Reference 670 vs aftermarket 7950.

[Eltocliousus]

I can't decide between getting the MSI reference GTX 670 for £300 or the XFX 7950 (double D black) for £270, which would allow my budget for 16gb of RAM which I honestly don't need but
I may aswell as the Corsair dominator are on a very large sale.

670: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...15mhz-boost-980mhz-cores-1344-2x-dl-dvi-dp-hd

7950: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-...hz-gddr5-28nm-gpu-900mhz-1792-cores-dvi-i-hdm

I'm mostly worried about sound, I like to keep my computer quiet as I use open headphones and the reference 670 scares me as I've heard people say they're quite noisy, I'm unsure on what to grab, hopefully I can get a few opinions! Thankyou.

 

[FrostBite]

670 definitely, it'll smoke the 7950. Unless you are in 40 degree Celsius ambient and/or push for huge overclocks, the card shouldn't get so hot that it'll need to run the fan full blast.

 

[raghu78]

OP get this Sapphire HD 7950 OC model. same price as the XFX HD 7950. but the sapphire dual x cooler is better than XFX DD.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-...0-oc-gddr5-dual-link-dvi-i-hdmi-2x-mini-dp-dp

This card with manufacturer code 11196-10-40G comes with a HD 7970 PCB and 950 Mhz out of the box speeds. Even at stock the HD 7950 950 Mhz will perform like a ref GTX 670(915/980). But the HD 7950 comes with a higher quality PCB and components which help overclocking.

you can see the correct specs here

http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-11196-10-40G-PCIE3-0-2xMiniDP-Video/dp/B0085APWKK/

here is a HD 7950 (900 Mhz) compared at stock and overclocked with HD 7970 (925 Mhz)

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/8

You can see that the perf diff is very less when HD 7950(900 Mhz) is compared with HD 7970 (925) . At stock speeds of 950 Mhz you will be on par with a ref HD 7970 (925 Mhz)

this card with pics has been posted here
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1695577

 

[legcramp]

No overclocking? GTX 670
Overclocking? HD 7950

But you also have to consider which games you are mainly playing.

 

[psyside]

670 definitely, it'll smoke the 7950. Unless you are in 40 degree Celsius ambient and/or push for huge overclocks, the card shouldn't get so hot that it'll need to run the fan full blast.

@OP never, ever buy reference card when you can get alot better non reference for lower price, and with slight overclock it will run same as the GTX670, the build quality of reference 670's is junk, bad cooler,running hot, poor vrm design, short pcb etc.

 

[buttons]

I would vote for the 7950 as well, but i am biased.

 

[ICDP]

That said, a non reference 670 (eg gigabyte or ASus) will wipe the floor against a 7950

No it won't, it will be very close depending on max possible OC. The OP explicitly mentioned the XFX Black Edition which has a 12.5% higher core clock and also has a much better OC potential than a stock 7950. The OP also stated that noise was more of a concern than outright performance. An aftermarket custom cooled 7950 with OC is about on par with an overclocked 670 here on [H[. Both seem to run very quiet according to [H]. Of course overclocking potential is not guaranteed for both cards.

Stock GTX 670 with max stable OC

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/10/nvidia_geforce_gtx_670_video_card_review/7

ASUS GeForce GTX 670 DirectCU II TOP Max OC
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/06/26/asus_geforce_gtx_670_directcu_ii_top_video_card_review/5

XFX Black edition 7950 max stable OC (bear in mind that this review is using older AMD drivers so another ~ 5%+ can be added to these scores).

http://hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/7

Even an OC to 1050MHz on the 7950 will give a 25% performance increase at stock volts. Look at the release day review of the reference HD 7950 to see what I mean.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/01/30/amd_radeon_hd_7950_video_card_review/13

The GTX 670 and custom cooled OC edition HD 7950s (which are the standard now) seem to be very evenly matched at max OC, I would call it close overall. I would just give the nod to the 670 overall apart from price which massively favours the 7950. The custom cooled 7950s are around 10% cheaper than a stock 670 and 20% cheaper than the custom cooled GTX 670s. Paying a 20% premium for similar performance depending on max achievable OC would be not in the OPs best interests.

