[Rumor] - Microsoft to offer a free cloud-based Windows

[octoberasian]

http://hothardware.com/News/Microsoft-Rumored-To-Be-Developing-Free-Windows-CloudBased-OS/
WZOR post from Google Translate.

The information is from Russian leaker WZOR, which noted that rumors that Windows 9 or Windows 8.2 will be free could actually point to a free version that would actually be cloud-based. It’s somewhat difficult to parse the language of WZOR’s post on the matter with a rough Google translation, but it appears as though users could download and install the so-called “Windows Cloud” from the BIOS.

Read more: http://hothardware.com/News/Microso...ing-Free-Windows-CloudBased-OS/#ixzz2zupBQlEC

TL;DR summary:

• Windows 8.2 or Windows 9 will be free
• A cloud-based version of Windows (likely 9) will be offered for free
• Some functionality of the OS will also be available offline; other functions may come with a subscription and require internet connectivity similar to Office 365 (speculative)
• Code named "Windows Shadow Cloud"
• Similar to ChromiumOS/ChromeOS
• Can be downloaded and installed from the BIOS (new UEFI version incoming?)
• Other tidbits: Windows 9 will come with a modified Classic Start Menu as a result of Windows 8.2 available for non-touchsreen computers.

Again, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Liger88]

*sigh*

 

[Tsumi]

More likely:

Windows 8.2 will definitely be a free upgrade for 8 users.
Windows 9 will be released as a standalone version.
Launching alongside Windows 9 will be a cloud-based Windows version.
Windows 9 will be a free or very cheap upgrade for Windows 8 users.
Windows 9 will be a more costly upgrade for Windows 7 and previous users.

Same thing as what happened with Office 2013 and 365.

 

[Autopia]

this will happen, micro$oft is trying to figure out what they can do to make more $. sucks they are following after giggly. it is time for LINUX! yes i'm old school here.

 

[Faethon]

this will happen, micro$oft is trying to figure out what they can do to make more $. sucks they are following after giggly. it is time for LINUX! yes i'm old school here.

Same here... I will stay with Windows 7 for as long as i can, then Linux.

Good job MS! And with a nice NSA backdoor, they will be able to big brotherise thousand of users directly in a central server, how wonderful!

 

[Autopia]

Same here... I will stay with Windows 7 for as long as i can, then Linux.

Good job MS! And with a nice NSA backdoor, they will be able to big brotherise thousand of users directly in a central server, how wonderful!

people that RDP into a server to do work now complain about things being slow, I can't imagine how it will be when micro$oft will do this. i've seen people complain about 365 not working correct now we are going to change everything so that it is on the cloud. it is going to suck. IF facebook can read everything you write can you imagine what this will be like? freaken A. not for me!

 

[Faethon]

people that RDP into a server to do work now complain about things being slow, I can't imagine how it will be when micro$oft will do this. i've seen people complain about 365 not working correct now we are going to change everything so that it is on the cloud. it is going to suck. IF facebook can read everything you write can you imagine what this will be like? freaken A. not for me!

People will do anything, if you give them an incentive, a bit of "cheese" if you like, just like you do with a mouse you want to lure to a trap. Don't worry, it will happen and people will be cheering about it. MS, correctly used Skydrive to make people "get used to the idea". Once the idea passes in you and you get "used to it", it's done. Facebook, is another such thing. If you were to say to someone "i want to make a whole profile of you and keep it in a database", he would refuse and feel spied upon. But, if you do the same, while providing him with a "service" he likes, he will happily do it.

Don't worry, MS will find a way to do it and people will feel MS is making them a favour and giving them a great feature.

I don't use Facebook, twitter or other of this so called social media. There is nothing "social" in having virtual "likes" or spending your free time with virtual friends instead of people, trying to show off or i don't know what. I only have a fake facebook account that i have only used once to access a support employee of a company that gave me no other choice and that's it.

I am already in a consolidation phase as far as my computer hardware goes. I am planning to keep several rigs for a long time, i am already getting "spare parts", it only means i will go further and buy also spare HDDs, monitors, printers, so that i won't have any problem with future drivers of new hardware that doesn't support Win7 anymore and so i will at least have a small group of rigs that even many years from now will be functional for basic operations and it's time to find a Linux Mint CD that i have somewhere to get a bit more practice with it.

 

[B00nie]

I went to this office one day and had to send an e-mail from the clients computer. They had the latest Outlook installed. When I typed, each letter appeared with almost half second delay. The client didn't seem to notice anything special while I was gnawing my liver off quietly inside.

So yeah, common users put up with ALL sorts of shit.

 

[Entilza]

People will do anything, if you give them an incentive, a bit of "cheese" if you like, just like you do with a mouse you want to lure to a trap. Don't worry, it will happen and people will be cheering about it. MS, correctly used Skydrive to make people "get used to the idea". Once the idea passes in you and you get "used to it", it's done. Facebook, is another such thing. If you were to say to someone "i want to make a whole profile of you and keep it in a database", he would refuse and feel spied upon. But, if you do the same, while providing him with a "service" he likes, he will happily do it.

