kingtron
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2017
- Messages
- 254
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project
- Thread starter SaperPL
- Start date
Absolutely, Ryzen, but there's quite a difference between constructive criticism and just sniping at each other.
Even if the message behind each is the same, the way that message will be interpreted and absorbed (or not) will vary wildly depending on how much hostility is perceived to be behind it.
Even if the message behind each is the same, the way that message will be interpreted and absorbed (or not) will vary wildly depending on how much hostility is perceived to be behind it.
I've talked about this already - this card doesn't really blow the air out through the slot, but through the end of the shroud hoping to blow it away through the next slot. If you want to use additional drives under the card it might work, but you'll have to make sure the card isn't recycling the hot air inside. For SLI it won't work in Sentry, and you'd need to bifurcate the pci-e slot somehow.
This card would be perfect for this kind of chassis (which is quite common cheap sff) if both sides of the cover were perforated:
There were quite a lot results of various SKUs ranging from first i7s, through sandy bridge up to most recent generations. I agree that Prime95 gives out high temps, but for some chips gaming temps were also quite high. Anyway I was hoping you remember what happened to the list. That was quite a good batch of tests gathered in one place.
The subject came up because dondan's cooler was brought up and we wanted to warn people that it might not be the silver bullet increasing thermal capabilities of either of the cases. We've noticed that whenever someone posts some far fetched concept on performance or hardware compatibility, we get quite a lot of messages asking about this from people lurking here that would blindly build their setups based on what someone's stated in the forums. And a group of the ones that are asking is most likely the small part of such people.
The fact that there is a possibly better cooler on the horizon for some means they can push their config to the limits (size/fitting limits), as well as the fact that one of the backers that already got his Sentry is using 1080TI effects in another wave of people asking for 1080TI compatibility. We don't want people to overpay for the build that will throttle without understanding the consequences, because they will end up blaming the case itself rather than understanding their mistake.
dondan may not be directly stating that the cooler is indeed the best on the market for this size, but people will get hyped and state it will do what dondan's just aiming it to do, before it is even independently tested, thus spreading misleading information.
dondan's cooler may not happen (campaign may not succeed) and if happens it may not really make a significant difference for the CPUs with high TDP. We want to note this bluntly to warn people that may not be tech savvy about building their rigs based on yet non-existing component.
In effect dondan as always shows his need to appear in this thread to protect his "legacy" and show off his dominance by presenting some results stating his case "won" ....
Hahutzy disappeared before the "witch-hunt" just when he were supposedly getting the second prototype, I think. Either life happened and he has no time for the project or he figured out something wouldn't work in his project and gave up (someone noticed he's logged in on sff forum some time after his dissapearance, so he's been lurking a bit). Hopefully nothing happend to him.
I see. But ti's still a 250W monster, which - from what I understand from my previous discussion with Saper in this topic - is not recommended due to thermal reasons.
I wonder what kind of temp he's getting and how the card is behaving in general.
It would be good to get more benchmarks from other games. Ghost Recon may not necessarily use whole chip as 1080TI is massive in terms of stream processor count.
I think 1080TI FE *might* be okay, while all non-reference units are at the real risk since open air coolers could recycle hot air and push some of it to the CPU with 250W of heat to dissipate.
1080TI FE has quite a big vent at the bracket so it can push a lot of hot air out quickly
1080 FE for comparison:
Note the fact that middle of the bracket will be blocked off by the middle bar between slots, so theoretically 1080TI FE has 50% bigger exhaust vent than 1080 FE.
To make sure that 1080 TI is okay, we'd have to get results of test with such specs:
1) full GPU load, either disabled vsync without CPU bottleneck or some high resolution like 4K
2) multiple AAA titles extensively using such amount of stream processors
3) logging FPS for drops, core loads, temps and clocks
We're definitely won't be "green lighting" non-reference cards, even if gigabyte's windforce 3X fits and performs well, because people are looking at this card and thinking "if this card fits, then that similar card with 3 fans will fit as well"...
I know i only mentioned Ghost Recon in my post, but this was tested several hours at full GPU load @1440p with no type of v-sync or any CPU bottlenecking. I'll gladly contribute with some more tests if you'd want this.
I used Ghost Recon as an example since this is what i play at the moment, and because it represents the demands of new AAA titles pretty well.
Thanks for the reasonable post (though the dondan jab at the very end undermines it). Don't worry about having complete control over how the community uses your case because some people will always try to push the envelope and others will just buy things without reading. The latter group will likely send you frustrating emails, that's just life. Just stick with giving conservative recommendations or pointing to the nice google doc in the first post.
