Seeking Low/Mid-Range Upgrades for Modest Gaming System

R

Rattlin Bones

n00b
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
41
Hi guys! New around here. Currently looking to make some upgrades to my 3200+ (754), 1GB RAM, 420w PSU system because it just isn't cutting it anymore. Hoping you can help me out, as I've been out of the computers game for several years.


1) What will you be doing with this PC?

Gaming is likely the most hardware intensive thing I'll be doing.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

For the components I'll be upgrading at this time, I'd like to spend under $600 CAD.

3) Where do you live?

Toronto, Canada. NCIX.com and NewEgg.ca are the big online guys. Local stores I've used are Infornec.ca, PCVillageCanada.com, and CanadaComputers.com.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?

CPU, Mobo, RAM, HD, PSU, OS.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? List make and model.

Case (some decent Cooler Master), GPU (8800 GS 384MB), audio card (Audigy 2 ZS--unless onboard sound is as good), display (Viewsonic VX2025wm 20.1"), all other basic stuff.

6) Will you be overclocking?

Don't expect to. Have never tried it, due to fear of screwing something up. If you happen to tell me that it's super easy with the CPU/Mobo I wind up getting, I might give it a shot. But I won't be heartbroken if the components I select aren't OC-friendly. I do not want to have to mess with aftermarket cooling.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

As mentioned, Viewsonic VX2025wm 20.1" (1680x1050) is my current. But I might want to upgrade to a 24" down the road. I don't intend to upgrade GPU until DX11 though, so this will probably be a consideration for that time. Might influence my current PSU decision, though? That's one area where I need your help.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

I'd say within the next month.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

I don't think SLI/Crossfire will ever be viable for me, due to cost. Never messed with RAID. Only thing I'd like are at least two standard PCI slots for older devices and enough IDE whatsits so that I can use an old 80GB IDE drive for back-ups, if possible.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

Yes, XP Premium. But I want to make the jump to Vista + 7 upgrade or just 7, should I not upgrade until after its release.
Click to expand...

CPU: People keep recommending the Phenom II X2 550 BE to me, so I presume that's the sweet spot for value right now. Do you agree?

Motherboard: My potential needs are mentioned in my questionnaire response. Gigabyte 770 is what's been recommended to me for non-CF. Anything better out there?

RAM: Here I'm clueless. Last time I bought RAM, there were no numbers appended to DDR. I imagine I want 2x2GB, but what generation, speed, and manufacturer? And is DDR3 backwards compatible with DDR2 boards? If it isn't, and the GB770 only supports DDR2, do I want to shell out for a DDR3-compatible board so that I'll have upgrade options in the future? Or should DDR2 hold me over until it will make sense to do a total-system upgrade?

HD: Don't need anything above 500GB unless the price is right. This will be the system's primary (and likely only) drive.

PSU: Totally clueless. Would love a specific brand and model recommendation. I presume 500-550w is enough for my current upgrade, but should I have more for when I eventually upgrade to DX11, and perhaps a 24" monitor?

Your recommendations and advice are very much appreciated. Thanks!
 
For gaming and your budget, yes, the 550 is a good choice. Heck, even the 245 would be a good choice, considering you're coming from a s754 system. :p

There's always something better out there, but again, for your low budget, the 770 is good.

No, DDR3 is not backwards compatible with DDR2. Since your budget is low, you'll want DDR2-800 CL5. Go for G.Skills or Corsair XMS... whichever is cheaper.

Go for a drive that uses 333GB-platters for higher performance, like the WD3200AAKS or WD6400AAKS.

550W-650W would be recommended for when you upgrade your GPU. Check out the Antec TP New 550W and the Corsair VX 550W. Their higher wattage brothers are also good. ;)

Even with a 24" monitor, you won't really need Crossfire/SLI -- just a beefier GPU. :p

EDIT:
$140 - MS Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Free Win7 upgrade
$150 - COMBO: AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz Socket AM3 + GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AMD 785G mATX
$88 - WD Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA300
$88 - Antec earthwatts EA500 500W 80 PLUS Certified
$55 - OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2-800 OCZ2N800SR4GK
============
$521 + tax and shipping

Jeez... windows is overpriced over there. Are you by any chance a student? :p
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much for your informative reply, enginurd! It's a lot more in depth than I usually receive. I realize there's plenty of information out there for me to research on my own, but I often need someone to put two and two together and explain what's best for me and why.

