Say Goodbye to These Windows 10 Features in the Fall Creators Update

When MS takes it upon themselves to make decisions regarding your PC experience and how you use your PC, in this case removing Windows features that are useful and in many ways necessary, I believe Windows users should be up in arms - As a Windows user myself there's no way I'm going to defend this ridiculous and manipulative decision.

What's with people bending over and offering to MS like they don't have a voice? It's reminiscent of Stockholm Syndrome and is a very slippery slide.
 
What about Linux Mint made you say it's "so bad"?

I myself prefer Ubuntu. I found Mint lacked good polish. But I'd like to know more about what you actually did try.


ymer said:
I have a linux server that I use for my security system, file sharing, plex server etc... It only takes me about 5 hours to google how to do the most basic stuff on linux but once you get it working it's rock solid and works without human intervention forever.

I have also tried their "end user" distributions like Linux Mint and it's so bad compared to Windows that it's laughable.
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triwolf said:
Heard of an example? MLK is an example of many. Read the post. Don't judge me. And don't try to tell me what to do. I couldn't care less about what you say. I will say my piece. Not a problem with me if you don't like it. Why all the anger towards me? Don't like others with an ability to argue their point? Get used to it, it's the real world. So you like MS's actions like everyone else is complaining about on this thread? You attack me, what do you think about what MS is doing lately?
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My thoughts on MS? Eh. Depends on the specific issue. On this one specifically? I'm ambivalent. It does not effect me personally as I don't use any of those features nor have any desire to do so, but I understand why some people are mad about it and have concerns about where it could lead. Having that kind of discussion on forums like this or even ones where people less technically inclined might run across it is good. This is one of the proper ways to get your opinion out and get it noticed. Stuff like this crossing over to general consumers is one of the things that lead to the failures of both Vista and Windows 8.0. Non-techies heard about how "bad" the OSes where and the stuff MS was screwing up on and it lead people to stay away from them costing MS money and making them take notice. Given the incredibly slow growth of Win 10 lately we might be seeing that happening again, at least on some level.
 
Derangel said:
I find it funny how people who scream "I'm allowed to voice my opinion" always want to silence other people from voicing opposing opinions. My opinion is that you are a jerk that is doing nothing but virtue signaling to make yourself feel better. Your actions have accomplished fuck all and will never amount to anything. A CSR is never going to report your inane babble to anyone. No one on the board of MS will ever see a single word you write in a letter to them. Your actions are utterly worthless and only serve to make you feel better about yourself. In other words you actions, make you selfish and will NEVER HELP ANYONE.
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By the way, anytime I get a CSR that doesn't seem to be helping, I hang up and call back. I also get their manager to call me, so I know it's actually a manager. If I have too, I will find out exactly what phone support farm they are at, and also give the date and time I called, because you do know all that is logged. I would imagine there are a few CSRs out of a job because of customers like me that have had it with poor customer service, and I mean businesss, you will listen to me and be respectful or you will have the fire of God poured upon you. I don't accept disrespect and I am respectful to people. If you cross the line watch out. I also have a low propensity for people with attitudes like you. I will do my best to wake people up, and people like you would have us using stone tools and praying to the sun, you need to change your thoughts about what you do is helping or not. Not doing anything won't do anything, so why blast someone for attempting to make things better? My goodness people these days need to go back to school and learn then apply knowledge.
 
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BulletDust said:
Windows is force installed on the machine at purchase and 99% of the population have no idea that it's even possible to wipe and reinstall Windows let alone any other OS. I see no evidence that Windows is specifically what users want, in fact as a tech that deals with a number of machines owned by the masses people complain about Windows and it's numerous issues all the time.

Misinformed Windows users need to stop with the 20 years ago rubbish. It's the past, it's done, it's not coming back and it by no means reflects the present.
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People complain about ALL COMPUTERS. I complain about Windows. I complain about *nix. I complain about OS X (when I happen to use it).
If people WANT Linux, it's available. It's not a secret.

Companies like Dell quit marketing it to most consumers, because they don't want to deal with support issues from people who don't understand it, because it's not Windows. you can sit on [H] and scream but Linux is better, but some day you'll realize that even if that's true, it's irrelevant. At best, you're Betamax to Microsoft's VHS and dude, almost nobody wanted Betamax....but the pros love it. Almost all TV stations used it (for all I know they still do), but Beta never really caught on with the masses. That's Linux is never going to be the OS for the masses.
 
