Retailers Disable Chip Card Readers During Holidays For Being Too Slow

[naib]

Sounds like these retailers bought the shit card readers...

Here in the UK quite alot of the shops have fast readers and it is orders of magnitude faster if the retailer actually checks the SIG...
But every now and again you enter a shop that has a slow reader and yes it takes time. Usually it is the smaller shops thinking they will save money. Big shops with long queue see the false economy in cheap readers

 

[necrosis]

What waiting around? Cashier scans first item, insert card,

Yes. I am just going to leave my card sticking out of the reader while they ring things up... great idea.

 

[Yakk]

Sounds like these retailers bought the shit card readers...

Here in the UK quite alot of the shops have fast readers and it is orders of magnitude faster if the retailer actually checks the SIG...
But every now and again you enter a shop that has a slow reader and yes it takes time. Usually it is the smaller shops thinking they will save money. Big shops with long queue see the false economy in cheap readers

Yup, the fast (normal speed I call them) readers have instant approval after entering the pin. No delay, Canada has been the same for many years now.

 

[i960]

Yes. I am just going to leave my card sticking out of the reader while they ring things up... great idea.

Well some people seem to be upset about having to wait an extra 5 seconds, so yes, this is a great idea. It doesn't actually approve the transaction until you either sign or enter your pin.

 

[Ragenrok]

How is the sig any faster at all? Unless your shopping at retarded stores they should be checking your signature and/or your ID which takes longer than 5 seconds. I'm in Canada as well, once in a blue moon a chip reader stops reading so they have to swipe and not once have they not checked my signature, some even request photo ID and I'm very glad they do. Even if my CC offers fraud protection how long before that clears up and I get my money back?

Then there's the very awesome tap system, just press your card to the machine and it pays, only works on $50 or less so its great for coffee or small things with out being a huge fraud risk and takes 1 second to process.

 

[Jagger100]

Everywhere else on the planet is using chip & pin now, contrary to popular belief Americans are no stupider than anyone else (there are stupid people everywhere).

The PIN puts responsibility and some of the onus back on the banks. They have to pay for the servers that authenticate the PIN.

The banks got onboard with the chip as a way to force retailers to update their readers. They don't see themselves as the problem and definitely don't want to spend money on their end to improve things. So they pushed against the switch to PIN to keep signature which the retailer is responsible to authenticate.

The banks vectored in a bunch of liability laws to put liability back on retailers.

 

[Armenius]

NFC payment with cards was done in the US, but not very widely, and there were concerns over high powered systems stealing payment info in public spaces so it's quietly disappeared. Credit cards with PINs aren't likely to be accepted here either, we carry too many cards, it'll be inconvenient to remember all the PINs; besides, I don't want to type my PIN into a merchant's terminal, they might record it and do who knows what with it. I'm much happier to let the card network take the risk and I don't have to do anything other than check my statements.

The PIN is useless without the matching chip. Transmission of the PIN bypasses the merchant's system anyway, from my understanding, so it's impossible for anything to be stored.

This is LARGELY true most systems but I have paid attention and noticed that the systems in use at Target and Home Deport (for example) don't actually read the card until the cashier is done ringing items. In fact, if you insert the card early the system will tell you to remove it and wait until the cashier is done.

That said, I just noticed this weekend that the systems used by Walgreens are MUCH faster. It still has you wait but their entire chip transaction was near instantaneous -- just as fast as a swipe.

I would not be surprised AT ALL if this is a matter of retailers picking the "cheap" version of a system that is slower rather than spending more money on faster ones.

I noticed at Target that cashier action is required after scanning all items to allow chip authentication, as well. I don't understand why it was implemented this way.

 

[Uvaman]

If the chip reader is enabled it will force you to use it. When you swipe your card through the magnet reader it will detect that it's a chip enabled card and tell you to put it into the chip slot. It won't process the transaction unless you do. The most confusing part is knowing whether or not a store has them enabled. I just end up asking if it is or not rather than having to guess.