Don't worry, MS will find a way to do it and people will feel MS is making them a favour and giving them a great feature.

I don't use Facebook, twitter or other of this so called social media. There is nothing "social" in having virtual "likes" or spending your free time with virtual friends instead of people, trying to show off or i don't know what. I only have a fake facebook account that i have only used once to access a support employee of a company that gave me no other choice and that's it.

I am already in a consolidation phase as far as my computer hardware goes. I am planning to keep several rigs for a long time, i am already getting "spare parts", it only means i will go further and buy also spare HDDs, monitors, printers, so that i won't have any problem with future drivers of new hardware that doesn't support Win7 anymore and so i will at least have a small group of rigs that even many years from now will be functional for basic operations and it's time to find a Linux Mint CD that i have somewhere to get a bit more practice with it.

It's strange but understandable that a mindset like this has begun. Having to 'stock up' on computer supplies sounds like preparation for the apocalypse of the virtual world.

 

[Skripka]

"Free" probably meaning "loaded with ads".

Nothing with any value is "free" from a business....apart from corporate branded box pens

 

[Faethon]

It's strange but understandable that a mindset like this has begun. Having to 'stock up' on computer supplies sounds like preparation for the apocalypse of the virtual world.

I always try to keep a spare part for everything in a main computer. I am terribly annoyed having something "burnt" (fail) after some years and have to find something in the used market, that i don't trust. Plus, here, even the used market is much smaller than in USA, so if you try to find an older motherboard that's no longer on sale, you 're going to pay it higher than someone in USA would.

By chance i 've ended up with several AMD parts, all cross-compatible, so at this point, why not make sure that say at least 2 rigs will be able to run "for a long, long time"... I use cheap components in general. Besides, if you see how many ancient computers are still around or how some Linux distros run excellent on archaic hardware requirements, it's not a bad idea.

Besides, when i was 20, i had plenty of time and enthusiasm and didn't mind formatting every day or 2 days, just to change some programs and have the registry perfectly garbage-free. Now i m' past 30s, i am getting more easily tired, i don't even have an urge to change Windows. I 've put a LOT of effort to find the PERFECT drivers combination for my rigs, all run now BSOD-free and i can solve pretty much any problem. I can format and reistall Win7 with the fine-tuning i like very quickly. The IDEA alone of having to do everything from scratch for a new Windows, is depressing me.

You know, like the people who still hang on to WinXP. Well, given the hardware they have, i understand them. I m glad i passed to Win7, but i now feel that i will become like them in the near future. You just arrive to a point, where you stop finding enjoyable breaking and fixing the PC, but just using it without any trouble arising, ever.

MS may want to put everything to cloud, why not, i understand. Antiviruses started the clouds, people said "nice". Adobe went to cloud, people already had heard of it. Office goes to cloud, drive space goes to cloud. It's only natural that at the end, everything will go to cloud. When it does, i will either be happily dead or happily ready. I will be "retro-computing" on my Athlon/Phenom/FX rigs down on earth, while all of you will be flying in the clouds. I like earth and i will be still able to go to clouds if i want to.

Moreover, i 've been since my teen years a perfectionist, tinkering my OS, using Nlite and similar, as well as following security fora. I 've tinkered with virtually every firewall and antivirus, virtualization and HIPS program that has ran under Windows XP. There is NO way in hell, that i will change now and permit myself to become hostage of some remote server in Redmond to run the OS for me and lose control.

 

[Tsumi]

I always try to keep a spare part for everything in a main computer. I am terribly annoyed having something "burnt" (fail) after some years and have to find something in the used market, that i don't trust. Plus, here, even the used market is much smaller than in USA, so if you try to find an older motherboard that's no longer on sale, you 're going to pay it higher than someone in USA would.

By chance i 've ended up with several AMD parts, all cross-compatible, so at this point, why not make sure that say at least 2 rigs will be able to run "for a long, long time"... I use cheap components in general. Besides, if you see how many ancient computers are still around or how some Linux distros run excellent on archaic hardware requirements, it's not a bad idea.

Besides, when i was 20, i had plenty of time and enthusiasm and didn't mind formatting every day or 2 days, just to change some programs and have the registry perfectly garbage-free. Now i m' past 30s, i am getting more easily tired, i don't even have an urge to change Windows. I 've put a LOT of effort to find the PERFECT drivers combination for my rigs, all run now BSOD-free and i can solve pretty much any problem. I can format and reistall Win7 with the fine-tuning i like very quickly. The IDEA alone of having to do everything from scratch for a new Windows, is depressing me.

You know, like the people who still hang on to WinXP. Well, given the hardware they have, i understand them. I m glad i passed to Win7, but i now feel that i will become like them in the near future. You just arrive to a point, where you stop finding enjoyable breaking and fixing the PC, but just using it without any trouble arising, ever.