Yeah that's true, but look at your conduct there and here. Soft skills, man!
Softs skills are important, but without laying out critical problems bluntly in the community where not everyone is tech savvy English native speaker, it'll drown under the hype talk fast. Me being a manufacturer now doesn't change the fact that I'm a part of the community as well and I can commit to other projects.
Note the fact that I "softly" asked Hahutzy about this early on when he benchmarked the prototype and he quickly promised to check that out without following up on such critical problem in months. Without laying out the problem so bluntly, noone noticed and others continued to praise and hype this design with unrealistic test results.
You should as well take into account the possibility that there may be people wanting to make a prototype, gather the funds for the project and disappear or simply don't care that their product is falsely advertised and thus community should be cautious about crowdfunding-oriented projects.
For those few years now with this thread I've seen that to be heard on critical problems you have to lay it out blunt for others to understand and feel the importance of it. So now it's just my approach to things
It would be good to get more benchmarks from other games. Ghost Recon may not necessarily use whole chip as 1080TI is massive in terms of stream processor count.
I think 1080TI FE *might* be okay, while all non-reference units are at the real risk since open air coolers could recycle hot air and push some of it to the CPU with 250W of heat to dissipate.
1080TI FE has quite a big vent at the bracket so it can push a lot of hot air out quickly
1080 FE for comparison:
Note the fact that middle of the bracket will be blocked off by the middle bar between slots, so theoretically 1080TI FE has 50% bigger exhaust vent than 1080 FE.
To make sure that 1080 TI is okay, we'd have to get results of test with such specs:
1) full GPU load, either disabled vsync without CPU bottleneck or some high resolution like 4K
2) multiple AAA titles extensively using such amount of stream processors
3) logging FPS for drops, core loads, temps and clocks
We're definitely won't be "green lighting" non-reference cards, even if gigabyte's windforce 3X fits and performs well, because people are looking at this card and thinking "if this card fits, then that similar card with 3 fans will fit as well"...
While I understand that more testing is necessary in order to reach conclusions on what the overall performance will be, I want to say that Ghost Recon wildlands is a great tesitng example. Ghost Recon was built alongside NVIDIA development team in preparation for the upcoming bundle. Therefore if you look closely at what the game features. It is the latest AAA game that uses all of NVIDIA features in one game which makes it an ideal test game. Given that no other game will use any of the GPU's technologies that are not already included in Wildlands. There are multiple articles for how wildlands used all of these NVIDIA technlogies and there is the GDC presentation that goes more in depth. I made my comment because I knew this beforehand.
With that said, I also would like more tests as well if niclas90 has the time and I will be running multiple test once I get my case.
illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
Yes I agree with that. The Sentry and the Dan are both great cases that both work really well.
The cooler spreadsheet is is still here. It is frequently edited, check the revision history if the number of entries seems low. (For some reason they get reorganized every day and disappear and reappear--ask Shaav.)
If you try to put the same high level CPU hardware in the Sentry as the Dan, unless there is some sort of magic portal to an alternate universe within the Sentry that changes the laws of thermodynamics in this case, you will probably see the same (high) temps at load. The modifications people were doing (delidding, using different fans, removing motherboard heatsinks) are fairly tame and simply meant to push the envelope of what you can do with a slim SFF cooler in a tiny case. So, while it's probably easier to just pick a low wattage CPU (65w or less) and be done with it, you CAN get a high watt chip, if you want to tinker a bit.
illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
No, I edited the post. The link is weird with this forum software, it wants to tag it as google media. It's available.
The sheet has always been public.
That's why I couldn't view or copy the link to this from A4-SFX thread.
What happened to all other SKUs? there's only i7-6700K now.
EDIT: at least the history is still intact - if someone's interested, browse history through different revisions for other SKUs
What happened to all other SKUs? there's only i7-6700K now.
EDIT: at least the history is still intact - if someone's interested, browse history through different revisions for other SKUs
Last edited:
illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
Well, rejoice! Bask in the possibly flawed data points of hundreds of random people. (Including myself.)
illram
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1,473
Yes, see above. Check the revision history as for some reason Shaav (I think) cuts a bunch of entries each day and then pastes them back later, and I have never figured out why. But they always come back unadulterated and if you need them now they are always in the revision history.
Last edited:
Thanks. This is not the first time I have been forced to order a project from the Asian market. Hopefully the cooler fares better than my 1440p monitor.
riba2233
Weaksauce
- Joined
- May 7, 2017
- Messages
- 69
Yep, I've also ordered it, so we'll see how it compares to stock wraith spire. Price is hard to beat!
