Resolved.

[SylarPowers]

I see what your saying, design the case so that it's all vertical, not just the fan air path. Not sure the market is ready for such a change. I'm surprised we got stack cooling at all.

Besides this, I like my disc trays flat. Don't wan't to risk scratching those discs. It's easier to lay them down, less mechanical scratches. Like the PS3/360 in the vertical postition, more chance of bumping the case and causing a scratch.

 

[coconutboy]

John, I like your concept for the variety of mounting options it provides, but I, too, prefer the horizontal layout for my optical drives. I tried using my X360 on it's side and it's just annoying to me when disks fall out. Perhaps if there were enough good choices in slot-loading odds that supported vertical mounting I might be more interested.

Your idea for mounting hdds though is definitely an improvement. My instincts would rather have a bracket on each side (w rubber mounting) to minimize vibrations, but if a single-sided design proves sturdy that'd be nifty. I've been concerned about Silverstone squeezing 5 hdds bays into the FT02 because, like the FT01, I think there's just not enough airflow when all drive bays are filled. It's been proven the FT01 cools (gpus) better w/ the middle cage removed, even if there are zero drives in it, so why Silverstone uses this same drive-squishing design again is befuddling. Case manufacturers often use parts interchangeably between designs to save production costs, but I think the FT02's hdd cage is a completely new part which is a shame because there simply isn't an acceptable amount of airflow there.

For my needs, 4 hdds is a minimum (RAID), but I prefer 6-7. These drives NEED proper airflow and unless thorough testing proves otherwise, I'm not convinced Silverstone's design is safe for people who hammer away on their hdds for days at a time. When larger SSDs become affordable, I'll be able to scale back to 3 hdds and use the single SSD mount in the FT02. That will allow me to use every other bay w/ a nice gap in between, but still, this is a flaw that could be fixed easily and I'd rather have 2 SSD mounts along w/ 4 properly spaced hdds so I can use RAID 10 instead of RAID 5.

 

[coconutboy]

Not that this is 100% true, much less outside Japan, but this is the 3rd place I've seen posting a December release for the FT02. *sigh* Might just have to mod one of my old towers or hope I luck out on the other case I've been trying to track down.

 

[SylarPowers]

Just pulled the trigger on my FT02-BW preorder from Sundialmicro. It was $255 US, shipping was another $43.55 to NJ. They only have the black and windowed version it seems.

Here is the preorder link, due to come out Dec 4th!

http://www.sundialmicro.com/search_product.php?keywords=ft02&manufacture=

 

[yenniedn]

Sundial Micro is a great place to order cases from . . . good selection, good prices and very good service. I just wish they were one state away (like in Oregon or Nevada or something) so I wouldn't have to pay sales tax

 

[coconutboy]

Ugh, nearly $300? That sounds like price gouging or else Silverstone has overpriced the FT02 (normal for a newly released product). I'll wait to see what other retailer's prices are because for a helluva lot less $$ than that I can pick up several outstanding cases that offer features superior to the FT02. I've spent quite a bit of time researching cases for several months now so I'm very informed about what's on the market at a given price. Maybe later I'll post some info/links/alternatives for people who can't/won't buy the FT02.

Based on the reviews/testing from people who own or have hands-on experience w/ the Raven 02, the cooling is definitely good, but it's no better than the other top-performing chassis out there; the Raven 02 typically wins or loses by 1-2c vs other quality cases. A couple testers even have the RV02 getting its ass kicked by cases like the Haf 922 which sells for less than $100. The Haf is ugly as hell IMO, but for ~$120-170 Iess than the FT02, that money can be used for more ram/gpu/hdd/cpu etc. In addition to all the reviews/blogs/tests I read of the RV02, I also recall reading comments on Newegg from a confirmed RV02 owner (name is Deathrend) who said his Raven 02 couldn't keep his SLI'd GTX 280s cool enough to not overheat when using this EVGA x58 mobo. Then he switched to a Haf while still using all the same components and things worked great. Considering you can't really screw up installation of fans in a Raven nor wreck the airflow, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. There are also people here in the [H] who own the Raven telling us that the bottom-to-top cooling isn't as godly as it might seem. Instead the main advantage is how quiet the case is while keeping things cool. From earlier in this same thread:

EDIT- In the below text, I misquoted yenniedn. He was comparing the 1st Raven case to the Lian Li, not the RV02/FT02 design. Apologies for any confusion I may have caused.

You prefer the raven over the b70 I sold you?

Hey bud, I'm deciding between the two. The B70 cools A LOT better than the Raven for me (surprisingly). Granted it's been hot here the last two days but I thought the Raven would AT LEAST have better GPU cooling and equal CPU cooling - it has proven otherwise so far.

If Silverstone (or perhaps it's the etailers, we'll soon find out) think they can charge $250+, that might work for a little while when the case is new and some people want a new toy for Xmas, but CES is in January so the "oooh shiny" won't last long and by then word will have gotten around about how it performs vs the competition. And once we eliminate the subjectivity of the FT02's looks, it comes down to, features and price where the likes of Lian Li or the Corsair 800d utterly destroy the FT02 on features. As is, I have a number of cases I think are better looking and after showing my lady the 32 pics I have of the FT02 (love me some caseporn!), she only ranks it 3rd on her list and this is her new computer we're buying the case for.

 

[JohnHind]

John, I like your concept for the variety of mounting options it provides, but I, too, prefer the horizontal layout for my optical drives.