Tiberian said:
I saw this thread when it first appeared, and I just popped in and, well, I'm not surprised really at the state it's in, but the question I have is this:
Given the topic is about Windows and Windows alone how the hell did Linux find itself dragged into this yet once again? :D
<I know the answer, and of course I'm not alone...>
On-topic:
Apparently Microsoft wants to toss Paint, sadly, I mean I don't use it as my defacto default image editing program (no, I didn't call it an "app") but that doesn't mean it's not a staple of the Windows operating system. Fuck, what next, Notepad? Calculator?
Microsoft, what the FUCK are you people doing? :mad:
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Linux comes in, because folks like BulletDust, bring up Linux in virtually every thread about Windows.

As for what's next, I could see Notepad being replaced with a newer editor (possibly still called Notepad). Calculator has already been replaced with one that can be resized. I havne't done much with Paint 3D, but it looks like it'll resize an image, so we're not losing that functionality if paint goes away (and note it's only being deprecated, so I suspect htere's a way to run it on the next version...but I could be wrong.
 
nilepez said:
At best, you're Betamax to Microsoft's VHS and dude, almost nobody wanted Betamax....but the pros love it. Almost all TV stations used it (for all I know they still do), but Beta never really caught on with the masses.
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While I understand the gist of what you're saying (and someone just made a post as I'm typing this sentence, I wonder who...) you're just providing ammo, really - Betamax was actually the better format for many reasons but the reason it actually lost is the length of recording time because of the smaller cassette cartridges. People could record up to roughly 8 hours (most actual 8 hours tapes were like 7 hours and 45 minutes in the cassette itself which didn't really have space for 8 full hours of tape) so that meant they could go to Blockbuster or whatever video store and copy ~4 of the movies they'd rent on just the one tape. At best Betamax offered what, 4 hours tops?

Simple math won out in the long run: VHS = longer recording time even if it's inferior quality.

But that analogy you made, while I appreciate it myself, is not going to have any effect at all on the current points being offer in this thread and especially not with whom they're aiming at. :D

And as for replacements, that's different from removing said program from the Windows distribution itself which appears to be the case with this Paint situation.
 
nilepez said:
People complain about ALL COMPUTERS. I complain about Windows. I complain about *nix. I complain about OS X (when I happen to use it).
If people WANT Linux, it's available. It's not a secret.

Companies like Dell quit marketing it to most consumers, because they don't want to deal with support issues from people who don't understand it, because it's not Windows. you can sit on [H] and scream but Linux is better, but some day you'll realize that even if that's true, it's irrelevant. At best, you're Betamax to Microsoft's VHS and dude, almost nobody wanted Betamax....but the pros love it. Almost all TV stations used it (for all I know they still do), but Beta never really caught on with the masses. That's Linux is never going to be the OS for the masses.
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Dell never quit selling Linux machines, they actually make good money out of them.

Betamax was the better format. I'm not yelling anything, judging by your use of capitals you are though. If you don't want to discuss Linux why are you talking about it?
 
Tiberian said:
While I understand the gist of what you're saying (and someone just made a post as I'm typing this sentence, I wonder who...) you're just providing ammo, really - Betamax was actually the better format for many reasons but the reason it actually lost is the length of recording time because of the smaller cassette cartridges. People could record up to roughly 8 hours (most actual 8 hours tapes were like 7 hours and 45 minutes in the cassette itself which didn't really have space for 8 full hours of tape) so that meant they could go to Blockbuster or whatever video store and copy ~4 of the movies they'd rent on just the one tape. At best Betamax offered what, 4 hours tops?

Simple math won out in the long run: VHS = longer recording time even if it's inferior quality.

But that analogy you made, while I appreciate it myself, is not going to have any effect at all on the current points being offer in this thread and especially not with whom they're aiming at. :D

And as for replacements, that's different from removing said program from the Windows distribution itself which appears to be the case with this Paint situation.
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You ignored what I said in the sentence before that, "but some day you'll realize that even if that's true, it's irrelevant." Thus, if we assume Linux is better it's still just Betamax and the end user doesn't want it.

And for the record, since I did work in a stereo shop and had access to tons of VCRs, I did record some movies I rented (and later discovered some had horrible copy protection that rendered them unwatchable), but my main use for tapes was time shifting or saving shows that I liked to watch again and IME, that's what most people I knew recorded with their VCRs....though mostly they were playback for rented movies.
 
BulletDust said:
Dell never quit selling Linux machines, they actually make good money out of them.