For gaming and your budget, yes, the 550 is a good choice. Heck, even the 245 would be a good choice, considering you're coming from a s754 system. :p
Click to expand...
Wow, the 245 wasn't on my radar, but it's cheap as beans. While I'll spend more money if I have to, that's pretty tempting if it won't severely hamper my performance.

There's always something better out there, but again, for your low budget, the 770 is good.
Click to expand...
Is the 770 a good full ATX replacement for the 785 micro ATX you found me in that combo? Or is there a non-Crossfire full ATX 785 that you'd recommend? I tend to prefer the increased flexibility and room the additional PCI slots give me. But I guess the micro board really has everything I need at the moment. Is 785 better for potential future upgrades?

No, DDR3 is not backwards compatible with DDR2.
Click to expand...
What's confusing me is whether DDR3 uses actual different RAM slots, i.e. DDR3 requires different motherboards. Some guy on another forum was telling me that all the DDR3 marketed for use with Intel CPUs will work fine for AMD systems No idea what the story is here.

I'm fine with the slower DDR2, but is there an estimated percentage performance difference? Just wondering if it would be better to pay extra for DDR3. But it seems to be as much as double the price. (And if it would require going Intel, there'd be no point value-wise.)

Jeez... windows is overpriced over there. Are you by any chance a student? :p
Click to expand...
Haha, no--but I'm considering going back to school just to get the discount. ;)

Thank you so much, once again!
 
Yes, DDR3 uses a different DIMM slot than DDR2. While both are 240-pin, they have different pin-outs and are alsy keyed differently, to prevent sticking a DDR2 stick into a DDR3 slot and vice versa.

No, no real performance difference with the current AMD platform between DDR2 and 3. AM3 chips have both a DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller integrated into them. If you want, you can get the Gigabyte board that has both DDR2 and DDR3 (GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P). Basically, you'll want something with the SB710 or SB750, to help you unlock some cores if and when its needed. ;)

The X2 245 will be fine once you OC it to around 3.2Ghz, but you'll need an aftermarket cooler for that, like the AC Freezer 64 pro.
 
Last edited:
How hard is it to OC the 245? I haven't overclocked anything in my life. I'm not comfortable navigating the BIOS unless I know what everything does. As well, I'd rather not bother with aftermarket coolers if I could just put the money into a better CPU that would run as well or better at stock.

That's not to say that I'm not willing to learn. It definitely appeals to me, you know? But I don't want it to delay my purchase. I want something I can run right out of the box, and if I'm able to OC easily later if I feel up to it, that's a bonus.

I guess my question is, what CPU would you recommend were I to run it only at stock? I take it the 245 would be out unless I were prepared to upgrade again soon? I know the 550BE comes heavily recommended, but it seems to beg to be OCd and unlocked. Would I be better off with a tri or quad core, or is that just as big a waste as the additional cores don't make much difference in gaming?

Is there such a thing as a great stock budget CPU that can potentially be OCd with the stock cooler? :p
 
It used to be the E8400, hehe, but now its probably the X3 720. Mild OC'ing is pretty easy with any of these chips, and for unlocking cores you'll need the SB710 or SB750 southbridge chipsets. Unlocking is hit or miss, but each chip can typically OC nicely.

At 50% price premium, the 550BE is only 200Mhz faster, but it has double the cache and is easier to OC (unlocked multiplier). At 100% price premium, the X3 720 gives you a whole other core but is clocked slightly less. The 550BE is a good median, but if you're wanting to save money, I'd go with the 245 and OC'ing.
 
While I would like to save as much money as possible, the extra $60 isn't going to kill me. And frankly, it seems worth it to eliminate the potential hassle. The cooler you recommended would cost me $25+ anyway, right? I might enjoy learning to overclock, but don't want to have to do it to justify my purchase.

