Ryzen 9 3950X vs. Threadripper 1950X

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Hi all,
I'm curious if anyone has builds that have used both processors, especially using handbrake. Both have the same core/thread count. I have a 1950X build and am still baffled by its speed.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
I tested the 2920X against the 3900X when the Ryzen 3000 series launched. The 3900X was faster in almost every single test. Often by quite a large margin. I have no doubt this would translate to the 1950X and the 3950X. In fact, the gap is likely slightly larger as the 2000 series Threadrippers saw some improvements over their 1000 series predecessors.

The biggest place you'll see a difference is in anything requiring single-threaded performance. Gaming is a great example of this. The extra L3 cache and the topology of the processor are all designed to help mitigate the latency penalties earlier processors had regarding crossing CCX boundaries.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
I tested the 2920X against the 3900X when the Ryzen 3000 series launched. The 3900X was faster in almost every single test. Often by quite a large margin. I have no doubt this would translate to the 1950X and the 3950X. In fact, the gap is likely slightly larger as the 2000 series Threadrippers saw some improvements over their 1000 series predecessors.

The biggest place you'll see a difference is in anything requiring single-threaded performance. Gaming is a great example of this. The extra L3 cache and the topology of the processor are all designed to help mitigate the latency penalties earlier processors had regarding crossing CCX boundaries.
This is what I've seen online with some of the benchmarks. I do not game, but rather use my build almost exclusively for handbrake encoding. Handbrake likes and uses multi-threaded processors, hence why threadripper exceeds at this. I use extremely high encoding settings and I am going to be increasing 4K encoding where with the 1950X I average 2.5 - 4 FPS, which is tediously slow. If I were to consider building a 3950X rig, I would have to see percentage wise how much faster Handbrake performance I could get to justify the expense.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
This is what I've seen online with some of the benchmarks. I do not game, but rather use my build almost exclusively for handbrake encoding. Handbrake likes and uses multi-threaded processors, hence why threadripper exceeds at this. I use extremely high encoding settings and I am going to be increasing 4K encoding where with the 1950X I average 2.5 - 4 FPS, which is tediously slow. If I were to consider building a 3950X rig, I would have to see percentage wise how much faster Handbrake performance I could get to justify the expense.
In multi-threaded applications the increase in performance will be there. I'm not sure that it would justify the cost as you'd need to change your motherboard, CPU and cooling solution just to make the switch. It would likely cost you more than a $1,000 to change everything over. I'm absolutely certain the 3950X will be faster, but by how much, I can't say in that specific application.
 

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,143
As an alternative why not wait until 3960X goes on sale?? Lets you reuse your current motherboard, and should happen when they replace the current threadrippers with Zen 3.

The upgrade to Zen 2 is definitely worth it, but you might as well get the most out of your upgrade!
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
As an alternative why not wait until 3960X goes on sale?? Lets you reuse your current motherboard, and should happen when they replace the current threadrippers with Zen 3.

The upgrade to Zen 2 is definitely worth it, but you might as well get the most out of your upgrade!
Sorry, but sTRX4 and socket TR4 are not compatible. He cannot upgrade to a Threadripper 3960X and use his existing socket TR4 motherboard. All said and done he would be looking at potentially doubling the price of his upgrade over a 3950X.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Sorry, but sTRX4 and socket TR4 are not compatible. He cannot upgrade to a Threadripper 3960X and use his existing socket TR4 motherboard. All said and done he would be looking at potentially doubling the price of his upgrade over a 3950X.
I knew that already. It's too bad what AMD did. The second generation threadrippers were no faster than the 1950X and regarding the 2990wx it performed SLOWER than the 1950X with Handbrake. I estimate a 3950X build will set me back around $2K. Again, if there was a significant difference in Handbrake encoding speed and specifically 4K encoding, it may be worth the upgrade.
 

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,143
I knew that already. It's too bad what AMD did. The second generation threadrippers were no faster than the 1950X and regarding the 2990wx it performed SLOWER than the 1950X with Handbrake. I estimate a 3950X build will set me back around $2K. Again, if there was a significant difference in Handbrake encoding speed and specifically 4K encoding, it may be worth the upgrade.

Gotcha. You're on;y going to see a 50% performance increase, for the cost of $2000 (just based on 1080p HEVC benchmarks). But I will agree it's your best upgrade path.

