Request for Advice on High-End Build

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LucidDream

n00b
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
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Hello everyone, I'm new to [H] (although I've been researching as a guest for quite a while now), and I'm planning my next build. I'll start off with the standard questions and then elaborate a little more.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming (FPS, MMO, anything). I will also work from this machine, but surely nothing a gaming rig can't do. My most specific goal is to be able to play next year's games at a very high resolution, namely FFXIV

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
5K USD, flexible. The quality of individual components and their compatibility with one another are my primary concerns

3) Where do you live?
USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
All components (case, cooling, electronics, tubes, coolant, etc... enumerated below under "Hardware")

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Likely none - possibly hard drives if anything. PSU should be sufficient (see "Hardware")

6) Will you be overclocking?
If getting the machine together hasn't worn me out, I will probably go for an OC (nothing insane)

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
2x 22" Wide at the moment. I'd like to upsize, but don't want to buy two new monitors right now. Fullscreen games only use one monitor at 1680x1050

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Most of my purchases will be made at Newegg. I also prefer Amazon or another very reputable company. Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with companies providing WC equipment. Is there a "Newegg" of WC, considering customer service, supply, and website capability?

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
RAID, SLI

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Yes, Windows Vista (this build is for Win7 and will be switched ASAP)



Brief History
I've been a computer junkie since I was 13 (will be turning 26 at the end of September). I've done countless upgrades and built a dozen or so PCs so I'm ready to make an attempt at WC. I do realize this rig isn't going to be a simple build for first-time WC but I'm planning to take the time to get everything setup properly by following best practices (waiting days if something even remotely gets wet/damp, going slow, checking things, using hose fasteners), so I am confident I can handle it... now that I've done a month of research :D

In terms of hardware, I've been debating waiting for Nvidia's 300 series to come out, but since they haven't put any kind of timeline together I guess I'm going to make the leap now and use a manufacturer step-up/upgrade program (I've specifically been looking at EVGA and BFG cards, who offer 90 and 100 day step-up programs).



Hardware

Case
Cooler Master HAF932 or Corsair 800D - I'm leaning far towards the Corsair case because of cable management, space constraints and my assumption that I need more than a single 3.120 rad. I'm up for a challenge, but the power supply I am looking at is full-size and most other cases have some kind of logistical constraint (like the big boy fan, or something else causing it to be difficult to have a second rad larger than 1.120)

Motherboard
Almost certainly EVGA X58 SLI Classified Hydro Copper, though I am open to suggestions, this board (WC and non-WC) had great reviews. Newegg was stocking the WC version, but unfortunately doesn't seem to be restocking it (or EVGA, which is also out of hydro classifieds, can't produce fast enough).

Memory
Currently thinking two pair of Corsair Dominator PC12800 (total 12GB) - I know this might be a little excessive but I often leave games windowed or am heavily multitasking, and I'd prefer to never have to think about it. Is there any conceivable reason to consider faster memory? I remember seeing some benchmarks that showed very little difference between DDR2 and DDR3, so I wonder if low vs high DDR3 even matters, even if only in terms of "futureproof"-ness

Memory Cooling
If I actually go with the full 12GB memory, am I going to need cooling? The necessity of memory cooling seems to be debated but I'd prefer to not have problems down the road

CPU
i7-975 - I know I'm submitting to evil Intel by purchasing this despite all of the less expensive chips with the same ballpark performance, but I will regret not having made the upgrade if I don't do it now

CPU Cooling Block
Danger Den MC-TDX for i7? Swiftech? EK? I'm unfamiliar with WC brands

Video Cards
Two 295s in SLI. I'm leaning towards the BFG 295, but might go with the EVGA 295 if someone has a compelling argument.

PSU
I've always had good experiences with PCP&C PSUs, will 99.9% go with the PC Power & Cooling T12W 1200W

Optical Drives
I haven't thought much about these since they're low-hanging fruit on my tree of considerations to be made

Pump
Am I going to want two different pumps (I know I need two for a dual loop, but I mean two different strengths)? Pumps and fans (and anything else required to achieve adequate cooling) are of paramount importance.

