Rumor: BioWare “Prototyping” Knights of the Old Republic Reboot

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Kinsaras

    Kinsaras 2[H]4U

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    This meatbag would be very happy to play KOTOR re-mastered.
     
  2. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    DA:O was built over many years, before EA. Probably the best one.

    DA:2 was crappy EA rush job.

    DA:I Haven't played.
     
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  3. Pandur

    Pandur Limp Gawd

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    Such a shame there's not a single person left at Bioware that would recognise a good game if it came up to them and punched them in the face!

    Oh and what happened to the: "SW:TOR is KotoR 3-7+ so stop asking for more" mantra?

    ME:A killed any remaining hope I had for Bioware, sadly. Just throw her on the heap with Origin and company. It's time to move on.
     
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  4. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    What's the point of posting on a forum if you don't even want to discuss the topic at hand just lash out like a snake when someone calls you out on your bullshit. Have fun trolling someone else then.
     
  5. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Don't waste your time on Trolls. I already added him to my ignore list. Anyone who joins just to Troll on his first posts is not worth hearing from again, and they new ignore filter is very powerful, so you wont.
     
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  6. jedijeb13

    jedijeb13 Limp Gawd

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    I would at least give it a try if they do make it. But then, I am currently playing Star Wars Galaxies preCU Emulator. Never even tried SWTOR since what I saw of it was just a very poor next step from SWG. Lucas Arts also broke with SOE at that time and killed off SWG so it wouldn't compete with SWTOR because they knew it would never live up to the original Star Wars MMORPG. Mostly now I am just waiting for the SWG Emu to get around to adding in the Jump to Lightspeed space portion of the game, since it was on par with Xwing and its iterations.
     
  7. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    EA doing what EA does best, making shit out of Gold.
     
  8. Riouken

    Riouken Limp Gawd

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    Yep, SWTOR would have been great if EA would have left them alone and let them finish the game like the first 20 levels. But it was behind schedule and EA made them rush it out. By the time bioware recovered the game, it was already FTP and interest had been lost.

    The first 20 levels were amazing, story driven adventures that felt like you were part of the Star Wars universe. Levels 20+ were stupid repetitive grind quests with mostly just the words changed. Different planet but same quest as the last one with just different names of the person/beast you had to kill 50 of.

    I was in the early closed beta, and they only let us play past level 20 I think two weekends. There were tons of threads about 20+ not being as good as 1-20. But they would not listen and released it anyways.
     
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  9. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    That's pretty cool and I'll check it out if it ever sees the light of day. I bought a bundle deal so I have legit Xwing and TF.

    I just wish Lucasarts / EA would/could see the potential in a remaster... I don't understand what the problem is, it can't be that hard.
     
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  10. 4saken

    4saken [H]ardForum Junkie

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    yeah DA2 was shit. DA:I is taking it back to the quality DA:O was.
     
  11. MrBonk

    MrBonk Limp Gawd

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    As long as this isn't canon. I'm game.
     
  12. D4rkn3ss

    D4rkn3ss 2[H]4U

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    it will be all sjw retarded in tune with the current culture of ugliness? no thanks.
     
  13. GDI Lord

    GDI Lord Limp Gawd

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  14. Gawain The Blind

    Gawain The Blind n00b

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    Initial reaction: "Fuck yeah, a new KoTOR finally!"

    then: "Oh. Wait, its EA now. Meh."

    The best possible outcome is that it'll be a shallow, bland, rpg-lite with 6 different exclusive pre-order things and day one DLC. Collect UPC labels from MT DEW EXTREME *guitar riff* for extra "imperial credits" that you can use to purchase things from the RMT store. It'll be a forgettable 25-20 hour game with voice actors phoning it in, a serviceable but ultimately generic storyline, and a weird emphasis on open world vehicle travel. That's the best outcome.

    The worst outcome would be ME:A, Starwars edition.

    Hopefully this is the last time EA trots out the decaying corpse of what was once a great studio and makes it talk Weekend-at-Bernie's style trying to convince us that it's still great.



    Haha look how wrong you are. ME1 was the only good mass effect, dragon age 1 was alright, I guess. 2 was hastily made shit, and 3 was bland as bland can be. Every time they make a sequel to an existing property, they reduce the amount of options and choice for the sake of "streamlining." We lose skills, classes, races, equipment options, abilities, even party interaction. We gain "better combat" which I submit is debatable. I remember suddenly having to pick up ammo for my guns in ME2. I guess that counts as better combat? Or was it the chest high walls that suddenly appeared everywhere?