I would possibly wait for Zen 3, but that's on you. Most people are expecting the price to be identical, and the performance increase should be a lot closer to 2x than the 3950x.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Gotcha. You're on;y going to see a 50% performance increase, for the cost of $2000 (just based on 1080p HEVC benchmarks). But I will agree it's your best upgrade path.

I would possibly wait for Zen 3, but that's on you. Most people are expecting the price to be identical, and the performance increase should be a lot closer to 2x than the 3950x.
Thanks!! That's good advice. I can't justify the cost for 50%. What can I say, the 1950X build was my first build from scratch, all self taught and I'm hooked. Pushing a 3.7Ghz overclock without water cooling. I set the queue in Vidcoder and let the threadripper do its job. Sometimes the queue is so packed, my system will encode around the clock for 3-4 days straight.

Any idea when Zen 3 is rolling out?
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
I knew that already. It's too bad what AMD did. The second generation threadrippers were no faster than the 1950X and regarding the 2990wx it performed SLOWER than the 1950X with Handbrake. I estimate a 3950X build will set me back around $2K. Again, if there was a significant difference in Handbrake encoding speed and specifically 4K encoding, it may be worth the upgrade.
Not if you just upgrade the CPU and motherboard. You can use your existing RAM and other components with it. At that point, even going with a motherboard like the MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE wouldn't cost you $2,000. Total upgrade cost would be around $1,400. Not $2,000.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Not if you just upgrade the CPU and motherboard. You can use your existing RAM and other components with it. At that point, even going with a motherboard like the MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE wouldn't cost you $2,000. Total upgrade cost would be around $1,400. Not $2,000.
I hear you but still, $1,400 for maybe a 50% improvement might not justify it especially if Zen 3 is right around the corner. I wonder how much of an improvement in performance it will have over the current. Maybe a 4950X?
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Not if you just upgrade the CPU and motherboard. You can use your existing RAM and other components with it. At that point, even going with a motherboard like the MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE wouldn't cost you $2,000. Total upgrade cost would be around $1,400. Not $2,000.
On a second note, what do people usually do with processors, motherboards and extra parts they no longer use? I have a box full of Noctua 140mm fans and a Nocutua NH-U14S TR4, barely used that I don't need.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
On a second note, what do people usually do with processors, motherboards and extra parts they no longer use? I have a box full of Noctua 140mm fans and a Nocutua NH-U14S TR4, barely used that I don't need.
Sell them here in the FS/FT forum or via Ebay or something.
 

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,143
Thanks!! That's good advice. I can't justify the cost for 50%. What can I say, the 1950X build was my first build from scratch, all self taught and I'm hooked. Pushing a 3.7Ghz overclock without water cooling. I set the queue in Vidcoder and let the threadripper do its job. Sometimes the queue is so packed, my system will encode around the clock for 3-4 days straight.

Any idea when Zen 3 is rolling out?

Should be August or September.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
Thanks!! That's good advice. I can't justify the cost for 50%. What can I say, the 1950X build was my first build from scratch, all self taught and I'm hooked. Pushing a 3.7Ghz overclock without water cooling. I set the queue in Vidcoder and let the threadripper do its job. Sometimes the queue is so packed, my system will encode around the clock for 3-4 days straight.

