Resolved.

[Kenjiwing]

I dont understand the gpu concern with the ft01.. I have one and my temps are great. All you have to do is remove the top 3 hd enclosures and you have a huge fucking 180mm fan blowing directly on your graphics card...

 

[SylarPowers]

I dont understand the gpu concern with the ft01.. I have one and my temps are great. All you have to do is remove the top 3 hd enclosures and you have a huge fucking 180mm fan blowing directly on your graphics card...

It's not that I think the FT01 has bad GPU cooling, just that the FT02 and TJ10 offer notibly better GPU cooling solutions on paper. Regardless of fan size, there is more close proximity GPU cooling for latter two - so the heat is blown off the GPU more directly, not just carried away. While the TJ10 does not have a 140mm fan, the 120mm fan is placed at point blank GPU location. Not to mention less obstruction - even with half the HD racks removed on the FT01, there is still a third or so of HD rack obstruction. And that is saying I don't mind losing half my HD space, which I do. Everything I have read on forums and reviews lead me to believe that the FT01 is just not as capable as the other two in this area. Which again does not mean bad, just not as uber good as the other two in stock configuration. It's only my personal conclusion, so YMMV. I read the FT01's upsides is that it costs less, has unibody design for rigitiy and has awesome CPU cooling ability - this is again because that top fan is unobstructed at point blank range. Proximity makes all the difference IMHO, even more than fan size. You could add some adapters to aid the FT01's cooling, but these are of the PCI Slot/Front Bay after market variety, which are not as sleek to me. You could add a fan on the other side of those FT01 HD racks, in the middle of the case to help blow the fresh air more directly on the GPUs, but this does not increase the number of intakes.

I would also imagine at first that theTJ10's CPU cooling would be not as good the other two Silverstone cases, as there is only one 120mm instake for the Mobo chamber. Yet you can mount a Mega Shadow/Megahalems/TRUE CPU Cooler with two 120mm fans, then reverse the rear 120mm exhaust into an intake, then just let the top two 120mm fans serve as the exhausts. Makes it more towards positive pressure anyway (equal pressure?). Or you could try reversing the top fans instead possibly. So it's cooling still impresses in a timeless way, however the FT02 has THREE 180/120 intakes with a straighter air path, which seems a better solution to me.

Of course the FT02 brings many other features to the table, which is what everyone here is excited about. The best of which is its better layout for wiring and potentual to cool all the parts equally with a shorter direct path of air. Stack cooling FTW! I would not be unhappy with a FT01/TJ10 in a Non-FT02 world, but thankfully I don't have to live in that world! Would I upgrade from the FT01/TJ10 to the FT02? Yes, but it would be a want instead of a need, as the FT01/TJ10 are fine cases too. For the new buyer, I would rate them like this:

1. FT02
2. TJ10
3. FT01

 

[SylarPowers]

Hey, we are famously quoted here!

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=825838

=)

 

[Tony Ou]

I want to end up with both a solid panel and a windowed one. Will both be offered separate, or will you only offer the windowed one separate?

Oh, and I bet the silver PCI slot cover is just a cost measure. Would be nice to have a special edition that makes every PCI slot cover, screw and wire black, but having the inside black is the hard part. So I'm glad for that, I can fix it up from here like.

Sorry, currently we have no plans to sell FT02/RV02 side panels as a separate product. But we do have black nickel-coated slot covers (which look very nice) for sale separately:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=aeroslots&area=

 

[Tony Ou]

Regarding GPU cooling, our internal tests have shown that a stock FT01 is superior to a stock TJ10. I think there is a bit of misconception that FT01's GPU cooling is weak due to its hard drive cages getting in the way of the front fan. You have to remember those two 180mm intake fans inside the FT01 are rated at 100CFM each so there is a lot of air being pushed through the case. Compared this to TJ10’s 120mm fans which are rated at 53CFM and you can see why FT01 can cool better.

 

[Trigeminal]

Regarding GPU cooling, our internal tests have shown that a stock FT01 is superior to a stock TJ10. I think there is a bit of misconception that FT01's GPU cooling is weak due to its hard drive cages getting in the way of the front fan. You have to remember those two 180mm intake fans inside the FT01 are rated at 100CFM each so there is a lot of air being pushed through the case. Compared this to TJ10’s 120mm fans which are rated at 53CFM and you can see why FT01 can cool better.

That seems right to me as well. What do your internal tests show when comparing ft01 to ft02?

 

[Trigeminal]

Sorry, currently we have no plans to sell FT02/RV02 side panels as a separate product. But we do have black nickel-coated slot covers (which look very nice) for sale separately:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=aeroslots&area=

Shame the black nickel grills don't come with the ft02, given its price.

