Safe Assumptions?

[jeremyshaw]

EDIT: Assume... ya know the phrase.

Ignore this, as my ppd guesses are nowhere near realistic.

Hello,


I made a list earlier:

8500GT
660ppd (mine)
20USD
33ppd/usd

9600GSO
3900ppd (mine)
45USD
87ppd/usd

9800GT
4200ppd
60USD
75ppd/usd

GTS250
5000ppd
120USD
42ppd/usd

9800GX2
7000-9000ppd
150ish USD
54ppd/usd (based off of 8000ppd)

GTX260
7000-9000ppd
180ish USD
45ppd/usd

GTX275
8000-10000ppd
220USD
53ppd/usd

GTX295
20000ppd
(350)450USD
(57)45ppd/usd

HD5770
3000ppd
180USD
17ppd/usd

The format is:
NAME
PPD (guess / threadcrawling / empirical knowledge)
Price ([H] price, otherwise online retail)
PPD/Price

Is this anywhere near a semblance of correctness?

Thanks!
-Jeremy

 

[Kendrak]

The problem is prices vary on what kinda deal you can get (I didn't pay $120 for my 250s)

The other thing is, you can add 20% or so ppd on a card if you OC. Also many cards come with a stock OC that might give an easy 10% bonus over stock speeds. I'm not even going to get into what WU your using as a comparison.

But yes, you ppd are in the area that many will get.

 

[Tobit]

I agree with Kendrak. Lists like this are extremely subjective and there are too many variables to make it useful for much of anything to be honest.

 

[Vaulter98c]

Yea, Lists are kinda shot because deals are on a per-base basis

For example, When there was a bunch of 275's sold here last week or so, they went for about 84 PPD
I just picked up 2 295's for about 78 PPD
I got 2 of my 260's at 75 PPD
And I'm sure there are more

Try this instead, go PPwatt, power draw will be a constant, and until the next point refresh, points will be a constant. (OK, not EXACTLY a constant, but much better than price)

I think PPW is more important, because buying hardware is only good if you can afford to run it. The upfront costs are actually the small aspect of folding, sustainability is where its at. Thats why when teams surge, it nevers lasts too long (except EVGA, butthey have $$ up for grabs, so that changes everything)

If you find PPW, then you also have to consider other things, like prices for PSU's, Available space (single vs dual slot), needed connectors (6 pin or 8 pin?)

With PPD, you have 2 things that will sooner or later change, price is always changing, and points change every few months/a year. With wattage, you will have atleast 1 constant, and having a constant is vital. Hell, even after the new GPU client comes out, points will be all changed, prices will always fluctuate, but wattage will stay similar.

I'd say figure PPW, then break the cards into price groups, and group will have a "top" card. Then, just watch for good deals. Its a combo of patience and being in the right place at the right time. I spent weeks planning out my 1000$ upgrade, but about 3 minutes planning my latest 700$ upgrade lol

Example, a 8800 GT has a max draw of 105 watts (stock, and this is from papers, not my findings, dont kill me zero) and gets 4500 PPD or so, so 42 PPW
The GTX 295 has (acording to H) a 125 watt draw at full load (which they tested gaming, it will be slightly lower because of lower memory usage) or 152 PPW
Even if Hard is wrong, running MAX wattage per Nvidia states 289 watts, or 67 PPW, still better

 

[jeremyshaw]

Thank you Kendrak!
Thank you Tobit!
Thank you Vaulter98c! - I know prices can be very subjective

 

[Zero82z]

I believe it's more like:

8800/9800GT: ~4500-5000PPD, ~6000PPD overclocked
GTS250: ~5500-6000PPD, ~6500PPD overclocked
9800GX2: ~9000-10000PPD, ~11000PPD overclocked
GTX260 192SP: ~6500-7000PPD, ~7500PPD overclocked
GTX260 216SP: ~7000-7500PPD, ~8000PPD overclocked
GTX275: ~8000PPD, ~9000PPD overclocked
GTX295: ~14000PPD, ~15000-16000PPD overclocked

Numbers vary depending on the workunit. Also note that G80/G92 and GT200 cards get different PPD increases and decreases with different units (for example, GT200 cards tend to get more PPD with 787-point units whereas G80/G92 cards do better with 353-point units.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Thank you very much, Zero82z!

 

[Kowan]

You forgot the 285s in your list.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I'm sorry, but I don't have any 285 stats .

