SAS Newbie

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panfist

Gawd
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A friend of mine recently purchased a Norco 4020 case without realizing that the backplane takes 5x SAS SFF-8087 connectors. I need to come up with some solution allowing him to tap into the backplane, but I'm pretty much 100% ignorant when it comes to server level storage hardware.

Performance doesn't need to be great, just good enough. I was looking at this Areca HBA from newegg, but it looks like it has shitty firmware and drivers (or it could just be the reviewers on newegg aren't savvy, but I think they probably are or they wouldn't even be looking at this hardware).

Is there a way to tap into this backplane without spending over $1000?
 
Raid or No RAID?

No Raid - Supermicro SASLP-MV8 + HP SAS Expander - $300
RAID - Areca 1680i/lp/x + HP SAS Expander - $800
 
As others have mentioned, it depends on what he wants to connect the backplane to and how to organize the drives.

If he only wants to hook up a few drives to SATA connectors on the motherboard to get started, then all that is needed is a reverse breakout cable or two.
 
panfist said:
A friend of mine recently purchased a Norco 4020 case without realizing that the backplane takes 5x SAS SFF-8087 connectors. I need to come up with some solution allowing him to tap into the backplane, but I'm pretty much 100% ignorant when it comes to server level storage hardware.

Performance doesn't need to be great, just good enough. I was looking at this Areca HBA from newegg, but it looks like it has shitty firmware and drivers (or it could just be the reviewers on newegg aren't savvy, but I think they probably are or they wouldn't even be looking at this hardware).

Is there a way to tap into this backplane without spending over $1000?
Click to expand...


The areca ARC-1300ix-16 is a great card. I have it on my WHS. I don't have any problems other people mentioned in the reviews. There is no problem identifying failed drives. To identify fail drive, u just need to go to WHS console to find out the serail number, reboot, enter the card's BIOS setup screen, highlight the drive with that serial number, the LED will lit (provided that your case or enclosure has HDD LED indicator for each drive).


You can't go wrong with Areca product. The Areca 1680 is great too but it is expensive. If you don't need raid, the 1300ix is a good option. The 1300ix only has 4 internal SAS connector, maybe it is not enough for your Norco4020.
 
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How does the HP SAS Expander work? I'm trying to find more info, but it's mostly marketing copy directed at HP customers.
 
nitrobass24 said:
Raid or No RAID?

No Raid - Supermicro SASLP-MV8 + HP SAS Expander - $300
RAID - Areca 1680i/lp/x + HP SAS Expander - $800
Click to expand...

Why would he not (for cost purposes) just buy 2 SASLP-MV8's ? and use his onboard SATA ports for the remaining drives - assuming he DOES NOT want RAID, is utilizing all 20 bays, and has 2 PCI-E 4X slots?

panfist said:
How does the HP SAS Expander work? I'm trying to find more info, but it's mostly marketing copy directed at HP customers.
Click to expand...

+1... I'm a little confused and see my question above.
 
jaypeezee said:
Why would he not (for cost purposes) just buy 2 SASLP-MV8's ? and use his onboard SATA ports for the remaining drives - assuming he is utilizing all 20 bays and has 2 PCI-E 4X slots.
Click to expand...

I will have to recommend that the motherboard is replaced...this file server has been growing and growing, it started out as a small HTPC in a microATX form factor and it only has 1x 16xPCIe slot, 2x PCI, and 1x 1xPCIe.
 
panfist said:
How does the HP SAS Expander work? I'm trying to find more info, but it's mostly marketing copy directed at HP customers.
Click to expand...

the most amount of info on it anywhere on the net is already right under your nose in this forum. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1484614

but i'd agree with others that two of the 8-port Supermicro SAS cards @ $100 each, plus the 4 motherboard SATA ports might be a better fit for this application.
 
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panfist said:
A friend of mine recently purchased a Norco 4020 case without realizing that the backplane takes 5x SAS SFF-8087 connectors. I need to come up with some solution allowing him to tap into the backplane, but I'm pretty much 100% ignorant when it comes to server level storage hardware.

Performance doesn't need to be great, just good enough. I was looking at this Areca HBA from newegg, but it looks like it has shitty firmware and drivers (or it could just be the reviewers on newegg aren't savvy, but I think they probably are or they wouldn't even be looking at this hardware).

Is there a way to tap into this backplane without spending over $1000?
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Norco RPC-4020 had individual SATA connectors on the backplanes and the NORCO RPC-4220 had the SFF-8087 connectors.

