RTX 3xxx performance speculation

polonyc2

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Yes, but it's a 384bit bus, as compared to the 320bit bus of the 3080, isn't it?

true but I still don't feel the urge to upgrade as much...3080 Ti is definitely the better card and probably better as a gaming card then the 3090 but I don't think it blows away the vanilla 3080
 

GameLifter

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I'm actually glad the rumored 3080 Ti will only have 12GB VRAM (as opposed to 20GB)...makes the decision to keep my 3080 much easier :D
I'd be tempted to get one and sell my 3090 since I don't need the 24GB VRAM of the 3090 and 12GB should be plenty for a while. It'll depend on price and availability of it though but it'll most likely be hard to get and overpriced like all cards now.
 

III_Slyflyer_III

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true but I still don't feel the urge to upgrade as much...3080 Ti is definitely the better card and probably better as a gaming card then the 3090 but I don't think it blows away the vanilla 3080
For price it might be a better deal than the 3090, but technically the 3090 will remain the better card in terms of performance... even if only by a slim margin.

Granted, good luck getting either of them... in the end, if you get any card, you won.
 

DejaWiz

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true but I still don't feel the urge to upgrade as much...3080 Ti is definitely the better card and probably better as a gaming card then the 3090 but I don't think it blows away the vanilla 3080

I hear ya...my 3080 is staying put for quite some time.
 

Nenu

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Unfortunately new cards will not be worth their sale price.
But when it comes to a choice between a rock and a hard place, what can you do?
I came close to giving up gaming with current hardware, the plan was to remain 4 years behind on games and purchase second hand.
But then worked out, if I kept a 3090 for 4 years it was almost the same value as upgrading to the card below every 2 years.
This was when I was lucky enough to get a 3090 at normal price.
Its worth noting that even old hardware has rocketed in price so my 4 yr back plan might have backfired anyway!

PC prices have gone nuts, not helped with ever smaller nodes with less returns (meaning much higher power is needed to get performance up) and higher costs to produce.
But thats nothing compared to lack of availability thats pushed prices to the sky.

I bet card mfrs keep availability low so prices stay high.
I fear normality can never resume, we're screwed from now onward.
Sad days.
 

DejaWiz

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Unfortunately new cards will not be worth their sale price.
But when it comes to a choice between a rock and a hard place, what can you do?
I came close to giving up gaming with current hardware, the plan was to remain 4 years behind on games and purchase second hand.
But then worked out, if I kept a 3090 for 4 years it was almost the same value as upgrading to the card below every 2 years.
This was when I was lucky enough to get a 3090 at normal price.
Its worth noting that even old hardware has rocketed in price so my 4 yr back plan might have backfired anyway!

PC prices have gone nuts, not helped with ever smaller nodes with less returns (meaning much higher power is needed to get performance up) and higher costs to produce.
But thats nothing compared to lack of availability thats pushed prices to the sky.

I bet card mfrs keep availability low so prices stay high.
I fear normality can never resume, we're screwed from now onward.
Sad days.


That's because we have the mere illusion of competition: AMD and nVidia. Intel soon, maybe.

Think back 20 years ago of all the companies making graphics cards. The market was absolutely saturated with a plethora of brands, all bringing their iterations in hopes of scoring a piece of the pie, and price wars galore to win over wallets.
 

Nenu

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That's because we have the mere illusion of competition: AMD and nVidia. Intel soon, maybe.

Think back 20 years ago of all the companies making graphics cards. The market was absolutely saturated with a plethora of brands, all bringing their iterations in hopes of scoring a piece of the pie, and price wars galore to win over wallets.
Yeah its whittled down a lot, you are right, I dont see things improving.
The only addition to the GPU race is the only one that was possible with current tech, Intel.
But even they wont hit the high end for some time, if ever.

The only hope I see is if a new/easier/cheaper method of creating transistors (or an equivalent) with a smaller process is developed.
Being at the mercy of a few companies with this level of demand is not good.
 