@Uvaman: It depends upon what attacks we're talking about. The attacks that occurred at Target and Home Depot wouldn't have happened because even if they scraped the memory from the computers, they can't generate a valid one time use code to process a transaction on. For online I think that comes back to whether or not the site is using the CVE code on the back of the card. That is essentially a PIN that you are only using with online purchases, so I'm not sure if you can get that information off the card unless you are actually looking at it. (I'd hope not). If they had some type of authenticator system that would generate a rolling code that would obviously be better still, but that would be very difficult for the average person.

If I had to guess what happened with your cards is they were running the card at a place where you only needed to obtain the basic info like the number, expiration date, and name of the card holder. If they were doing a honey pot where you were putting your information into a false site, then that wouldn't protect you even with the CVE code or a pin because those do not change. So we'd still need to have a way to verify the authenticity of online purchases even with Chip + pin.

I get it, it makes sense. Thank you..
I don't know if I am particularly lucky but 3x card number stolen, and 1x identity suuuucks!.
I just froze all my credit reports like 3 months after they passed the law and offered the service... it costs me 30$ to unfreeze (10 per agency @ my state), but well worth it

 

[Ur_Mom]

I haven't had an issue with chip & pin yet. I did see some people that didn't know how to do it cause some delays, but it's expected as it's new. Next year, it won't be a problem.

 

[Canon]

Your doing it wrong...

In Canada we have had CHIP + PIN + NFC for a while now.
For purchases under $100, most places allow you to tap the card on the terminal's screen, put it back in your wallet and you are done done. Total transaction time from tap to approval is usually less than 5 seconds, quicker than cash for coffee and other random shit.

For purchases over $100, you put your card in, wait 2-3 seconds, you verify the amount, press OK and put your pin in. Then you wait for the approved message and put your card in your wallet, still quicker than most cashiers are handling cash these days in my experience.

The problem is the consumer. Once you get used to it, it's not a big deal. The NFC for transactions < $100 is key though IMHO. Makes it actually work for getting coffee, lunch etc. I hardly ever get cash out these days and just carry a minimal amount for emergencies. It's a lot better if you lose your wallet or someone mugs you...

 

[Dekoth-E-]

What waiting around? Cashier scans first item, insert card, cashier finishes scanning, sign or enter pin, remove card. Zero time difference between swiping. It's done before they even have your items bagged. I have 3 different chip cards and I've used them in dozens of different stores, and there is never even 1 extra second of delay. The only time I've ever been delayed is at a gas station where they have a chip reader that isn't enabled, and it prompts you to swipe instead.

I think any concern with the processing speed difference is nonsense when the greatest amount of time spent at checkout is scanning and bagging. The only time there is ever a delay on the payment side is when someone can't figure it out. And that problem will correct itself with time.

So it takes you the entirety of the time the cashier is scanning while your card sits in the machine? What the heck were you doing before? I swipe on the first item, and have the pin entered and all the prompts done and my card in the wallet before they even have the 3rd item scanned. At that point I'm ready to walk out the door when they finish scanning instead of just then starting to enter my pain. There is a HUGE difference in time unless you are one of those assholes who waits until you are given a total to even start to use the stupid card reader. The only delay for me is if the cashier is asking me if I want cash back, otherwise I'm getting handed a receipt and walking out the door while you are still sitting there entering your pin.

 

[i960]

So it takes you the entirety of the time the cashier is scanning while your card sits in the machine? What the heck were you doing before? I swipe on the first item, and have the pin entered and all the prompts done and my card in the wallet before they even have the 3rd item scanned. At that point I'm ready to walk out the door when they finish scanning instead of just then starting to enter my pain. There is a HUGE difference in time unless you are one of those assholes who waits until you are given a total to even start to use the stupid card reader. The only delay for me is if the cashier is asking me if I want cash back, otherwise I'm getting handed a receipt and walking out the door while you are still sitting there entering your pin.

I could wait to put the card in until they are done, I just choose not to. I don't sign or enter my pin until I see the total, because mistakes do happen from time to time. It doesn't take any additional time. They are busy bagging the items while I finish up. It's seriously like 5 seconds or less. If losing 5 seconds out of your day is a big deal, you're doing it wrong.

 

[nilepez]

It has nothing to do with people and everything to do with the machines processing. I can swipe, pin, go through all the prompts and have my regular card back in my wallet before the chip card finishes validating in every single store I've been in. The process is easy, it is all the retarded standing around waiting on the machine that irritates everyone.