MS may want to put everything to cloud, why not, i understand. Antiviruses started the clouds, people said "nice". Adobe went to cloud, people already had heard of it. Office goes to cloud, drive space goes to cloud. It's only natural that at the end, everything will go to cloud. When it does, i will either be happily dead or happily ready. I will be "retro-computing" on my Athlon/Phenom/FX rigs down on earth, while all of you will be flying in the clouds. I like earth and i will be still able to go to clouds if i want to.

Moreover, i 've been since my teen years a perfectionist, tinkering my OS, using Nlite and similar, as well as following security fora. I 've tinkered with virtually every firewall and antivirus, virtualization and HIPS program that has ran under Windows XP. There is NO way in hell, that i will change now and permit myself to become hostage of some remote server in Redmond to run the OS for me and lose control.

I think you're just overreacting to some rumors.

 

[Faethon]

I think you're just overreacting to some rumors.

It will eventually happen. When Adobe declared that they go all cloud, MS gave a public advice to Adobe, saying "it's not the right time YET, to go exclusively cloud". First you go partially. When people are used to it, you will go further.

EDIT: Oh, here it is, i found it:

Microsoft to Adobe: It's too early to dump stand-alone software

However, unlike Adobe, we think people's shift from packaged software to subscription services will take time. Within a decade, we think everyone will choose to subscribe because the benefits are undeniable. In the meantime, we are committed to offering choice--premier software sold as a package and powerful services sold as a subscription.

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-to-adobe-its-too-early-to-dump-stand-alone-software

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. Even the inclusion of Skydrive for "free" (is there such a thing?), in reality is just a way to get people "used" to idea of "cloud". Time will come that MS will come to harvest this investment it made by giving something for "free".

 

[Entilza]

Take your example but lets go back to Windows 95. Pretend we are here now and you did what you did with Windows 95. It's easy to say the software back then is dated and no one uses it anymore fine, but in 20 years they will be saying the same thing..

If you are offline then yes all your existing apps should work just as before.. But let's talk online, none of the modern browsers would be compatible with your older windows 95, USB didn't exist back then, no new apps would be compatible with your os anymore.

I realize computers have somewhat stabilized and are way more powerful than back then, perhaps we are reaching a peak and the progress will slow even further.

Anyway it's an interesting idea, however I only see it feasible if you are planning an offline non-upgradable future path. Ie: You may want to get all the software as well now that you think you may need later otherwise you may not find it anymore but no one knows what they may be interested in the future.

 

[octoberasian]

The one question we have to ask ourselves: Are companies that greedy to stifle choice and competition?

You have to think like a multi-billion dollar company here with millions of customers.

Look at what happened with "net neutrality" and the FCC. Or, even better, the mergers of big companies into larger ones like Comcast and Time Warner.

The less consumers have a choice in what they can and cannot buy or do, the more likely there is only one product or service available to them. Once that happens, it becomes the only choice and the best way for any company to manipulate and extract money from.

So, if Microsoft indeed does offer a free cloud-based version of Windows 9, for example, alongside a standalone Windows 9 OS, then there will likely be a subscription plan with expanded features that sit between the two products. Think of it as a "test the waters" kind of thing.

Ask yourself which makes more money: A subscription-based plan over time or a single license/product bought and paid one time?

If you say the latter over the former, I'd say you are wrong.

Even looking at Microsoft's quarter fiscal reports even showed Office365 gaining traction over "Consumer Office" (offline version). Xbox Live revenue and subscriptions are going up, not down.

x86 desktop PC sales are down alongside with Windows 8. Windows 8 has not seen the same growth and adoption rate as Windows 7 and Windows XP before it. The numbers don't lie.

So, what do you do as a multi-billion dollar company if you want to continue to make money in the long term, not short term?

You think of a way to extract money from a consumer over a certain period of time that maintains your profitability and bottom line in the long term. Subscription-based plans have been doing just that. You pay more for your cellphone over X-amount of years that ends up costing more than the phone itself if it is subsidized by a carrier. The same with cars and your monthly payments to the bank handling your loans can be considered some kind of quasi-subscription plan. The bank technically owns it until you pay it off, and they will have made nearly twice the amount in interest than the original cost of the car.

Think like a business that wants to maintain its own relevance and insure it maintains a steady revenue stream and you can see why Microsoft wants to go in this direction eventually.

I may not like the idea and will not agree to it because it's pretty much the equivalent of just renting an apartment versus owning a house. I'd rather own what I purchase. That's my choice as a consumer, and that is going to be a dying trend in the years to come, I guarantee it.

 

[XOR != OR]

"Free" probably meaning "loaded with ads".

Nothing with any value is "free" from a business....apart from corporate branded box pens

"If you didn't pay for it, you are the product".

 

[shade91]

"Free" probably meaning "loaded with ads".

Nothing with any value is "free" from a business....apart from corporate branded box pens

The standard business model for "free" usually has to do with selling your information and ad space. There's absolutely no other way to monetize such a model.