    If EA wants to do the right thing they'd let Bioware die. It already has in all but name. It's just making me sad now when I see the logo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  15. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Actually I liked DA2 more. It was an engaging 20 hours of combat fun, with a good story, I especially liked the time jumps. DA:I on the other hand is a 100 hour grind of fetch quest after fetch quest layered on top of yet more fetch quests. And it had that weird non-engaging combat.
    In fact DA:O is about the least favorite of mine from modern bioware games. Does that make me a bad person now?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  16. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ME2 is regarded as the best game in the Mass Effect franchise by almost everyone. You can have a different opinion than most. But there is no such thing as a wrong opinion. That's especially ironic coming from someone who is in a very fringe minority with his position.

    Yet there are less skills in ME2, that's about the only bad thing in it compared to ME1. Or do you also wish the copy paste maps back from ME1? People criticize DA2 for re-using maps, yet they are ready to ignore them in ME1, because it's not trendy to criticize ME1, but it's very trending to criticize DA2 because damn EA.
    And yes making the design choice of intorducing ammo and adding random cover to maps does help in making the combat more fun. Which was a very weak point in ME1. Even if it requires suspension of disbelief to get over it.

    People are so mean and selfish nowadays. Why does the mere existence of bioware bother you so much? You can ignore them, look for someone else for games if you don't like what they make. Them going out of business wouldn't help you one bit. But it would sure be sad to those liking their games.
     
  17. GDI Lord

    GDI Lord Limp Gawd

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    [Citation needed]

    Your opinion is different to mine.

    I think that this answers the question:
    I felt the same tinges of sadness in the last years that the C&C universe was still alive. I <3 Westwood Studios and was disappointed to see EA misuse such a great IP that they purchased.
     
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  18. 4saken

    4saken [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'd agree on ME2 regarded as the best.
     
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  19. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    I guess you are game for nothing new then? According to the team in charge of star wars story, EVERYTHING going forward is canon, even games. As backed by Kathleen Kennedy and Leeland Chee.
     
  20. LightsOut41

    LightsOut41 Limp Gawd

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    ME2 was the best of the series.
     
  21. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    There's a lot more to it though.

    There was a major issue with the design concept - I knew it was in trouble when they said "unlimited story!" As in a story going on forever and ever. Consider the development costs of doing that for 8 classes with 8 different stories? That was entirely on the original staff, and really, was the real poison pill which brought the whole thing down - EA got involved because Bioware was struggling to try to cash a check it's mouth wrote.

    What they should have done instead is have a planned beginning, middle, and end. Then rather than extending the story, go back and add more stories concurrent with the main ones at release to add depth to the time period, rather than extending it out. This not only would have fleshed out the time period and given depth to it, it would have also given people alternate story leveling paths if they got bored with the main story, and finally, would have allowed for those stories to be budgeted properly and accounted for, rather than the open budget they had for their content.

    The other major mistake was caving to the pressure of no microtransactions at the beginning. I know its an unpopular opinion, but the "freemium" model that SWTOR took from DDO is very successful, and frankly, it saved SWTOR and got new creation going again. The issue was, by that point, it was under EA completely and heading into an entirely different creative direction, which would have been fine had they been honest with their players about it, but they weren't - they were trying to do a sales job on their players rather than being up front about it, which is why people now equate their staff to snake oil salesmen. If they would have had microtransations as it is now from the beginning, then the original staff may still well be there, as it would have funded even their mistakes.

    I do disagree that it was "rushed" - that always seems to be the default go to for players on any game that doesn't live up to expectations. Rather, BioWare was "new" to MMOs and the original team admitted they didn't understand how quickly players can jam through content. In one of the few things the EA crew got right, when they rebalanced the game and XP to make it so that you can level 1-50 just doing story missions, many of those stories that felt like they dragged felt far more compact and flowed better. Some in chapter 2 still weren't as good as chapter 1, but others were, and almost all of them had great finales in chapter 3.

    Trust me, there is plenty I can nail SWTOR for - but not once in the 5 1/2 years I played it did I ever feel the game was "rushed" - it had far too much polish for that.
     
  22. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    That video was weird - it was like sprites transposed into a modern skybox with some decent lighting (and I could tell they weren't sprites based on the light reflection on the ship). It was a bit jarring - I hope if they remaster it, they give the ships and cockpits a modern engine makeover - that halfway approach just doesn't work for me.
     
  23. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They're probably all mistaken.

    The C&C universe is a different case. The games they put out were horrible after RA3. Bioware games still have much to offer if only people would let them.
     
  24. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    It is a start though, and if popular enough maybe an official version could end up in the pipeline. Probably the most likely scenario is it gets shutdown and no official version comes out. You would think though with the popularity of elite dangerous and start citizen it would show there is still a market out there for space flight sims, especially star wars based.
     