If he has the 4020 then he shouldn't have a problem using the onboard SATA ports but if he has the 4220 (I think that's what he actually has since he was asking/talking about the SAS/SFF-8087 connections), then he would need specialized cables or at least a breakout cable in reverse?!?
 
odditory said:
the most amount of info on it anywhere on the net is already right under your nose in this forum. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1484614

but i'd agree with others that two of the 8-port Supermicro SAS cards @ $100 each, plus the 4 motherboard SATA ports might be a better fit for this application.
Click to expand...

Sorry to steal the OP thread, but I've read most of the pages on the SAS Expander - None of them give a clear explanation as to WHY one would need/use it - If there are other options.
 
From what I can deduce, the purpose for the SAS expander is if you have a high end RAID card that's not anywhere near being maxed out by the cards connected to it. Also, if you can foresee using more than 3 of the cheap Supermicro cards, I suppose it might also make sense.
 
panfist said:
From what I can deduce, the purpose for the SAS expander is if you have a high end RAID card that's not anywhere near being maxed out by the cards connected to it. Also, if you can foresee using more than 3 of the cheap Supermicro cards, I suppose it might also make sense.
Click to expand...

Don't understand your first part... The second, I had already assumed.

A motherboard with limited ports could theoretically replace 2-3 HBA (2-4port) cards by using the HP SAS expander (9port).

With the more ports, comes cost. What' im trying to understand, which I can't seem to find a solid answer on, is can the HP SAS Expander be used on its own ? I read something about the power to the card or an issue with not being powered on its own.

Sorry to sound lame, haven't kept up with the latest and greatest
 
jaypeezee said:
A motherboard with limited ports could theoretically replace 2-3 HBA (2-4port) cards by using the HP SAS expander (9port).

With the more ports, comes cost. What' im trying to understand, which I can't seem to find a solid answer on, is can the HP SAS Expander be used on its own ? I read something about the power to the card or an issue with not being powered on its own.
Click to expand...

Couple of things:

1. The HP expander has 9 *mini-SAS* ports. Each mini-SAS port can be connected to 4 SATA drives. You have 8 mini-SAS ports free = 32 available SATA ports (see below) from each expander.

2. No, the expander cannot be used on its own. SAS allows up to 128 drives to be connected to one controller, much like an ethernet switch. The expander is the switch, but it needs an "uplink" to a SAS controller to be of any use. That link uses one of the 9 available mini-SAS ports.

3. The power issue is this: the expander needs an x8 or x16 PCI-Express slot for power (it does not use it for data). Usually, your SAS controller is on your server and the expander is in a chassis (case) containing multiple hard drives. So you can either run a motherboard/memory/CPU simply to power the expander in that case, or you can use one of the dedicated power solutions discussed in that thread. If your expander will go into a PCI-E slot on a motherboard, you can ignore this issue.

4. Something like the Areca ARC-1300-4x would be an example of a *non-RAID* SAS controller that would work with the HP expander. Together, they would give you 32 SATA ports and at approx. $350-380, be cheaper than four of those Marvell 8-port SATA cards and a motherboard that could accommodate all 4.
 
izx said:
Couple of things:

1. The HP expander has 9 *mini-SAS* ports. Each mini-SAS port can be connected to 4 SATA drives. You have 8 mini-SAS ports free = 32 available SATA ports (see below) from each expander.

2. No, the expander cannot be used on its own. SAS allows up to 128 drives to be connected to one controller, much like an ethernet switch. The expander is the switch, but it needs an "uplink" to a SAS controller to be of any use. That link uses one of the 9 available mini-SAS ports.

3. The power issue is this: the expander needs an x8 or x16 PCI-Express slot for power (it does not use it for data). Usually, your SAS controller is on your server and the expander is in a chassis (case) containing multiple hard drives. So you can either run a motherboard/memory/CPU simply to power the expander in that case, or you can use one of the dedicated power solutions discussed in that thread. If your expander will go into a PCI-E slot on a motherboard, you can ignore this issue.

4. Something like the Areca ARC-1300-4x would be an example of a *non-RAID* SAS controller that would work with the HP expander. Together, they would give you 32 SATA ports and at approx. $350-380, be cheaper than four of those Marvell 8-port SATA cards and a motherboard that could accommodate all 4.
Click to expand...

Nicely put ! thanks... Hence the name "EXPANDER"
 
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