 

[octoberasian]

The standard business model for "free" usually has to do with selling your information and ad space. There's absolutely no other way to monetize such a model.

Yeah, and didn't Microsoft announce some time ago to introduce ads in their Windows Store apps or something similar?

I do remember reading something about it. That's one way to give us a "free" Windows OS, but I guarantee the free Windows is going to be gimped for the normal user like how Basic and Starter were for Windows 7.

 

[SuperSubZero]

It will eventually happen.

EDIT: Oh, here it is, i found it:

Microsoft to Adobe: It's too early to dump stand-alone software

Please tell the entire forum the number of times "Windows" is mentioned in that article.

(hint: it's zero)

I like the idea of Office 365, MS was with me up until the "it keeps working until you stop paying, then it stops working." Of course Office is kind of one of those things that once you buy it and start using it, unless you switch to OpenOffice or whatever you're gonna be using it pretty much forever. MS basically locks you in to an upgrade cycle (since Office 365 will presumably auto-update to the next Office 20XX). If you're buying Office every new version anyway then the experience is no different except you're not dropping hundreds of dollars in a shot, and you get more licensed installs.

They also have very aggressive student pricing and other segments that make the 365 subscription attractive. Office 365 for University is $80 for four years: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-office-365-university-FX102918415.aspx

Given MS's upgrade cycle, you are virtually guaranteed a version upgrade during that four years, as part of the cost.

 

[Faethon]

Take your example but lets go back to Windows 95. Pretend we are here now and you did what you did with Windows 95. It's easy to say the software back then is dated and no one uses it anymore fine, but in 20 years they will be saying the same thing..

If you are offline then yes all your existing apps should work just as before.. But let's talk online, none of the modern browsers would be compatible with your older windows 95, USB didn't exist back then, no new apps would be compatible with your os anymore.

I realize computers have somewhat stabilized and are way more powerful than back then, perhaps we are reaching a peak and the progress will slow even further.

Anyway it's an interesting idea, however I only see it feasible if you are planning an offline non-upgradable future path. Ie: You may want to get all the software as well now that you think you may need later otherwise you may not find it anymore but no one knows what they may be interested in the future.

I agree with what you say. But, you said it yourself. Computers don't get obsolete they way they used to. They are overpowered for some trivial basic stuff. Here, you can easily still find Win98 running on computers in public entities for example. Simply the state doesn't have money to throw on hardware all the time, like probably happens in USA. Although most is XP era now. And nothing prohibits you to have a "modern" rig and and "old" rigs, for different stuff. Even offline isn't bad. You don't need to be online to do much stuff. Say you want to write a document, you don't need "updated" or online program.

I still have a DVD with XP-compatible programs. I am organized like that by nature. Having more choices is good. Data transfer, like the USB you mention, can be more of a problem, but nowdays there are a gazillion of adapters for older standards. I don't expect that everyone will disappear. My motherboard has USB 2,3, SATA, eSATA. What the heck, if anything fails to be able to transfer data, i will use it as isolated station. But consider, that you can still transfer music from tape to PC nowdays. How many years after the appearance of CDs as music medium... If i fail, patience, at least i have tried...

Please tell the entire forum the number of times "Windows" is mentioned in that article.

(hint: it's zero)

I like the idea of Office 365, MS was with me up until the "it keeps working until you stop paying, then it stops working." Of course Office is kind of one of those things that once you buy it and start using it, unless you switch to OpenOffice or whatever you're gonna be using it pretty much forever. MS basically locks you in to an upgrade cycle (since Office 365 will presumably auto-update to the next Office 20XX). If you're buying Office every new version anyway then the experience is no different except you're not dropping hundreds of dollars in a shot, and you get more licensed installs.

They also have very aggressive student pricing and other segments that make the 365 subscription attractive. Office 365 for University is $80 for four years: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/mi...102918415.aspx

Given MS's upgrade cycle, you are virtually guaranteed a version upgrade during that four years, as part of the cost.

Dear SuperSubZero, i don't need to "prove" or show anything. You are free to believe whatever you like. I have been seeing this classic post ever since i 've been around computers. MS IMHO wants to change business model and has also the monopoly to do it. If you think she will stay in Office, it's your right to do so. I think that indeed, MS does it gently. It makes it so disadvantageous to buy the standalone, that is in practice pushing towards subscription. I think eventually will come to Windows too. Why wouldn't she? Because she is afraid of the huge competition by Linux? For such cases, i have always done this: I have a long memory. I have bookmarked the topic. If it happens and the forum is still here and we 're still here, i will make a necro-post and salute you. I 've done it many times before in other fora and it's always a fun thing to do. Last time i did it in an italian forum where some early Win8 adopters were prophetizing its huge success and snearing as "fossils" those that didn't like it. Metro was the best thing ever. The start button was "so old and a blessing it's gone". When i necroposted to ask them where is the success and necroposted for 2nd time to ask them why is MS putting back the start button and mitigate Metro function if the original was so better like they were initially saying, i don't know why, none wanted to post back in that old topic. The little satisfactions you get in a forum...