Endgame

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It’s not just the decrease in video card vendors that’s an issue, it’s the fact that leading edge foundries are so consolidated and have all their capacity booked. The only way you’ll see capacity really increase is if someone were to make a push to enter the foundry market. At this point, it would likely take a government entity to do that, as the capital expense cash needed would be very high and the ROI would take years to materialize.
 

III_Slyflyer_III

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It’s not just the decrease in video card vendors that’s an issue, it’s the fact that leading edge foundries are so consolidated and have all their capacity booked. The only way you’ll see capacity really increase is if someone were to make a push to enter the foundry market. At this point, it would likely take a government entity to do that, as the capital expense cash needed would be very high and the ROI would take years to materialize.
So true. Not to mention; with only a handful of companies having foundries, those foundries can charge whatever they want as they will be booked solid no matter what. You have what? Samsung, TSMC and Intel? Are there any other major players anymore?
 

Endgame

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So true. Not to mention; with only a handful of companies having foundries, those foundries can charge whatever they want as they will be booked solid no matter what. You have what? Samsung, TSMC and Intel? Are there any other major players anymore?
Not below 14nm. I think global foundries is at 14, but I could be wrong there. In any case, the outlook sucks without another big player, especially with Intel being stuck at 10nm.

if you point joint strike Fighter money into it, it’s likely the US could make a entry into the foundry market and make it available to any US entity wanting to make chips. I don’t see that happening, nor do I see another private entity stepping up, so I only see available getting worse going forward.
 

evhvis

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Not below 14nm. I think global foundries is at 14, but I could be wrong there. In any case, the outlook sucks without another big player, especially with Intel being stuck at 10nm.

if you point joint strike Fighter money into it, it’s likely the US could make a entry into the foundry market and make it available to any US entity wanting to make chips. I don’t see that happening, nor do I see another private entity stepping up, so I only see available getting worse going forward.
Someone else stepping up wouldn't help the situation much for the next 3-5 years. It takes a long time to build new chip manufacturing plants and a new player would have to start somewhat from scratch as well so 5 years would be overly optimistic with regards to the smallest nodes, which are needed for high-end GPUs and CPUs. In a way we are kind of stuck with two major players for the foreseeable future, possibly 3 if Intel make some major advances. It is a kinda scary outlook for availability at future GPU launches.

The thing that would help the most for graphics card availability is another massive drop in crypto currency value. The GPU shortage will probably stay the same until that happens. Those of us who got in line in september were lucky as right now you can't even order a graphics card, for delivery in a few months, outside of maybe something like a 1030 and it has been like that for the last 2 months. High-end GPUs have been almost impossible to buy since launch of the 3000 series, outside of a few 3090 cards which are occasionally available for a few days here and there due them being priced out of reach for a lot of people. There are still cards on backorder from September 2020, which is kind of crazy. E.g. I know of a TUF 3080 card that got delivered a few weeks ago that was ordered 4-5 days after 3080 launch, which says something about the supply available to gamers. Nvidia is probably laughing all the way to the bank though, with record earnings.
 

Endgame

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Someone else stepping up wouldn't help the situation much for the next 3-5 years. It takes a long time to build new chip manufacturing plants and a new player would have to start somewhat from scratch as well so 5 years would be overly optimistic with regards to the smallest nodes, which are needed for high-end GPUs and CPUs. In a way we are kind of stuck with two major players for the foreseeable future, possibly 3 if Intel make some major advances. It is a kinda scary outlook for availability at future GPU launches.