In Canada, the 550 is $116 CAD, the 720 is $139. Presuming I can part with the cash, that's a pretty good upgrade, yeah? Add a core for $23? I'm sold. The value of additional cores obviously doesn't scale linearly, but 3x2.8GHz has to be better than 2x3.1GHz? Maybe I'll take a slight performance hit in games, but overall the third core will be better value for the money, and I'd potentially get better OC mileage on stock cooling?

----

So I really like the PSU you recommended, the Antec EA500. Will 500W be enough, considering the quality of the PSU, when I upgrade my GPU, though? The EA650 is only $2 more, but I've read that it's "not modular", and some people think it's loud. How do I know if this will fit in my case? It's a Cooler Master Cavalier 3.

----

Back to motherboards. So I'm looking for something non-CF, full ATX, with SB710 or SB750. I expected to come up with some other options, but the Gigabyte 770 you mentioned seems to fit the bill perfectly, and for a reasonable $90 CAD. Is there any reason to consider other manufacturers, or is Gigabyte pretty much tops right now?

----

RAM. To get the benefit out of DDR3, it's going to take upgrading to an AMD processor that's not even on the market yet, right? So there's really no point in paying double for DDR3 right now? Mobo will be able to be reused with that in mind when the time comes, though, if I'm understanding correctly.


Together with the DDR2 and hard drive you recommended, I think we're set! Would appreciate your abbreviated thoughts on the PSU, though. Thank you so much! You've been a source of so much information for me.
 
One last question: How does the WD10EADS compare to the drive you recommended? It's less than $10 more, but a full TB. I really don't need the space though, so if the WD6400AAKS performs so much better, I'd be inclined to stick with that. Thanks!
 
Honestly, you really won't notice a difference between the 245 and the 550BE at stock speeds. Its a matter of 200Mhz, and the larger cache doesn't affect performance in games. The only time you'll notice a difference between the 245 and the 720 is when the game takes better advantage of more cpu cores, since again, they're clocked similarly (100Mhz difference). Though, I agree, the 3rd core is definitely a big plus. With stock cooling, unless its the heatpipe version of AMD's cooler, you won't get very far with OC'ing. Therefore, that Freezer 64 Pro is recommended with any of those CPUs. :p

I did a quick newegg search and didn't see any cheaper options aside from ECS, which I tend to avoid unless its free. :p Don't forget to check NCIX and canadacomputers, too... I also heard NCIX pricematches newegg. ;)

The HDD is the slowest component in your computer... make it as fast as your budget allows. ;)
 
Last edited:
The X3 720 is well worth the extra $23CAD IMO.

A quality 500W PSU will be enough for your system. Since the EA500 is a quality PSU, that means that it will be enough for your system. Most PSUs these days are standard ATX size so it should fit inside your ATX case. Don't worry about the lack of modular cables on both the EA500 and EA650. If the EA650 is only $2 more, then it's the better buy.

Motherboard wise, also check out Asus motherboards as their quality is roughly equal to that of Gigabyte.

CPU wise, there hasn't been any info that future AMD CPUs will actually benefit from DDR3 RAM. However DDR3 RAM would provide a slightly higher chance of CPU compatibility should AMD make future AM3 CPUs DDR3 only. If you were here in the U.S, I'd say go for the DDR3 RAM as DDR3 RAM is only $20 to $30 more than DDR2 RAM for slighly better compatibility. At the very least, DDR3 RAM will not lower performance.

But since DDR3 RAM is twice the costs of DDR2 RAM over there, stick with DDR2 RAM.

The WD 640GB outperforms the 1TB Green drive by a wide margin. Only get the 1TB Green as a storage drive or for a HTPC.

EDIT: Man I type slow
 
Thanks so much, guys. You're truly awesome.

I might have spoken too soon on the RAM. Looks like the cheapest 2x2GB DDR3 kits you can get are only about $75CAD, in contrast to as low as $50CAD for DDR2. That's not that bad. What I don't know is what speed I'd want to be shooting for.

What is OCZ like? They have 1066 for $75, or 1600 for $85. $85 would also get me 1333 G.Skill. I checked, and the Gigabyte 770 board I'm probably getting should support up to DDR3 1666?