Any idea when Zen 3 is rolling out?
The 1950X should be able to do 4.1GHz. Obviously, that would take a good AIO or a custom loop to pull off, but all of them I've ever seen could do it.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
The 1950X should be able to do 4.1GHz. Obviously, that would take a good AIO or a custom loop to pull off, but all of them I've ever seen could do it.
No way. Custom loop maybe but no AIO will cool better than the setup I have...Thermalright Silver Arrow TR4 with dual 140mm Noctua Chromax fans running full speed. During video encoding with Vidcoder, every core of the 1950X is pushing about 100%. Maybe in less cpu intensive tasks. I have experimented with the volts for a long time and cannot push more than 1.24 (1.23750) volts without temps passing 68C. Pushing the 1950X past 3.7Ghz at this voltage results in an unstable overclock, not even 3.8Ghz. I originally started with the Enermax Liqtech TR4 360. Total garbage...Went through two and both leaked and didn't cool better than my setup now even before they weren't leaking. I've seen people boast 3.9-4.1Ghz overclocks online. I don't know what applications they are using but the way Vidcoder pushes every core of the 1950X, averaging 230 watts can't keep the temps lower than 68C. Even with my current overclock the temps get up to 71C when the ambient room temp is warm.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
No way. Custom loop maybe but no AIO will cool better than the setup I have...Thermalright Silver Arrow TR4 with dual 140mm Noctua Chromax fans running full speed. During video encoding with Vidcoder, every core of the 1950X is pushing about 100%. Maybe in less cpu intensive tasks. I have experimented with the volts for a long time and cannot push more than 1.24 (1.23750) volts without temps passing 68C. Pushing the 1950X past 3.7Ghz at this voltage results in an unstable overclock, not even 3.8Ghz. I originally started with the Enermax Liqtech TR4 360. Total garbage...Went through two and both leaked and didn't cool better than my setup now even before they weren't leaking. I've seen people boast 3.9-4.1Ghz overclocks online. I don't know what applications they are using but the way Vidcoder pushes every core of the 1950X, averaging 230 watts can't keep the temps lower than 68C. Even with my current overclock the temps get up to 71C when the ambient room temp is warm.
A custom loop can definitely do it as I have done it. I've clocked a couple of 1950X's to 4.1GHz.
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
A custom loop can definitely do it as I have done it. I've clocked a couple of 1950X's to 4.1GHz.
Good for you. I don't want the headache of a custom loop. I'm enjoying the peace of mind of a nice, big ass heatsink.🙂
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,772
No way. Custom loop maybe but no AIO will cool better than the setup I have...Thermalright Silver Arrow TR4 with dual 140mm Noctua Chromax fans running full speed. During video encoding with Vidcoder, every core of the 1950X is pushing about 100%. Maybe in less cpu intensive tasks. I have experimented with the volts for a long time and cannot push more than 1.24 (1.23750) volts without temps passing 68C. Pushing the 1950X past 3.7Ghz at this voltage results in an unstable overclock, not even 3.8Ghz. I originally started with the Enermax Liqtech TR4 360. Total garbage...Went through two and both leaked and didn't cool better than my setup now even before they weren't leaking. I've seen people boast 3.9-4.1Ghz overclocks online. I don't know what applications they are using but the way Vidcoder pushes every core of the 1950X, averaging 230 watts can't keep the temps lower than 68C. Even with my current overclock the temps get up to 71C when the ambient room temp is warm.
Why are you worried about staying that cool? It should be fine up to 85C (and above, but those are temps people usually shoot for).

As to the original question, I went from a 1920X to 3950X, it was a very large jump and I got decent money for the tr4 setup on the used market. I reused the psu, ram and cooler (the corsair aio has mounts for both tr4 and am4) so total cost was only around $400.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan_D
like this

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
8,570
3950x smokes .. no.. obliterates the 1950x. It shits down its throat then pisses in its face.

Ive owned all of these chips.

I have a 3960x and it smokes everything under it and in some special ways everything above it.

To me the best CPU AMD has ever made is the 3900x and the 3960x.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,128
If $2000 is the max budget, one option is the 3960x + Motherboard, reuse your ram, CPU cooling, power supply. . . Everything else basically.

Comparing a 3960x vs 2950x (higher performing than a 1950x somewhat) in Handbrake at PCMag 12min 4k to 1080p:
2950x took 4min 13sec
3960x took 2min 59sec
The 2950x was 41% slower, that could add up over time, not sure how the 1950x compares to the 2950x for Handbrake but expect the 1950x to be slower.

https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-3960x
 

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,143
3950x smokes .. no.. obliterates the 1950x. It shits down its throat then pisses in its face.

Ive owned all of these chips.

I have a 3960x and it smokes everything under it and in some special ways everything above it.

To me the best CPU AMD has ever made is the 3900x and the 3960x.
EDIT:

The 3960X does seem to scale pretty well in Handbrake (anandtech seems to be wrong about that.)

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...x-3960x-intel-10980xe-cascade-lake-cpu-review

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-threadripper-3970x-review/5

It's probably the older version they're using.


And I agree that 3.7 ghz is fine. The most you'll gain is a 10% performance increase at 4.1 ghx, and for that, you'll increase power consumption by 200w That last 10% frequency bump comes with massive additional costs. Which is why people like you are crazy enough to build custom loops (damn the power consumption, full-speed ahead) :rolleyes:

The best upgrade path for the OP is to save up for the 3960x, or wait for Zen 3 to bump up the 4950x up closer to 24-core Zen 2 levels.
 
Last edited:

Rajveer

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
226
3950x smokes .. no.. obliterates the 1950x. It shits down its throat then pisses in its face.

Ive owned all of these chips.