Betamax was the better format. I'm not yelling anything, judging by your use of capitals you are though. If you don't want to discuss Linux why are you talking about it?
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Not yelling emphasizing....sometimes I forget about bold. I didn't say they quit selling them. They quit marketing them to consumers. That's why you don't see Linux offered on the main site. The change started in 2010.
And as I said above (and in the original message), the point of Beta was that even if Linux is better, it's irrelevant, because consumers don't want it, just like they didn't want betamax.
 
nilepez said:
You ignored what I said in the sentence before that, "but some day you'll realize that even if that's true, it's irrelevant." Thus, if we assume Linux is better it's still just Betamax and the end user doesn't want it.

And for the record, since I did work in a stereo shop and had access to tons of VCRs, I did record some movies I rented (and later discovered some had horrible copy protection that rendered them unwatchable), but my main use for tapes was time shifting or saving shows that I liked to watch again and IME, that's what most people I knew recorded with their VCRs....though mostly they were playback for rented movies.
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Whatever.

Bear in mind that I wasn't the first one to mention Linux in this thread and I'm just replying to factually incorrect statements, you're the one pushing your point of view. I did state that such discussion has no place in this thread so I'm signing out.
 
nilepez said:
People complain about ALL COMPUTERS. I complain about Windows. I complain about *nix. I complain about OS X (when I happen to use it).
If people WANT Linux, it's available. It's not a secret.

Companies like Dell quit marketing it to most consumers, because they don't want to deal with support issues from people who don't understand it, because it's not Windows. you can sit on [H] and scream but Linux is better, but some day you'll realize that even if that's true, it's irrelevant. At best, you're Betamax to Microsoft's VHS and dude, almost nobody wanted Betamax....but the pros love it. Almost all TV stations used it (for all I know they still do), but Beta never really caught on with the masses. That's Linux is never going to be the OS for the masses.
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Sorry bud but you're wrong. Most regular users do not know about linux so they can't by definition want it either. The market is so saturated with windows that consumers are walking blind. It's a really fucked up situation.
 
nilepez said:
Not yelling emphasizing....sometimes I forget about bold. I didn't say they quit selling them. They quit marketing them to consumers. That's why you don't see Linux offered on the main site. The change started in 2010.
And as I said above (and in the original message), the point of Beta was that even if Linux is better, it's irrelevant, because consumers don't want it, just like they didn't want betamax.
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Consumers didn't want betamax because all the content (porn) providers started putting out VHS. It was never about what consumers wanted, it was what they were forced to use.
 
We can all find some positivity in corporate decision making by the fact that they will more than likely call their decision an omission as to what they were really planning.

MS paint is back https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/07/24/ms-paint-stay/#VZ2pVvXmoTLRLfGJ.97

<hopefullly> it was just a test to see how many folks wanted paint, an small unobtrusive well known program, included as a part of the windows Os.

I still want to believe that a company started by a programmer, becoming the richest person in the world is incapable of "even thinking" of removing that which made folks comfortable with their latest version of the os that runs the majority of computers. How possibly can a program included in every microsoft gui based program when computers got by on 40 megs....MEGS...... and less, be excluded when a machine commonly has easilly 1000 times more hd space........ WTF.

Even though I will be annoyed, I hope it comes out that paint was to be included in office, a paied for use program so it can make sense. I rather feel that the corporate profit mentality made the decision rather than a decision made without any other reasons.

Windows "1995" - The easiest most user friendly operating system you will ever need.
Windows "2017" - lets take away features that friendly likes.

Me tinks that the path is losing its direction..........
 
Khahhblaab said:
We can all find some positivity in corporate decision making by the fact that they will more than likely call their decision an omission as to what they were really planning.

MS paint is back https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/07/24/ms-paint-stay/#VZ2pVvXmoTLRLfGJ.97

<hopefullly> it was just a test to see how many folks wanted paint, an small unobtrusive well known program, included as a part of the windows Os.

I still want to believe that a company started by a programmer, becoming the richest person in the world is incapable of "even thinking" of removing that which made folks comfortable with their latest version of the os that runs the majority of computers. How possibly can a program included in every microsoft gui based program when computers got by on 40 megs....MEGS...... and less, be excluded when a machine commonly has easilly 1000 times more hd space........ WTF.

Even though I will be annoyed, I hope it comes out that paint was to be included in office, a paied for use program so it can make sense. I rather feel that the corporate profit mentality made the decision rather than a decision made without any other reasons.

Windows "1995" - The easiest most user friendly operating system you will ever need.
Windows "2017" - lets take away features that friendly likes.

Me tinks that the path is losing its direction..........
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It was never going away, but reading a webpage before raging on the internet was a too complicated task for many. Paint however is no longer actively being developed on.
 