Thanks! I think the use of a laptop drive will address these concerns though. The Sony drive I am experimenting with grips the CD firmly by the spindle hole so there is no danger of dropping it. It is a little suboptimal because there is no motor on the tray - just a spring which pops it up about half an inch and you then need to lift and hold it up against gravity. I am thinking about making some kind of latch to hold it up so disk changing is not a two-handed operation.

Does anyone know if slot loading drives work with reduced size disks? It is difficult to imagine how this would work as surely they must be gripping the edge of the disk?

 

[Trigeminal]

Ugh, nearly $300? That sounds like price gouging or else Silverstone has overpriced the FT02 (normal for a newly released product). I'll wait to see what other retailer's prices are because for a helluva lot less $$ than that I can pick up several outstanding cases that offer features superior to the FT02. I've spent quite a bit of time researching cases for several months now so I'm very informed about what's on the market at a given price. Maybe later I'll post some info/links/alternatives for people who can't/won't buy the FT02.

Sounds like a good plan. At $180 this case is very competitive and if you like the look it wins out, but at $200 it starts to lose to other cases and above $220, especially around $270 with shipping, too many cases will demolish it.

Then it can be beat by cases $200 less that is a problem. Posting cases myight give people an idea of what's out there and give silverstone an idea of high its high-end competition, like lian-li, thermal take, corsair, and antec, offer for the price.

 

[OrAnGe]

I wouldn't be comparing an HAF anything to this FT02... or the Corsair 800D's completely worthless air cooling. Edit: ok ok not completely worthless but less than optimal.

I don't see any other manufactures cases that would offer the same air cooling efficiency WHILE being quiet, keeping the dust to a minimum (with EASY to remove filters and positive air pressure), and looking good. I've been looking around for a couple of months and can't find one.

MMMMM all black FT02 inside an out

 

[WorldExclusive]

Just pulled the trigger on my FT02-BW preorder from Sundialmicro. It was $255 US, shipping was another $43.55 to NJ. They only have the black and windowed version it seems.

Here is the preorder link, due to come out Dec 4th!

http://www.sundialmicro.com/search_product.php?keywords=ft02&manufacture=

Seriously?

I was just looking at the comments for the past weeks. I hyped this case up so much earlier in this thread also, but for that price you can't be serious. It's not even about money, it's about the case being priced out of it's segment. This is a $200 case at the most.

 

[Silver5656]

awow dec 4th.....i dont know if i cant wait another month

 

[SylarPowers]

Everyone is looking at this from different points of view. I honestly think that this case is worth $200-250 US. Does it cool as well as the HAF? No, but when I'm done with it it will. And really the HAF leaves alot to be desired in other areas. And I'm not penny pinching here. Also you can't blame Silverstone and Sundialmicro for shipping. Wait for Amazon to sell it if you want free shipping and no tax. The shipping charge was worth it in my situation as my old case needs replacing now, not when Amazon gets around to having it in stock.

This case has a list of features that is not matched by ANY case I can find for any price. On paper anyway (we shall see soon).

1. Subjectivly I like the looks. I'm vain with my PC parts.

2. Postive Pressure is ummm... a positve feature.

3. Above average intake fan area. I see remarks posted about temps, but honestly I will not depend on Silverstones (however great they are) fans. I just need a massive wall of intake space, I will take it from there.

4. Black inside. The PC-P80 is missing this.

5. CPU cutout. The PC-P80 is missing this.

6. Wiring ease. The PSU is in a better position than with most cases. Wire routes are nice here.

7. I like the Unibody Aluminum. I like the Steel. Rigitiy Rigity Rigity. That's where the PC-X1000 simply failed IMHO. Good case if you can put up with that issue, but it is too expensive, too tall and hard to wire up.

8. Macbook like finish is cool and different. Possibly more durble than brushed aluminum finish.

9. Filters. Every case that does not have this feature fails. I don't care if the HAF costs 5 bucks as it has no filters. I would get the filtered CM 840 before I would ever consider the HAF series. However the CM 840 is a bit boring to me and just not quite what I am looking for.

10. Speaking of the HAF, it cools well due to it's huge side fan, which is nice, but I don't want any side fans. Breaks up the looks and then you have to mess with that fan wire when you open the side door. Thermaltake had it right with a built in touch connecter for the fan wire in the door. However, how would you upgrade those fan sizes? CM cases are seemingly designed for CM Fans. Not a bad thing, but I like more control if I can get it. I believe that the FT02's panel of intake provides more for the fan upgrader in this respect.

11. No feet to break off. And you can secure the PC via a lock around that ski leg foot. Kewl.

12. The wires are more consolidated/hidden in the stack design.

13. Excellent GPU and CPU cooling ability. The 800D is not going to cut it with that GPU section trapping heat.

However if you don't share my thoughts, clearly the CM 840 or the old Fortress FT01 might meet your needs better. Other cases that have caught my eye was the Lian Li PC-P50R (order the regular window door to lose the dragon door, plus order up another Red 120mm Intake HD Cage) and the TJ10 (nice but missing modern stuff like filters, cpu cutout, and more intakes). The Lian Li PC-P50R has a red interior, is much smaller for moving it around, uses more standard 120mm/140mm fans for easy aftermarket upgrades. Highly tempted to try that one myself, tho the FT02 design trumps it overall.