  25. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    So I just read this is a nothing burger - turns out they aren't doing this after all. Yay?
     
  26. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    Nope, just completely disagreeing with you and I personally believe there is more objective evidence to DA2 being shit and possibly the worst Bioware game (outside Star Wars Online).

    Insane use of reused maps, rushed textures (darkspawn in particular are just the worst), poor level design, pop in enemies, no choice in character creation, overly simplistic combat. To me the game was mostly standard RPG quests made terrible by lack of polish and design. The only thing it had going for it was its dialogue.

    DA2 was a spit in the face of DAO, which might just be the last great CRPG.

    Its fine that you like the simplified console rpg. They did a much better job of bridging the two with DA:I.

    Edit: Bioware games have something to offer, it is just a shame that what they do offer is worse that what they did, and what they could. It is a pet peeve when things backslide.

    MEA is a great example:

    the animations are poor (I have seen it myself, I don't watch Youtube shit), but I forgive much of it because Bioware has never been good at animation.

    the voice acting has a huge range of ugh to good, with a few lines being excellent. This shocked me because ME has generally had good-amazing VA with a few lines being ugh.

    The script itself is alright, but I found it quite cringe worthy when talking to many on the Nexus. The narrative is not near as tight as other bioware games.

    Scenery is beautiful, but so was ME 2 and 3 for its age.

    The character design is questionable, all aliens have same face, and most of the humans look like rejects from a disco, I found that particularly odd given the initial premise when you arrive on station. Art direction really should have been more Firefly and less Star Trek, at least in the beginning.

    The biggest problem is the plot, now that I'm almost done the game. It doesn't pick up till close to the end, and there is no reason that it should have been this way, without spoilers they wasted the sense of urgency you have at the start, leading to 20+ hours of mulling about doing fetch quests before ramping things up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  27. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No, you just liked crap that most people didn't.
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii/user-reviews

    There is no doubt it was shoddy rush job. You end up visiting the same dungeon layout like 10 times by the end of the game, because they were too cheep to design alternate dungeon layouts.
     
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  28. Stiler

    Stiler [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I hope people understand that this is Bioware Austin, not Bioware Edmonton (The original Bioware, the ones who made KOTOR, Dragon Age, NWN, ME 1-3, etc).

    Bioware Edmonton is currently at work on a new IP codenamed "Dylan" that's described as a Destiny like game set in a futuristic/post apoc style setting.

    Though The writer for KOTOR, Drew Kapyshyn did shift to Bioware Austin before leaving and then coming back, maybe he's the head of this? I hope so. If they can get it on Frostbite and actually get an EXPERIENCED team behind it that knows the engine well maybe it can turn out decent.

    Would be amazing if they looked at games like For Honor and simialr ones for the melee combato, rather then a hotkey based rpg combat system.
     
  29. Chihlidog

    Chihlidog [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes please.

    A modern KOTOR is going to be good. It may not live up to its full potential but unless they actually make every effort for it to suck then Ill enjoy it. Hell I loved KOTOR 2 when everyone else hated it.

    Take my money!!!
     
  30. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And so what if most people didn't like the game? Mob mentality is not something I sign up for. When I see a dozen people beating on someone I don't join in. I'll find out what's it all about before. The same thing that is now happening to ME:A. Someone might try to make the same argument about it 5 years from now. And I'll tell I liked it. Because I didn't make my judgement based on what others said about the it, and on some bad animations that are not nearly representative of the overall quality of the game. I actually played the game, and was surprised because what they were saying almost made me believe it's actually bad.
    So what was I saying? Oh yes, just because one fool makes a hundred doesn't mean the one fool was right.
    Funny you should mention the reused maps. A thing carried around as a bloodied sword whenever DA2 comes up. But benevolently ignored when the topic is Mass Effect 1.
    So by the same standard ME1 should be crap as well.

    I'm pretty confident that the hate towards DA2 comes from a very different place. Not because it's actually a terrible game. But because of how different it is compared to DA:O. I understand that most loathed the new direction they took. But that doesn't make the game terrible by definition. It's just not what DA:O fans expected. So they're disappointed by their own expectations.

    Calling the game crap is objectively biased. From a technical standpoint it's not a bad game, certainly no worse than any other Bioware games. And the story is solid too, I certainly like it more as it's the most down to earth and relatable story from the series.
     
  31. GDI Lord

    GDI Lord Limp Gawd

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    .
    .
    .
    One can't be on both sides of the fence, M76. One can't appeal to mass authority when it supports one's opinion and then dismiss it when it doesn't. Doing that makes one appear inconsistent.
     