12th week of Sentry manufacturing process
This week's update we are dedicating to answer your questions about manufacturing and shipping process. We will cover each subject point-by-point.
Ok. Let's start:
1) Do not worry about your order not being fulfilled. We have calculated everything in terms of money and every backer will get his Sentry. Production and shipping process needs just a little bit more time than we estimated.
2) We are processing 150 cases per transport (according to our production scheme), so we could send alternately black and white units.
3) April never was a time of delivery for all the packages, but it was an estimated month when we should start the shipping process. Indiegogo doesn't show it properly as in campaigner back-end, that is why we have shown our production scheme as a graphic in campaign story and explained it several times before.
4) We are very sorry that the whole production and shipping process takes us so long, but paperwork, logistics and quality control of some elements needs more time than we expected. This week to the increasing number of external factors causing delays we had to add dealing with transport companies who do not treat right your packages. It looks like we are able to assembly 150 cases in one week, but we need almost whole 2nd week to do the paperwork and solve problems with previous transports. Because of all that it is obvious we need almost 2 weeks (instead of previously stated 1 week) to manufacture and send each transport of 150 cases. Once again, we are sorry for this situation.
5) We already sent 1st transport of 150 black Sentry cases and this week we will send 2nd transport with white ones. We will try to send 3rd shippment at the turn of May and June, so we could reach efficiency level of 450 units per month. If it will be possible, then it is also possible we could close the indiegogo shippments at the beginning of July.
6) Most of packages to countries outside EU are being sent with economical shipping, so it may take over a month for them to be delivered. Courier shipping would cost more than $100.
7) If you didn't get your package tracking number, it means we didn't process your order yet. Please be patient.
8) We are very short of time, so if it is possible, ask your questions in the forum in the first place.
Bonus photos of assembled and packed white cases:
Oops. I forgot to make this document public and I received a lot of emails from people requesting access. I have gone ahead and made it public. I will make a backup private version to ensure the information is backed up.
Once again here is the link.
Thanks Rysen, I can not wait to make a couple entries with my current i7 2600 and and future R7 1700 or R5 1600 (time is still on my side which one I'll pull the trigger on). If all goes well, should have my beautiful white Sentry within a month. Exciting times!
Hopefully within the next couple of months, I'll be able to post benchmarks of my R7 1700 with VEGA! Computex can't come soon enough.
Bucwolfser
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
- Messages
- 21
I'm sorry if I missed this but...
After reading through all these cooler posts, I'm really confused about my options. I want to build R7 1700, can I just use stock fan or am I out of luck until a AM4 SFF cooler is released?
Again sorry if I missed this, so many posts now!
I've got case number 53 headed my way so I need to grab some HW!
After reading through all these cooler posts, I'm really confused about my options. I want to build R7 1700, can I just use stock fan or am I out of luck until a AM4 SFF cooler is released?
Again sorry if I missed this, so many posts now!
I've got case number 53 headed my way so I need to grab some HW!
I was in the same bind as you. Noctua is releasing a bracket for the NH-L9 cooler next week. I posted a link to the Reddit post earlier today in the thread.
Bucwolfser
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
- Messages
- 21
I appreciate the response, but will the stock AMD fan for the R7 1700 fit?
No. It's 53mm and max cooler height in the sentry is 48mm
Bucwolfser
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
- Messages
- 21
Thanks for the clarification, Rysen and RosaJ.
Now I'm on that Noctua train.
I'll be watching the forums for the release date of the new cooler.
Now I'm on that Noctua train.
I'll be watching the forums for the release date of the new cooler.
Ryzen 7 1700, two sticks of RipJaws DDR4 3200 8GB (decided I won't need more than 16 gigs for some time and might as well test out dual channel and two sticks for fitting) and 960 EVO are waiting on my desk since Friday.
I'll probably mount the CPU today for measurements and also check if RipJaws fit inside Sentry under the hdd bracket as well.
Stefano1989
n00b
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2016
- Messages
- 39
Hi, i would like to buy the Silverstone sx800 sfx-l, according to you is it problem-free? I do not need the ssd slot
I mean, it doesn't have issues by itself, but using a SFX-L power supply makes building and cable routing way more difficult.
Why in the world do you think you need an 800w power supply?
Silverstone PSUs has that plastic logo on the top which is sticking out of the SFX form factor dimensions, sometimes causing a problem with closing Sentry's cover (we have explained it in our online manual on page 11). It means you may need to flip the grill pushing the logo inside the PSU or fully remove the grill like Linus did. What is more, Silverstone has those stiff cables which may be problematic in such cramped space, so better get some custom ones. I do not remember other problems with this power supplies.