 

[Trigeminal]

Look forward to your case mod log. I'll likely have one of my own in the dec/jan time frame. What are your ideas to improve cooling? Seems like a pretty difficult feat, as I believe this case is near tops for cooling, esp considering cooling/noise.

 

[SylarPowers]

Look forward to your case mod log. I'll likely have one of my own in the dec/jan time frame. What are your ideas to improve cooling? Seems like a pretty difficult feat, as I believe this case is near tops for cooling, esp considering cooling/noise.

I think that I will have to try a few things out to find the right upgrade. I think that the stock cooling will be fine for most people. With all due respect to Silverstone's R&D, I'm a bit more demanding and I can't believe that Silverstone is the end all be all of fan design. Plus they have a budget to meet selling this thing.

The importaint thing is that you have that massive wall of intake space to play with

 

[coconutboy]

I wouldn't be comparing an HAF anything to this FT02... or the Corsair 800D's completely worthless air cooling. Edit: ok ok not completely worthless but less than optimal.

I don't see any other manufactures cases that would offer the same air cooling efficiency WHILE being quiet, keeping the dust to a minimum (with EASY to remove filters and positive air pressure), and looking good. I've been looking around for a couple of months and can't find one.

You can't find any? How about:

• this fully aluminum $200 Lian Li case which is sold out everywhere but will be back on shelves this month. Another option? Okay np-
  
• Remember that quote I linked above where EDIT- (mistake on my part, yenniedn was referring to the RV01) [STRIKE=yenniedn said, [I]"The (Lian Li pc-) B70 cools A LOT better than the Raven for me (surprisingly)"[/I]?][/s] Well the Lian Li pc-a70f is almost the exact same case (it's 0.2 inches shorter) and costs less than $200. It has the best toolless PCIe clips ever, loads of bays, is fully aluminum, and unlike the FT02 will hold E-ATX mobos along w/ no worries about which yet-to-be-released Nvidia/ATI gpu will/won't fit.
  
• Or instead of spending less, how about we spend a little more than the FT02 and pick up Silverstone's own TJ07 for $289 after MIR.
  
• Love 'em or hate 'em, I also notice the fully aluminum TT Mozart TX with or w/o windows and Thermaltake SwordM (throw away the included h20 gear, it's junk) are pretty cheap these days which means you could pick one up, spend a few dollars on fans/dust filters/whatever and have a great chassis, especially for watercooling. The Mozart/Sword cases got a bad rap when they were new because of the cost, but with prices having dropped, they're actually excellent cases for the money.

Just looking at the usual etailers as well as places like Fry's/Microcenter I've found several very good alternatives, but perhaps your exact criteria and priorities are different than mine. Everyone has different reasons for choosing a case and while there's overlap in our choices, the top 4 reasons are usually:

1. price is almost always #1 or else we'd all own $500 customized cases. This is followed by in some varying order-
   
2. performance- for some people this means cooling, for others quiet, yet others the ratio between the two
   
3. aesthetics- one man thinks a case is ugly, another thinks it's pure sex. Highly subjective.
   
4. features- things like thumbscrews, toolless bays/expansion slots, windows (or lack thereof), blowholes, SSD mounts, dust filters, x number of drive bays/hdd cages, dual PSU mounts, roomy internals for watercooling (and internal radiator locations) or perhaps a buyer instead prefers just enough room for their gpu/hdds and wants it all squeezed into a compact package like SFF or mini-tower.

For our household, the largest attraction of the FT02/RV02 was what I initially perceived as an outstanding cooling design combined w/ the easy-to-use dust filters (I'm big on dust filters) and quiet sound while still having looks that my lady finds pleasing. Assuming the FT02 performs similarly to the RV02, Silverstone has delivered on all 4 counts (kudos to their engineering dept and props to the business people for taking a risk on this unique design), but the cooling performance is somewhat less than I expected. This brings up the first major problem with this case: modding.

Enthusiasts who want improved cooling will be able to slap in some loud/high rpm 120/140mm fans, but that further adds to the total cost of ownership. Considering Silverstone charges $20-30 per 18cm fan, I would love to know how much both the RV02 and FT02 would cost without fans. These cases would probably do very well w/ the jet engine loud crowd if sold fanless although then we'd run into the issue with the fan bearings mentioned earlier in the thread -

Something I didn't like with the horizontal 180mm fans is that they're sleeve bearing fans, and as such are much noisier when mounted horizontally.

You are right on that as normal sleeve bearing fans become noisier only when they are positioned horizontally to blow air up because they vibrate a lot in that particular orientation (this is not a problem if the fan is blowing air down). Noise caused by vibration aside, sleeve bearing fan is still quieter than ball bearing fan. So when we were developing the 180mm fans for the Fortress FT01 and RAVEN RV01 case last year, we spent quite a lot of time solving this problem, eventally we found that a custom spacer designed to fit between the C ring and the bearing cover did the trick and eliminated the vibration.

Clearly, if you're buying an FT02/RV02 and think you'll just slap in a different fans for better cooling, this probably isn't the case you should buy. Second, while it is possible to watercool the Raven/Fortress 2, these cases are crap when compared to other alternatives, including many which are much less expensive and allow that money to be used for a better pump or fans etc.

Visually, I find the FT02's simple, curved exterior "pretty good but not great". Silverstone really screwed up the window by putting it on the outside. Meanwhile my g/f likes the FT02 more than I do and places the Fortress in a 3-way tie for 3rd on her list which means there's 4 other cases vying for our money. I'll skip over features because plenty of other cases do as well or better than the FT02 and that's pretty obvious if you've shopped around; the main selling points of the FT02 are the quiet cooling and looks.