My list is wrong, at any rate.

 

[APOLLO]

I'm sorry, but I don't have any 285 stats .

My list is wrong, at any rate.

Jeremy, are you interested in getting the best bang for your buck in video cards? If so, how many cards are you looking at purchasing? What are you folding on now?

 

[Kowan]

The 285sOC'd, mine at least get high 8K-10k PPD.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Jeremy, are you interested in getting the best bang for your buck in video cards? If so, how many cards are you looking at purchasing? What are you folding on now?

For my previous budget, (150usd), I was told to look for a used gtx260.

However, since I got a good jump on two 260 (c192... oh well), and learned I have a bonus incomming (paychex , still late, though), I decided to buy a little extra, which lead me to create a 'ppd/price' chart.

I am currently folding on a:
9600GSO
8500GT (though this is moving out to be sold in a system)

I have:
GTX260 (c192)
GTX260 (c192)
incomming
(I also am looking for a dual slot lga775 mobo, mATX, all of which are about 110usd...)

With pending on:
8800GT

Since I don't really know how much the bonus will be, just that it is in the triple digits range, I decided to look around, and try to maximize the best I could out of dollars/ppd.

 

[APOLLO]

OK, in my area the GTX200 series of cards are very expensive, and I'm speaking about used cards not retail. I can't find anything under $230 CND for a GTX260, locally. That's why I avoid these cards. The PPD/$ isn't there compared to the staple in my farm which is the 8800GT. I have purchased 8800GT cards for as low as $75. That's about a third of the price and they produce more than half the PPD of a GTX260. Two of my 8800GTs have been hitting nearly 6500PPD each on the 353s...You might find the 200-series cheaper in the US, I can't really say, but thought of mentioning it.

Another reason I can't go in the 200-series direction presently is because my entire farm is built upon the 8800-series cards. You don't know how many times I had to swap cards across my farm in the past year. I made the right decision staying with one architecture so far. It would not have been possible to swap cards otherwise, if I decided on a mixed architecture farm from the outset.

If you're starting from a clean slate and can afford the newer cards, it might be worth investing in them, especially if you have only a few slots and need to maximize their production. That's another thing you might need to consider. Slot allocation. How many slots are you going to have available in the foreseeable future? I knew I would have many, so an older architecture wasn't so much of a big issue. Those with fewer slots have to think differently.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I'm just going to stick with the vernerable g92 core!

The 9800gt (8800gt identical) can come in 'low power' editions, that don't need an extra sixpin.

Thank you very much, APOLLO.

I'll get to work making a better chart based on ppd/watt.

 

[Zero82z]

OK, in my area the GTX200 series of cards are very expensive, and I'm speaking about used cards not retail. I can't find anything under $230 CND for a GTX260, locally. That's why I avoid these cards.

That's why you buy from the US instead. I got my 216SP GTX260 for about $140CAD (after conversion) all in.

 

[APOLLO]

That's why you buy from the US instead. I got my 216SP GTX260 for about $140CAD (after conversion) all in.

True, but there are reasons I want to avoid that. I totally understand your POV for those who can do it. I used to do it all the time since the mid 90s.

 

[APOLLO]

I'm just going to stick with the vernerable g92 core!

The 9800gt (8800gt identical) can come in 'low power' editions, that don't need an extra sixpin.

That's another reason why I stuck with the 88's, lower power requirements allowing for lower spec'd PSUs that are also lower priced. None of my 88's have dual power connectors, even the dual-slot SSC EVGA cards have only one connector and they're running the highest OCs. The more cards you're thinking of running, the greater your power consumption concerns will be.

Thank you very much, APOLLO.

I'll get to work making a better chart based on ppd/watt.

No problem, but I want to reemphasize that you need to also gaze into the crystal ball for future outlooks. How many motherboards (slots) do you intend to have? If it will be say 4 or under, you will need to maximize the production on these slots, lest you fall into a predicament that prevents you from expanding the total number of systems due to budgetary constraints yet permit an extra card or two.

Some people would rather invest in future-proofing or what I call 'future-maximizing' and lose a little in the short run. It all depends where you think you'll be heading. I can totally understand why Zero and others prefer the newer architectures, if for no other reason than to stave off obsolescence.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Thanks again, APOLLO.
The g92 core has survived for 3 generations. It's a safe bet it's still allright - 'till Fermis kick into full gear, and then some (considering how 'fast' new F@H cores come out).
Or a new client that makes ATi kickhieny again at folding.
I am slowly regretting the mATX form factor case/mobo I have (stop laughing, Kendrak). Too pricey for a decent 2+ PCIe16 slot motherboard.