Rad
No idea what to do here. I'd really prefer to do this build all internal, but I feel confident saying a 3.120 rad isn't likely to handle an i7 and a pair of 295s. Can I get away with a 3.120 for the 295s and a 1.120 for the CPU, or will I need a 2.120 for an i7? I think a 3.120 and a 2.120 will be difficult because I'd prefer to not mount a rad in the front, causing all the inbound air to be heated. Also, Feser or Black Ice?

Res
One of the many clear, cylindrical options

Tubing
I've read Tygon is or can become "sticky" causing dust to stick to it, discoloring of the tube. That's definitely undesirable, so I suppose I'm going with MasterKleer? I'm thinking 3/8 OD


Thanks for taking the time to read, and for any suggestions you provide. I hope I haven't made any outright noob mistakes :D
 
First off for that res you don't need this kind of build. First purchase if you want to spend this kind of dough is a 30" monitor at 2560x1600. DO your homework before you buy, but most people like HP, Samung or Dell for best price performace. FYI, you don't need two. Jeeze 1 is plenty.

Then I can save you some money, If you want to go over the top, but still get bang for the buck, I would reccommend my exact rig (under $3000)..

See thread here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1449309
 
Oh ya, with Core i9 and DX11 parts from ATI and nVidia on the way in Q1 of 2010, you may want to do a less expensive build for now and use your current monitors with that. Something like and AMD CPU/Mobo with an ati 4870 or 4890 GPU. ltshiro and others do these all the time for way under $1000 and that would make you very happy with your current monitors. Then early next year... drop the hammer.
 
notsane said:
First off for that res you don't need this kind of build. First purchase if you want to spend this kind of dough is a 30" monitor at 2560x1600.
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While I certainly don't argue this is a complete overbuild, I'm just not ready for the monitors. I'm also trying to build it so that I can run a game due out a year from now, which will require more graphics processing than today's games.

Why two monitors? I need two for work. They're on an arm that supports up to 22" so if I'm thinking about replacing them... I need to replace the arm too.

My normal course of action is to upgrade my hardware, and then give my girlfriend the hand-me-down stuff (I wipe the drive and she gets a "new" computer). at some point I'll get new monitors and a new arm, but right now I just want to upgrade my PC.

I would wait for the launch of FFXIV to even do the build, but for the fact that I want to try out some of the FPS games I've missed over the past two years, and really enjoy being able to just press the "maximum settings" button. My current machine could run the said games, but not flawlessly at their maximum settings (E8400, 4GB, SSD+RAID0 10k Raptors, 8800GTS).

The difference between 3x dual-slot 285s and my 2x single-slot 295s is $300-$400 (plus a loss of 4 slots, and they would be air cooled).

You're certainly the voice of reason... I know the "smart" thing to do would be to wait till Q1 but I'm so excited I don't know if I'd be able to contain myself that long... I don't doubt Intel will be on time ("tick-tock") but I wouldn't bet my life on Nvidia's release dates :D

Edit to notsane: I did check out your build and it looks great, though one of my goals for this build is to go water. Want to loan it to me till Q1 2010?
 
LucidDream said:
You're certainly the voice of reason...
Click to expand...

Wow, you know you have it pretty bad when notsane is your voice of reason.

I understand you are pretty set on what you want and I can respect that. I still say get the 30" monitor now. I also say that a single 30" is plenty for almost any productivity task. Tey are MASSIVE, you just don't get it until you have one in front of you.

Other note, tri-sli is generally faster/better than quad due to memory/memory bandwidth issues with quad. See here:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/02/17/nvidia_geforce_gtx_295_quad_sli/

Also here is a great article about the best of the best botique builds and CPU mag is the best print source out there (Anand writes for CPU mag).

http://www.computerpoweruser.com/ed...00F9CED25&searchtype=0&WordList=&bJumpTo=True

Download the chart and you can clearly see the tri-sli rigs wipe the floor with all the quad rigs.

Good luck!
 
As far as watercooling goes, one of the best waterblocks for 1366 is Heatkiller 3 but really any would do. I did a i7+tri-SLI 285s build, all watercooled using 2 independent loops. Both loops are on PA120.3 rads with 6 fans on each, seem to be sufficient for my purposes. CM HAF932 had enough room but I did hang one of the rads outside.

here's a pic
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3254/i7classy1.jpg
 
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Could a 3.120 handle a single 295 and an i7? I'm thinking that might be the best approach to simplify my cooling situation, but if it doesn't work I will probably go with multiple 285s.