My one time using it was no more than a few seconds. I couldn't swipe and enter a pin, in the time it took.

 

[Crosshairs]

Used a chip card for the first time about a month ago. My main card has no chip USAA (though i hear they are moving to visa and will issue chipped cards early next year). I ran my BoA card which was chipped and they were like 'stick it in the thing'. 'OK' then i took it out. 'No it has to stay in there'. 'Um OK'. Put it back in then had to wait for the cashier to push some buttons. Wait a bit more. Then I could finally remove the card.

Literally barely a second (swipe) to 5+ (chip). Oh and to trigger the chip I have to swipe anyhow.

My newest Capitol One is chipped and I also used it for the first time about a month ago..( I use it online all the time, but never used it in a store)
it was in Best Buy and I had no idea what I was doing.....luckily the guy running the register did....it does add lot of steps to the process.....I guess this is the price we to pay for the cards to be more secure...

 

[Dekoth-E-]

I could wait to put the card in until they are done, I just choose not to. I don't sign or enter my pin until I see the total, because mistakes do happen from time to time. It doesn't take any additional time. They are busy bagging the items while I finish up. It's seriously like 5 seconds or less. If losing 5 seconds out of your day is a big deal, you're doing it wrong.

It isn't the 5 seconds, it's that the technology was implemented wrong and is no better than current. It adds a layer of irritation because we got a half assed attempt at Chip n pin instead of something proven.

 

[Romale23]

Think some of you are looking at this wrong in terms of your card and security, the security of your card shouldn't even concern you. Get a couple of cards and just don't care. For you the consumer you should go with whatever is most convenient.
Your not liable.

If credit card company or retailer doesn't give a shit, why should you. If you think about it chip and sign lets you still do things like tip without everyone having a hand held reader.

 

[tybert7]

What concerns me is, who the fuck exactly made this tech and how is it that they did not see this as a problem during the development & testing phase? The way people are willing to spend 10 minutes finding parking spots that save them 15 seconds of walking should say enough about how people view their time, so of course no one is going to want to wait 10 seconds for a chip to process. It seems pretty ridiculous for it to take that long in the first place... What exactly is it doing that can't be done instantly?

I don't know, but I can say that the single fastest transaction time for any company ever is Chipotle. It's like they have 100gbps fiber running to every location because the millisecond your card is swiped, that receipt is rolling out.

 

[Ryokurin]

Your doing it wrong...

In Canada we have had CHIP + PIN + NFC for a while now.
For purchases under $100, most places allow you to tap the card on the terminal's screen, put it back in your wallet and you are done done. Total transaction time from tap to approval is usually less than 5 seconds, quicker than cash for coffee and other random shit.

For purchases over $100, you put your card in, wait 2-3 seconds, you verify the amount, press OK and put your pin in. Then you wait for the approved message and put your card in your wallet, still quicker than most cashiers are handling cash these days in my experience.

The problem is the consumer. Once you get used to it, it's not a big deal. The NFC for transactions < $100 is key though IMHO. Makes it actually work for getting coffee, lunch etc. I hardly ever get cash out these days and just carry a minimal amount for emergencies. It's a lot better if you lose your wallet or someone mugs you...

Except most cards don't have NFC. the industry did a good job in scaring people on that. There is no chip and pin and the people who do have chip cards have probably had them less than three months.

The biggest problem is that the card industry does not want to implement any changes that will cost them money, but are ok with costing their customers more. If you are going to increase security, do it everywhere instead of insisting that your house is fine, it's the retailer that's messing up.

 

[drescherjm]

So it takes you the entirety of the time the cashier is scanning while your card sits in the machine? What the heck were you doing before? I swipe on the first item, and have the pin entered and all the prompts done and my card in the wallet before they even have the 3rd item scanned. At that point I'm ready to walk out the door when they finish scanning instead of just then starting to enter my pain. There is a HUGE difference in time unless you are one of those assholes who waits until you are given a total to even start to use the stupid card reader. The only delay for me is if the cashier is asking me if I want cash back, otherwise I'm getting handed a receipt and walking out the door while you are still sitting there entering your pin.

