[RUMOUR] RDNA 3 feature(s) baked into PS5

Marees

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claim by RedGamingTech on twiiter

RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:
@Tidux Yep. RDNA 3 is almost confirmed by me now. My original source said it, but then another basically confirmed it. I also know some stuff about the CPU / APUs too I might pop up this weekend.
https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256258785837907974?s=20

80% sure
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:
@jo_vii @Tidux As I said, I'm about 80 percent sure. I don't know who told @tidux - but I'm growing pretty convinced from what I've been told (with vetted sources).

I don't know about Xbox though
https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256303067827523590?s=20

more details of this claim in upcoming video
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:
@MehNitesh2 @Tidux Unfortunately no, I don't know the features exactly. I do have a bit of speculation to one of them based on what I was told - I'll talk about it in an upcoming video.

I DO know a few CPU customizations though which I'll discuss.
https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256261045913608198?s=20

No info on Xbox X
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:
@bigking123 @Tidux Though it's possible this was a feature Sony requested FIRST, then AMD implemented it to RDNA 3. I think Microsoft had so big impacts on the GPU roadmap too, but I have less xbox info so I can't get specific info there, unfortunately.
https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256259508436951048?s=20

via notebookcheck.net

https://www.notebookcheck.net/RDNA-...-some-exclusive-RDNA-3-features.463470.0.html
 

Marees

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Related News:

According to Marc-André Jutras of Cradle Games, the PlayStation 5‘s Tempest Engine is hardware accelerated and will be a huge boost to the system’s CPU. In a recent interview with GamingBolt the technical developer of Hellpoint heaped praise on the Tempest Engine and its hardware-accelerated nature.

The Hellpoint developers seem really taken by it, as do some other developers speaking up about it.

https://www.psu.com/news/ps5s-tempest-engine-hardware-acceleration-will-free-up-cpu-power/

It seems that even though we know very little about the Tempest Engine, Cerny hopes it will make enemies easier to identify and game worlds more realistic. If it also takes some of the load of the PS5’s CPU, then developers will have that much more extra performance to play with.
 

Snowdog

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claim by RedGamingTech on twiiter

RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:


https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256258785837907974?s=20

80% sure
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:


https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256303067827523590?s=20

more details of this claim in upcoming video
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:


https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256261045913608198?s=20

No info on Xbox X
RedGamingTech (@RedGamingTech) Tweeted:


https://twitter.com/RedGamingTech/status/1256259508436951048?s=20

via notebookcheck.net

https://www.notebookcheck.net/RDNA-...-some-exclusive-RDNA-3-features.463470.0.html
That's very empty of any actual information, even for a rumor.
 

Halon

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MS killed hardware accelerated audio because creative was the cause of something like 80 percent of the crashes win xp was having.
Nah, Creative's hardware woes didn't play into the decision. Hardware-accelerated audio was jettisoned for a few, mostly very good reasons:
* When DirectSound was using a hardware DSP, the lowest sampling rate in use by an application would become the sampling rate used for all audio playing. I.e., if you were playing Quake while also playing mp3s, for anything using the sound card's DSP, you'd be rocking out at 11 KHz for all audio playing unless the application working with low sampling precision audio had the foresight to "pad" it to 44 KHz.
* SIMD instructions became ubiquitous in all new CPUs, and performant enough to handle anything a PCI sound card DSP could. With the advent of multi-core processors it became especially sensible to spin audio handling out to plural threads. The issue of API support to manage software playback of 3D audio was its own issue, but provisions were made.
* To ensure ideal, accurate audio reproduction at a system level, from Vista onward Windows has handled audio of any kind as high precision floats.

None of this made Vista's initial woes easier to swallow - in some instances people were losing 10-15% of their performance to CPU-driven audio versus the old DirectSound way. But in the long run, and with more current hardware capability to leverage, it was the right call.
 
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Revdarian

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Leaving the sensationalism aside it should be understood as this:

RDNA3 will include some of the individual features that each console maker requested from AMD if AMD finds it useful for their products.