What about WC on mosfets: function, or for aesthetics? Should I look for one of those corsair-specific waterblocks, or is that definitely not necessary?
 
How high are you trying to overclock the processor? No Intel Extreme Edition processor is ever worth the money -- newer, faster, cheaper processors will be available within a year's time that would smoke the performance of the 975, and even the "entry level" Core i7 920 is a pretty good overclocker.

What are the proposed graphics requirements for FFXIV? I can't see why you would need more than one GTX 285 for a 1680x1050 resolution, and save for a few games like Crysis, even that card could be considered overkill at that resolution.

In fact, if you're that worried about that particular game, I suggest that you wait until the time that the game is supposed to arrive before you even consider buying parts for your new build.
 
notsane said:
Oh ya, with Core i9 and DX11 parts from ATI and nVidia on the way in Q1 of 2010, you may want to do a less expensive build for now and use your current monitors with that. Something like and AMD CPU/Mobo with an ati 4870 or 4890 GPU. ltshiro and others do these all the time for way under $1000 and that would make you very happy with your current monitors. Then early next year... drop the hammer.
Click to expand...

dude its not Q1 2010 its september 10, this year, the september 10 thats 6 days away. That one. The Radeon HD5870 and HD5870 X2 will be debuting and you can expect some half way decent performance improvements.
 
Unfortunately not much info is available about FFXIV, including graphics requirements or any date more specific than "2010"

i9: Q1 2010 - speculative at that
ATI 5800 Series: Confirmed prelaunch 9/10 and official launch 9/22
nvidia 300 Series: Some say with Win7, some say later... I don't see solid information

I don't think I can wait for Q1-- but I probably won't be doing anything (except prep) before late September or the first week of October.

If nvidia announces something before I order I might be able to hold off for a bit, which I suspect is likely since they'll want to prevent crazed people like myself from buying ATI's new stuff now-- though I probably wouldn't buy an ATI card. If nvidia stays silent I'm either going to do the build with 200 series card(s) or jump off a bridge :eek:

Everything about the i9 and the new generation GPUs looks impressive (I happen to be an nvidia fan myself, but to each his own). My original intention was to wait for nvidia's 300 to hit, but after months of checking Google for news on a weekly basis, I've pretty much succumb to the iwantanewcomputer plague. The reason I was going so big is because I don't want to have to deal with the upgrade process when the time inconveniently arrives.

Since I have half a dozen or so FPS games to go through, I do want to do this build somewhat prior to the release of FFXIV so I can enjoy them without rushing. If I wait for Q1, I may have to shorten the list. While that wouldn't be the end of the world, it isn't what I had in mind :(

I can see why it's a bad time to do this, but I could take advantage of the step-up program if a better graphics card becomes available. If I pull the trigger in a month, and nvidia is slow to catch ATI, I may get burned; but if not I could go with a 920 and a GTX295 until the GPU (hopefully step up) and CPU come out. The i9 is x58/1366 compatible, so I could upgrade and use the 920 for my future HTPC (next project).
 
^^

nvidia is supposed to be hosting a press event on September 10th also, which is supposed to be based around the 300 series from what i've read, so id say it would be your best bet to at least wait till Thursday before you order :D
 
When is FF14 anyway?

Seriously, its best to wait for the next gen GPUs.
You're gonna be wanting to upgrade when the roll out anyway which is very soon.
And forget SLI GTX 295, quad SLI scales like crap anyways.

I really hope you're upgrading to a 30' soon. The day you get it I will guarantee you will regret that you've been sticking with a 'puny' 22' 1680x1050 all this time...

Oh, and you might wanna add a Hard Drive in that build :)
 
FF14 is "2010" - that's all. More info coming in September (rumors of a beta).

I will wait (impatiently) for news later this week and reevaluate the situation. Hopefully Nvidia has an idea for a date they can commit to, and not just some fluff about what they're working on. Either way I won't go with dual 295s, I will either go with a 300-series if I can wait, or a single 295 for simplicity (if I can't wait), or multiple 285s if I'm going to build it soon and not modify it for a few years.

I've still got other things I can straighten out while I wait, most of it is related to water cooling (rad qty/size/brand, tubing). I'm also not sure which case I'm going with, nor if I'm going to mod my case (probably not if I go with the 800D).

Ideal situation would be Nvidia chip dropping before Xmas (how about October? lol)... everyone cross your fingers.
 