That brings us to price. It's a new case with a fair bit of hype around it, so it's expected to be sold at a premium vs what it will likely cost in 6 months. I expected the FT02 to be around the $220-230 mark. When Tony let us know there were yield issues that would further raise the cost, I told my g/f that the MSRP might be closer to $250-270 or maybe even $300. Again, it's a new case, and over time I would expect this to come down. But the problem is positioning versus the competition because not everyone wanting the FT02 will have the same ordering of the four points I mentioned above. Many people buy a less expensive case, throw a few $$ at it for mods, and then they have the exact case they want. The more expensive a case gets, the fewer people there will be buying it while still willing to spend even more to fix its flaws.

Even at $250 my g/f and I are still interested in this case and I really don't think it's too far out of line price-wise vs the competition, maybe $20-40 which isn't too bad, but a lot of potential buyers will start looking at the competition. If I have time tomorrow/Monday, I'll try to make good on my earlier comment to post a list of alternatives, but I got a wedding to go to tomorrow, leave town on vacation next week yadda yadda, till then, here's a thread from Arstechnica with a list of some other solid cases, albeit, I made that list specifically to meet the OPs criteria. My perspective is NO case is perfect. They all have their flaws, so we enthusiasts have to constantly make compromises to get what we want.

 

[SylarPowers]

Silverstone FT02 release PDF, worth a look...

http://www.sundialmicro.com/images/products/items/ft02bw-info.pdf

 

[SylarPowers]

I personally think anything above a CM 840 at $200 US delivered is above mass market in this economy! I don't think we are the mass market. Kinda like video games and the Wii. The real games are on the PS3/360, yet the Wii sells to a billion soccer moms and people wanting Wii Fit and Wii sports for the novalty. Then it sits collecting dust while the PS3/360 game attachment rates kills the Wii's attachment rates.

Can't say I agree that the TJ07 has better air cooling potentual than the FT02, FT01 or TJ10. Lian Li's are nice, I like that Lian Li is focusing on the 140mm size, which I believe is the best size to invest in. As we know, 120mm has been the upgraders standard, all the nicer fans are made in that size. Times are changing though, I believe that the size to invest in is now 140mm. 180mm is just something SIlverstone is doing for the time being. But with 140mm you can just upgrade your case and move your nice fans over.

For my FT02 I'm going to buy 5 Noctua NF-14 140mm fans. These fans can be adjusted to mount in 140mm or 120mm holes. I'm putting three on the bottom intakes, one for the top exhaust, and one in the lower front drive bays for extra flow. If this configuration does not grow on me, I can just move my fans to another case.

I emailed Noctua about the flat orientation placement and this is the response I got:

"The SSO-Bearing employed in our fans uses an additional magnet on the backside and was designed to resist the additional load in horizontal operation. Running the fan horizontally blowing upwards puts more stress on the bearing and *can* thus result in minor vibrations and a slightly increased noise emission. This can only be perceived in very quiet environments and from a very close distance though and it doesn't have any significant effect on the fans performance or long-term stability. We thus grant the full 6 years warranty for fans that have been used blowing upwards, so there is nothing you'd need to worry about."

Now keep in mind I change my mind like I change my CPU Coolers. My FT02 preorder is just that, a preorder that can be cancelled, as they don't charge until it ships. I have high hopes for the new 140mm Noctua NF-14 Fan. I'm also picking up the Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler, it shipping to me as I type this. It also packs in the NF-14, so I will get to hear that fan in a flat position before my FT02 is due to ship. I will pick out another case if need be though I think I will like this setup. While Silverstone has bigger stock fans, I like the technology of the Noctua's a bit more and I see these fans as a case spanning investement I can use in more than one case. You can read about the Noctua NF-14 here...

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=33&lng=en

and the SSO Bearing tech in their fans here...

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=sso_bearing&lng=en

 

[yenniedn]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - it's been a long night and I'm too many beers deep to really entertain this discussion . . . BUT, all I do want to point out from the last dozen or so posts is that I haven't contributed to this thread is quite some time and the random quotes that coconutbuy pinpointed was me talking about the ORIGINAL Raven case vs. the LL B70 and NOT the RV02 (which is what I have now). The RV01 and RV02 are entirely different animals - and the RV02 is a HUGE improvement from the original.

When I'm a little more sober tomorrow, I'll revisit what has been discussed here - but just wanted to point out the quotes might have been used incorrectly.

 

[WorldExclusive]

I've haven't seen a Silverstone case drop much in price over time. Cooler Master case prices drop substantially after a few months, but Silverstone cases hold their value. That a good thing from a quality and reseller POV. A bad thing for the person who is waiting for the price to drop below $200. This case would be a steal @ $230 shipped. Just being honest. I wanted this case also, but it's hard to justify the extra cost over my current case that cools like the Arctic Circle.

Either way it goes, if you want something you have every right to get it. I see many people who love this case would agree. It would be nice if Silverstone bit the bullet on this one. IMO pricing a case so close to the Corsair 800D and $50 more than the ATCS 840, also with all the Lian Li cases in-between is risky. That's giving the customer too many strong alternatives. RV02 is positioned correctly @ $179.