Delicieuxz said:
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Microsoft have adjusted their position on MS Paint, and will now move it to the Windows Store, where it can be downloaded for free.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/07/24/ms-paint-stay/
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So it is being removed after all. Imagine needing a quick picture tool without internet access on a newly installed system, well fucked you are young padawan.
Anything on the store is not included in windows. Esp. if you disable and eradicate all remnants of that like me.
 
Shintai said:
It was never going away, but reading a webpage before raging on the internet was a too complicated task for many. Paint however is no longer actively being developed on.
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You say that like you know, but you don't know jack. And just maybe some of our "raging" forced Microsoft's hand.
Because this was Microsoft's plan, Paint was classified as deprecated meaning that the app was no longer in development and it might be removed in future releases.
But now Microsoft has changed their plan and the "ragers" will be able to download it from the store.
 
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B00nie said:
Consumers didn't want betamax because all the content (porn) providers started putting out VHS. It was never about what consumers wanted, it was what they were forced to use.
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Betamax failed due to a number of reasons, first and foremost being price and the fact that the cheaper VHS was good enough hammered the last nail in the coffin.
 
Just search for "Classic paint for Windows 10". Its literally the older paint.exe repackaged and is installed parallel to the 3D version they are now pushing after you get creators installed.
 
Jim Kim said:
Betamax failed due to a number of reasons, first and foremost being price and the fact that the cheaper VHS was good enough hammered the last nail in the coffin.
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From what I remember, as someone that lived through the whole era of VHS vs Betamax, B00nie's right. While I'm sure price definately contributed to the demise of the more superior Betamax format, the adoption of VHS by the porn industry was the nail in the coffin.

Remember, before consumer video cassette formats, porn playback in the home didn't really exist. Hence it was far more influential than it is today with porn popping up all over the internet. Back in the day porn at home was simply amazing!
 
triwolf said:
I also get their manager to call me, so I know it's actually a manager.
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So by manager you mean the person sitting next to the guy who was laughing so hard at your raging and called you back as "The Manager".
Your understanding of what really happens inside a call center is tenuous at best.
 
Shintai said:
It was never going away, but reading a webpage before raging on the internet was a too complicated task for many. Paint however is no longer actively being developed on.
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You know what else "isn't going away" and "isn't actively being developed on"? Win7. And what does MS do? They put out patches to purposely break it. With Paint going to the store, it'll likely be ripped out of your hands then you'll be forced to redownload it on the store. Then people just won't, and they'll say in a year "our metrics show paint wasn't as popular people claimed", then kill it all together.
 
BulletDust said:
From what I remember, as someone that lived through the whole era of VHS vs Betamax, B00nie's right. While I'm sure price definately contributed to the demise of the more superior Betamax format, the adoption of VHS by the porn industry was the nail in the coffin.

Remember, before consumer video cassette formats, porn playback in the home didn't really exist. Hence it was far more influential than it is today with porn popping up all over the internet. Back in the day porn at home was simply amazing!
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The porn industry choose VHS because of the price along with the previous mentioned length limitations and the fact that the quality was "good enough".
No one want's to see their favorite pornstars blackheads, blisters and zits in HQ Blu-Ray.
 
lilbabycat said:
You know what else "isn't going away" and "isn't actively being developed on"? Win7. And what does MS do? They put out patches to purposely break it. With Paint going to the store, it'll likely be ripped out of your hands then you'll be forced to redownload it on the store. Then people just won't, and they'll say in a year "our metrics show paint wasn't as popular people claimed", then kill it all together.
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Microsoft has also released patches that broke Windows 10, that is nothing new. My Windows 7 systems and all of my customers are running just fine.
As for Paint, you're probably right.
 
Jim Kim said:
The porn industry choose VHS because of the price along with the previous mentioned length limitations and the fact that the quality was "good enough".
No one want's to see their favorite pornstars blackheads, blisters and zits in HQ Blu-Ray.
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What about the same blisters and sits in VR [gag]?!
 
BloodyIron said:
What about Linux Mint made you say it's "so bad"?

I myself prefer Ubuntu. I found Mint lacked good polish. But I'd like to know more about what you actually did try.
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Not Mint's fault. Compared to Windows, any end-user linux distribution is a joke.

Just one example is on the "updates" it asks you if you want to update the kernel, but they should make a BIG effort to educate what that means and why you should do it and explain how that is not going to break your installed software. Normal people don't know and don't care what a Kernel is, if they want to be a competitor to windows, they have to make it very much alike windows, people has been using it for 30+ years..
 
Jim Kim said:
The porn industry choose VHS because of the price along with the previous mentioned length limitations and the fact that the quality was "good enough".
No one want's to see their favorite pornstars blackheads, blisters and zits in HQ Blu-Ray.
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Weird, because I consider those to be a part of the human body. I like 4k porn.
 