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  32. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You can't always be on the right side of the fence. All I claim is that I don't support what the majority come to think in this regard. I enjoyed DA2. So no matter how many people tell me that I shouldn't have I can't change my mind about that.

    It's slightly different than people dissing games that they haven't even tried they just saw someone else hate on it.

    Actually if you or anyone else telling me that DA2 or ME:A for that matter is a shit game would change my mind about any of them it is then when I'd be dishonest.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  33. Savi

    Savi Gawd

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    How much of the old Bioware from before EA bought them is still there?

    or is it just the Bioware logo, and all new teams?
     
  34. Stiler

    Stiler [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There's still some there, like Lukas Kristjanson and Drew Karpyshyn who were writers on the Baldur's gate series.
     
  35. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    I'm on the fence about a 'remaster'.

    The game was fantastic for its time, but by today's standards the level design is horrendous.

    I'd rather see an authentic sequel or a complete remake.
     
  36. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Gameplay has not always been the companies strong suit. I'll give you that. KOTOR has some rough gameplay that hasn't aged well. Mass Effect 1 hasn't aged especially well on that front either. Their more recent games get more right on that front than they get wrong. Story is subjective so I'll leave that alone. BioWare generally does well in this area although when they fuck up it's on a scale the likes of which no other developer can touch.

    KOTOR was awesome in its day. As I said, it hasn't aged well. The entire Mass Effect series is excellent aside from a few issues. Gameplay wise, ME3 is much better than 1 or 2. Story and the ending are what torpedoed that ship.

    Rectified is the wrong word to describe the extended cut DLC. The ending expands on the original version and changes a couple of key points. It doesn't rectify the problems because the premise of certain elements of that ending are flawed to begin with. BioWare would have to start over from Priority Earth and completely re-engineer everything forward of that to fix that game's ending in a way that's truly satisfactory. I agree with you that Andromeda was rushed and it's lack of polish really hurts it. The game also suffers from pacing issues depending on how you approach it. Approached in a certain order that spreads out the side quests or ignoring side quests not tied to the story, it's fine. The story is decent, although fairly predictable. Aside from ME3, they've all been predictable to some extent. It's the presentation, the setting and the characters that make Mass Effect what it is.

    It's not perfect. Don't get me wrong but the ending does more than explain shit. BioWare said that it would only expand on what's there but that's a fucking lie. Animations were significantly altered to change the ending and alter the results so the Galaxy can go on and life get back to normal. That is unless you are a shitty human being and chose the Synthesis ending. It's a shit ending that's as incongruent with the themes of the series as the Star Brat is. Eugenics anyone?

    This is a fair point. I've tried to like the Bethesda games and I can't. They are mediocre at best. People want to bitch about lifeless and pointless fetch quests and boring filler content in a BioWare game have no room to talk if those games are their examples of how to do an open world game right.

    The Mass Effect series has flaws, don't get me wrong but they aren't generally worse than what I've seen in other AAA games.

    They changed the animations on the Mass Relay explosions so that they are heavily damaged, but salvageable. They sustain more damage in the renegade ending and the Reapers are shown repairing them in the control ending. Originally, the Normandy crashed on some primitive jungle planet with it's wings and engines ripped off and huge holes in the fuselage. This was changed to light damage on the fuselage and the wings / engines being intact. There is even scenes where the Normandy is repaired and takes off again added to the ending. Still images of the after math show cities being rebuilt, bustling activity, families, Krogan with kids, etc. You see your squad members that survived get on with life. I wouldn't say it's good but it's the best that they could do with the foundation they built for it. As I said it would need a monumental redesign of the last couple hours of that game to truly fix shit.
     
  37. Stiler

    Stiler [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The Issue with ME3's ending is that it feels like all of your other choices don't matter really.

    Instead of the games taking into account some of your major choices throughout all three games it basically gives you an easy and quick "pick your ending" choice.

    IMO the ending of ME3 shouldn't have been a "choice," it should have been a culmination of ALL of your choices throughout all three games that decided how the game ended.

    Regardless, the often cited "destruction" ending was the worst one imo, and I don't get why anyone thinks it's the "good" ending. It's the selfish ending, not the ending that a Paragon Shepard would pick.
     
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  38. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Everything's better than the synthesis ending. You are not a good person if you pick that. You are essentially a space Nazi.
     
  39. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Just give us the update treatment for the original game like they recently did with KotOR 2. I don't know how they could only give attention to the sequel and snub the original. I mean, I understand that 2 was left as a more incomplete mess than the first, but come on. I would love to play in widescreen without needing to jump through hoops to do it.
     
  40. Lizard Testes

    Lizard Testes Gawd

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    It'd be pretty amazing if someday there was a front page thread that isn't filled with idiots crying about SJWs.