 

[coconutboy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - it's been a long night and I'm too many beers deep to really entertain this discussion . . . BUT, all I do want to point out from the last dozen or so posts is that I haven't contributed to this thread is quite some time and the random quotes that coconutbuy pinpointed was me talking about the ORIGINAL Raven case vs. the LL B70 and NOT the RV02 (which is what I have now). The RV01 and RV02 are entirely different animals - and the RV02 is a HUGE improvement from the original.

When I'm a little more sober tomorrow, I'll revisit what has been discussed here - but just wanted to point out the quotes might have been used incorrectly.

Ahhh, my mistake sorry mang. I'll edit my above post so someone doesn't get the wrong impression. I have seen other owners of the RV02 saying the performance wasn't as good as they expected, but I definitely didn't mean to twist your words. I'll edit now ASAP.

 

[acheleus]

Hey Sylar,

I am with you in many ways, love the case looks and potential for great air cooling, but the stock fans will have to go. My thoughts on the fan upgrade would be to go with the Silverstone FM181 which is a 1300 RPM 180mm dual ball bearing fan that even if it only puts out half its rated CFM (rated at 150 CFM) would be more than those 140mm Noctuas (rated at 65 CFM). So what is your thinking on the 140mm Noctua?

 

[coconutboy]

Just to be clear, for all my criticisms of the FT02 and its pricing (from one random etailer), it's still my first or 2nd pick, but at ~$50-70 more than my g/f's first two choices, both of which are excellent cases that she finds more attractive looking, it's going to be a tough sell for me to convince her. Especially when I, too, like her top two choices (CM 840 ATCS and LL pc-b25f). Kinda sucks for me, because my next gaming rig will be water cooled, so I won't touch the FT02, but I'd really love to have one around the house just so I can tinker w/ it and try stuff.

I personally think anything above a CM 840 at $200 US delivered is above mass market in this economy! I don't think we are the mass market.

$200? You're way off. The overwhelming majority of PC enthusiasts spend less than $100 on their PC chassis. This list of the top 20 most reviewed cases at newegg shows just 5 cases that cost over $100, and one of those is $109. Expand that list to the top 50 and you'll see 12 cases over $100. Of those top 50 cases, how many are over $200? Zero. Now in fairness, at their initial time of release, 3-4 of those cases did cost over $200 and over time they dropped in price, but the point should be clear. Those of us in this thread looking to buy the FT02 are the extremists, the fringe, a niche market. Even most other computer enthusiasts think we're nuts just like how the heavy majority of PC gamers won't touch $200+ vid cards.

I like that Lian Li is focusing on the 140mm size, which I believe is the best size to invest in.

Same with me, I try to stick w/ 12-14cm, although cases like the FT02 and CM 840 are so yummy, I'm willing to take the risk on the larger fans. Also, THANK YOU for posting that Noctua email. If we do pick up the FT02, my g/f will be running stock fans, but it's good to know we've got solid alternatives. I just hope the stock fans are good for at least 4-5 years or else this ~$250 case will become a lot more expensive. Should that happen, my woman will give me hell, I can hear it now. "you mean we spent over $200 freakin' dollars on a damn case, and you're saying we gotta spend more because it broke? You can forget about buying a new vid card!" Yes, she has me by the balls I admit it, but she makes more money than I do and is paying for both our new gaming rigs soooo.

2. Postive Pressure is ummm... a positve feature...

...3. Above average intake fan area.

I agree positive pressure is great for dust prevention in cracks, but why care about "intake fan area" if it doesn't do jack for temps? If you wanna see major intake area, pull the side off your case and stick a box fan up against it. No other form of air cooling will beat that!

4. Black inside. The PC-P80 is missing this.

5. CPU cutout. The PC-P80 is missing this.

The black interior of the FT02 is painted because PC chassis steel is ugly. But in a fully aluminum case, some/many people prefer to see the shine of their aluminum (raises hand). This is subjective. And the pc-p80 is not the latest and greatest LL case w/ every hip feature. The ~$195 Lian Li pc-a70f and some other newer LL chassis have the cpu cutout and a removable mobo tray, something the FT02 lacks.

6. Wiring ease. The PSU is in a better position than with most cases. Wire routes are nice here.

I concur that the cable routing/cutouts are awesome in the FT02, but some owners of the Raven 2 complain that cable runs from the PSU to the hdds/odds can be tough. As always, it depends on your PSU.

7. I like the Unibody Aluminum. I like the Steel. Rigitiy Rigity Rigity.

My apologies for being a grammar nazi, but if you're gonna emphasize the word 3 times in a row, please, at least spell it right. The word is ri-gid-i-ty. That aside, yeah, the unibody frame is very sexy. I do like the "C" of the FT02 and TJ07 more than the "U" of the FT02, but that's subjective and would require a different design for bottom-to-top cooling.

9. Filters. Every case that does not have this feature fails.

So true, and not only do the FT02/RV02 have filters, but they're actually pretty good! By comparison, in many cases w/ fan filters, I use stuff like this to replace them. This is a MAJOR selling point for me because we leave our windows open in my home.

11. And you can secure the PC via a lock around that ski leg foot. Kewl.

lol

13. Excellent GPU and CPU cooling ability.

Depends on your mobo/layout/components. Most (but not all) of the testing by people who actually own the RV02 has shown that while the FT02/RV02 design looks perfect on paper, reality is you can buy another chassis like the Antec 900/p193/CM Storm Sniper/LL pc-a70f/etc, undervolt the fans to 5v or 7v, and get the same performance/noise ratio as the Raven 2 . I know our brains all want to think this bottom-to-top design is some crazy cooling monster, but that's not reality unless you're willing to replace the fans and get noisy.

