SATA III SSD on SATA II Motherboard

M

memnoch_thedevil

Gawd
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
943
How much of a performance hit would I take if I got a SATA III SSD, and my motherboard only has SATA II connections?

Also, has anyone had any experience with a card like these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158207&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Add-On+Cards-_-STARTECH-_-15158207

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124048

Would that at least improve the performance over SATA II? Or can someone link me with a better one? I don't necessarily want it for RAID, but just to get the performance closer to SATA III...


Thanks for any and all info - Rig is in sig - won't be upgrading for a while, so also if there's a really good SATA II drive that is an amazing buy, you can point that out too :p
 
Don't bother with these types of controller cards, unless you get one that is PCIe x4.

Most of them (like the Startech) are PCIe x1. That connection has a bandwidth of 500 MB/s.
SATA III spec is 750 MB/s.

You also have to be careful about what components are used to make the card.
Just because a controller is physically made for a PCIe x4 slot doesn't mean the associated chips take advantage of the bandwidth.

A good portion of the PCIe x4 controllers are RAID controllers, but that doesn't mean you can't use them for non-RAID configurations.
The RAID controller BIOS, however, might add a bit of delay to your startup process.
Highpoint, Adaptec and LSI make cards like this, but they are generally a bit more focused on the enterprise market with a higher price.
Expect to pay around $80-$150 for a lower tier card like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115077

Startech also makes the PEXSAT34, which is PCIe x4.
Newegg doesn't carry it, but you can get it from Provantage or directly from Startech:
http://www.provantage.com/startech-pexsat34~7STR92FW.htm
http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapt...ntroller-Card-with-eSATA-PCIe-4-Line~PEXSAT34


Your sig doesn't identify your MB, but your CPU indicates an X58 board. If you don't have an open x4, x8 or x16 PCIe slot, the point is moot.
In that case, you're better off just connecting the drive to a SATA II port.
 
gathagan said:
Don't bother with these types of controller cards, unless you get one that is PCIe x4.

Most of them (like the Startech) are PCIe x1. That connection has a bandwidth of 500 MB/s.
SATA III spec is 750 MB/s.

You also have to be careful about what components are used to make the card.
Just because a controller is physically made for a PCIe x4 slot doesn't mean the associated chips take advantage of the bandwidth.

A good portion of the PCIe x4 controllers are RAID controllers, but that doesn't mean you can't use them for non-RAID configurations.
The RAID controller BIOS, however, might add a bit of delay to your startup process.
Highpoint, Adaptec and LSI make cards like this, but they are generally a bit more focused on the enterprise market with a higher price.
Expect to pay around $80-$150 for a lower tier card like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115077

Startech also makes the PEXSAT34, which is PCIe x4.
Newegg doesn't carry it, but you can get it from Provantage or directly from Startech:
http://www.provantage.com/startech-pexsat34~7STR92FW.htm
http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapt...ntroller-Card-with-eSATA-PCIe-4-Line~PEXSAT34


Your sig doesn't identify your MB, but your CPU indicates an X58 board. If you don't have an open x4, x8 or x16 PCIe slot, the point is moot.
In that case, you're better off just connecting the drive to a SATA II port.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info...the board is the EVGA 121-BL-E756-TR X58 Micro - I think it only has 1x PCI-E x1 slot and 2x PCI-E x16 slots, one of which is open right now...I thought about Crossfire, but don't really see the need for it, so I have the open slot.

That's quite a bit more expensive, would it really be worth it - $130 for an SSD + $100 or so for the card, for the bump in performance?

I just had the board RMA'd and they sent me a brand new one, and same with the CPU, it was also RMA'd and they sent a new chip as well, it's a new video card, and new Ram, so essentially all of the main components are new again, and it's lasted me almost 3 years as is, so I don't see a real reason to upgrade anytime soon. It still handles everything I do with ease...