There just seems to be a Nvidia has wiped the floor with AMD this round mentality. When I look at benches comparing the GTX 670 vs HD 7950 at max OC with latest drivers I see two cards very closely matched. I see the same thing when I compare my GTX 680 to my HD 7970 at max OC on both (yes I own and have tested both). Honestly, from my own testing and the results of countless (current) benchmarks AMD and Nvidia are very closely matched this round.

 

[psyside]

Agree completely with ICDP.

 

[GigabyteZ]

OP I have had experience with both the the HD7970 and the GTX 670. The cards are so close in performance and overclocking potential that you would be hard pressed to find a difference. Your question should really be GTX 670 or HD7970 if you look at performance/price.

That being said, the HD7950 that you are interested in isn't similar to the GTX 670 in the respect that the 670 is just as fast as it's big brother GTX 680 minus a frame or two here and there. You can overclock the HD7950 but the GTX 670 can overclock as well.

My advice to you: GTX 670, not because I own one, but that it is the superior card and uses less power at the same time WHILE being $30-$40 cheaper. If your question was about the HD7970 then I would tell you to flip a coin as they trade blows in games. Although the HD7950 has some great overclocking prospects, it is just a small step below the GTX 670 and HD7970.

 

[ICDP]

OP I have had experience with both the the HD7970 and the GTX 670. The cards are so close in performance and overclocking potential that you would be hard pressed to find a difference. Your question should really be GTX 670 or HD7970 if you look at performance/price.

If your experience of GTX 670 vs HD 7970 is anything to go by (and it is) then you can add the GTX 680 into that mix as well. My experience of GTX 680 vs HD 7970 shows them evenly matched, ie win some lose some draw some. Even the 7950 can keep up as long as we are comparing max potential overclocks on air.

That being said, the HD7950 that you are interested in isn't similar to the GTX 670 in the respect that the 670 is just as fast as it's big brother GTX 680 minus a frame or two here and there. You can overclock the HD7950 but the GTX 670 can overclock as well.

Read the [H] reviews I linked to in my previous post and wou will see that the 7950 is very close to the GTX 670 when we factor in the very achievable OC potential the 7950 has. It is also much cheaper, which was one of the OPs desirable criteria

My advice to you: GTX 670, not because I own one, but that it is the superior card and uses less power at the same time WHILE being $30-$40 cheaper. If your question was about the HD7970 then I would tell you to flip a coin as they trade blows in games. Although the HD7950 has some great overclocking prospects, it is just a small step below the GTX 670 and HD7970.

Where is the GTX 670 $30-$40 cheaper than the HD 7950? The OP is in the UK where the 7950 is much cheaper. I agree on the GTX 670 vs HD 7970 though I would add a GTX 680 into that comparison. I bought a GTX 680 for a good price second hand, I would not buy one here in the UK at full price where a stock GTX 680 is £70 more expensive than a custom cooled HD 7970 which gives identical performance.

Read the reviews I linked to and go to the power draw sections. You will see that stock for stock the HD 7950 and GTX 670 have very similar power usage. Having said that the additional power draw for HD79x0 vs GTX 6x0 cards under load is much less than the power draw difference that the GTX 580 had over the HD 6970. People didn't seem to care about that at the time, why the sudden interest? I said at the time when the GTX 580 was drawing more power than a HD 6970 the difference would amount to around £20 per year on your electricity bill. Even then it would only be if you gamed 24/7.

Once again we are back to what is IMHO the salient point. Normally the Nvidia cards are 15%-20% ahead after the dust has settled, this is not the case this round. For the 1st time in a few GPU generations AMD and Nvidia are trading blows at the high end. Yet we still have Nvidia charging a 30%+ brand name premium here in the UK.

These prices are from reputable UK retailers, you may find cheaper but these illustrate my point nicely. Why do most people (not you Gigabyte7) have the misconception that Nvidia have won this round easily, especially when we factor in a vastly inlfated price compared to a similar performing cempetitor. No doubt about it, compared to the HD 7970 and GTX 670 the GTX 680 is way overpriced considering it has similar performance. It boggles the mind

Cheapest stock HD 7970 ~ £290 including delivery. (I would avoid the reference 7970 if noise is an issue)
Cheapest stock GTX 670 ~ £300 including delivery.
Cheapest stock GTX 680 ~ £390 including delivery.