 

[Trigeminal]

I have had concerns about mounting cpu cooler fans in the horizontal plane and glad to hear noctua says this is fine. It seems more and more cases have some intake that is horizontal so I am not overly concerned about this issue.

Yes, coconutboy, we here are all on the enthuasists side. Frankly I don't plan to sweat the $220ish with shipping, anything above that and I will actually reconsider. Hell, we know what we want and we'll likely choose based on that, but I wish there was easier (read cheapier) way to get the better CFM fans without paying $75-90 on top of this price.

I already have a plan for my mods, nothing major, but the added cost of an inside window alone also raises the price. Then picking up the all black expansion covers add more still. Frankly, it looks like this is going to cost me $300 or more all said without the better fans. I am hoping silverstone does not gouge the first lot customers and recognizes that a good price on this can make more profit from volume.

 

[JohnHind]

I must admit that my initial impression that SilverStone know what they are talking about on cooling took a major knock when I read the instructions in the RV02 manual for installing a water cooling radiator. They actually supply brackets to mount a radiator on top of the two fans under the motherboard!

Brilliant! You invest in an expensive water cooling set up and then you use it to pre-heat your cooling air and blow it right back onto the motherboard! What genius thought that was a good idea?

 

[Trigeminal]

I must admit that my initial impression that SilverStone know what they are talking about on cooling took a major knock when I read the instructions in the RV02 manual for installing a water cooling radiator. They actually supply brackets to mount a radiator on top of the two fans under the motherboard!

Brilliant! You invest in an expensive water cooling set up and then you use it to pre-heat your cooling air and blow it right back onto the motherboard! What genius thought that was a good idea?

No other spot for an internal radiator. There are other bigger issues for watercooling. For example if you mount over the existing fans or replace the fans you likely have even less space video cards. But really this is not a watercooling case, if you want that get the 800D. This is a great/amazing air cooling case.

 

[SylarPowers]

Hey Sylar,

I am with you in many ways, love the case looks and potential for great air cooling, but the stock fans will have to go. My thoughts on the fan upgrade would be to go with the Silverstone FM181 which is a 1300 RPM 180mm dual ball bearing fan that even if it only puts out half its rated CFM (rated at 150 CFM) would be more than those 140mm Noctuas (rated at 65 CFM). So what is your thinking on the 140mm Noctua?

Ah, the mythical PC Fan ratings system. The problem is that companies don't measure this number in the same way. It's like ratings for speaker systems, they don't really give you the full picture if you ask me. Noctua didn't want to give up my hopes by stating their 140mm fan was better than a 180mm fan for temps, they suggested I test both out to see, a humble response to be sure. I could see size trumping Noctua quality, but I could also imagine the reverse happening as well. There was this great web article on this from Bit-Tech here and there various podcasts (some as guests) were revealing.

Check out this podcast, skip ahead to listion to time index 33min-46min, they start talking about the 800D, the Raven 2, TJ07, TJ10 and PC-X1000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x23qyH3Lp2I&feature=channel

And this fan article mentioning that there is a huge difference in air flow even between all 120mm fans.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2009/09/28/what-s-the-best-case-fan/1

That Silverstone FM181 Fan is interesting, it was on my radar, I would like to order one in to test it out. Yet my impression is that Noctua is a great company. Their fans might not be the absolute best, but they might last longer and use more advanced tech. I mean, they have magnets and SSO bearings! I could be sweept up in marking lures, but I'm impressed with Nocuta's website, which has a vast array of tech articles detailing their products.

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=produkte&lng=en

I will admit, I am having second thoughts on my order due to my utter dependance on these two fans working out for me. Beyond the Silverstone FM181 and the Noctua NF-14P, not too many fans will work well in this flat blowing up postion. So I cancelled my preorder for now. I love this case, but I may not pick it up after all. Coconutboy is right in that this may not be the best case to mod out with your own fans.

I might reorder up the Lian Li PC-X1000 actually. It had a slight RIGIDITY frame sway with the doors off in handling it (I know I suck at spelling lol), but that all 140mm fan setup was second to none. With the (exceptionally thick I might add) doors on it was much more solid and it was pretty much the perfect case except that it was a bit on the tall side and was harder to wire up nice (but not impossible with extension wires). I only returned it due to the high price, that frame issue (which in retrospect I can live with, its not bad really) and I was lured towards a possible FT02 purchase. While I have been a big supporter of the FT02, I think that Lian Li PC-X1000 might of been a keeper for me. It's a hundred US more than the FT02 and does not work well with water cooling, but if you can live with those things, here is the best review I know of.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2009/09/02/lian-li-tyr-pc-x1000-case-review/1

So to sum up, I think the FT02 is still nice, the unibody is the bomb, but I want an all 140mm design more. So I'm currently looking at Lian Li's 140mm designs to find my best option. Might wait until CES hits in January for new designs.

 

[JohnHind]

No other spot for an internal radiator ... But really this is not a watercooling case ... This is a great/amazing air cooling case.

Agreed - so why claim it is and waste money supplying pointless brackets for the purpose? I notice from the PDF referenced above that the FT02 is billed as "Supports liquid cooling radiator mounting" so they are still pushing this.