Cache scrubbers aren't very useful for discreet cards, for an APU tho it could be a good idea. (Do read up about them, they require a specific setup between the system i/o and the gpu, it doesn't make sense to add to discreet cards that may be paired with Intel nor would it make sense to put the extra hardware on Ryzen that may be paired with Nvidia)



About the tempest engine being hardware accelerated:
Well, duhhh that's what it means to have a physical chip (in this case it's a modified CU without cache but instead DMA, able to process two wave 32 waves, one for the system and the other for audio, with performance stimated at 100GF which for audio is A LOT specially compared to the current consoles.
 
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Rumours indicate that next console by company X will have sooper sekrit tek that will make it the greatest gaming thing that ever gamed a game!?

Never seen that before....
 

EniGmA1987

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The PlayStation engine is hardware accelerated!
So...like just about every console engine ever? Where the hell do people think console efficiency comes from? You program for the specific hardware and have more direct access to that hardware. Do you know what that is called when the hardware is designed for processing your exact stuff? hardware acceleration.
 

Wat

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Nah, Creative's hardware woes didn't play into the decision. Hardware-accelerated audio was jettisoned for a few, mostly very good reasons:a
I dont doubt anything you are saying, but I do remember MS talking about the problems that "a certain sound card maker" driver had on the overall stability of windows. This was back when apple was hammering them over security and stability issues. I think MS really wanted to shed that image.
I always wanted to try out an x-fi on battlefield 2. I heard a lot of good things about it.
 
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Furious_Styles

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MS killed hardware accelerated audio because creative was the cause of something like 80 percent of the crashes win xp was having.
Haha I remember that debacle and stopped buying creative products because they were being dicks about shit drivers. Sucks too because I was a loyal customer at that point.
 

Halon

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I dont doubt anything you are saying, but I do remember MS talking about the problems that "a certain sound card maker" driver had on the overall stability of windows. This was back when apple was hammering them over security and stability issues. I think MS really wanted to shed that image.
I always wanted to try out an x-fi on battlefield 2. I heard a lot of good things about it.
A Sound Blaster Live used as a dumb buffer while the CPU did the grunt work would probably minimize stability issues on VIA and non-Intel chipsets of the time, versus trying to engage that finicky EMU10K chip. It's really sad that Microsoft felt pressure to take that into account. It's also a good time to remember that, nostalgia be damned, Creative Labs was mostly a self-serving impediment to progress in the markets they dominated.

The technical reasons for embracing a more forward-looking audio subsystem were valid. The loss of DirectSound acceleration stank 14 years ago, but it was probably time to migrate to OpenAL anyway. And in its way - especially for professional-caliber audio - it's much better to have a robust system in place that ensures accurate reproduction than a mine field of DSP-dependent "this works if..." rules that change from system to system.
 

Lakados

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MS killed hardware accelerated audio because creative was the cause of something like 80 percent of the crashes win xp was having.
Yeah because of it they even went so far as to kill direct kernel access for drivers in Vista at the 13’th hour because Creative and HP were causing far too many problems there too. Which lead to their decision not to back port much of their existing hardware.
 

Marees

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According to Tom, who runs a channel called ‘Moore’s law is dead‘ on YouTube, the geometry engine in the PS5 actually comes from ‘RDNA 3’ or at least the one present in the console is unfortunately not supported by the RDNA 2 architecture. More importantly (perhaps more believably), Sony is using a custom shader in the geometry engine that handles variable rate Mesh shading (drawing polygons on screen) differently than the desktop RDNA 2 once it launches. It is way faster than the shader present on Xbox GPU or any PC graphics card based on RDNA 2.

https://appuals.com/sources-suggest...akes-it-superior-to-the-mighty-xbox-series-x/
 

Marees

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That's very empty of any actual information, even for a rumor.
Will update this thread once Redgamingtech posts his video 😉

  • PS5 has a more advanced geometry handler than what is featured on RDNA 2 and is found on the PS5 GE block and will be very important for VR as well
  • This customisation and revisions Cerny has made to the Geometry Engine will be featured on RDNA 3 and the larger GPU caches that PS5 features will also feature on RDNA 3
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/hxro2i/redgamingtech_on_ps5_architecture/
 

variant

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There's a possibility the PS5 has different customizations than the XSX, but none of that is going to make up for the 2 fewer teraflops.
 

sabrewolf732

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I really like AMD and all, but this all seems like a stretch. AMD is going to drop crazy alien technology into a console with tiny margins while they have difficulty fighting Nvidia? Why not incorporate RDNA3 technology into RDNA2 instead of putting it into a console with slim margins?