You've gotten excellent advice so far. Best heed them. Especially the CPU. I mean think of it like this way: Car A and Car B are exactly the same cars but Car B is $6000 more and only 1MPH faster. That's the only differences. You're basically paying an extra $6000 for just ONE EXTRA MILE increase in speed. Exactly what you're doing with the i7 975. I mean, FFS, the dual GTX 295 are reasonable compared to buying a i7 975.
 
save the cash and be ready to upgrade to a 6-core if they turn out to be any good.

edit: which you already pretty much said yourself.
 
Danny Bui said:
You've gotten excellent advice so far. Best heed them. Especially the CPU. I mean think of it like this way: Car A and Car B are exactly the same cars but Car B is $6000 more and only 1MPH faster. That's the only differences. You're basically paying an extra $6000 for just ONE EXTRA MILE increase in speed. Exactly what you're doing with the i7 975. I mean, FFS, the dual GTX 295 are reasonable compared to buying a i7 975.
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree here.
A 975 3.33ghz has a decent clock speed advantage over a 920 2.66 ghz.
It will make more of a difference than the '$6000 for 1MPH car' analogy.
Sure, 920 can easily be OCed pass 3.33 but then again the 975 can reach higher OCs than 920.
Point is, the OP stated he has $5000 to spend on this build so I don't see why not.

The SLI GTX 295 is a poor choice at this point given that they scale pretty bad and the next gen GPUs are near by.
The i7 975 will last you till i9s are out but GTX 295s are on their way.
 
I agree on the points regarding new hardware, I do agree it's foolish to spend money on high-end stuff when the next generation is around the corner.

Regarding the price/performance ratio... I respectfully disagree.

Some people won't buy a new car... some people will only buy cheap cars (Kia, for example)... others will buy a BMW, or even sports cars, when the speed limit is the same for everyone. It really is a matter of perspective and I don't mind paying a little extra for the "last 10% performance". That being said, I don't claim to be building any kind of low-budget PC, either.

I normally give more weight to the price/performance ratio but I want my next build to be absolutely ridiculous.
 
-1 ihira no way on this earth that 670 MHz is worth $719 in any game or overclocking quest.
 
lt_shiro said:
-1 ihira no way on this earth that 670 MHz is worth $719 in any game or overclocking quest.
Click to expand...

Read the post above. The OP stats he has a $5000 budget fot his build.
I don't know if he won the lotto or has some source of funds for PC parts or is just plain rich but thats none of our business. For the majority of people including you and me, yes. I would never pay that much $ for a CPU.
 
yes I have read the post and I still don't agree suggest wasting good money.
 
Lots of people don't think Acura/Lexus/Audi is worth buying over Honda/Toyota/VW because of the price difference, and I don't debate that the 975 is a premium product. However, I work from home (2 positions plus my own things on the side), and I also play video games in my spare time... which is obviously many hours at the computer. The combination of all of those things makes me feel able to justify my outrageous behavior. :D

Also, I barely do this every other year (if that), I'm willing to spend extra to have that additional (albeit minor) power for those many hours I will use the hardware.

I can't blame those who don't agree, but I've been setting money and FPS games aside for a while in preparation, I'm going to let loose on this build and really enjoy those games while waiting for FF14 - And then I can transition without having to build a computer when the game launches (work schedule may consume too much of my time)
 
LucidDream said:
Some people won't buy a new car... some people will only buy cheap cars (Kia, for example)... others will buy a BMW, or even sports cars, when the speed limit is the same for everyone. It really is a matter of perspective and I don't mind paying a little extra for the "last 10% performance". That being said, I don't claim to be building any kind of low-budget PC, either.
...................
Lots of people don't think Acura/Lexus/Audi is worth buying over Honda/Toyota/VW because of the price difference, and I don't debate that the 975 is a premium product.
Click to expand...

Just so that you don't get the wrong idea that everyone here who disagrees with you about the CPU are the same people who drive cheaper cars: I personally own and drive a Mercedes C230. Those luxury cars do provide a tangible difference in terms of quality, performance, and prestige. In this case, the i7 975 does not provide a tangible difference in quality and performance but maybe epeen in terms of prestige.
 