 

[WorldExclusive]

No other spot for an internal radiator. There are other bigger issues for watercooling. For example if you mount over the existing fans or replace the fans you likely have even less space video cards. But really this is not a watercooling case, if you want that get the 800D. This is a great/amazing air cooling case.

Forget about water-cooling in this case. We have to remove the fan grill to fit the 5970.
I remember cleary that the fan grill keeps the air flow going straight up. Taking the fan grill off will decrease performance. Those fan grills were specially made for this case. That's why the fans and grills shouldn't be removed.

It looks like Silverstone is committed to this design. The video cards could reach 13" next year, so I guess a RV03 and a FT03 will be made. I would like to see this reach 24" in height and better mounting for the radiator. With the extra space at the bottom, the rad could be turned on it's side, like in the TJ07. The hot air from the rad would be pushed outside the case instead of inside the case. So the main components will still benefit from the bottom 180mm fans, and the WC kit will be isolated at the bottom. Whether they call it a TJ08 or FT03, I would gladly pay $300 for it. Better design IMO.

In short, just take the TJ07 and turn the motherboard 90 degrees so it can fit 14" expansion cards, place the rad at the bottom on it's side and they will have a winner.

 

[SylarPowers]

I just wanted to mention that my thought processes are just mine and I'm just a man, not a PC case scientist or superman. I have been wrong in the past and I will be wrong yet again. But my semi-educated guess is that I would like a Lian Li 140mm fan design more at this time. The PC-X1000 and other Lian Li 140mm designs are nice, just as Silverstone's TJ11 will be someday. For me to even be talking this much about the FT02 means it's already a very fine case to buy. Both great companies that make very nice cases. And your YMMV.

 

[Imperceptible]

Hey Sylar,

I am with you in many ways, love the case looks and potential for great air cooling, but the stock fans will have to go. My thoughts on the fan upgrade would be to go with the Silverstone FM181 which is a 1300 RPM 180mm dual ball bearing fan that even if it only puts out half its rated CFM (rated at 150 CFM) would be more than those 140mm Noctuas (rated at 65 CFM). So what is your thinking on the 140mm Noctua?

I was looking at the SilverStone fans too, but it looks like they can get pretty loud in the high RPMs. I personally will most probably get 4 NF-P14's (3 bottom, 1 top) and a NH-D14 which comes with an NF-P14 and NF-P12. That way the cpu cooler should have a tunnel affect with 2 fans on the cooler facing upwards and 1 on the top of the case above the cpu cooler. I'll have to keep an eye for for reviews.

 

[SylarPowers]

I was looking at the SilverStone fans too, but it looks like they can get pretty loud in the high RPMs. I personally will most probably get 4 NF-P14's (3 bottom, 1 top) and a NH-D14 which comes with an NF-P14 and NF-P12. That way the cpu cooler should have a tunnel affect with 2 fans on the cooler facing upwards and 1 on the top of the case above the cpu cooler. I'll have to keep an eye for for reviews.

This seems... familiar... lol. My NH-D14 is on the way, I can't wait. I wonder how much money I just made Noctua here. Ironic cus I am going a different route myself. However I am definatly getting some NF-14Ps in my next case. I'll call it Project Noctua Ninja. Add ninja to anything and it sounds better

For example:

"Are you a bus driver?"
"No... I'm a NINJA Bus Driver!"

 

[acheleus]

I was looking at the SilverStone fans too, but it looks like they can get pretty loud in the high RPMs. I personally will most probably get 4 NF-P14's (3 bottom, 1 top) and a NH-D14 which comes with an NF-P14 and NF-P12. That way the cpu cooler should have a tunnel affect with 2 fans on the cooler facing upwards and 1 on the top of the case above the cpu cooler. I'll have to keep an eye for for reviews.

First my thanks to Sylar for the reference to some good discussions and articles on the subject. Greatly appreciated.

Imperceptible, my thought is the FM181 is still an adjustable fan so when I am doing general computing that is not that demanding I will crank them down and then crank them up with a fan controller when gaming. When gaming I have headphones on or speakers cranked up so fan noise is not an issue. I have been hoping to see more user reviews on new egg but the first one reports that the fan is relatively quiet with good air flow but it is only one review. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835220035 I am almost set on this so I will report back with my findings for everyone as soon as I get my hands on these.

As to the case, I am set on this case as it simply is the best looking case out there in my opinion and I think I can make the cooling work for a gaming machine without having an ugly side fan. Sure the cooling may not be as good as we think it should be but I think it will be good enough with modified cooling fans. And hopefully we will get more 180mm fan options.

As for Noctua, they do make great stuff, in fact I really like the new Noctua NH-D14 CPU cooler, and I will most likely add a NF-P14 for an exhaust fan as well.

 

[Imperceptible]

This seems... familiar... lol. My NH-D14 is on the way, I can't wait. I wonder how much money I just made Noctua here. Ironic cus I am going a different route myself. However I am definatly getting some NF-14Ps in my next case.

lol, I did read your post but I had already decided to do that setup ever since I found out that the bottom fans can be replaced with 140/120mm fans. My current case has 5 NF-12P fans (2 on the U12P cooler) and 1 NF-S12B FLX and I'm extremely happy with the noise level. My current case is a CoolerMaster Stacker 831 and is about 60cm away on the floor beside me. But I'm sick of the amount of dust that gets inside it so I'm really looking forward to the Fortress FT02 (Black - No Window Please ). With regards to that cooler, it seems to have excellent cooling results.