Uhhhhh, upgrading your kernel doesn't break your applications. I've been doing it for years, so has my entire family (which runs on Ubuntu), and my GF too, plus all the countless servers that I run to have applications as services. So... I don't know where you're getting your information, but distro kernel upgrades are extremely reliable.

I think you really need to flesh out what exactly your problem is with Linux before you spout small things like "is a joke". What you're stating thus far is not only inaccurate, it's insubstantial.

I can very easily say Windows itself is "a joke", based upon the provable fact that major updates to Windows 10 have literally bricked entire computers to the point where you can't even reinstall the OS ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/08/25/windows-10-anniversary-update-keeps-breaking-pcs/ ), or that Microsoft is removing features in a way you have no choice ( https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/24/...s-10-fall-creators-update-deprecated-software ), or that it can't even run old applications written for it ( http://www.pcworld.com/article/2972...un-some-older-cd-rom-games-thanks-to-drm.html ).

Honestly, Windows 10 has a lot of problems, and it keeps getting worse. The significant majority that aren't actually a problem in Linux. So if you're going to criticise an OS in the way you do, you better damn well be able to back up your claims, otherwise you're just flat out lying or blowing FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).



ymer said:
Not Mint's fault. Compared to Windows, any end-user linux distribution is a joke.

Just one example is on the "updates" it asks you if you want to update the kernel, but they should make a BIG effort to educate what that means and why you should do it and explain how that is not going to break your installed software. Normal people don't know and don't care what a Kernel is, if they want to be a competitor to windows, they have to make it very much alike windows, people has been using it for 30+ years..
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BulletDust said:
From what I remember, as someone that lived through the whole era of VHS vs Betamax, B00nie's right. While I'm sure price definately contributed to the demise of the more superior Betamax format, the adoption of VHS by the porn industry was the nail in the coffin.

Remember, before consumer video cassette formats, porn playback in the home didn't really exist. Hence it was far more influential than it is today with porn popping up all over the internet. Back in the day porn at home was simply amazing!
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It was also tape length. Beta's largest was 6 hours and VHS' was 9 and sold for less. Most people didn't notice the difference in durability or image quality.
 
B00nie said:
Sorry bud but you're wrong. Most regular users do not know about linux so they can't by definition want it either. The market is so saturated with windows that consumers are walking blind. It's a really fucked up situation.
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So it's your position that the vast majority of people on [H] have never heard of Linux?
 
B00nie said:
Consumers didn't want betamax because all the content (porn) providers started putting out VHS. It was never about what consumers wanted, it was what they were forced to use.
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This is not true and a quick google search shows as much.
 
Todd Walter said:
It was also tape length. Beta's largest was 6 hours and VHS' was 9 and sold for less. Most people didn't notice the difference in durability or image quality.
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Gawd damn, I was only young and I can assure you that I could quite easily notice the difference between SP and LP. SP was crap, LP was utter garbage!
 
EricVB said:
I guess that is the benefit of telemetry. Microsoft knows who uses what features now and can remove useful ones as not to keep the OS bloated. Only downside I ever see to this is I always turn off all the reporting on apps and os that I use so they would never really know if I use something or not.
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Fixed
 
ymer said:
Not Mint's fault. Compared to Windows, any end-user linux distribution is a joke.

Just one example is on the "updates"...
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Updates that actually work, take only moments, and don't break your shit? With detailed descriptions of what each update is? Sounds like Microsoft could learn a lot from Linux.

These kind of anti-Linux arguments may have made some sense 5+ years ago but now they just sound ignorant. Desktop Linux is a solid option for home users and actually superior in a lot of use cases. I moved all my home machines from Windows 7 to Linux Mint back in October and I've been very happy with the results. All my hardware 'just works,' all the programs I use run on Linux or have equivalents, and 1/3 of my Steam library runs with no extra effort needed. Meanwhile Microsoft keeps stripping out more and more features with each 'update' hoping to save money and drive people to their crappy app store.

The only Windows program I used regularly and can't on Linux is MPC-HC, and apparently it's a dead project now anyway.
 
ymer said:
Not Mint's fault. Compared to Windows, any end-user linux distribution is a joke.

Just one example is on the "updates" it asks you if you want to update the kernel, but they should make a BIG effort to educate what that means and why you should do it and explain how that is not going to break your installed software. Normal people don't know and don't care what a Kernel is, if they want to be a competitor to windows, they have to make it very much alike windows, people has been using it for 30+ years..
Click to expand...

Well this comment's just full of fail.
 
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