San Francisco Passes Proposition C Also Known as the "Homeless Tax"

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by cageymaru, Nov 7, 2018.

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  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    San Francisco voters have passed the controversial Proposition C measure also known as the "Homeless Tax." Heavily promoted by tech titans such as Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff, the measure will charge corporations with revenue above $50 million about 0.5% in gross receipts tax. This money will all go towards homeless programs. Many in the local tech sector opposed it such as Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey. It will nearly double the current budget to deal with homelessness in the city as it is estimated to generate $250 million to $300 million a year. It needed two-thirds of the populace to vote in favor of it to avoid legal challenges, but it only got 60%. The city will more than likely collect the tax and bank it until the measure is heard before the courts which may take years.

    Prop. C mandated that at least half of the $300 million be spent on permanent housing for homeless people. About 25 percent was blocked out for mental health services, up to 15 percent for services to help those who recently became homeless or are at risk of becoming so, and up to 10 percent for emergency shelter and hygiene programs. Proponents said the new money can create housing for at least 5,000 people and 1,000 new emergency shelter beds. As many as 400 companies, making up 15 to 20 percent of the city's job base, will be subject to the new tax.
     
  2. Qthulu

    Qthulu n00bie

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    The problem with this....is more will end up in the city politicians pockets than will go to help homeless people
     
  3. travisty

    travisty Gawd

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    Why is this on the front page? Not tech related and is only political.
     
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  4. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Tech companies wanted it, likely why they mentioned it.
     
  5. sirsad

    sirsad [H]Lite

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    In unrelated news, 49 states are now contemplating free one way flights for the homeless to San Francisco.
     
  6. Mav451

    Mav451 [H]ardness Supreme

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  7. NukeDukem

    NukeDukem 2[H]4U

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    "Just pay for it!"
     
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  8. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    You mean they opposed it. "Many in the local tech sector opposed it such as Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey."
     
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  9. auntjemima

    auntjemima Hand Jobs Legend

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    Lol.. in the same sentence you took that part from.
     
  10. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    I am aware ;).
     
  11. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    San Francisco spends roughly $40k a year on “programs” for each homeless person. They are near the top of per-homeless person spending and they can’t even keep the streets mostly free of needles and feces. They refuse to acknowledge they just keep making the situation worse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  12. auntjemima

    auntjemima Hand Jobs Legend

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    Lol @ 40k a year. Insane.
     
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  13. capnstabn

    capnstabn Limp Gawd

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    A homeless person in SF once told me their preferred method of transportation is trains. And that they migrate to different parts of the country throughout the year based on outdoor weather conditions.
     
  14. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    The last time I was in San Fran I witnessed something I will never forget: As I walked down the street I saw a man wearing a very short skirt with his junk hanging down (easily visible, you just had to look in his general direction to see it swinging). Before I even realized what I was seeing he had pulled his skirt up and was pissing on a nearby fire hydrant - in full view of a cop. The cop did nothing.

    Later that day I saw a ~80 year old man bicycling his way down the street entirely nude. I was on a bus and the driver remarked that he did that everyday on the exact same route. The driver even knew the guys name...
     
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  15. madpawn119

    madpawn119 n00bie

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    This will only make the homeless problem worse. By giving them permanent housing there will be no reason for them to try and make a better life for themselves.
     
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  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    San Francisco has already had this problem, of other places busing their homeless there. Compound this with them having weather that allows people to survive outdoors year round.

    This might work in San Francisco. They have the combination of a large enough homeless problem that everyone is bothered by it (for different reasons) so the motivation to do something about it is there, and a captive tech startup crowd who are unlikely to pick up and leave over a small tax increase.

    This strategy probably won't work many other places through.
     
  17. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Limp Gawd

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    Before you know it the Americans are closet socialists like us Danes :playful:
    Here you are only homeless if you choose to be, or a thing like mental decease or drug abuse make it impossible for you to live in a apartment.
    Hell when my kid sister got her first kid when she was 17YO at once she was set up in a 3 room 100 Sq M apartment, that cost more every month than i have ever been able to afford while working, and my kid sister was not working back then.
     
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  18. Tiburon1186

    Tiburon1186 Gawd

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    Must be nice living off the system. Probably why so many people do it.
     