The first review of it is here: http://translate.google.com/transla...s/37/n-437.html&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Imperceptible, my thought is the FM181 is still an adjustable fan so when I am doing general computing that is not that demanding I will crank them down and then crank them up with a fan controller when gaming...................................As to the case, I am set on this case as it simply is the best looking case out there in my opinion and I think I can make the cooling work for a gaming machine without having an ugly side fan. Sure the cooling may not be as good as we think it should be but I think it will be good enough with modified cooling fans. And hopefully we will get more 180mm fan options.

Yeah that's true. What I'm hoping to possibly see is someone to do a case review and while testing the cooling performance, swap out the bottom fans for those FM181's. That or getting the FM181's to a fairly quiet noise level and seeing how well the airflow is. I'm so eager to see how well the CPU cooling is with the modified case fans and NH-D14 cooler with its 2 fans since there will literally be 4 fans top to bottom in line with the cpu area.

 

[SylarPowers]

Mmmm.... all this recent Noctua talk makes me want to follow threw on my FT02/Noctua plan. Ahh. I will have to sleep on it.

 

[E.T]

10. Speaking of the HAF, it cools well due to it's huge side fan

Side fan is equally prone to increase temperatures than lower them because it's serious disruption to laminar airflow (something often lacked by gamer cases) inside the case and its airflow doesn't have any clear "eggress" route because of motherboard blocking the way.
Its result is really same as that of simultaneous green light for every direction in crossroad or some deciding to go on their own way in military parade: "Charlie Foxtrot".

My thoughts on the fan upgrade would be to go with the Silverstone FM181 which is a 1300 RPM 180mm dual ball bearing fan that even if it only puts out half its rated CFM (rated at 150 CFM) would be more than those 140mm Noctuas (rated at 65 CFM). So what is your thinking on the 140mm Noctua?

That fan specs are all BS except size and RPM.

Oh, and for that ideal fan size...
Because of end of longer blades having higher linear velocity bigger fan needs to keep RPM lower for keeping turbulence noise under control. And downside of lower RPM just happens to be lower static pressure meaning same restriction (impedance/back pressure) causes bigger loss of airflow from free air result.

...
Brilliant! You invest in an expensive water cooling set up and then you use it to pre-heat your cooling air and blow it right back onto the motherboard! What genius thought that was a good idea?

That's normal behavior of marketdroids.
And also way too common in consumers...
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
-Bertrand Russell

I think I can make the cooling work for a gaming machine without having an ugly side fan.

It's very easy if you just follow some basic rules and logic.
Side fan (or extra holes) isn't any Jesus regardless what those marketdroids and their parrot flocks keeps yelling:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14713412&postcount=5
(oh and that case is HAF)

 

[SylarPowers]

So I still have my FT02 preorder going for the time being, I don't have to decide between the Silverstone FT02 and Lian Li PC-X1000 today. At this point I don't care which I get as long as I can make up my mind! This decision could tear me in two if I keep thinking about it!

 

[SylarPowers]

You know what? To hell with sitting on the fence. I'm going with the Lian Li PC-X1000. It has issues too, just like the Silverstone FT02. Better the devil you know. I know the depth of the Lian Li will fit on my desk. I know the GPU cooling works wonders in the Lian Li PC-X1000, even with stock 5x140mm fans, no need to second guess. I can live with that choice. Still going to load it up with my Noctua NH-D14 and 5x140mm Noctua NF-14Ps though

 

[acheleus]

You know what? To hell with sitting on the fence. I'm going with the Lian Li PC-X1000. It has issues too, just like the Silverstone FT02. Better the devil you know. I know the depth of the Lian Li will fit on my desk. I know the GPU cooling works wonders in the Lian Li PC-X1000, even with stock 5x140mm fans, no need to second guess. I can live with that choice. Still going to load it up with my Noctua NH-D14 and 5x140mm Noctua NF-14Ps though

That is a great case and it really is nice that we have so many choices. For me it is not really the price but rather what I like. This is the first time I decided to buy a nice case and I have looked high and low for a case that I really like aesthetically and has reasonably good air cooling. (I have zero interest in water cooling). The air cooling in that Lian looks fantastic, but the height of it is just too much for me. Good luck.

 

[Trigeminal]

That is a great case and it really is nice that we have so many choices. For me it is not really the price but rather what I like. This is the first time I decided to buy a nice case and I have looked high and low for a case that I really like aesthetically and has reasonably good air cooling. (I have zero interest in water cooling). The air cooling in that Lian looks fantastic, but the height of it is just too much for me. Good luck.

This is me to a tee:
1st time really splurging on a case.
Love the aesthetics.
Want great air cooling with no dust. No interest in watercooling.

 

[acheleus]

The first review of it is here: http://translate.google.com/transla...s/37/n-437.html&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Yeah that's true. What I'm hoping to possibly see is someone to do a case review and while testing the cooling performance, swap out the bottom fans for those FM181's. That or getting the FM181's to a fairly quiet noise level and seeing how well the airflow is. I'm so eager to see how well the CPU cooling is with the modified case fans and NH-D14 cooler with its 2 fans since there will literally be 4 fans top to bottom in line with the cpu area.

Thanks for the link to that review, and it looks like that cooler will be a great choice. Yes it is a bit expensive but it is cheaper than the Megahalem after adding two good fans.