I thought an SSD would be a nice addition, but I am starting to think that maybe it's really just not worth it at this point...what do you think?
 
memnoch_thedevil said:
How much of a performance hit would I take if I got a SATA III SSD, and my motherboard only has SATA II connections?
...
Click to expand...

In many scenarios, none, in most scenarios, hardly any, and most others, slight.

If you have two Sata III SSDs and you regularly move large (many GB) files between them, you'd see a difference depending on the ports they are connected on.

The Sata interface, I, II or III has no impact whatsoever on responsiveness and access times, which means for most general computing tasks the interface will not matter much.

A Sata III SSD will probably boot into Windows a second or two faster if on a Sata III port vs Sata II. Only loading the heaviest of programs, game level loads and such will probably be on the order of one or two seconds faster on a Sata III port vs a Sata II port.

I'm using an Intel 320 120GB SSD on a client's desktop for work that appears to throttle the SSD to Sata I (HD Tune read tops out at ~150 MB/s with it), yet running a virtual machine on it is still much better than running one off my two stripped velociraptors on ICH10R ports that top out over 225MB/s in HDTune.

At home, I recently put in a Samsung 830 onto my P5Q Deluxe and am "suffering" along with its Sata II performance, and I'll continue to do so until I upgrade, whether it be with an Ivy Bridge or whatever is next (Haswell?).

With more typical use, I think you'd regret spending >$100 US on a card just to get a good Sata III port to use until your next upgrade.
 
JRS said:
In many scenarios, none, in most scenarios, hardly any, and most others, slight.

If you have two Sata III SSDs and you regularly move large (many GB) files between them, you'd see a difference depending on the ports they are connected on.

The Sata interface, I, II or III has no impact whatsoever on responsiveness and access times, which means for most general computing tasks the interface will not matter much.

A Sata III SSD will probably boot into Windows a second or two faster if on a Sata III port vs Sata II. Only loading the heaviest of programs, game level loads and such will probably be on the order of one or two seconds faster on a Sata III port vs a Sata II port.

I'm using an Intel 320 120GB SSD on a client's desktop for work that appears to throttle the SSD to Sata I (HD Tune read tops out at ~150 MB/s with it), yet running a virtual machine on it is still much better than running one off my two stripped velociraptors on ICH10R ports that top out over 225MB/s in HDTune.

At home, I recently put in a Samsung 830 onto my P5Q Deluxe and am "suffering" along with its Sata II performance, and I'll continue to do so until I upgrade, whether it be with an Ivy Bridge or whatever is next (Haswell?).

With more typical use, I think you'd regret spending >$100 US on a card just to get a good Sata III port to use until your next upgrade.
Click to expand...


Thanks...that makes a lot more sense to me...Now I just need to convince my self I need a $130 128GB Crucial M4 lol...
 
It really depends on your usage. Try to critically examine how you use your PC and when you are waiting on it, what are you waiting on? If it is typically drive access, than you'll like an SSD. If you are impatient when booting your computer and waiting for it to respond when it appears to have finished booting, but really hasn't, then you'll like an SSD. But if the things you do, games, apps etc tend to load fast enough and respond fast enough for you now, then you may be disappointed on how much bang for your buck you get with an SSD.

What sold me on them was when I stuck a 2nd gen Intel x25m into my work 3 yr old 2.0 dual core laptop last spring and all of sudden all my development programs were running better for me than most of my co-workers who were running quad core laptops with 7200rpm laptop drives.

I multi-task a bunch, even when I game, I work a lot in virtual machines, and those alway have a lag, or hiccup when it comes to being responsive while running of mechanical hard drives, even on a pair of stripped velociraptors.

If money is tight, definitely do not rush into splurging on an SSD.
 
If you get a Crucial m4, be sure to flash its firmware to 0309. I got bit by having 0002 on there just yesterday. Any Crucial m4 with firmware older than 0309 will, after ~5000 hours online, likely end up failing and then failing within 1 hour of power cycle, forever, until you flash it (but I'm happy to say the flash does fix the issue).