I don't get it.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I really like AMD and all, but this all seems like a stretch. AMD is going to drop crazy alien technology into a console with tiny margins while they have difficulty fighting Nvidia? Why not incorporate RDNA3 technology into RDNA2 instead of putting it into a console with slim margins?

I don't get it.
AMD can just not ship updated discrete GPUs, and only r/AMD will cry.

They can't not deliver for Microsoft and Sony on the other hand. Screw that up and they will likely cease to exist.
 

Sycraft

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The technical reasons for embracing a more forward-looking audio subsystem were valid. The loss of DirectSound acceleration stank 14 years ago, but it was probably time to migrate to OpenAL anyway. And in its way - especially for professional-caliber audio - it's much better to have a robust system in place that ensures accurate reproduction than a mine field of DSP-dependent "this works if..." rules that change from system to system.
It also doesn't matter so much these days. Audio processing really isn't that hard. Time was you'd get things like AccelHD cards to do audio processing for pro audio, and something like a IR convolution reverb took a dedicated system. Now? Shit I use convolution reverbs on multiple channels, everything is mixed and handled in software and it really isn't a big hit on CPUs. So it makes sense to move to software as it is more flexible and you can implement the audio system you'd like. While it does mean the CPU has to do more work... that really hasn't been a problem for most games, we usually have idle CPU cores.
 

sabrewolf732

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AMD can just not ship updated discrete GPUs, and only r/AMD will cry.

They can't not deliver for Microsoft and Sony on the other hand. Screw that up and they will likely cease to exist.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why they would not make discrete gpu viable. If they're able to incorporate RNA3 into a console, how come we don't have RDNA 2 yet for discrete GPU? Why are they getting destroyed in the 500+ market?
 

IdiotInCharge

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I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why they would not make discrete gpu viable. If they're able to incorporate RNA3 into a console, how come we don't have RDNA 2 yet for discrete GPU? Why are they getting destroyed in the 500+ market?
Likely because they have to wait in line at TSMC to get it manufactured.
 

DukenukemX

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MS killed hardware accelerated audio because creative was the cause of something like 80 percent of the crashes win xp was having.
MS killed it because Creative was using Direct Sound as the backbone to EAX and Creative was licensing it out. Remember when EAX went after John Carmack over Doom 3 not having EAX? That's probably why.
 

variant

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I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why they would not make discrete gpu viable. If they're able to incorporate RNA3 into a console, how come we don't have RDNA 2 yet for discrete GPU? Why are they getting destroyed in the 500+ market?

Because it wouldn't be RNA3 in a console, it's custom designed console technology in RNA3.
 

Axman

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Why not incorporate RDNA3 technology into RDNA2 instead of putting it into a console with slim margins?
There's nothing slim about the console margins. Even if the per-unit profit isn't great, the volume makes up for it. To the point where Microsoft and Sony (and Nintendo and everyone else) have and will sell first-generation consoles at a loss to secure market share and future profits.
 

Wat

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I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why they would not make discrete gpu viable. If they're able to incorporate RNA3 into a console, how come we don't have RDNA 2 yet for discrete GPU?
I am sure there is a lot of legal walls thrown up around the console designs. For example, Sony would not want MS to get its hands on sony's ideas before the console launch.(after launch its too late).

So if Sony and AMD come up with a great idea while working together on the custom chip, AMD may get to use that idea, but definitely not until the console has launched.
 

Revdarian

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I really like AMD and all, but this all seems like a stretch. AMD is going to drop crazy alien technology into a console with tiny margins while they have difficulty fighting Nvidia? Why not incorporate RDNA3 technology into RDNA2 instead of putting it into a console with slim margins?