The thing that would help the most for graphics card availability is another massive drop in crypto currency value. The GPU shortage will probably stay the same until that happens. Those of us who got in line in september were lucky as right now you can't even order a graphics card, for delivery in a few months, outside of maybe something like a 1030 and it has been like that for the last 2 months. High-end GPUs have been almost impossible to buy since launch of the 3000 series, outside of a few 3090 cards which are occasionally available for a few days here and there due them being priced out of reach for a lot of people. There are still cards on backorder from September 2020, which is kind of crazy. E.g. I know of a TUF 3080 card that got delivered a few weeks ago that was ordered 4-5 days after 3080 launch, which says something about the supply available to gamers. Nvidia is probably laughing all the way to the bank though, with record earnings.
They aren’t laughing all the way to the bank - just probably smiling all the way. There is a lot of unrealized margin walking out the door for them right now. Had they tripled the MSRP of every card they would likely still be sold out, but with much higher margins.
 

oldmanbal

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I just browsed the nvidia subreddit today and was horrified by the first day backorder purchases that still aren't fulfilled, or going to be fulfilled anytime soon (months at best). The number of people losing their minds over it seems unchanged from when I went through it for hours daily until January. I had stopped looking once I found my 3090 but didn't realize it's still an absolute nightmare for a lot of people, especially those from smaller EU countries.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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I just browsed the nvidia subreddit today and was horrified by the first day backorder purchases that still aren't fulfilled, or going to be fulfilled anytime soon (months at best). The number of people losing their minds over it seems unchanged from when I went through it for hours daily until January. I had stopped looking once I found my 3090 but didn't realize it's still an absolute nightmare for a lot of people, especially those from smaller EU countries.
Looking at the EVGA 3080 FTW3 (the most active card): It's been 181 days since September 17th, the EVGA queue is currently September 20th, which means they've cleared 2.2% of total days. Assuming an even spread of customers across all days it means 2.2% of people who want a card have gotten one. The problem is exacerbated by people buying cards for the sole purpose of scalping them.

It will probably go even slower if, at some point, it reaches October 6th, the day EVGA announced the queue.
 

evhvis

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I just browsed the nvidia subreddit today and was horrified by the first day backorder purchases that still aren't fulfilled, or going to be fulfilled anytime soon (months at best). The number of people losing their minds over it seems unchanged from when I went through it for hours daily until January. I had stopped looking once I found my 3090 but didn't realize it's still an absolute nightmare for a lot of people, especially those from smaller EU countries.
Just browsing my countries largest etailer (and hardware importer/distributer) by far and I figured out why you can't buy graphics cards. If you select one of their pre-builts they list as having 50+ RX6700XT, 30+ RTX 3070 of just the TUF variant, 35+ of the strix OC along with some 3080 and some 3090 and more in stock. They just refuse to let you buy the card separately. If you want to buy everything separately, then you have to fight scalpers, miners and the distributer/etailer which is getting ridiculous.
 

exlink

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I just browsed the nvidia subreddit today and was horrified by the first day backorder purchases that still aren't fulfilled, or going to be fulfilled anytime soon (months at best). The number of people losing their minds over it seems unchanged from when I went through it for hours daily until January. I had stopped looking once I found my 3090 but didn't realize it's still an absolute nightmare for a lot of people, especially those from smaller EU countries.
I'm guessing most etailers won't be fulfilling launch day or launch window orders with the new prices these things are going for. If they don't cancel them they'll probably just have the orders sit there forever unfulfilled (if they don't charge you until it ships).
 

Nightfire

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Interesting. The 3070ti core count is much closer to the 3070 but bandwidth is closer to the 3080 with the help of GDDR6x. The 3080ti should be neck and neck with the 3090.

Infinity cache has been a God send for AMD and GDDR6x has been a nightmare for nVidia. For sufficient bandwidth, nVidia is now forced to use GDDR6x 256 bit or better. 2 Gb modules of gddr6x are either still very expensive or unavailable outright forcing them with high end 8 GB cards. Meanwhile, AMD is cruising with GDDR6 and cheap 2 Gb modules.

The only upside of these cards is that the 3070ti should drive the price of the 6800xt while the 3080ti should do the same for the 6900xt ... in theory.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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IDK how they fit two more 3070's between the existing 3070 and 3080. Unless the 16 GB 3070 Ti ends up being $700 like the 3080.
Are people willing to sacrifice 20%+ performance for 6 GB more VRAM? Just weird.
 

