Remote 3D Acceleration

[malatofu]

As virtualization is becoming better and better I would like to set it up as well. For remote 3d Acceleration to work I heard of 3 products:

• HDX
• RemoteFX
• PCoIP

So I would prefer to either use VMWare's PCoIP or Citrix's HDX.
Unfortunately I seem to not find the very basic information: What software is actually required in order to achieve the following:

• One Central Server that does the graphic rendering and holds the virtual machines
• The Client (Windows or FreeBSD) that can display the virtual machines from the server

Just for an example:
I boot up my FreeBSD client to a graphical mode and want to start a terminal program to display a virtual machine e.g., windows XP. In Windows XP I want to be able to play a 3D Game.

I don't really know whether VMWare or Citrix is better, or maybe there are even other better ones (or fully freeware ones that could achieve the same)?
Anyway most of those vendors use so many buzzwords and have so many product lines, so i am pretty confused which software of them to take.

 

[lilfiend]

from my understanding citrix is used on windows hyper-v now, but i could be wrong

 

[TeeJayHoward]

from my understanding citrix is used on windows hyper-v now, but i could be wrong

I tried Server 2008 R2 SP1 HyperV recently. My experience has been that the graphics performance is limited to approximately 25% of what it should be. You also cannot run any applications which require DirectX 10 or 11. RemoteFX is better than nothing, but far inferior to the competition. From threads on the [H], I've seen that Xen is, if I recall correctly, capable of passing through a GPU to the virtualized OS at near-native (98-99%) speeds. ESX(i) can supposedly do the same, but support is limited. I'll be building a box to test ESXi and Xen when the Ivy Bridge E3s are released later this year. My intention is to set up a "gaming machine" that my fiancee can use while sitting on the couch with her laptop, so graphics will be quite important.

 

[malatofu]

I've seen that Xen is, if I recall correctly, capable of passing through a GPU to the virtualized OS at near-native (98-99%) speeds.

There is still some confusion here:

So If I use XEN as the hypervisor, I will be able to use near-native graphics power,
but can I also build any of the above 3 products on top of it, or am I limited to a citrix only setup when using XEN-hypervisor?

 

[TeeJayHoward]

There is still some confusion here:

So If I use XEN as the hypervisor, I will be able to use near-native graphics power,
but can I also build any of the above 3 products on top of it, or am I limited to a citrix only setup when using XEN-hypervisor?

Xen would be on the host OS (usually some variant of Debian Linux). Any one VM could use the graphics card. That VM could be any host - Windows, Unix, Linux, etc.

 

[malatofu]

Xen would be on the host OS (usually some variant of Debian Linux). Any one VM could use the graphics card. That VM could be any host - Windows, Unix, Linux, etc.

Yes, but the question is about thise techniques (HDX, RemoteFX, PCoIP) on top of xen. How does this fit into play?

 

[lopoetve]

Yes, but the question is about thise techniques (HDX, RemoteFX, PCoIP) on top of xen. How does this fit into play?

That's whatever protocol the VM is using to communicate with the client. They're not really built for that though - at this point, they're looking for HD video, etc far more than gaming graphics at any kind of speed.

Remember, these are all enterprise grade hypervisors - they're for running hundreds of servers on a single machine, not a gaming VM. You're not really their main market

 

[malatofu]

they're for running hundreds of servers on a single machine

If you can belief all those youtube videos, than it is possible to run games like crisis remotely. Thats where it shoold lead

You're not really their main market

That's true, but there are trial versions out there to use.

So anyway, is there some useful tutorial out there that gets rid with all those different confusing buzzwords?

 

[Netwerkz101]

<snipped>
Anyway most of those vendors use so many buzzwords and have so many product lines, so i am pretty confused which software of them to take.

Agreed 100% ... which is why I always feel like a total noobie all the time.

In my limited experience ... Citrix is still leading the way when it comes to user experience over a WAN connection .... but what does "remotely" really mean in your scenario? LAN? WAN?

Anyway... to clear up one minor confusion:
Citrix = XenServer ("commercial") hypervisor which is based off Xen ("Free") hypervisor.

From what I am reading, you may want to look into Citrix XenClient.
I don't use it for gaming, but Windows 7 Aero interface works great.
There is limited support for GPUs though .. Intel HD graphics (2000,3000) and limited ATI/AMD RADEON.