So the big question is whether I'd notice any improvement over the $55 OCZ DDR2 800. (Your comments suggest no.) If not, it still might make sense as while it's $30-$40 more, it might save me from having to upgrade my RAM one day in the future as a CPU requirement? (Of course, by the time I need/can afford to upgrade, we might very well be on AM5 and DDR7. :rolleyes::p)


Edit: As for Asus motherboards, I was always under the impression they were tops. The ones in my price range I looked at, however, seem to have a few issues.

Also, I'll definitely be comparison shopping with NCIX and some local places. So far, NCIX is way more expensive for the CPU ($175!) but a little better for HD and, IIRC, PSU. Would love to see if they'll PM the CPU, but I hear you have to actually place the order first, which is stupid.

I was totally confused as to what modular meant in regard to PSUs. I thought it meant they weren't ATX, or something. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Thanks again!
 
Last edited:
I personally don't like to use OCZ RAM in my own personal builds but I can recommend them to others. In this case though, don't bother with the OCZ DDRE-1600 RAM as its RAM voltage is way too high IMO. I'd personnally go with this cheaper and lower voltage G.Skill RAM set:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231253

With that said, you would not notice a performance difference between DDR3 1600 RAM and DDR2 800 RAM in most real world apps and games.

Asus and Gigabyte are the top two motherboard manufacturers out there actually. Neither dominates the other
 
Thanks so much, Danny Bui!

I think I'm set! Just down to the nitty-gritty now. I need some case fan recommendations. :p

My Cooler Master Cavalier 3 has an 80mm at the front, a 120mm at the back, and a spot for an 80mm on the side of the case. At this time, should I bother updating the stock fans? The one at the front doesn't work anymore, but it hasn't been much of a problem (that I can tell) as I've been running open-case.

If you think I should upgrade the fans, or at least replace the front one, could you please recommend some good, albeit inexpensive, fans? No LEDs, please. :D

Oh, and, does it make any sense to have a fan on the side of the case, or does that just screw up air flow?
 
The side fan would help, since the two intakes are only 80mm while your exhaust is 120mm. Go for yate loon or scythe slipstream fans (though for 80mm the scythes may be a different name).
 
Hey, neat! NCIX has a Yate Loon 120 on sale right now for $4.99!

I hate to ask one more question, but how does the WD6401AALS stack up to the WD6400AAKS we picked out? The former is on sale right now.
 
Rattlin Bones said:
Hey, neat! NCIX has a Yate Loon 120 on sale right now for $4.99!

I hate to ask one more question, but how does the WD6401AALS stack up to the WD6400AAKS we picked out? The former is on sale right now.
Click to expand...

Roughly the same performance but the AALS has a longer warranty. If the 640GB AALS isn't that much more or about the same price, buy it.
 
Yah, YL fans are typically under $4 here in the states... good, cheap, relatively quiet, and push lots of air.

edit: /me type slow... removed info on hdd, since danny beat me to it. :p
 
It's $10 cheaper. :D

Of course, those jerks at NCIX don't have the RAM you recommended, Danny Bui.

Some of the stuff they do have might meet you guys' approval, though. Which is your pick? (It's a little more expensive, unfortunately, but NCIX has some great deals on right now that will make up for it.)

G.SKILL F3-10666CL9D-4GBNQ PC3-10666 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1333 CL9-9-9-24 $89
Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1333 CL 9-9-9-24 $99
G.SKILL F3-10666CL7D-4GBRH Ripjaws PC3-10666 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1333 CL7-7-7-21 $99
Mushkin HP3 996629 4GB 2X2GB PC3-12800 DDR3-1600 CL8-8-8-24 $99
Patriot Sector 5 PGV34G1333ELK 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1333 CL 9-9-9-24 $99

I swear that's it. :D You guys have been so awesome for sharing your knowledge with me, seriously. No other forum I've visited has been as friendly or helpful. Without you guys I have no doubt I'd be purchasing a sub-system right now. Thank you.
 
I'd go for the Corsair since I like thier company better. I like G.Skill RAM too but I'd go for Corsair if was the same price.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top