Another all time favourite, was when MS invented "online activation" with XP. I hated it at the time. There were the usual "optimistic" folks that said the classic "why don't you like it, are you a pirate" and "just because MS did it, doesn't mean it will become widespread, besides, it's just one click away". Then, at some point, one had formatted too many times and he posted bitching about having to call Microsoft. As activation became more widespread, another had trouble activating with servers or DNS connectivity. Oh, the fun i had with them... Sweet memories...

For Windows, i can almost see the selling campaing:

"Microsfot proudly presents Windows Sky1! Are you bad with computers? Are you tired of BSODs? You don't know what "update drivers" means? Are you afraid of virus? Microsoft has now the answer for you! Windows Sky1, offers you a great variety of functionalities on the cloud, including running the core of your OS with us! Let US take the weight off your shoulders for you! You will not have to worry anymore about maintenance and your system will be always malware free and in perfect sync with any mobile devices you have! Choose how much cloud functionality you want, according to your PC expertese! But we reccommend the "full cloud" pack, at the best price".

Enthusiastic users will be thanking God for having gifted Microsoft to humanity, they will be listing the advantages of the new OS, etc. Early adopters will cheer "wow, perfect sync with my smart phone and i can upload my photos in real time to my Skydrive!".

 

[Faethon]

Besides, transferring at least some of the core functionality to cloud, would the best anti-piracy measure MS could ever get. The current "activation" is there only the bother the paying customers. Once upon a time, computers weren't so widespread, so MS didn't bothered so much to be pirated and computers were doubling their processing power very quickly, which was never enough. People wanted to get the new machine all the time and the new Windows, in hope "they don't crash as often".

Things now have changed. Computers are overpowered. Users don't seem to want to abbandon XP, because, it's quite stable and fast. The userbase of computer users has widened a lot. Nowdays, every house has at least one. So, it's a good time for Microsoft, to think "well, time to mind more piracy and since they don't upgrade machines or buy Windows so often, maybe a subscription model is more profitable for us. Subscription gives PREDICTABLE flow of money to a business. There's nothing better than this. Once they get you on that model, you are good for life for Microsoft. You want to keep running your ancient machine with your subscription based Windows OS of 10 years ago! Fine! You keep paying your subscription and fossilize your heart out! While, now, MS gets NOTHING from the fossils that run WinXP. Subscription is every business' dream model. But Microsoft is wise enough, to know that this needs a smooth transition. "Easy does it", don't you say it in USA? Make yourself comfortable with Office 360 first. Get to know the cloud and the idea. Once you are, MS will make a very "good" offer economically speaking for OS too.

 

[SuperSubZero]

Besides, transferring at least some of the core functionality to cloud, would the best anti-piracy measure MS could ever get. The current "activation" is there only the bother the paying customers.

The current activation doesn't bother me (a paying customer). My usage scenario doesn't involve frequent reinstalls though so maybe I'm special or something.

Things now have changed. Computers are overpowered. Users don't seem to want to abbandon XP, because, it's quite stable and fast.

I'd offer that Windows 8.1 on a 4770K-based rig is going to be a little faster overall than a 2004 Prescott P4 running XP. Also, I'm not sure who isn't abandoning XP that can.. Steam Survey says: Windows XP 32 bit 5.63%. Users that *can* get rid of XP mostly have. The subsection of market that is tied to XP (can't get rid of it) are there and there's not much you can do except "well, at least your vertical device that only runs on XP is.. still running?" Note also "can't" applies to ignorance also; grandma can't upgrade if she doesn't know she can, and she may not even grasp that concept, and hey, all she wants to do is look at emails from the grandkids so maybe XP with Outlook Express is all she needs. Grandma watched TV on a big wooden piece of furniture with a very curved tube in it for 50 years. She may not need the latest and greatest computer or OS.

So, it's a good time for Microsoft, to think "well, time to mind more piracy and since they don't upgrade machines or buy Windows so often, maybe a subscription model is more profitable for us. Subscription gives PREDICTABLE flow of money to a business. There's nothing better than this.

The mechanics and legalities of what to do when someone stops paying are less clear with an OS than with Office. A lot of piracy with Windows now exists because MS can't turn the screws they'd like to turn. If they fire a silver bullet at all the pirated copies and break them, they risk (a) inadvertently disabling a machine they shouldn't, and (b) the backlash in the media. A subscription model with Windows where you invoke a penalty on a non-paying customer is a recipe for disaster.

As well, you can't reliably put someone on a subscription model where you *guarantee* upgrades when you don't know the PC involved. Can that PC handle the next version? Do we know? Can *every* PC subscribed handle it? Is the driver support there? We don't know. Office is far less guesswork. There's less drivers to deal with (just printers) and the requirements haven't significantly changed in years.