I don't get it.
Designing a chip takes a lot of time, the rdna2 design was over quite a bit prior rdna1 shipping, after the design was done AMD sent two different groups of engineers to Sony and Microsoft, they couldn't be in touch with each other to ensure that industrial secrets of each company stayed that way while working on their respective semicustom, after each company finished their individual tweaks these groups could share with their HQ what they worked on (still not with each other), there they can analyze and see what is and what isn't useful enough to be added in the next chip design.

So as it was pointed it isn't that rdna3 was fully designed but that they are going to add to the, at that moment not finished, rdna3 design some features from the upcoming consoles.

An example of this on the generation that is ending is the tweak to the number of Asynchronous Compute Engines.
Edit: AMD used 2 ACE units initially, Sony tweaked it to 8, and the next generation onwards of GCN cards included 8 for finer granularity.
 

Halon

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Linx or it didn't happen. I still have an audigy 2zs in my mom's win 10 PC using audigy RX drivers.
The Audigy 2's pretty well past the source of the problem - many of us here have long memories. This was a much older mess - Sound Blaster Lives (and, IIRC, the first Audigy cards) did cause stability issues on non-Intel hardware. VIA motherboard southbridges were the main source of the problem; IIRC a number of them didn't implement PCI bus parking, which the Live did not react well to. The original Lives were twiddly anyway - a native sampling rate of 48KHz meant everything you played through them was resampled to play nice with the EMU10K1 DSP, and DOS support was sorta iffy back when it still mattered for people's game back catalogs. There's speculation that the Lives and their finicky behavior were a contributing factor to Microsoft's decision to discontinue hardware DirectSound support starting with Windows Vista. I can't say whether that's true, and suspect the ubiquity of SIMD capabilities in conjunction with greater multithreading and high clockspeeds was a bigger driver, but it's not wrong to remember that Creative Labs caused some problems in their heyday.

MS killed it because Creative was using Direct Sound as the backbone to EAX and Creative was licensing it out. Remember when EAX went after John Carmack over Doom 3 not having EAX? That's probably why.
Creative Labs went after id Software because the game extensively used an algorithm which optimized stencil buffered shadow performance that Creative Labs owned a patent on. The fact that the algorithm is called Carmack's Reverse didn't matter; Creative (by way of its 3DLabs acquisition) leveraged the patent to pressure id into including EAX support in Doom 3. While it went mostly unremarked upon, Monolith's F.E.A.R. also used stencil-buffered shadows, and also sported day one EAX support.
 
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Revdarian

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BTW guys, resetera found this paper about cache scrubbers functionality on a cpu, to get an idea of what it could bring in this case for the gpu:

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~mckinley/papers/bandwidth-pact-2014.pdf


Here's the important thing found:
""Scrubbing reduces average DRAM traffic by 59%, total DRAM energy by 14%, and dynamic DRAM energy by 57% on a range of configurations. Cooperative software/hardware cache scrubbing reduces memory bandwidth and improves energy efficiency, two critical problems in modern systems""

If only a fraction of those benefits are achieved by the PS5 then it would quite the helpful addition to the rdna2 architecture. Every little bit of bandwidth saved will be important when balancing the i/o, tempest and the massive weight of raytracing operations bandwidth wise.
 

next-Jin

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I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why they would not make discrete gpu viable. If they're able to incorporate RNA3 into a console, how come we don't have RDNA 2 yet for discrete GPU? Why are they getting destroyed in the 500+ market?
It’s probably in the contract, it is not in Sony or Microsofts interest to have their consoles obsolete day 1 like last time. Maybe this way they can get to 5 years without needing a Pro variant. All speculation really but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because of contractual agreements.
 

NKD

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I really like AMD and all, but this all seems like a stretch. AMD is going to drop crazy alien technology into a console with tiny margins while they have difficulty fighting Nvidia? Why not incorporate RDNA3 technology into RDNA2 instead of putting it into a console with slim margins?

I don't get it.
Not how it works. AMD is not accelerating a whole GPU for consumers. That runs on a different timeline. On the other hand they have different projects for Sony and Microsoft that they work exclusively with them. They are all different projects. If sony wants to shell out and asked for a custom design then that is design on its own timeline.
 

Marees

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