Danny Bui said:
Just so that you don't get the wrong idea that everyone here who disagrees with you about the CPU are the same people who drive cheaper cars: I personally own and drive a Mercedes C230. Those luxury cars do provide a tangible difference in terms of quality, performance, and prestige. In this case, the i7 975 does not provide a tangible difference in quality and performance but maybe epeen in terms of prestige.
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Well perhaps your frugal-mindedness is the reason you're not driving a McLaren F1 :cool: (kidding, of course...)


Seriously though I appreciate all the advice... anxiously waiting for the news on Thursday from Nvidia (hopefully) so I can make a decision about when this whole build will happen.
 
ihira said:
...
Point is, the OP stated he has $5000 to spend on this build so I don't see why not.
...
Click to expand...

$5k for just the tower is way past the point of diminishing returns. ;) $2k is already luxurious, but if you want to spend $5k, there are MUCH better ways that will offer MORE performance over an overpriced CPU. For example, a dedicated RAID card along with several SSDs would give you MUCH better performance than that gained from a 975 over a 920 Core i7.

Again, I can respect your needs and wants, but you're throwing your money at the wrong parts for the performance you want/need.

btw, 3-series here. :) The reason I'm not driving a McLaren F1 is because its out of my price range, lol. The i7 975 is NOT the F1 of CPUs.
 
Just because you have $5000 to spend on a computer doesn't mean that you need to spend that much to get a super high-end PC. But I'm curious to see what a well-built $5000 PC looks like.... =D
 
enginurd said:
btw, 3-series here. The reason I'm not driving a McLaren F1 is because its out of my price range, lol. The i7 975 is NOT the F1 of CPUs.
Click to expand...
I want a 3 series (or an M) but I just can't do it because it's such a rare occasion that I drive. I guess depending on how you look at it, that might be additional influence for some people :D

I'd be curious to know where else (aside from the video card configuration) you think the build could be improved. I'm keeping track of all of this input to use collectively when I finally do execute the build.


Regarding the 975, your point about getting more performance for the same money really trumps all my arguments, so I can't do much but say you're right. I upgraded from a pair of 10k raptors (striped) to my current OCZ SSD drive earlier this year. Seeing how I'll be using Windows 7, I suppose upgrading to faster SSD drives does make sense (improved support vs Vista, plus the technology has been maturing).

I'm looking for answers to these questions regarding storage:
1) If an expansion card is necessary, how fast does it need to be?
2) Drive selection (four drives? brand/model? I don't need too much storage on my operating drive as I have tons of drives lying around and a fileserver)

A quick note on Nvidia: it looks like the conference signup is ends the 9th but I believe the conference itself is 9/30 - 10/2. I'm not sure if this is the same conference mentioned earlier in this thread, but it seems consistent. So, looks like the wait will extend into next month. In the meanwhile I'm going to look at all these suggestions for tweaking my build, and figure out which case I'm getting, and where everything will go in the case (still planning on all internal WC).
 
The OCZ Solid series uses the JMicron controller, which is probably the worst controller for an SSD. The Solid 2 switches to the same controller as the Vertex, Indilinx Barefoot Controller, which offers much better performance.

While a single SSD is faster than VRaptors, two Indilinx-based SSDs in RAID0 are much better than one. The X25-M has superior small random write performance at the cost of slower sequential write speeds. The Indilinx-based SSD has superior sequential write speeds at the cost of much slower small random write speeds. The small random write speeds typically matter more than sequential speeds, for typical end users. So, if you can afford Intel SSDs, get those. If not, get at least two smaller Indilinx-based SSDs and throw them in RAID0. Also, one thing to take note of is that the 120GB Indilinx-based SSDs are around 15% faster than their 30GB and 60GB brethren.

Onboard Intel controllers typically max out with 3 Vertex 120GB SSDs in RAID0, ~650MB/s. So, if you plan on getting more than 3 SSDs, you'll need a discrete RAID controller. Which RAID controller depends on how many drives you plan on getting, since SSD performance scales very well in RAID0. If you wait long enough, you can simply buy a board with SATA600. :p

Samsung SSD Awesomeness
 
If you buy a 295 or even a couple of them, get EVGA. They have a step up program. So if Nvidia releases a new video card within the next 90 days, you can just pay the difference between the prices to step up to the new video card.

+1 to the idea of SSDs for the OS drive. You'll still need traditional hard drives for storage. Get some 1.5TB drives for that.
 