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  19. purple_monster

    purple_monster Limp Gawd

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    yeah that might work for the US if we didnt have this giant thing called Mexico next to us. It hurts to hear I know.
     
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  20. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    It can fail the way you suggest, if structured incorrectly, but it also can work if done right.

    Most homeless people don't want to be on the streets as it is. Once they find themselves there - however - it is very difficult to come back. If you don't have an address, a phone number or an email, or clean clothes and a place to clean up to prepare for a job interview it is very difficult to get a job and pill yourseöf out of that situation.

    A guy may have started on the street as a temporary thing, sleeping in his truck after his girlfriend kicked him out after a fight, or somethibg like that, and then got stuck there.

    Then there are those who are otthe street who have legitimate mental illness or substance abuse disorders and need treatment.

    Get these people into temporary modest safe housing units, help them with job search activities and those who need it with teatment for mental issues and substance abuse and structure it such that they have an incentive to do better.

    Much like the earned income tax credit, where the benefit shrinks the more money you earn, but not enough such that your total take-home is less if you work more, you can do the same with housing benefits.

    Have them pay nothing at first until they get their lives in order, then increase what they pay for rent as they earn income, but never so much such that they take home less the more they earn, and also provide a route for them to move on to more traditional low cost housing, and you could have a system that actually works.

    And we all would benefit from it. Fewer people defacating on the street and instead being productive members of society contributing to economic growth is a great thing!
     
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  21. Old_Way

    Old_Way Gawd

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    I was thinking it was only around $20K / year to house an inmate in prison (in Texas). How does it cost $40K / year to take care of a homeless person in SF?
     
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  22. purple_monster

    purple_monster Limp Gawd

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    if you want more of something you subsidize it, if you want less you tax it.

    theres lies and BS on all sides of politics but the leftists have been trying to talk and emotion their way around this simple fact since the 1920s.
     
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  23. Sikkyu

    Sikkyu I Question Reality

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    how fucked would cali be if all those companies moved to texas?
     
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  24. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

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    Please explain how you know this. I suspect it says more about you and your views about homeless people than any objective evidence. I know numerous people who refuse housing, and all the rules and restrictions that would entail.
     
  25. madpawn119

    madpawn119 n00bie

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm all for helping the homeless and needy, but when I see the word "permanent" it worries me. It will be a vicious cycle that will get worse.
     
  26. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

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    You mean how fucked would Texas be. Leftists leave the places they've poisoned with their policies for greener pastures, and proceed to transform it into what they just left. See Oregon, Washington, Colorado, etc.
     
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  27. madpawn119

    madpawn119 n00bie

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    One day they will kill the golden goose. Kinda like France did if I remember correctly. Jacked the takes and then put penalties on people trying to leave, but they still left.
     
  28. madpawn119

    madpawn119 n00bie

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    I see you've been in Huston lol
     
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  29. NukeDukem

    NukeDukem 2[H]4U

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    I just hope that when fascism crawls over Europe during THIS century (it's already begun), American boys are not once again sacrificed to save them. You choose security over freedom, you deserve to lose both.

    Have fun, slaves.

    Americans, don't let it happen here. We have got to learn from history.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  30. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    A couple of weeks ago in Seattle, I saw a women driving her car while naked, through the downtown mall area (Westlake center). Their are naked weirdos everywhere, man

    She was blasting her lungs to pop music, while stopped at a light, next to GAP.
     
  31. OpenSource

    OpenSource Gawd

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    Texas needs to look into laws prohibiting California migrants. You'll never hear left leaning California natives either admitting or realizing their tax-happy ideaology is the reason they're plopping their ass down in cheaper states. Nashville is a perfect example of this right now.
     
  32. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Let me briefly explain U.S. politics to you from an as neutral perspective as I can, to avoid running afoul of the politics rules of the forums:

    About 55% of those of us who vote in the US are in favor of greater social safety nets, much like what is present in Scandinavia.

    About 45% of those of us who vote are very much opposed.

    Because of issues like gerrymandering, targeted voter suppression, money in us politics, where wealthy donors give money to campaigns of rheir choice giving those campaigns an outsized advertising advantage, and the electoral college and fixed two senator cpunt per state regardless of size, which favors more rural conservative states over more urbanized left leaning ones, the majority needs to win elections by well above the actual simple majority in order to enact policy, so more often than not the minority gets their way.

