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So is it safe to say that the general consensus is that there is little question the A panel is inferior to the S panel?
Is the A panel bad enough that it should be avoided? If so, what would you buy instead?
Is that photo linked to a larger image; because if it is i can't get it and i'm eager to see it!
What about the concept of taking the display panel as someone suggested. I know the CC near me has an S panel as a display model. By the way, after I explained to them what is going on with the A and S panels, they said they would waive the return policy thing so I could look at the panel in the store. Mine is being delivered to the store, not to my house. So before I take it home they will let me look at the panel to see what it is. If it is an S panel I'll take it. If it is an A panel I have a choice to make. Either pass on the whole deal or consider swapping for the display model. What do you think?
I am currently using a Dell 19" Ultra Sharp monitor. It is about 5 years old and has absolutely no backlight bleed. This is an awesome monitor. I might be spoiled. I think any backlight bleed might really bother me. Are the Dell's any better about the bleed? From what I've read, the Dell 22" isn't that great either.
Is it just me!or does it seem that since the 22"wide screen panels came out you hear alot more about backlight bleed?.Could it be that its a comination of larger size and widescreen that may cause more bleeding.I dont think i have yet to hear about a 22" without a backbleed issue.Has there been an issue of backbleed with smaller or non widescreen monitors?Just something to think about!
1. Samsung's own TN Film panel, the LTM220M1
2. AU Optronics' TN Film panel (not AOC, but AUO ) the M220EW01.
Everything else you said is correct, but please everybody remember that the panel Samsung is switching to is not "AOC" but made by "AU Optronics" also known as "AUO". Proof for this was posted when someone posted the images of "A" and "S" model OSD's which show the panel models. AOC is an Chinese/Japanese/Korean/whatever manufacturer of TFT-displays, like Viewsonic for example. AUO is the biggest Korean manufacturer of TFT-panels.
S-model has this panel: http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/Monitor/LTM220M1/LTM220M1.htm
A-model has this panel: http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec=monitor&func=info&product_id=72&items_id=1That
Basically AUO is a good panel manufacturer and most people consider their panels better than ChiMei's panels (those are used in LG L226WT for instance), but it is starting to seem that this thime AUO's panel is not very good.
Even though I'd like to see some side-by-side photos before saying my final thoughts because it is impossible to compare two separate pictures taken about backlight bleeding because the way the picture looks like depends too much on camera, on ambient lightning, etc.
Does anyone have a factual basis for the concern that "A" panel is inferior to "S" panel? I'm wondering if this forum has tried and convicted Samsung based on a perception of duplicitous business practices, but my primary interest at this point is whether the aftual TN panel quality is or isn't equivalenty between the "S" versus "A" panel. If AUO was subcontracted to produce the identical panel specifications and is a reputable manufacturer, perhaps this debate may be "much ado about nothing."
Anyone have objective comparison data or even an "educated set of eyes" to offer a difference between these 2 similarly spec'd panels?
Thanks to all for an interesting thread!
OK, I've done a "professional" calibration on this display with Colorvision's Spyder2Express product and it has made a pretty serious improvement. The before/after changes make it pretty evident that the default color on the display has a serious blue shift.
Color for photo work is now highly accepteable. I don't see any banding on photos taken with my Canon 20D SLR camera.
The only outstanding issue now is the noticeable and annoying light bleed at the bottom of the display. I will spend the next week deciding if it is bad enough that the display will have to be swapped out.
Like I posted earlier, I dont think there is a difference between the AUO and the Samsung panel, they have the same specs. People here are just freaking out and making assumptions about which is better.
My S panel has very uneven lighting. When I display a beautiful girl (clothed )as my desktop, her skin tones at the bottom are much brighter compared to the top. I didn't do any sort of obsessive compulsive testing to determine this, it was just something that caught my attention and annoyed me. Do I jump to rash conclusions that ALL S panels are bad??
No.
I just need to go back to CircuitCity and replace me monitor.
Same thing with the 226BW,
the Samsung panel is rated A++
the other panel is rated A
Has anyone tried claibrating the AUO version properly? Does this help eliminate the brightness issues and colour inaccuracies?
Yes, I've calibrated my AUO version with Spyder2 and although it fixed contrast and color right up (to the point that they are on par with a good CRT) the lighting uniformity on this panel is really, really bad, to the point that it's actually distracting.
I am hoping Circuit gets some more of these in the local stores so I can do a swapout.
^^
oh noes! you must be a viral marketer for samsung!! [/sarcasm] haha i'm surprised you didnt cover any of "that" part of the thread because for trying to get out pretty much exactly what you said some crazy person came on here and started flaming me for it thinking i must work for samsung. I even said the exact same thing about backlight bleeding, since of course it will vary on the assembly batch by batch, not by which panel was used, of course that freaked whats his name out even moreso.
well aside from the AOC thing, i'm pretty sure i said AU through most of it, really though people didnt care what company it was, it didn't change their concern whether it was AOC or AU, but i think most people got it right.
yeah, so it seems calibration does correct the colour differences people are seeing, so that's good and expected tbh. Uniformity is more random I would suggest, hopefully an RMA/swap will sort that for you regardless of whether it's a Samsung or AUO version
Color uniformity looks great and contrast is very good, but I don't think it's fair to say that one panel is as good as the other since I don't have the two of them here to compare.
Another user does have both so hopefully he will get a colorometer and calibrate both displays to report on differences.