Wish you guys did have replacement doors available, would make the prospect of a mistake on my first custom window mod seem significantly less daunting.

 

[pwrusr]

When is this case going to be released?
The links I've read say augest, but I have yet to see the case out?

 

[SylarPowers]

Regarding GPU cooling, our internal tests have shown that a stock FT01 is superior to a stock TJ10. I think there is a bit of misconception that FT01's GPU cooling is weak due to its hard drive cages getting in the way of the front fan. You have to remember those two 180mm intake fans inside the FT01 are rated at 100CFM each so there is a lot of air being pushed through the case. Compared this to TJ10’s 120mm fans which are rated at 53CFM and you can see why FT01 can cool better.

Interesting. I can see that, sure. But is this with all 5 fans on the TJ10 populated? The plain jane TJ10 has a few fans "missing". How does the TJ10 Nvidia Edition or the ESA Edition fare for example? Interesting though. I think my dad would like a FT01 over a FT02, he digs smaller mid towers.

 

[Trigeminal]

When is this case going to be released?
The links I've read say augest, but I have yet to see the case out?

He answered that last week. Basically due to quality control, re-enginerring, and production delays, it has been pushed bac from August. Last week he said we should began to see retail availability next week, which is now this week.

 

[Silver5656]

On 11/02 he said "The FT02 are shipping this week from the factory".....as to when we'll see them at retailers......who knows......but i need this asap lol

 

[Trigeminal]

On 11/02 he said "The FT02 are shipping this week from the factory".....as to when we'll see them at retailers......who knows......but i need this asap lol

Good point. If the factory is in tawian, I'm pretty sure it is, shipping could take a while. Any date for it to show up at retail tony?

 

[coconutboy]

Huh. I usually lurk at the [H] but I guess it's been so long since I posted, probably 2004 or so, that not only did I lose my old forum account, but I got my old nick back. Sweet!

Anyhow, found some pics of the FT02 in the wild, albeit not in North America/Europe/Aussieland. Assuming Silverstone ships these cases by sea freight, I'm (blindly) guessing we won't see these on shelves for another week if not more.

Edit- also notice that the price in Japan is mentioned as 27,800 ~ 28,800 yen. That's over $300 in the US. Hopefully prices will be lower outside Japan because if this case is priced too high, methinks a lot of people will instead consider other alternatives from Antec/Cooler Master/Lian Li etc.

 

[OrAnGe]

So having trouble bending a piece of aluminum has increased the price from $200 ish to $300ish. Interesting. Well that will suck if that is the case... no pun intended..

 

[Tobe]

Please no more then $220!!!

 

[Trigeminal]

Huh. I usually lurk at the [H] but I guess it's been so long since I posted, probably 2004 or so, that not only did I lose my old forum account, but I got my old nick back. Sweet!

Anyhow, found some pics of the FT02 in the wild, albeit not in North America/Europe/Aussieland. Assuming Silverstone ships these cases by sea freight, I'm (blindly) guessing we won't see these on shelves for another week if not more.

Edit- also notice that the price in Japan is mentioned as 27,800 ~ 28,800 yen. That's over $300 in the US. Hopefully prices will be lower outside Japan because if this case is priced too high, methinks a lot of people will instead consider other alternatives from Antec/Cooler Master/Lian Li etc.

Nice find. It is absolutley beautiful, but you are definately right, more than $220 and there are going to be a ton of people choosing other cases. Hell, right now there are too many good to great alternatives at or below $150 (from awesome manufacturers like lian-li, thermaltake, and antec). It really should be right at $199 or sales will be quite low, especially with the economy. I love this case and talk it up to everyone I know, but I'll likely wait for a MIR or sale before odering this if it is over $200.

 

[Trigeminal]

Anyone know if there is a way to make embeded photos show up, or do you have to click the link?

 

[patriot71]

Hi Kenjiwing, we have 5870X2's CAD drawing and it is 12.1 inches long excluding the end-plate (the steel part that screws into the expansion slot).

So the FT02 and RV02 can fit the 5870X2 with middle fan's plastic fan grille removed.

We also have the 5870 cards and they are 11.5 inches.

Hopefully we'll get the 5870X2 soon so we can take a few photos of them installed in our case and post them on our website.

I like the concept of this case, I really do. My only concern is GPUs that are longer than 12.1 inches. There may not be any right now, but video cards are not going to be getting any smaller anytime soon.

 

[Tobe]

Need.....now....with no window please!

Release date should be any day now right....right?!