MS didn't do this master plan any good with this cheap Win8 and now free Win8.1 upgrade. How do they sell a monthly subscription when they just virtually gave away two versions? Heck, even next-to-free nobody will argue the adoption rate has been less than fantastic. They can't give it away, how are they gonna charge a fee for it?

 

[Faethon]

The current activation doesn't bother me (a paying customer). My usage scenario doesn't involve frequent reinstalls though so maybe I'm special or something.

You 're right, there is a minority that is reinstalling a lot and at that points, it becomes annoying to them. One thing is certain, that the activation didn't annoy any pirate, ever.

I'd offer that Windows 8.1 on a 4770K-based rig is going to be a little faster overall than a 2004 Prescott P4 running XP. Also, I'm not sure who isn't abandoning XP that can.. Steam Survey says: Windows XP 32 bit 5.63%. Users that *can* get rid of XP mostly have. The subsection of market that is tied to XP (can't get rid of it) are there and there's not much you can do except "well, at least your vertical device that only runs on XP is.. still running?" Note also "can't" applies to ignorance also; grandma can't upgrade if she doesn't know she can, and she may not even grasp that concept, and hey, all she wants to do is look at emails from the grandkids so maybe XP with Outlook Express is all she needs. Grandma watched TV on a big wooden piece of furniture with a very curved tube in it for 50 years. She may not need the latest and greatest computer or OS.

I don't disagree with your examples, but the problem is that not everyone wants to do high performance computing and doesn't want to give the money if he doesn't have to. Now, in the US, where i assume you live, you get these crazy rigs every 2 years or something, i see crazy money being spent. Here (Italy), things are a bit different. If you leave outside the enthusiasts, the big majority of people, only think to upgrade when "it doesn't work well anymore". And most people don't have neither the time nor the will to learn more about their computer or do something spectacular with it. I have 3 relatives who are all 3 lawyers. In total they run 5 computers in office. It's a slugfest between Pentiums 1.8-2Ghz 512-1GB RAM-WinXP. The most modern is the one my brother runs, only because i forced him to upgrade recently. So he now runs Athlon 5050e-4GB-Win7. You can't imagine the resistance to the upgrade. He threatened me that if his "Office archive" is deleted or damaged, he will kill me. Before that, my brother was merilly using a socket 754 Sempron, that i forced upon him. My other 2 relatives, continue merrily. If you tell them that they run dinosaurs, the reply is one: "What's wrong with it? I can do my job fine". Office and internet. This is what they do. The other day i was reading, 70% of chinese computers run XP and that the chinese goverment said that it will stay with XP and chinese companies are working to extend support on their own. The same situation with ancient machines exists here more or less everywhere. If the PC keeps performing the job it was meant to do, they keep it. Period. What people here like spending their money on, is smart phones, not computers. The same goes for computers in public entities. If the old computer is able to do its work, it stays there. The only upgrade they see is flat monitor, to save space. A friend of mine is high school professor is a mountain small town. He has a 2007 laptop (Intel CoreDuo 1,86Ghz). He is "fine" with it. Up until last year, he was running a desktop with a Barton 2500+. I was begging him to upgrade him to an Athlon X2 3800+ for 2 years. Finally i convinced him last year to do it, only because his CRT monitor was burnt and the 19" 900p monitor he got, was giving him problems in youtube with HD video. So now he runs Athlon 3800+ X2 and feels "blazing fast". "With this i can stay for at least 10 years" he told me. He doesn't throw away the Barton nor does he want to sell it. He says "well, if we let aside youtube, i could perfectly do what i wanted with it, so why throw it away, i may think of a use for it".

The mechanics and legalities of what to do when someone stops paying are less clear with an OS than with Office. A lot of piracy with Windows now exists because MS can't turn the screws they'd like to turn. If they fire a silver bullet at all the pirated copies and break them, they risk (a) inadvertently disabling a machine they shouldn't, and (b) the backlash in the media. A subscription model with Windows where you invoke a penalty on a non-paying customer is a recipe for disaster.

As well, you can't reliably put someone on a subscription model where you *guarantee* upgrades when you don't know the PC involved. Can that PC handle the next version? Do we know? Can *every* PC subscribed handle it? Is the driver support there? We don't know. Office is far less guesswork. There's less drivers to deal with (just printers) and the requirements haven't significantly changed in years.

MS didn't do this master plan any good with this cheap Win8 and now free Win8.1 upgrade. How do they sell a monthly subscription when they just virtually gave away two versions? Heck, even next-to-free nobody will argue the adoption rate has been less than fantastic. They can't give it away, how are they gonna charge a fee for it?