If backlight uniformity turns out to be the principle issue I figure it's a crap shoot as to whether the next one I get is any better than this one (although as you can see from my picture above, it's pretty bad)... I'm actually rather amazed at how bad the backlight can be on these things and yet the typical consumer still seem quite happy with them.
Gunner1, as your photo shows, the degree of bleeding is quite pronounced. I just wonder when people say "slight bleeding" on top and bottom what "slight" may mean to them. My 4 years old 15" X bleeder looks better than what's showing in the picture. This really kinda puts me off. Maybe my interpretation of the photo is wrong. I would certainly wish for this to be the case.
Can anyone elaborate a bit about this monitor's motion picture performance?
If backlight uniformity turns out to be the principle issue I figure it's a crap shoot as to whether the next one I get is any better than this one (although as you can see from my picture above, it's pretty bad)... I'm actually rather amazed at how bad the backlight can be on these things and yet the typical consumer still seem quite happy with them.
One monitor that I have seen in the store against other monitors had very obvious yellow and green color reproduction problem. And I did play with controls. trying to calibrate it out. It was simply the wost monitor with respect to that. Another monitor that I bought, had exactly the same problems, and I compared it against my Trinitron CRT. I also played with controls both on video card and on the monitor itself. The problem is that yellow color is not the "clear" color, but rather a mixture of red and green, so you can't just increase it without affecting other colors. So, it is either you have to compare your monitor against other (CRT is good here) or LG-226WT has also two types of panels, one type better then another.Problem with yellow with LG-L226WT!I see no problem here!Color spectrum works great with this 226wt.Have a 226bw also with matched color display 100%.Except for alittle more backbleed with 226wt! i see no diff between 2 monitors
If films or spacers or other components used in AUO manufacturing are different then used in Samsung (for cost reasons), then it does not matter if AUO is reliable or not. So, if it is reliable, it will reliably produce different panels, while the electronics, voltages, panel design digital algorithms are designed for Samsung panel, meaning that the quality of image will be inferior on "A" panel.AUO are a reputable and very highly regarded panel manufacturer. the panel being used is an extension of that used also in the Iiyama E2200WS and Belinea 2225S1W, which are quite popular as well. Samsung have very likely supplied the screen with the intent of using their own TN Film panel, but probably due to availability, have had to use a very similar panel from AU Optronics. If demand is high, they will do that, but it doesn't automaitcally mean one is better than the other by the extent some people seem to be thinking here!
Ok, as I said I could not check the bleeding on A panel in the store, but the contrast difference was very noticeable between A and S panels, and the bleeding on my S panel is really minor, much, much smaller than what I see in the shots on this thread for A panel. It is also smaller than what I remember about LG-226WT monitor that I had for couple of days previously.I think that's a very good point too. It seems people are siting two problems with the AUO version:
- backlight bleeding / panel uniformity issues
- colour banding and over-saturation of colours
...
Colour banding and accuracy also is a bit of a hard one to gauge. One user said they had both versions, and says the colours looked better on the Samsung panel. However, they also admit that they never calibrated the screen and just plugged it in and played. Colour accuracy out of the box CAN and WILL vary greatly from one panel to another. Samsung are actually pretty good with their out-of-the-box calibration and so this might well explain the issue here. Yes, The Samsung version might well be more accurately and evenly set up from the outset, but that doesn't mean the AUO panel is crap! If you calibrated the screen properly, or even with software methods, i would suggest results would be somewhat improved. Colour banding can also be accentuated by poor set up and calibration. Poor initial factory settings might well be to blame for the apparent perceived differences people are seeing here, and for those who have managed to try both versions. I would be very surprised if this could not be corrected though with the right methods.
there's too much elite-ism going on here....far too much talk of S >>>> A!
If films or spacers or other components used in AUO manufacturing are different then used in Samsung (for cost reasons), then it does not matter if AUO is reliable or not. So, if it is reliable, it will reliably produce different panels, while the electronics, voltages, panel design digital algorithms are designed for Samsung panel, meaning that the quality of image will be inferior on "A" panel.
Ok, as I said I could not check the bleeding on A panel in the store, but the contrast difference was very noticeable between A and S panels, and the bleeding on my S panel is really minor, much, much smaller than what I see in the shots on this thread for A panel. It is also smaller than what I remember about LG-226WT monitor that I had for couple of days previously.
I agree that comparing the two models side by side in a store, or at home with default set up and config is likely to show varied results. Out of the box setup can really vary greatly...things like OSD settings (who knows if someone in the store has fiddled around with the screen!?), the PC, graphics card settings etc all come into play here. You could quite easily make any panel look terrible if you wanted to, but with the right adjustments (and certainly with a colorimeter) you could get some decent results out of both versions I think.
Did you really? I mean it is 36 pages!!!Having said that and reading this whole thread through......
not to add fule to the "A >> S" fire, but I wonder if Newegg's latest batch are mostly/all "S" panels.
I'm curious....as somewhere in this discussion, a conspiracy theory of sorts arose that A panels were being used in the interim as demand was very strong at the release of this monitor.
Having said that and reading this whole thread through......I'm still hopeful to get an S panel from CC...if they ever get it in stock here in Vegas.
not to add fule to the "A >> S" fire, but I wonder if Newegg's latest batch are mostly/all "S" panels.
I'm curious....as somewhere in this discussion, a conspiracy theory of sorts arose that A panels were being used in the interim as demand was very strong at the release of this monitor.
Having said that and reading this whole thread through......I'm still hopeful to get an S panel from CC...if they ever get it in stock here in Vegas.