 

[SylarPowers]

I would hope that it's not over 250 USD delivered to my house. I would think that would be pushing it. Oh I would buy it anyway, but I would not be happy about it.

 

[SylarPowers]

do the top usb ports look different to anyone? Why is that "Tab" there behind them in those pics?

 

[coconutboy]

Trigeminal- you can change settings in your CP to be able to see pics w/o clicking links.

Sylar- good eye on that. It's definitely different than the prototypes they showed off earlier. Looks like Silverstone added a sliding cover to keep dust outta the ports. Spiffy! Here's a pic of the old prototypes.

 

[coconutboy]

Forgot to say this earlier, but thanks to Tony and the other Silverstone reps who have been hitting up some of the fora to keep us enthusiasts informed. It definitely makes a difference that you people and your company keep the hardware community in the loop. That said, case junkies are a fickle bunch and we're definitely into the details, so please bear w/ our complaints/nitpicking as we're mainly interested in seeing product lines improved. Humor us and your companies will get our money and hopefully give you a raise! But if your companies fail to recognize our needs, suffer as we buy your competitor's products!

Wow, lots of discussion on the price!

Well, the prices announced in Europe yesterday are 180 EUR for non-window version and 189 EUR with window. I would expect our US office to set FT02's MSRP at around USD $220 ~ $230 range.

over 200 = too much for me.. id rather go with full alum like my ft01 which I love to death anyway

I like the FT02, but more than the ~£140 currently charged for the FT01 is too much.

I was hoping for £125.

I was really hoping it would be less expensive than the FT01, but I read that it is actually going to be slightly more. I am hoping it will not be selling for any more than $250 AUD considering that it is due to be ~$220 USD. If it was any more expensive than $250 I would have to reconsider my choice, as it puts it into competition with arguably better Lian Li cases in the $300-350 price range. If it is too expensive in Australia I think it will put off a lot of people, which would be a shame as it's a fantastic looking kit.

...more than $220 and there are going to be a ton of people choosing other cases. Hell, right now there are too many good to great alternatives at or below $150 (from awesome manufacturers like lian-li, thermaltake, and antec). It really should be right at $199 or sales will be quite low, especially with the economy. I love this case and talk it up to everyone I know, but I'll likely wait for a MIR or sale before odering this if it is over $200.

I would hope that it's not over 250 USD delivered to my house. I would think that would be pushing it. Oh I would buy it anyway, but I would not be happy about it.

I've seen this same type of talk at forums all over. SilentPC, OverclockersUK, even in the Japanese and German forums. No matter how good a product is, price is usually THE major factor. Our household is very excited for this case to the point that we've had our Core i7/Radeon 5850 sitting here in their boxes waiting for a new home for ~2 months now, but that doesn't mean we're oblivious to the strong competition Silverstone faces from existing products. CES is in January and there are sure to be some excellent new cases (along w/ some uh... unusual looking designs). In 6 months or a year, the new shiny of the FT02 design will be gone and by then if the FT02's pricing hasn't been competitive enough to sustain sales, it'll be just another EOL product that got eaten alive by it's competition. I'm hoping Silverstone can manage to keep initial prices in check for early adopters, and then over time recoup their dev costs as this case sells through the roof the way the Antec 900/902 have. That hopefully will inspire Silverstone to carry over the unibody design and bottom-to-top cooling into their Temjin series which can have all the bells and whistles for watercooling etc.

 

[Trigeminal]

Trigeminal- you can change settings in your CP to be able to see pics w/o clicking links.

Sylar- good eye on that. It's definitely different than the prototypes they showed off earlier. Looks like Silverstone added a sliding cover to keep dust outta the ports. Spiffy! Here's a pic of the old prototypes.

Yeah I noticed that too. It takes a little bit axay from the slick/smooth nature of the case from that pic, but I am hotly anticipating reviews and new pics from confirmed US retail variants. Not sure about that site, but it could still be an early leaked prototype that was supposed to be "recycled". However it looks like it also has the reinforced bar/brace in the center of the top panel.

 

[coconutboy]

Hrm, don't think it's a prototype. It's supposedly the finished retail product being shown off in the Akihabara district.

 

[SylarPowers]

Yeah I noticed that too. It takes a little bit axay from the slick/smooth nature of the case from that pic, but I am hotly anticipating reviews and new pics from confirmed US retail variants. Not sure about that site, but it could still be an early leaked prototype that was supposed to be "recycled". However it looks like it also has the reinforced bar/brace in the center of the top panel.

I liked it without the slider thing look wise, but I guess it's better for dust.

Me and my Mastercard are waiting for this to come out... I decided to buy the one with the window and get me some red lighting.