I am not pretending to know how it may be done, but know this enough. If MS wanted, knowing what a PC can handle or not, is a minor issue. Just give MS access ingoing or have a component report back your hardware config and they will know what the machine can handle and what not. Which is a piece of cake nowdays. It's like having WEI report back the results. Subscription may not be monthly. Nor can a forced upgrade be the rule. You may very well have a subscribed Windows, that when the new upgrade comes, can assess your hardware performance and driver availability and inform you on how well it could run on the new OS and ask you if you want to upgrade or keep your subscription with your "old" OS. You don't need to guarantee upgrades. But you can guarantee a patched system for example. And when time for upgrade comes, you can give an informed choice. "Dear user, your GPU HD5450 scores 2.9 and will likely be slow on our new WindowsSky2, do you still want to update?"

Win8 is burnt brandname now. MS can throw 10 packs on it, fact is, it won't sell. It's a matter of bad reputation. Sure, they won't get many subscriptions for it. But, i am pretty sure at some point they will start doing it. I don't know if it will be 9, 10, 11 or 12, but i will be surprised if they don't find a way. For me, this is the silver bullet against pirates. If you have some functionality that needs a subscription and otherwise you remain with a crippled OS, a bit like the "starter" editions, it will be good. After all, it's not like those who don't or can't pay, can easily mass migrate to Linux. Linux is always a headache for many reasons. You need to learn a lot of new ropes that most people aren't willing to.

Anyway, time will tell...

 

[Autopia]

we could use the gaming industry as an example, they moved everything to their servers, now most games have to be downloaded, all because they can, "control" who cheats and who doesn't has that helped in gaming? no look at battlefield 4, i stopped buying new game the day they come out, this gives me time to find out whats wrong with it. not to mention for a game you pay $60.00 for it, then a month price for the cool crap. and everyone does it cause they don't want to be left behind. same thing will happen here.

if your desktop is on the cloud and the anti virus is controlled by M$ does that prevent virus, NO I have been in a law office, "we maintain their servers and workstations" someone got a virus and brought the law office to a halt.

as for upgrading to the new office every time a new one comes out, in the real world that doesn't happen most companies wait until the m$ office they are using is obsolete then upgrade, i think we will be using open office when support for office 2010 ends.

this is about control if you are on the cloud how much control do you have? your stuck waiting on the phone for someone to help you. no thank you, i would rather have control over my stuff. after all I'm purchasing it. my money.

 

[wonderfield]

I'd probably use it. I'm using Xubuntu on one of my machines — partially because I feel like a Linux machine is a useful thing to have around — but primarily because a ~$100 Windows license for a machine I built for around $340 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If they can make something that's both free of any upfront costs and compelling, fine. I'm not going to have a conspiracy theorist, privacy-hoarding panic attack because I see the word 'cloud'.

 

[octoberasian]

I'd probably use it. I'm using Xubuntu on one of my machines — partially because I feel like a Linux machine is a useful thing to have around — but primarily because a ~$100 Windows license for a machine I built for around $340 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If they can make something that's both free of any upfront costs and compelling, fine. I'm not going to have a conspiracy theorist, privacy-hoarding panic attack because I see the word 'cloud'.

So long as they continue to offer a standalone version of the next version or future version of Windows alongside a free cloud-based and subscription-based cloud version of Windows, I'll be alright for it. I'd rather have choice and the fact that I own the product, not renting it. Consumer choice is going to be a rare trait in the future if companies continue to offer little to no choice at all, or we'll be back to the monopolies of the late 19th. and early 20th. century in the US.

A free Windows would be great for that spare computer you have or cheap laptop. My biggest issue with Windows is the price of the product. When you're budgeting out a $500 to $600 PC, as much as $200 of that budget might go towards Windows 8.1. Pro (non-OEM, non-student discounted) OS. When a friend asks me to help them price out parts for a new computer, I always ask if they have a spare Windows OS installation disc. Almost always they tell me "No", and I ask their budget with shipping included, and immediately a red flag raises above my head-- You can't budget out a $600 gaming computer with Windows included with the parts you want, unless you drop the video card or processor or motherboard to a lower model version.

I wish Microsoft would lower the price of Windows. Something along the lines of:

• Non-pro - $50
• Pro - $75
• Server (small business) - $200
• Upgrade - $35

That's an example, but if priced something that low and it'd be easier to budget out a computer for someone.

If the free version of Windows 9, for example, isn't terribly handicapped and still offers at bare minimum access to Windows Services and Disk Management with basic administration tools (don't need all of the bells and whistles), and no RDP (I can use Teamviewer), I wouldn't mind suggesting that to friends that ask me to help them with a new computer as an alternative to a higher priced full version of Windows.

 

[SuperSubZero]

Now, in the US, where i assume you live, you get these crazy rigs every 2 years or something, i see crazy money being spent. Here (Italy), things are a bit different.

FX-6300 - Gigabyte 970 UD3P - HIS 6570 Silence - 8GB Corsair 1600Mhz - Scythe Rasetsu - Enermax Luxuray

If you leave outside the enthusiasts, the big majority of people, only think to upgrade when "it doesn't work well anymore". And most people don't have neither the time nor the will to learn more about their computer or do something spectacular with it.