At this point, I'm just looking for a decent 3 slot (ATX) mobo, with AM3 (cause I got a spare AM3 CPU around here). Not too many choices under 70usd.

Oh, well.

I'll look around.

 

[Zero82z]

That's another reason why I stuck with the 88's, lower power requirements allowing for lower spec'd PSUs that are also lower priced.

It's true that they have lower power consumption, but they do have lower PPD/W compared to GT200 cards. The real advantage of G92 cards is that you can get a lot of PPD for a pretty low price compared to new cards, but you need to have a lot of slots, and you also end up using more power for the same amount of production. Like everything, it's a tradeoff.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I guess I am the only late nighter (with no life).

I'm still working on an updated list.

 

[APOLLO]

It's true that they have lower power consumption, but they do have lower PPD/W compared to GT200 cards. The real advantage of G92 cards is that you can get a lot of PPD for a pretty low price compared to new cards, but you need to have a lot of slots, and you also end up using more power for the same amount of production. Like everything, it's a tradeoff.

Yes, very true. When I was figuring out the best PPD for my budget and my intended total production goals (60-70k PPD), the 8800GT came out on top because I had about 8-10 slots to populate.

I guess I am the only late nighter (with no life).

I'm still working on an updated list.

You're not the only late nighter. Will be interesting to see the updated list.

 

[Tobit]

Late night? No, it's early.

 

[Vaulter98c]

During the week I'll be a late night, on all night long till morning, NO ONE is on in the morning lol

As for slot population, consider this aswell, 88's will give you more range in boards. You will need 2 adjacent slots for GT200 cards, and in some boards the slots are right next to eachother.

Not a major concern, but still something to think about. My 88 rig did me well, I have no reason to think youll be any different. a good 650 watt would more than power 4 88's, ive got mine on a rosewill 630 watter

I may be selling off my entire 88 rig depending on money situations, so I'll let you know how that goes.

Also, IF you get 88's, run them naked lol, helps a bunch, them buggers can get hot

 

[Tobit]

I always wanted to do 6x single slot 88's on an Asus P6T6 or P6T7.. never shoulda sold my P6T6 (oh I think I've said that before).

 

[APOLLO]

As for slot population, consider this aswell, 88's will give you more range in boards. You will need 2 adjacent slots for GT200 cards, and in some boards the slots are right next to eachother.

I forgot, that was another reason I couldn't go with 200-series, I had two boards including my Skulltrail with adjacent slots.

Not a major concern, but still something to think about. My 88 rig did me well, I have no reason to think youll be any different. a good 650 watt would more than power 4 88's, ive got mine on a rosewill 630 watter

I'm running what some would consider low-powered PSUs with my 8800s since they're all in dual-socket workstation type systems. No way I could run theses systems with the PSUs I have inside if they were dual-connector cards requiring more power. However, when measured in terms of PPD/W, Zero is probably right that 8800s fare worse than the 200-series. You have to decide where your priorities lie, and then take it from there.

Also, IF you get 88's, run them naked lol, helps a bunch, them buggers can get hot

I run all my systems like that and there's not much choice because single-slot cards exhaust on the inside of the case. To improve cooling even further, I installed a 120mm fan over the cards where the side panel would be. Makes a huge difference especially in the warm months.

I always wanted to do 6x single slot 88's on an Asus P6T6 or P6T7.. never shoulda sold my P6T6 (oh I think I've said that before).

I have quad 8800s on my Skulltrail. Whenever I decide to replace them and the other 8800s in my farm with newer architectures being released next year, I might decide to get a board with many PCIE slots like the P6T6 and install most of my 8800s in it.

 

[jeremyshaw]

DFI 9400 mATX board has the two slots a little close, and I need to use an addon wifi card, to boot
it has SLI? Lol

at least I got it on the cheap
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[APOLLO]

DFI 9400 mATX board has the two slots a little close, and I need to use an addon wifi card, to boot it has SLI? Lol

I did an image search and that board will only acceptt single-slot cards in both slots. The highest production you'll get out of it is with dual 8800s unless you want to install one dual GPU card.