Between the all i7 processors, which one is best worth the price? I am hoping to build my own, but some people say that the 950 is well worth than the 920, so i want to make sure.

(I plan to do simple OC)
 
Kaze105 said:
Between the all i7 processors, which one is best worth the price? I am hoping to build my own, but some people say that the 950 is well worth than the 920, so i want to make sure.

(I plan to do simple OC)
Click to expand...

You should start your own thread and answer the sticky questions in order to get better help and not threadjack the OP. ;)
 
enginurd said:
The OCZ Solid series uses the JMicron controller, which is probably the worst controller for an SSD. The Solid 2 switches to the same controller as the Vertex, Indilinx Barefoot Controller, which offers much better performance.

While a single SSD is faster than VRaptors, two Indilinx-based SSDs in RAID0 are much better than one. The X25-M has superior small random write performance at the cost of slower sequential write speeds. The Indilinx-based SSD has superior sequential write speeds at the cost of much slower small random write speeds. The small random write speeds typically matter more than sequential speeds, for typical end users. So, if you can afford Intel SSDs, get those. If not, get at least two smaller Indilinx-based SSDs and throw them in RAID0. Also, one thing to take note of is that the 120GB Indilinx-based SSDs are around 15% faster than their 30GB and 60GB brethren.

Onboard Intel controllers typically max out with 3 Vertex 120GB SSDs in RAID0, ~650MB/s. So, if you plan on getting more than 3 SSDs, you'll need a discrete RAID controller. Which RAID controller depends on how many drives you plan on getting, since SSD performance scales very well in RAID0. If you wait long enough, you can simply buy a board with SATA600. :p

Samsung SSD Awesomeness
Click to expand...

enginurd - That's an extremely useful digest. I actually happened upon that video between your previous two posts and I thought it was pretty funny (almost posted it but didn't know if that'd be appreciated). I've done a little review of the SSDs you mentioned and it looks like the Vertex "Turbo" has a much better price/gig ratio ($439 for 120GB) than Intel's SSDs ($629 for 160GB, no 120GB on newegg, or 10%+ more expensive). I think it would be difficult to overcome the 15% speed increase obtained when going with the 120GB+ drives, though it increases the cost and lowers the number of SSDs. At $439/pc I wouldn't be opposed to throwing 4 in raid-0 and seeing how it goes... or does it makes more sense to stick to 3 drives, saving the cost on the controller and 4th drive?

vjcsmoke - It'll be a single 295 or multiple 285s, if I don't wait for 300 series (damn Nvidia for being secretive)

Kaze105 said:
Quote:
enginurd said:
You should start your own thread and answer the sticky questions in order to get better help and not threadjack the OP.
Click to expand...
True, sorry about it(to op). Quite some talk about 920, so couldnt hesitate.
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No problem. I know the feeling. Anyhow, after all the talk in this thread I've done some of my own research and I basically gather the following:

920s can be OC'd to 4Ghz, where they pretty much hit a wall - This is slightly (3%~10%) easier to do with the 920 D0 than the C0, from what I gather.
975s have unlocked multipliers so you don't immediately need to mess with your ram voltages (overclock)... All 975s are D0, and they OC to roughly 4.6Ghz

The 950 isn't going to do anything far outside the OC capabilities of a 920, particularly when considering the 975 only has a 600mhz gap.

I hope all my anti-975 protesters are proud, or at least happy! :D
 
Hey, 975 would be fine as long as you know what you are getting for $700+ extra (and that is not much more than what you get with a 920). Some people think that it is worth it... I think you should buy a 30" display with the money instead!
 
Thanks for the info, now i dont have to create a new thread about it.. will definitely go with the 920.
 
Multiple reports show that 4x Indilinx based drives in RAID0 with the onboard Intel ICH10R actually gives less performance than 3x drives, since the controller maxes out at 650MB/s. That would be the most bang for buck, but if you're going for 4x or more drives, you'll need a controller card that will probably cost upwards of $250 -- a fractional cost compared to the overall budget, but its still up to you. I'll let you do the math on the added controller + SSDs and the extra performance gained to figure out if its worth it to you.

The X25-M only comes in 80GB and 160GB. These are the cream of the crop of MLC SSDs. The 80GB is on newegg, but they raised the price back up despite Intel lowering them over a month ago :mad:. Again, if you're going with RAID0, that should make up for the slower random write speeds if using Indilinx based drives instead of Intels.