I know here in the US the streets are paved with gold, and we light our expensive illegally imported cuban cigars with rolled up $100 bills while driving one of our several luxury 8 mile-per-gallon Italian sport utility vehicles, but.. no. Much like McDonalds and Walmart, we have *access* to much larger quantities of computer stuff, and with that quantity comes economy of scale so we get it cheaper, but the FX-6300 you have, which Amazon.it has for 98 euros, is not substantially cheaper here, ~10 euros less give or take. We don't get them handed to us free with our 4x cheeseburgers and ultra-large french fries and 55 gallon tub o' Coke. We have a "crappy low-end" computing market, and it's still selling enough computers to justify doing it.

 

[Faethon]

I know here in the US the streets are paved with gold, and we light our expensive illegally imported cuban cigars with rolled up $100 bills while driving one of our several luxury 8 mile-per-gallon Italian sport utility vehicles, but.. no. Much like McDonalds and Walmart, we have *access* to much larger quantities of computer stuff, and with that quantity comes economy of scale so we get it cheaper, but the FX-6300 you have, which Amazon.it has for 98 euros, is not substantially cheaper here, ~10 euros less give or take. We don't get them handed to us free with our 4x cheeseburgers and ultra-large french fries and 55 gallon tub o' Coke. We have a "crappy low-end" computing market, and it's still selling enough computers to justify doing it.

When you tell me:

I'd offer that Windows 8.1 on a 4770K-based rig is going to be a little faster overall than a 2004 Prescott P4 running XP. Also, I'm not sure who isn't abandoning XP that can.. Steam Survey says: Windows XP 32 bit 5.63%. Users that *can* get rid of XP mostly have.

What do you expect me to say? That the world isn't made by steam users? That ordinary men don't even know what a 4770K is? That people simply don't care? I assure you, all my 3 lawyer relatives, CAN afford to buy new computer. They don't because they have different mentality and aren't Steam users. You won't find them in Steam statistics. My brother when i told him that i would change XP went ballistics at first. Even when i installed him Win7, i had to calm him down and show him that it wasn't that different, because the first thing he said when he saw it, was "this isn't like XP! I have to learn everything from scratch? Why didn't you leave XP alone?".

Or you think he cared much because now Office launches faster. He simply said "yes, it's faster, but at the end, all want is type".

My signature is irrelevant. I am not the typical user, i grew up with computers. My brother is the typical user. If you ask him what CPU he is running, he doesn't know. He may tell you "it's new, my brother installed it just recently".

Amazon in USA may have more or less the same prices, but you have a) no VAT, b) Newegg has always discounts (never here) , c) Microcenter has even better deals, d) you have higher available income to spend.

In american fora it's always "get the best". In italian is "get this which is best price-performance". You go to american fora "get the FX-8350, it's better binned!". In Italian they tell you "get the FX-6300 or if you want 8-core, get the FX-8320 and overclock it". This amongst enthusiasts. Now imagine the rest. Here people always liked cell phones. Computers? Not particularly. We make a good portion of those who are "stuck with XP". The closest internet cafe to my house that i happened to visit, still runs XP on all machines.

My work, is a mixed place with a specific university faculty. XP is everywhere. Some computers that need to do some crucial work that can make the speed count, have more recent hardware, let's say 2005-2007 era, but most of the machines are just databases more or less and are a mix of slow machines, happily running XP. There is some modern rig, in some office where some enthusiast resides and has taken personal care of it often by his own pocket, but it's the exception. You know, we still run the classic "white" cabinets that have turned beige over the years. And imagine, that it's a piece of cake to obtain free Winodws academic licenses, since we coexist with the university. But the base system remains XP. I was given some academic Win8 licences for free too and never used them yet... I keep them "just in case". But at least i use Win7.

It's a sort of mentality like the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Plus, they always think "do we really spend the money on this or can we still do our job and better postpone?". Here it's like this more or less in everything apart gamers. These don't show up in Steam, but they they are the majority of computers that run in the country.

 

[Faethon]

This is also telling:

http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-d...065-household-saving-rates.html#axzz30DCLwSNC

Italy has been running x2-x4 the saving rates of USA up to 2010. Lately not, because the taxes for the crisis have been raised even more, so families don't have money to put to bank. In the mid 90s, Italy had the biggest saving rate in the world. I still remember the day where in the evening news they said that Japan surpassed Italy... Then with the euro, everyone started saving less...If you notice, in many european countries, the saving rate is always double the one in USA. This because the american model is very geared towards consumption. While, for example, in Italy, the savings serve to fuel the economy through the banks-loans. Current italian debt for example is at 132% of GDP (sigh). The reason why it hasn't exploded already on our face, is because most of it, is internal. It is towards italian banks. The bad news, is that if it were to explode, it would mean that not foreigners, but Italians would be the ones mainly to lose their money. Bank account goes "puff!" and your money is gone...

But it shows the mentality. Why the Italian thinks twice before buying new. He wants to put the money in the bank. :It's tradition.