 

[Silver5656]

any update on when us retailers will have this in stock?

 

[Trigeminal]

I think I would have preferred the flip up panel for audio and usb seen on the tj series over this "slider" thing, but I'll reserve judgement until I have seen more photos.

Unfortunately back to price, if I can't get it shipped for under $220, I'll be waiting to see what is at CES in Jan.

 

[Tobe]

I couldn't take it anymore!

I went out and picked up the RV02 at Fry's for 169.99. :-]

Would have preferred the FT02, however....the RV02 is very similar!

 

[Trigeminal]

I couldn't take it anymore!

I went out and picked up the RV02 at Fry's for 169.99. :-]

Would have preferred the FT02, however....the RV02 is very similar!

Have fun with it, great case. Let us know how you like it and cooling, as the internals are nearly identical.

 

[Silver5656]

i noticed as well that the rv02's have been dropping in price

 

[Tobe]

I think the only thing I will miss is the foam, but I am curious to see how it sounds /w the stock fans. . .

 

[SylarPowers]

Don't know how long we are going to wait, so I bought some RAM borrowed from my FT02 savings. I'll replace the earmarked FT02 funds next payday. I figure the case will stay about the same price, but the RAM is skyrocketing. I needed to get that volitile upgrade done as I saw a good deal. Got me some Corsair XMS3 3x2GB DDR3-1600 7-7-7-20, new style heatsinks. Should look great in my new FT02... So come out with the FT02 soon, just not this week!

 

[SylarPowers]

So I think I found my cooling/artistic stradigy for my upcoming FT02-BW. I'm betting it will cool better, but even if it does not, it will look awesome.

Going to get me 4 of Noctua's new 140mm fans, the Noctua NF-P14 FLX (they have both 120mm and 140mm mount adjustibility), vinyle dye them red, so they will look pretty unique with that roundish design, like rockets exhausting up (I'll keep the filters, but leave off the honeycomb grill). That will replace all the stock fans and give the exhaust a boost. Going to vinyle dye all the PC wires red as well. Then I am going to get Noctua's new NH-D14 CPU Cooler, red vinyle dye those fans, then add a red glow to the case with some lighting. Sounds like a plan to me. Could work on some more red accents later too. I just want some color in my case. Might do some airbrush art later on a panel. I'm pretty good once I get in a groove artistic wise. Went to art school a while back.

 

[JohnHind]

Perfecting the Stack

To my mind, the one major flaw with the implementation of the stack concept in the RV02 and FT02 is the conventional placement of the 5.75” bays. Notice that none of the pictures show drives installed in these bays: if they did it would show how badly these drives would obstruct the vertical airflow in this part of the case. Also both the cases put far too much unnecessary airflow obstructing structure around the hard drives (although the FT02 is much more intelligent in this area than the RV02).

My modification concept is to mount the 5.75” bays vertically in the area on top of the case currently occupied by the switches and connector panel. This will use a square hole cut in the steel inner chassis in which will sit a new structure I have named the “chimney” (shown in red on this Sketchup model). The chimney will accommodate one laptop CD/DVD drive and up to three standard 5.75” units, although normally only two would be fitted along with two half-height ventilation grills as shown. The chimney will be able to be inserted in any of four orientations depending on which face the user wants to designate as the “front” of the case.

Of course, normal CD/DVD drives will not work in this vertical orientation, which is the reason for the laptop drive. I have experimented with a Sony Optiarc AD-7700S-01 and confirmed it works fine with the tray opening upward. The only problem is that there is no latch to hold the tray open so disk changing becomes a two-handed operation. The full-size bays will work fine for hot-swap drive bays, fan controllers and some water cooling solutions for example.

The other improvement I’d like to make is to the fixed hard drive bays. The FT arrangement is “close but no cigar” as far as I am concerned. It should be possible to use a simple cantilever beam to support the drive along one side with no obstruction at all to the airflow. I’ve planned for four drives, up from the three in the RV and down from the five in the FT. This should leave plenty of room for airflow between the (bare) drives necessary because this airflow is cooling the chimney components as well as the hard drives themselves.

Some people have been complaining of the size of these cases, but remember that with a conventional case you have to leave a lot of room behind to accommodate wiring which is all internal to the stack design. My proposed modification also eliminates the need for space “in front” of the case. All the access is concentrated on the top of the case which reduces the overall envelope of space that is required and also is easier to reach for a floor-standing case. Indeed, the natural “front” of the case is now the face with the window in it and it will be natural to set the case against a wall rather like a storage radiator.