    To be fair, both sides of our political spectrum have used these questionable tactics, but the conservative minority of the population has been much more effective at doing so.

    And that's not to mention the ~ third to half eligible voting population (depending on the election, closer to half during most midterms, closer to a third during most presidential election years) who have just given up on the process of voting, as they see it as such an unfair process and unable to enact change.

    The United States was founded on great principles for its time. Considering how long the constitution has been able to keep this country going it was very impressive work for a bunch of 18th century farmers, but if we truly seek fairness it could use a significant update for the 21st century, limiting money in politics, banning gerrymandering, more strongly defending against voter suppression, and potentially revisiting the electoral college and two senator convention making all votes of equal value.

    This is very unliked to happen in our highly divided and heated political era where political tribesmanship seems to matter more than objective fairness.

    I feel like at some point things will fall apart, probably driven by our future automated AI economy and massive unemployment forcing us to address these issues, but this might be a long long time away.
     
  33. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    That $40k per person has to be bullshit. In a lot of parts of the country you can comfortably live on $40k. How is there shit and homeless people all over the city if they are spending that kind of money. I call bullshit and if I lived there I would demand to see where that money is being spend. I would be pissed if the government suddenly slapped a huge tax on me and I still step in human shit while walking down the street.
     
  34. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    San Francisco has a 'Poop Patrol' to deal with its feces problem, and workers make more than $184,000 a year in salary and benefits.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8

    I was going to link that article.
     
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  35. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    I was reading that a family of 3 or 4 that has an income of $100,000 a year is considered low income in that area due to the housing situation and cost of living.

    Found it.

    Six-figure salary now considered ‘low-income’ in SF, according to feds.
    https://sf.curbed.com/2018/6/26/17505550/low-income-limit-2018-salary-san-francisco-families-hud

    HUD figures say “low income” limits in city start at at $82K per year for single persons and quickly break $100K for families
     
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  36. purple_monster

    purple_monster Limp Gawd

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    no stop really please hush up...... ehhhhh who am i kidding its too late for Texas anyways. The transplants who move here because of bad economies in blue states are voting in the same kind of politicians here who want to implement the same kind of policies. it baffles me.
     
  37. sirsad

    sirsad [H]Lite

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    This is a common misconception. You might want to head on over there and see for yourself. The fact of the matter is that only the 1% work after making enough money to retire. The rest of us shits dream of the day when we have enough money to quit working and live off of whatever will provide for us.
     
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  38. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    The most basic rule of economics, something that some people think they can ignore. I predict the homeless problem in San Francisco will get much worse.
    Maybe there will be less of a problem where I live as the local homeless move to San Francisco for more handouts.


    A reasonable person would assume that is true, but it's not.
    Most of these people have no interest in finding a job or getting treatment for their mental issues and substance abuse problems.
    Given the choice of getting up at 7am to go to a job, or living on the street, most pick living on the street.

    Where I live in Southern California, they finally decided to try and clean up the numerous homeless camps.
    They sent in social workers to see if these people qualified for any benefits, offered to pay for treatment programs, and put many of these people up in hotels for a couple months. Many of these "homeless" wanted no help and just relocated to somewhere else they could be homeless. Others took up the offer on the free hotel room, but did nothing but trash the hotel rooms until they where kicked out.
     
  39. Cyraxx

    Cyraxx [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah if only we had tons of non-profits with bedding, clothes, and job assistance services that pledge to help anyone that comes that is willing to kick their habits.

    Oh wait, we do.
     
  40. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Ok lets record all the relevant homeless data right now, then take a new census in 10 years and show how absolutely fucking worthless this tax was in combating homelessness and the only thing that it actually did was funnel tax money from corporations into all the groups that hold out their hands asking for funding, so some place that has spare warehouse space sets up a few dozen cots for overnight sleeping, yup they just got a paycheck. None of the abilities to help homelessness actually do anything to reverse it. I guess the only good thing that comes out of it is that it doesn't put another tax burden on the individuals of the city who already have one of the higher costs of living in the country.
     
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