I have a 3960x and it smokes everything under it and in some special ways everything above it.

To me the best CPU AMD has ever made is the 3900x and the 3960x.
Do you game? If so how did you find the move from 3950x to 3960x? I'm looking to buy one of these (finally moving away from X58), and am seriously considering the 3960x as I also do a lot of compiling and the TRX40 looks more future-proof, but I also want something that performs well for 144Hz gaming and also VR (so again up to 144Hz double frames).
 
Last edited:

whateverer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,143
Do you game? If so how did you find the move from 3950x to 3960x? I'm looking to buy one of these (finally moving away from X58), and am seriously considering the 3960x as I also do a lot of compiling and the TRX40 looks more future-proof, but I also want something that performs well for 144Hz gaming and also VR (so again up to 144Hz double frames).
The extra memory bandwidth means some games yield up to 10% higher performance.

For anything 32-core or less, the stock turbo boost is identical top the 3950x (and you can just clock the 48 and 64-core versions higher, at the cost of power)

Since they've fixed the memory controller setup, the per-core scaling is a lot smoother in everything.
 

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
8,570
Do you game? If so how did you find the move from 3950x to 3960x? I'm looking to buy one of these (finally moving away from X58), and am seriously considering the 3960x as I also do a lot of compiling and the TRX40 looks more future-proof, but I also want something that performs well for 144Hz gaming and also VR (so again up to 144Hz double frames).
Gaming is very enjoyable. As a true measure of cpu performance one game I play A LOT is Titanfall 2. I have a 240hz monitor. The game is frame locked at 144hz. Howeever using some vsync tricks in my 2080ti control panel I can get game to unlock fps. With titanfall 2 @ 1080p maximum settings possible I tegularly hold 220+ fps.

My oculus rift is frame maxed at 90fps per eye regardless of title.

I also play at 3440x1440p on my Acer x34. Now at this very hi res we all know gpu is the main part but every last game I can throw at it runs @ 100fps which is my gsync fps max.

The 3960x has 128mb of l3 cache which is insane. Last night as a matter of fact I was playing Titanfall 2 at 220 to 230fps avg ultra settings and running 2 handbrake h265 encodes at the same time without a glitch.

3950x is a nice chip but as I have said before, the 3960x runs circles around it overall.

And yes the 3960 is a workstation CPU and is a different segment. I get that.

Of course you also need to consider that a 3950x is just as fast if not a bit faster in games due to its slightly higher clock speed. But it runs significantly hotter due to the tiny IHS to die ratio and so the differences are negatively impacted. For the 3960 its the high price that offsets it. Both are a waste if all.your gonna do is game with them. If all your doing is pure gaming save a whole cow load of cash and get a 3600 and spend the rest of your cash on a badass GPU and some very fast 3600 c16 or 18 ram that can be tightened to 15ns.
 
Last edited:

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
EDIT:

The 3960X does seem to scale pretty well in Handbrake (anandtech seems to be wrong about that.)

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...x-3960x-intel-10980xe-cascade-lake-cpu-review

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-threadripper-3970x-review/5

It's probably the older version they're using.


And I agree that 3.7 ghz is fine. The most you'll gain is a 10% performance increase at 4.1 ghx, and for that, you'll increase power consumption by 200w That last 10% frequency bump comes with massive additional costs. Which is why people like you are crazy enough to build custom loops (damn the power consumption, full-speed ahead) :rolleyes:

The best upgrade path for the OP is to save up for the 3960x, or wait for Zen 3 to bump up the 4950x up closer to 24-core Zen 2 levels.
The 3960X is almost twice the price as the 3950X. I'm going wo wait a few months and see what the Zen 3 chips offer. I like to push the overclock of the processor only as far as it is SAFE without going nuts and with air cooling. Not interested in the headaches of custom water loop and AIOs can't cool better than the Thermalright. AMD says the max. safe temp for the 1950X is 68C. Do you know what it is for the 3950X and 3960X?
 

dpriest

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
89
Why are you worried about staying that cool? It should be fine up to 85C (and above, but those are temps people usually shoot for).