Someone who has already purchased a RV02 can help me here: I have scaled dimensions off photographs to make this model. The concept depends on there being free space of at least 5.75” (plus a bit for structure) between the back of the “front” panel (the steel front, not the plastic fascia) and the motherboard expansion card recess. I am pretty sure there will be enough space on the FT model, but could someone please measure this for me on the RV?

The chimney concept lends itself well to a single case design with multiple assembly options. By providing a blankable square cut-out in the “front” of the case, there could be four more available configurations, including the conventional one albeit with the current cooling problems. (The upside down one would be useless? Remember the drives can be installed either way up too so this allows the laptop drive bay to be at the bottom or the top of the stack). If this is still not enough, a blankable cut-out in the window panel would offer yet another four options! This is a total of twelve different configuration options with a single case design!

I plan on implementing these ideas myself by modifying either an RV02 or a FT02 when and if it finally becomes available. I am happy to put this concept in the public domain, and I’d be very pleased if SilverStone took it up for the RV03 and FT03. If they do, it would be a nice gesture if they gave me the first one off the production line as acknowledgement!

 

[Trigeminal]

JohnHind, I have thought of this too, and with all do respect, not many people are concerned with DVD drive cooling and that is one of the few things this might help. If you are trying to make a great case in mass production you are balancing many factors such as aesthetics, ease of install and use (which vertical cd drives do not lend themselves to), and cololing to important components (gpu, cpu, ram, and to a lesser extent harddrives). In balancing those factore, this current method is far reasonable for anything other than a mod.

That said, I'd love to see your build mod as well as temp measurements before and after.

 

[JohnHind]

with all do respect, not many people are concerned with DVD drive cooling and that is one of the few things this might help

With equal respect, you have missed my point! My objective is to improve cooling for the hard drives primarily not the DVD. As I said, installing a DVD drive horizontally will spoil the vertical air flow through the hard drives because the rising air runs into a flat obstruction and has to take a right-angle curve to the right to exit over the motherboard.

Besides, reading on my concept allows the builder a choice of 12 different arrangements of the chimney including the conventional one currently implemented.

 

[SylarPowers]

I don't think you can really cool a disc drive, they seem very closed structures that do not produce all that much heat. For example, most living room DVD players do not have any cooling and they do just fine.

Also since you could install the disc drives from the top and work your way down, the HD air cooling path will just bounce off, but it has a ways to get to that top disc drive, and it will find it's way to the nearby vents. It's not like the GPU trapping heat angles that the Corsair 800D seems to have. But what do I know, I tried to conceptualize the FT01's heat vs the TJ10, only to be corrected by the Silverstone rep

Normally the disc drives have no air blowing on them at all and the HD heat is just going over the CPU/GPU area. Seems to me that the HD air path is slightly better out of the way in the FT02, it just has to make a slight right to find some vents and that exhaust fan. With all the possitive pressure and airflow, I don't imagine an issue with my disc drive overheating

However I guess those HDs could get some heat trapped...

Kudos for thinking out of the box, but would it not be easier to just install an exhaust in the lower disc drive bays that would just suck the HD heat right out?

 

[SylarPowers]

ah, so it is the HD heat your worried about, not the disc drive heat. Makes more sense that way! I still like my front bay exhaust idea more than cutting into the top. Could you not just fashion an inside angled vent duct to massage the air to the front bay exhaust? Easy mod to do if you think about it. Was that in your diagrams? I didn't study them like.

I guess it would be cool if Silverstone crafted some path chamber for the HD heat to go straight out, but then the cost would jump like 50 dollars for perhaps only a few degrees difference at best. I dunno if that is worth it vs adding a simple front bay exhaust. Perhaps SIlverstone could fastion this front bay exhaust duct as an aftermarket add on?

If anything, I would imagine the HD Cage itself as a bigger barrior to the HD heat path, but I dunno, I'm only a Limp Gawd.

 

[JohnHind]

Could you not just fashion an inside angled vent duct to massage the air to the front bay exhaust?

The design concept of these cases is to have a straight-through air path from the bottom to the top of the case cooperating with convection to minimise the need for fan assist. Horizontal planes break this concept and require energy input to force the air against or across convection. We need to see some thermal imaging and smoke tests, but I bet there will be air turbulence and heat build-up under the DVD case (as you get with graphics cards in a conventional case).

To be honest, the aesthetics and ergonomics of the top-mounted DVD (plus I want to put a hot-swap HD bay in one of these vertical slots), appeal to me quite independently of cooling efficiency. With the case on the floor beside the desk, the top of the case is easier to reach than the "front". Plus it means you do not need regular access to any face except the top allowing the case to be packed into a tighter space. Finally, it means you can re-designate the windowed face of the case as the "front" which surely makes more sense?