Some stores like Home Depot (at least the 2 or 3 around Pittsburgh that I have gone to in the last few months) will not let you insert the card before the cashier is finished. This is different from when we used to swipe. I could swipe after the first item was scanned.

John

 

[AMD T-type]

I don't know, but I can say that the single fastest transaction time for any company ever is Chipotle. It's like they have 100gbps fiber running to every location because the millisecond your card is swiped, that receipt is rolling out.

Haha, this is so true.

 

[the_servicer]

Any advice about whether it is safe to use a chip in self checkout? The question is whether to use self checkout at all if one is concerned about security. Some Krogers locations have started activating the chip readers including those in self checkout terminals.

 

[nilepez]

Any advice about whether it is safe to use a chip in self checkout? The question is whether to use self checkout at all if one is concerned about security. Some Krogers locations have started activating the chip readers including those in self checkout terminals.

Why would it matter? It's the same machines and you're inserting the card either way. Then again, I just don't care either way. If there's fraud, the CC company covers it, not me, and fraud is much harder with a chip than a stripe reader.

 

[the_servicer]

If I have to choose between having to file a fraud claim and wait weeks for resolution and not doing that at all, I choose the latter. That's why I am careful, eg, never using self checkout. Just wondering if I am being too cautious especially now that the chips are overtaking the stripes.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Another tale of convenience over security. This is literally an anecdote that singles out a particular store, but I’m sure many other vendors were guilty of this.

…retailers are reacting to shoppers’ sentiments. One in five consumers names transaction time as their biggest concern when using an EMV-enabled credit or debit card, according to a recent survey by point-of-sale firm Harbortouch. It takes about seven to 10 seconds to process a chip card at the register versus two to three seconds to process a swipe.

I can attest to CHIP being slow. it takes 2x the time to process a transaction...

 

[nilepez]

If I have to choose between having to file a fraud claim and wait weeks for resolution and not doing that at all, I choose the latter. That's why I am careful, eg, never using self checkout. Just wondering if I am being too cautious especially now that the chips are overtaking the stripes.

There's no difference between self-checkout and someone else checking you out. If your Card issuer is a pain to deal with then it'll be a pain. If you use Discover, you'll call up, they'll take the info down, reverse the charge and more than likely that will be the end of it.

I can attest to CHIP being slow. it takes 2x the time to process a transaction...

It varies dramatically by machine. CVS (or was it Walgreen?) is almost instant. Kroger is slightly slower, but not bad. Went to Office Max today and it was insanely slow. So it's not the chip, it's bad readers.

 

[Jagger100]

The problem with the card is that you hold it still in the reader making it far easier to grab the numbers from a person with a good camera or good eyes. Only the last 8 numbers are really unique. The first 8 can be discerned by the card's art and the financial companies on it VISA + CITIBANK + ARTWORK solves the first 8 numbers. The last 8 are hanging out unless you cover them. And its awkward to do.

 

[Ocellaris]

The problem with the card is that you hold it still in the reader making it far easier to grab the numbers from a person with a good camera or good eyes. Only the last 8 numbers are really unique. The first 8 can be discerned by the card's art and the financial companies on it VISA + CITIBANK + ARTWORK solves the first 8 numbers. The last 8 are hanging out unless you cover them. And its awkward to do.

Awkward to cover the number? Put a piece of masking tape over that last few digits if you are worried, done.

 

[nilepez]

The problem with the card is that you hold it still in the reader making it far easier to grab the numbers from a person with a good camera or good eyes. Only the last 8 numbers are really unique. The first 8 can be discerned by the card's art and the financial companies on it VISA + CITIBANK + ARTWORK solves the first 8 numbers. The last 8 are hanging out unless you cover them. And its awkward to do.

That doesn't give them the security code, which is needed for virtually every online order/phone order. You're far more likely to be exposed to fraud at a restaurant or from a stripe reader than you are from someone reading your numbers in self check out. I can't even remember a time where self checkout had a line where the person was directly behind me. Normally there in a queue that's at least 5 or 10 feet away.

That said, my visa has the numbers on the back side and my Discover is almost impossible to read for 18" (cause the shiny shit is all worn off).