As to the original question, I went from a 1920X to 3950X, it was a very large jump and I got decent money for the tr4 setup on the used market. I reused the psu, ram and cooler (the corsair aio has mounts for both tr4 and am4) so total cost was only around $400.
You are the first person I heard pushing the 1950X past 68C and much hotter at 85C. Excessive heat profoundly shortens the life of a processor. Plus there is throttling past 68C which is counterintuitive.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
I also play at 3440x1440p on my Acer x34. Now at this very hi res we all know gpu is the main part but every last game I can throw at it runs @ 100fps which is my gsync fps max.
This is not true. The Acer X34 Predator can do 120Hz via overclocking the panel. This feature is accessible in it's menus. My Alienware has the same panel if I recall correctly. It works great. Aside from that, the 3950X is just fine for gaming, if not better than anything AMD has for that purpose by virtue of its boost clocks being the highest of any CPU it offers. That said, I agree. The 3960X is better in just about every other way, but you pay for that extra performance. The CPU alone is about double the price and the motherboard's cost of entry is quite a bit higher. Then of course, you need four DIMMs to enable quad-channel memory support. Your cooling solution will also need to be a lot beefier to handle a 24c/48t CPU.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,772
You are the first person I heard pushing the 1950X past 68C and much hotter at 85C. Excessive heat profoundly shortens the life of a processor. Plus there is throttling past 68C which is counterintuitive.
There's no throttling at 68C, it just reduces XFR boost. It doesn't drop below base frequency until much hotter (which is throttling). I don't think there's anybody that OCs a threadripper meaningfully that stays anywhere near 68C under load, and there are plenty here that oc them quite a bit.
 

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
8,570
This is not true. The Acer X34 Predator can do 120Hz via overclocking the panel. This feature is accessible in it's menus. My Alienware has the same panel if I recall correctly. It works great. Aside from that, the 3950X is just fine for gaming, if not better than anything AMD has for that purpose by virtue of its boost clocks being the highest of any CPU it offers. That said, I agree. The 3960X is better in just about every other way, but you pay for that extra performance. The CPU alone is about double the price and the motherboard's cost of entry is quite a bit higher. Then of course, you need four DIMMs to enable quad-channel memory support. Your cooling solution will also need to be a lot beefier to handle a 24c/48t CPU.

Absolutely nope on 120hz.

Maybe the 2019 version can but I have the first release of this panel. If there is some firmware update method I'd love to know how.

I got mine in 2016 I believe
1586586953772.png
 

RamonGTP

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,961
Are you making money doing these encodes? If so, upgrade. If not, don’t. Whether its $1400 or $2000, that’s a lot just to be able to encode 4K at 6 fps instead of 4 FPS if you’re not getting any sort of monetary compensation for doing it.
 

jpouza

n00b
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
23
I have a 2950X with Noctua U14S TR4-SP3 @ PBO, no complaints at all...Zen 2 is better for sure, but the need of changing the motherboard is a fact and it sucks a lot for old TR4 owners, different from the AM4 socket that accepted 3rd gen Ryzen... if it was only the processor I would upgrade to a 3960x or 3970x in a second, IMHO just wait for Zen 3, it's arriving soon, it'll be worth it.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
46
While the 3950X would certainly be faster than a 1950X thanks to it's massively improved IPC and higher clock speeds, you'd have to factor in the cost of also getting a new board to support it.
 

mjz_5

2[H]4U
Joined
May 24, 2001
Messages
3,624
I don’t understand. Any of these CPUs are going to be great for gaming. No one needs more than 120fps. Unless you have superman eyes. It’s all just for epenis
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,772
I don’t understand. Any of these CPUs are going to be great for gaming. No one needs more than 120fps. Unless you have superman eyes. It’s all just for epenis
It depends on the game. I run a lot of vr games and they need 90fps for frame minimums. In dx11 games, that often hammers the cpu on a single thread with draw calls as they are doubled vs 2d, meaning zen and zen+ often struggle in high scene complexity, even at 4ghz.

That said, nobody should be buying a tr primarily for gaming.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
56,206
I don’t understand. Any of these CPUs are going to be great for gaming. No one needs more than 120fps. Unless you have superman eyes. It’s all just for epenis
Actually, Zen/Zen+ based Threadripper CPU's are not great for gaming. Due to their design, the earlier Threadripper CPU's have some latency issues which hurt their gaming performance. These are not terrible processors, but the net result is that they tend to have lower minimum frame rates than the 3000 series Ryzens or their Intel counterparts.
 

Hakaba

Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
699
I don’t understand. Any of these CPUs are going to be great for gaming. No one needs more than 120fps. Unless you have superman eyes. It’s all just for epenis
Ehhh... Higher FPS does allow more wiggle room when your FPS decides to take a dip.
 
Top