to keep cool.

Ok you can see where im going with this. If your just some guy that wants to play around with server hardware go for a big case. It will save you a headache or two.

Now negatives for 3u/4u cases? They can get heavy. Load them up with harddrives and your looking at 50lbs+. I'm not sure if that desk of yours is made of solid wood. It might not be up to the task.

If you go for a big case, do yourself a favor and mount it on some sliding rails. It will save your back. Even if its going to be powered on 24/7 and headless, shit will happen, you'll need to dust it or tweak something. It will be a PITA to get that big sheet of metal off the top.

As for rackmount cases Norco seems to offer the best bang for your entry level stuff. Their hot-swap cases are a good deal. Also consider getting yourself a discrete controller card that uses a SFF-8087 so you have 1 cable per 4 HDDs. Cuts down on clutter. If you like the idea of hot swap but don't want to commit to a case designed for it you can buy something like the RPC-470 /450 and put a hot swap unit into the 5.25" bays.

 

[Plastikman]

If your upfront needs are only 4-6 3.5" Drives, you might concider looking at the HP N40L http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859107052

It is an all in one solution. You can get 5-6 drives into it with minimal cost and effort and a bios reflash. it runs pretty much any OS you toss at it. that price is hard to pass up.

however, It is not a rack mount and is pretty limited in expansion. it looks like you could fit it into your office it would feel at home.

You can always save up for a bigger better and do more research while this one gets you started..

 

[German Muscle]

Let me set the record straight before I give you any advice. I am no way an expert on rackmount stuff. I am a home user who decided it would be "fun" to rackmount my whole home office. You can checkout my thread if your bored.

Now that that is out of the way, here is my 2 cents:

4u 3u 2u 1u? The bigger the case, the more options you have. The more options you have, the cheaper the prices. What does a 4u case offer? ATX PSU's, Full height expansion cards, 120mm fans. Whats wrong with 3u? I dont think 120mm fans fit, ATX PSU's have to be rotated 90 degrees to fit which eats into your Mobo space. 2u? Now its getting tight, low profile expansion cards, limited PSU selection, tiny CPU heatsinks, 80mm fans. 1u? Ugh maybe like 1 expansion card if mounted sideways, REALLY tiny heatsinks that require jet engines to keep cool.

Ok you can see where im going with this. If your just some guy that wants to play around with server hardware go for a big case. It will save you a headache or two.

Now negatives for 3u/4u cases? They can get heavy. Load them up with harddrives and your looking at 50lbs+. I'm not sure if that desk of yours is made of solid wood. It might not be up to the task.

If you go for a big case, do yourself a favor and mount it on some sliding rails. It will save your back. Even if its going to be powered on 24/7 and headless, shit will happen, you'll need to dust it or tweak something. It will be a PITA to get that big sheet of metal off the top.

As for rackmount cases Norco seems to offer the best bang for your entry level stuff. Their hot-swap cases are a good deal. Also consider getting yourself a discrete controller card that uses a SFF-8087 so you have 1 cable per 4 HDDs. Cuts down on clutter. If you like the idea of hot swap but don't want to commit to a case designed for it you can buy something like the RPC-470 /450 and put a hot swap unit into the 5.25" bays.

I think 3U seems to be about right. Id like smaller but this isnt a perfect world. It has standard sized fans, full height expansion slots, atx psu or redundant. With the addition of the graphics card to do CUDA im thinking of also putting a Ceton InfiniTV in it to act as a DVR to record shows and delete them. The fans not being 12cm isnt a big deal. While i will be using a self contained water cooler for the cpu i can fabricate a mount so it diagonally so it pulls air through it. It becomes exponentially harder to get one to work the smaller the U.

I think i like the Norcos as well. I cant find the different in the RPC-3216 and the RPC-3116 thought. I will check into the SDD-8087.

Im not concerned with the desk. the top is a solid 1.25 inches of Mohagany and the leg is 1.25 inches thick plywood. It should hold 50 lbs no problem. If i make L brackets that mount to the leg and that fit the holes on the rackmount tabs so it basically hangs it wouldnt be a problem. It would actually be less of a headache then my tower to deal with. The server is to tall to mount it up under the desk. I would band my knees on it if it was under there. The desk is also not deep enough to put it on rails.

If your upfront needs are only 4-6 3.5" Drives, you might concider looking at the HP N40L http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859107052

It is an all in one solution. You can get 5-6 drives into it with minimal cost and effort and a bios reflash. it runs pretty much any OS you toss at it. that price is hard to pass up.

however, It is not a rack mount and is pretty limited in expansion. it looks like you could fit it into your office it would feel at home.

You can always save up for a bigger better and do more research while this one gets you started..

Thats a killer price to get into it but i need one that can also offload rendering jobs to as well. Gotta be Intel 1366 or 1155 otherwise i might as well just render it all on my current rig.

 

[Dangman]

I think i like the Norcos as well. I cant find the different in the RPC-3216 and the RPC-3116 thought. I will check into the SDD-8087

The main difference between the 3116 and 3216 is that the 3116 requires you to individually connect each hot-swap bay via SATA cable to a storage controller. That's 16 SATA cables right there. The 3216 just requires four SFF-8087 cables to connect all 16 hot-swap bays to the storage controller. The 3116 is cheaper over at Mwave.com but obviously requires significantly more work

 

[Plastikman]

Thats a killer price to get into it but i need one that can also offload rendering jobs to as well. Gotta be Intel 1366 or 1155 otherwise i might as well just render it all on my current rig.

I missed that tidbit. You are correct that CPU is weak.

The Norco RPC-3216 vs the RPC-3116. it is the Backplane connectors. the 3116 has four standard SATA connectors per backplane, the 3216 has a single SAS connector per backplane.

If you are using HBA or raid cards with SAS SFF-8087 connectors, you will have very nice cable management. you can also get "Reverse Breakout" cables to connect the Sff-8087 backplane to your motherboards sata connectors. i like the Norcos with the SFF-8087 plugs myself. less chance of a bad connection.

Sorry for the low light poor cellphone image.
This is one of my RPC-4224's, I have mixed backplanes in it.
The top backplane is the x1xx style, (warranty repair sent me the wrong backplane)
The 5 under it are the x2xx style. notice the single connector.