XenClient 2.1 HCL

Alternately, there is Citrix XenDesktop ...but again..from what I read.. your best chance at gaming type graphics would come from Citrix XenClient.

You can download Express Editions of XenDesktop for free (registration).
XenClient is free as well right now.

 

[malatofu]

@Netwerkz101, thanks, so I don't feel too much alone on this issue.

So what I have understood by now:
Citrix
+ Citrix XenServer is the server type one hypervisor
+ Citrix XenClient is a type one Hypervisor (based on Xen) that is running on the client computer, which on top will host remote virtual machines delivered from the XenServer via flex technology.
+ Citrix XenDesktop is a client software sitting on top of your client's windows machine using HDX technology to deliver remote virtual machines (also from the XenServer).

VMware
+ VMware vSphere is the Server type one hypervisor
+ VMware View is a client Software on top of your clients windows, linux or OSX delivering the remote virtual machine via PCoIP

Could someone please double check my above assumption.
Are the above two server hypervisor also responsible for creating and managing virtual machines or do I need additional software to achieve this?

Edit:
I have found this VMware vs. Citrix buzzword comparison chart
http://ahsantasneem.blogspot.com/2011/11/xendesktop-55-vs-vmware-view-50.html

 

[lopoetve]

If you can belief all those youtube videos, than it is possible to run games like crisis remotely. Thats where it shoold lead

As neat as that sounds, there's not much money in it (being totally honest) right now.

That's true, but there are trial versions out there to use.

So anyway, is there some useful tutorial out there that gets rid with all those different confusing buzzwords?

True, but trials don't drive feature sets

I don't know of much tutorial wise for remotefx/etc. PCoIP just requires you set up view, but it won't run any kind of 3d game of note at this time.

 

[malatofu]

I don't know of much tutorial wise for remotefx/etc. PCoIP just requires you set up view, but it won't run any kind of 3d game of note at this time.

If I get it right, this is for the client side, and what exactly does the server-side need?

 

[lopoetve]

If I get it right, this is for the client side, and what exactly does the server-side need?

So, view operates on a VM "master image" (either template or vm with snapshot).

In that VM, you install the view agent, which is the PCoIP server/interface with view. It then makes desktops out of that master agent, which you connect to over rdp or PCoIP via the view client.

 

[k1pp3r]

Don't forget quest vWorkspace for virtual desktop graphics acceleration.

It actually is pretty darn good in the 7.5 version, very slick

 

[Srobinson]

Someone has already touched on VMware View with PCoIP protocol integrated.

For extreme graphics you can consider an add-in card for PCoIP encoding (and compression) that supports any GPU with DVI video connectors. This add-in card is used to remote high-end 3D workstations and is built into a number of complete systems including the Dell R5500 remote rack workstation.

The benefits of adding a PCoIP host card:

• Extreme 3D performance (60frames per second, dual 1920x1200 screens)
• Support any GPU with DVI interfaces
• No drivers requried on the host PC
• No loading on the remote workstation CPU (keep cycles for your apps)
• Support for any graphics interface (OpenGL, DirectX etc)

For more info see: http://www.teradici.com/pcoip/pcoip-markets.php

Cheers, Stu

 

[madrebel]

nvidia just announced some new cloud vdi crap too. looked like citrix only for now though.

 

[bwanaaa]

let me get this straight--
the client gets all its data from the host as screens that are painted 60x second.
mouseclicks and keystrokes on the client are sent to the host which then reproduces them on the 'master copy' of the clients screen and processes them?

i thought vnc or remote desktop already did this?

i thought the concept of virtual machines was to allow a different os to run locally (on the 'client box'). No networking is involved. What does a server-client model do to improve the virtual machine concept?

please be gentle.

 

[shetu]

Do I attache 3 monitor to PCoIP Thin Clients as eye infinity?

 

[dbwillis]

I think there are some PCoIP clients that can do quad monitors, we have about 1000 machines with PCoIP host cards and PCoIP zero clients, most are single monitor setups, but about 50 are dual monitor setups.
The machines vary as to what video cards they use, but some are Quadro NVS and some are GeForce GT220.
We can game on the machines over the PCoIP connection without a problem (user is about 1/8 to 1/4 mile from the machine)