BassTek

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IDK how they fit two more 3070's between the existing 3070 and 3080. Unless the 16 GB 3070 Ti ends up being $700 like the 3080.
Are people willing to sacrifice 20%+ performance for 6 GB more VRAM? Just weird.

A lot of these new models don't make sense. I get a feeling they might cancel the existing models and release the new ones in an attempt to force higher MSRP. Otherwise why have 2-3 cards over a 10-15% performance performance spread when you can't even satiate demand with the existing models?
 

legcramp

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Why sell GPUS for 3080 Ti for a discount when you can sell the same chips on the RTX 3090 for a higher price. :ROFLMAO:
 

evhvis

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IDK how they fit two more 3070's between the existing 3070 and 3080. Unless the 16 GB 3070 Ti ends up being $700 like the 3080.
Are people willing to sacrifice 20%+ performance for 6 GB more VRAM? Just weird.
There is a massive gap in performance between the 3070 and the 3080 so they could probably launch a 3070ti priced around 550$ for a 8gb version and around 640$ for a 16gb version . In a normal market that is about as high as they would be able to go with pricing. In the current market, where a graphics card sold at MSRP is about as rare as a unicorn, they can say a certain MSRP and it will be sold for 20-40% higher. E.g. 3070 cards are typically priced closer to MSRP for the 3080 than a 3070 and people are happy if they are able to buy one.
 

x509

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Yeah its whittled down a lot, you are right, I dont see things improving.
The only addition to the GPU race is the only one that was possible with current tech, Intel.
But even they wont hit the high end for some time, if ever.

The only hope I see is if a new/easier/cheaper method of creating transistors (or an equivalent) with a smaller process is developed.
Being at the mercy of a few companies with this level of demand is not good.
Or maybe some new company out of China will enter the GPU market. Who knows? I certainly don't.
 

Wag

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x509

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Oh good, another card I can neither afford nor find.

I was planning on upgrading my PC by now but that's not going to happen any time soon. 5820k@4.3GHz with 2080Ti. I wanted to upgrade both my CPU and GPU and the same time, but it's kind of pointless to do that right now.
If you are trying to get a 5000 series AMD CPU, it's Good Luck Charlie time.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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Oh good, another card I can neither afford nor find.

I was planning on upgrading my PC by now but that's not going to happen any time soon. 5820k@4.3GHz with 2080Ti. I wanted to upgrade both my CPU and GPU and the same time, but it's kind of pointless to do that right now.
Are you at 4K or something those specs are fine.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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That's fine. I have a huge backlog anyways. 5820k@4.3GHz and 2080Ti is still good enough for most games @ 4k/60Hz with a few adjustments.
Could always jump in the EVGA queue for the 3080 Ti, assuming they launch in the next few months.
 

Wag

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Could always jump in the EVGA queue for the 3080 Ti, assuming they launch in the next few months.
I'm not paying premium prices to upgrade. Hopefully within the next year or so prices will drop to somewhere around normal levels.
 

TaintedSquirrel

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I'm not paying premium prices to upgrade. Hopefully within the next year or so prices will drop to somewhere around normal levels.
Depends, I got my 3060 Black last week for MSRP ($330), actually $320 with a coupon.
That is assuming they launch a "3080 Ti Black" at MSRP.
 

Wag

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Depends, I got my 3060 Black last week for MSRP ($330), actually $320 with a coupon.
That is assuming they launch a "3080 Ti Black" at MSRP.
As I said, I need to upgrade both my CPU and GPU so I might as well wait. I suppose if I find a good deal on a CPU/Motherboard combo I can do that first. 2080Ti still has some life left but for pushing 4k on the newest games it's not the best. I just purchased a new Vizio Quantum X so it also has 120Hz support.
 
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