As for the PCI-e talk; be careful. PCI-e x1 is 500 MB/s on PCI-e 2.0 ONLY. PCI-e 1.0 is only 250 MB/s, and PCI-e 3.0 is 1 GB/s (PCI-e 4.0 is 2 GB/s, not that you're likely to find that right now): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express . That StarTech you linked seems to be x1 1.0, so it's 250 MB/s -- that SYBA seems to be PCI-e 2.0 x1, so 500 MB/s.
 
JRS said:
It really depends on your usage. Try to critically examine how you use your PC and when you are waiting on it, what are you waiting on? If it is typically drive access, than you'll like an SSD. If you are impatient when booting your computer and waiting for it to respond when it appears to have finished booting, but really hasn't, then you'll like an SSD. But if the things you do, games, apps etc tend to load fast enough and respond fast enough for you now, then you may be disappointed on how much bang for your buck you get with an SSD.

What sold me on them was when I stuck a 2nd gen Intel x25m into my work 3 yr old 2.0 dual core laptop last spring and all of sudden all my development programs were running better for me than most of my co-workers who were running quad core laptops with 7200rpm laptop drives.

I multi-task a bunch, even when I game, I work a lot in virtual machines, and those alway have a lag, or hiccup when it comes to being responsive while running of mechanical hard drives, even on a pair of stripped velociraptors.

If money is tight, definitely do not rush into splurging on an SSD.
Click to expand...




Nex7 said:
If you get a Crucial m4, be sure to flash its firmware to 0309. I got bit by having 0002 on there just yesterday. Any Crucial m4 with firmware older than 0309 will, after ~5000 hours online, likely end up failing and then failing within 1 hour of power cycle, forever, until you flash it (but I'm happy to say the flash does fix the issue).

As for the PCI-e talk; be careful. PCI-e x1 is 500 MB/s on PCI-e 2.0 ONLY. PCI-e 1.0 is only 250 MB/s, and PCI-e 3.0 is 1 GB/s (PCI-e 4.0 is 2 GB/s, not that you're likely to find that right now): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express . That StarTech you linked seems to be x1 1.0, so it's 250 MB/s -- that SYBA seems to be PCI-e 2.0 x1, so 500 MB/s.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the feedback guys, appreciate it. I think I am going to hold off on the SSD for now...I am really just not on my PC as much as I used to be, and any gaming I do is mostly online, so it won't really effect that at all...

Great knowledge base here though, and I got the answers I was looking for...I think I'll try and resist the urge a little longer!
 
Your Intel SATA II ports are better than any SATA III ports you can buy short of $400+ SAS raid cards. Remember latency and small reads and writes are what you buy SSDs for.
 
dsumike said:
What about something like this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115114

For $25 more than the OP's mentioned cards, it gets you a PCIe 2.0 x4 slot, which should give you all the bandwidth you need for your SATA III SSD.
Click to expand...

That's a chunk of change that can go toward a bigger SSD. I'd rather go a size up and stay on an Intel Sata II port that mess with a third party card just so I can have great large data transfers.

drescherjm said:
Your Intel SATA II ports are better than any SATA III ports you can buy short of $400+ SAS raid cards. Remember latency and small reads and writes are what you buy SSDs for.
Click to expand...

This!
 
Im no expert but I thought Id chime in here with my epic fail.

I recently spent big $$$ on a MegaRaid SAS 9265-8i (8 ports!) and a pair of crucial 512MB M4s to run in Raid0 in the quest for a blazing fast Windows/gaming drive setup. A secondary purpose was to free up my mobos SATA ports as I currently have 7 sata devices and only 6 ports! (6 drives and 1 DVD burner)

The whole thing is kaput. My mobo is an enthusiast (high end at its time of purchase) board and the PCIe x16 slots will only talk to graphics cards. It has 3 of them, and all 3 will not talk to the MegaRaid card. I confirmed this (sadly, after purchase of the card) in both the Asus manual as well as the MegaRaid manual which makes the comment: "The controller is a PCI Express x8 card and it can operate in x8 or x16 slots. However, some PCIe slots support only PCIe graphics cards; if a raid controller is installed, the card will not function."