$2.58/GB - OCZ Agility 120GB: $309 (w/ $30MIR: $2.33/GB) (slower flash)
$2.74/GB - Super Talent UltraDrive ME 128GB: $329
$2.82/GB - Patriot Torqx 128GB: $339 (10yr warranty)
$2.88/GB - Intel X25-M 80GB: $230 (intel's msrp is now $225; $230 is the lowest newegg went)
$3.08/GB - OCZ Vertex 120GB: $369 (w/ $30MIR: $2.83/GB)
$3.66/GB - OCZ Vertex Turbo 120GB: $439

... looks like the UltraDrive ME has the best price/GB ratio, with the regular Vertex next (if you like rebates). Looks like G.Skill Falcons are out of stock -- they used to be the cheapest Indilinx based SSDs available.

Kaze105 said:
Thanks for the info, now i dont have to create a new thread about it.. will definitely go with the 920.
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Well, If you look at the reviews from yesterday, the new 750 performs nearly on par with the 920 in almost everything, and is significantly cheaper if you don't live near a Microcenter (where the 920 is $200). Also, the P55 boards are much cheaper than the X58 boards. However, I don't know you what you'll be using the computer for, nor your budget, so its hard to make suggestions on specific parts. Again, just make a thread. Thats what the forum is here for. If you want, read all the other threads and compile your own list of parts, then post a build for final sign-off, just to make sure you're getting the most bang for buck and everything will work right together. ;)
 
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enginurd said:
Multiple reports show that 4x Indilinx based drives in RAID0 with the onboard Intel ICH10R actually gives less performance than 3x drives, since the controller maxes out at 650MB/s. That would be the most bang for buck, but if you're going for 4x or more drives, you'll need a controller card that will probably cost upwards of $250 -- a fractional cost compared to the overall budget, but its still up to you. I'll let you do the math on the added controller + SSDs and the extra performance gained to figure out if its worth it to you.
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I may if I get substantial performance from it, but if the extra $650 isn't going to increase the performance, then I would surely skip the card and the 4th drive. I think my single existing SSD is impressive in that it feels slightly faster than my pair of raptors. Moving to multiple SSDs is exciting based upon some charts and things I've seen :cool:

You seem to say that there is no bottleneck here, but that this is the point when you need a dedicated card for RAID.

If I could go with 3x 160G Intel X25-M (using the onboard raid controller), would that be better than 4x 120G OCZ Vertex Turbo on a dedicated raid card? How much of a quality difference do you think there is between the drives?

Also, is there an enclosure I can pick up if I go with 4 drives? I like to secure everything in my case and I'm hoping I don't need 4 sets of giant ugly metal brackets. I see some dual SSD 3.5" enclosures but would prefer to have all 4 of them in a single enclosure (5.25" bay?) if possible.
 
4x Indilinx drives would be bottlenecked with Intel onboard ICH, yes. Since X25-M drives have lower sequential speeds, I think 4x with Intel onboard ICH should still be fine -- I believe you'll get nearly the same performance between the two setups, though, with maybe the Intel SSDs edging out due to the faster small random write speeds. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

If you do a lot of sequential I/O, you'll want the dedicated card and 4+ Indilinx based drives, IMO.

One thing that Intel dominates OCZ/Indilinx at is firmware. OCZ/Indilinx relies on its user base to help them test firmware revisions, while Intel does testing in-house. Therefore, the quality of firmware is typically better from Intel; and if you beta test for Indilinx, make sure you backup your stuff. :p

Make sure you read all 3 of those Anandtech articles on SSDs.

Yes, there are 5.25" adapters that will house 4x 2.5" SSDs in a single bay.

On the flip side, with Intel TurboCache on the way in early 2010, it may take longer for mainstream SSD adoption. :(
 
Mercedes vs Toyota makes no sense in this case.

Core i7 is not a brand, it is a model. The 975 is just adding more top-end horsepower.

It's not worth it, especially since you'll "need" a hexacore in less than a year. I also estimate the i7 920 will defy the usual and not depreciate, maybe even appreciating in the process. So about $200-220 for a long time.

How are your chair and desk? Heck for the savings you could have a server, laptop, or folding drone (or the laptop could do that and be mobile).
 
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