It seems high end mobos are covered with slots that only talk to graphics cards (do you really need THREE GTX 580's??!?). In all fairness, I guess a true gamer-only could make a similar jab at me: "Do you really need 6 hard drives!?" (and to think, I was planning on having 8 of them after adding the 2 new M4s!! An 2x M4 raid 0 for windows boot and a few select games. A 2x P128 raid 0 for other games. And my trusty 3 x WD Green Raid 0 for 6 TB of storage!)

Anyone know of a good socket 1366 (I don't want to ditch my 980x yet) mobo that actually has a "REAL" PCIe x8 or x16 slot?

Thx
 
Last edited:
skypine27 said:
Im no expert but I thought Id chime in here with my epic fail.

I recently spent big $$$ on a MegaRaid SAS 9265-8i (8 ports!) and a pair of crucial 512MB M4s to run in Raid0 in the quest for a blazing fast Windows/gaming drive setup. A secondary purpose was to free up my mobos SATA ports as I currently have 7 sata devices and only 6 ports! (6 drives and 1 DVD burner)

The whole thing is kaput. My mobo is an enthusiast (high end at its time of purchase) board and the PCIe x16 slots will only talk to graphics cards. It has 3 of them, and all 3 will not talk to the MegaRaid card. I confirmed this (sadly, after purchase of the card) in both the Asus manual as well as the MegaRaid manual which makes the comment: "The controller is a PCI Express x8 card and it can operate in x8 or x16 slots. However, some PCIe slots support only PCIe graphics cards; if a raid controller is installed, the card will not function."

It seems high end mobos are covered with slots that only talk to graphics cards (do you really need THREE GTX 580's??!?). In all fairness, I guess a true gamer-only could make a similar jab at me: "Do you really need 6 hard drives!?" (and to think, I was planning on having 8 of them after adding the 2 new M4s!! An 2x M4 raid 0 for windows boot and a few select games. A 2x P128 raid 0 for other games. And my trusty 3 x WD Green Raid 0 for 6 TB of storage!)

Anyone know of a good socket 1366 (I don't want to ditch my 980x yet) mobo that actually has a "REAL" PCIe x8 or x16 slot?

Thx
Click to expand...

After 3 years, my Core i7 920-D0 with Asus P6T Deluxe V2 still kicks ass, the first 16x PCI-e slot is used by the GTX 285, while my LSi 9265-8i is running on the 2nd PCI-e slot at 8x, zero compatibility issues and this RAID card is blazzing fast.

Initially I had the Samsung 830 256GB SSD running off of the 9265-8i, other than higher benchmark score I did not feel any performance gain on day to day usage, so I move the SSD back to onboard intel SATA2 port so the SSD can get TRIM.
 
Don't bother with getting an expensive PCI-E card just for SATA 3, doubt you'll notice much difference in real world usage. $130 for a 128GB m4 is money very well spent IMO. You'll wonder how you ever managed to cope with a HDD when you get one.
 
Update:

More money and a serious bored streak lead me to break my above promise and I ordered an Asus P6T6 WS mobo. I can't believe newegg still stocks that thing!!!

http://www.asus.com.au/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6T6_WS_Revolution/#specifications

I've heard various 'rumors' on forums from guys who claim they are able to run LSI Raid cards with this mobo (Hell, it has SIX PCIe 2.0 x 16 slots....)

I'll let ya know sometime in July when I get around to testing it.
 
To get the best performance you must buy the LSI MegaRAID FastPath Software.

Without it your SSD performance will be mediocre.

I believe the 9265 series takes a download so getting a refurb/open box/used is out of the question.

Looks like it costs 165.00 USD.

Good Luck!
 
skypine27 said:
Update:

More money and a serious bored streak lead me to break my above promise and I ordered an Asus P6T6 WS mobo. I can't believe newegg still stocks that thing!!!

http://www.asus.com.au/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6T6_WS_Revolution/#specifications

I've heard various 'rumors' on forums from guys who claim they are able to run LSI Raid cards with this mobo (Hell, it has SIX PCIe 2.0 x 16 slots....)

I'll let ya know sometime in July when I get around to testing it.
Click to expand...

congrats.. been running the P6T6 since release date.. I have a similar raid setup except I am running an Adaptec 6405 raid card and 4 x OCZ Max Iops 128gb SSD's.. It's been rock solid even with all the sandforce firmware issues. (I never had any of the issues others had)
 
Info:

Thanks so much for the FastPath Info. I bought the FastPath key (its an actual tiny plastic board with a jumper) as well as the battery backup unit required to enable other features when I initially bought the LSI board. If the "key" appears not to work (it didn't come with any software DVDs) after (I mean, IF) I get this thing working with the new mobo then I'll be calling TechForLess as well as MSI asking what to do. The key bridges 2 jumper pins on the board so I'm hoping that is all that is necessary. If additional software is needed, I'll deal with that if I ever get this card to work in anything.....

Well let ya guys know how (if) it works with the P6T6!
 
With most uses you can't really tell the difference between a sata 2 vs sata 3 on an ssd. You will however see a huge difference between an ssd on sata 2 and a hdd on sata 3. The ssd will beat the pants off it. Ssds are great at IOPS, which is the thing you don't have enough of when your computers hdd OS thrashing.

For bulk storage and sequential copies, theyre not usually a good use case. But formdatabasesmand boot/app partitions, they're fantastic, even on sata 2
 
gathagan said:
Don't bother with these types of controller cards, unless you get one that is PCIe x4.

Most of them (like the Startech) are PCIe x1. That connection has a bandwidth of 500 MB/s.
SATA III spec is 750 MB/s.

You also have to be careful about what components are used to make the card.
Just because a controller is physically made for a PCIe x4 slot doesn't mean the associated chips take advantage of the bandwidth.

A good portion of the PCIe x4 controllers are RAID controllers, but that doesn't mean you can't use them for non-RAID configurations.
The RAID controller BIOS, however, might add a bit of delay to your startup process.
Highpoint, Adaptec and LSI make cards like this, but they are generally a bit more focused on the enterprise market with a higher price.
Expect to pay around $80-$150 for a lower tier card like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115077

Startech also makes the PEXSAT34, which is PCIe x4.
Newegg doesn't carry it, but you can get it from Provantage or directly from Startech:
http://www.provantage.com/startech-pexsat34~7STR92FW.htm
http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapt...ntroller-Card-with-eSATA-PCIe-4-Line~PEXSAT34


Your sig doesn't identify your MB, but your CPU indicates an X58 board. If you don't have an open x4, x8 or x16 PCIe slot, the point is moot.
In that case, you're better off just connecting the drive to a SATA II port.
Click to expand...
Man thanks for this info. I always wondered what is difference in performance between pcie and pcie 4x cards.
 
ben805 said:
After 3 years, my Core i7 920-D0 with Asus P6T Deluxe V2 still kicks ass, the first 16x PCI-e slot is used by the GTX 285, while my LSi 9265-8i is running on the 2nd PCI-e slot at 8x, zero compatibility issues and this RAID card is blazzing fast.

Initially I had the Samsung 830 256GB SSD running off of the 9265-8i, other than higher benchmark score I did not feel any performance gain on day to day usage, so I move the SSD back to onboard intel SATA2 port so the SSD can get TRIM.
Click to expand...
I recently purchased an LSI 9260-8i and have an old P6T deluxe V2 but it doesn't post at all during the BIOS startup. I've tried disabling quick boot, disabling the ICH10 Marvell BIOS, disabling the Intel BIOS for the LAN card, I've turned options on an off a dozen to get the LSI to simply post its WebBIOS, tried jumper J9 on the card itself to reset it to manufacture default. Nothing seems to get it to post. The BIOS detects the card at IRQ10, but windows won't boot and windows setup won't start.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top