Cheapest custom cooled HD 7970 ~ £330 including delivery.
Cheapest custom cooled GTX 670 ~ £320 including delivery.
Cheapest custom cooled GTX 680 ~ £430 including delivery.

 

[Michaelius]

Well of course after all 7970 has performance of 670 not 680.

 

[ICDP]

Well of course after all 7970 has performance of 670 not 680.

No it doesn't, I have both and I have tested both extensively. Even [H] has done an extensive review based on max OC they could achieve on each card.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3

The GTX 680 and HD 7970 are marginally faster than the GTX 670 when overclocked, even the HD 7950 is not being soundly beaten considering the price difference. Having said that the performance delta from top to bottom is only around 15% on average from OC 7950 to OC GTX 680 or HD 7970. The HD 7970 and GTX 680 show around a ~ 5%-10% average increase over the GTX 670.

So on performance it is 7950<670<7970<680 with around a 15% performance delta in total between them. The difference between HD 7970 and GTX 680 is only a few percent in favour of the GTX 680 at 1920x1200 and the tables turn to slightly in HD 7970s favour at 2560x1600 from my testing. Of course mileage may vary depending on the stable OC, but each of these cards have excellent OC potential. These performance figures in no way justify the ~ £170 price difference between a custom cooled 7950 and a similar custom cooled GTX 680.

My Stock GTX 680 does 1270 on the core and it is matched by my HD 7970 which does 1170 on the core with a small voltage tweak.

When both are run at stock the GTX 680 is marginally better but again in no way is it £100 better. They are very similar in performance but not in price/performance. The misconception you have that the GTX 680 is better than the 7970 is not backed up by the facts as they stand as of this date. I suggest you read more current reviews that use the latest drivers for all cards tested to see what I mean.

My basic premise here is that for most people the GTX 680 (or soon to be released GHz edition 7970s) are not worth the large price premium compared to the GTX 670, HD 7970 or even the HD 7950 considering the relatively minor performance delta for that premium. Granted if you start going to £500 premium edition cards you start to see a difference but considering the £230+ price difference for that max potential 25% performance premium is it really worth it? For enthusiasts with money to burn yes, for most here (including the OP) no.

 

[ICDP]

Another thing we seem to forget when evaluating these cards is that review sites run their tests with vsync off. Most people still use 60Hz 1920x1080 monitors with vsync enabled. As soon as you enable vsync or tripple buffering etc then you are crippling the average FPS on your GPU. Some people even turn on FPS limiters to smooth out the FPS fluctuations.

I know from my own testing that as soon as vsync is enabled, telling the difference between my GTX 680 and HD 7970 becomes totally impossible in the vast majority of games.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

My overclocked 7950 is around as fast as an overclocked GTX670 at 2560x1440. They seem to go back and forth. GTX680 is only around 5% faster than GTX670 clock for clock.

I really think that some of these non-reference 7950s are a great deal.

 

[raghu78]

The simple fact is HD 7950 and HD 7970 perform very close at the same clock speeds. same applies to the GTX 670 and GTX 680. When overclocked these cards all end up quite close to each other in performance. Thats the reason for the HD 7950 being the best value.

OP If you choose the HD 7950 stay away from the XFX card. the DD cooler is quite poor if you are overclocking. get the Gigabyte HD 7950 Windforce or Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz (code 11196-10-40G)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-098-GI&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1673

http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/...aphicscards/amdhd7950series/11196-10-40g.html
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-...0-oc-gddr5-dual-link-dvi-i-hdmi-2x-mini-dp-dp

If you want GTX 670 get the MSI GTX 670 Power Edition . very good custom design for just 312 bucks.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...8mhz-gddr5-gpu-1019mhz-boost-1079mhz-cores-13

 

[ICDP]

My overclocked 7950 is around as fast as an overclocked GTX670 at 2560x1440. They seem to go back and forth. GTX680 is only around 5% faster than GTX670 clock for clock.

I really think that some of these non-reference 7950s are a great deal.

This highlights my point well thanks.

While it is easy to reply that "the GTX cards overclock well also" that is not strictly true. A GTX 670 will gain ~15% + performance with a good overclock, which is very good. The HD 7950 can be overclocked to around 1100 MHz + or even more with minor voltage tweaks. This is an increase from stock performance of ~ 30% +. So while it is true that a stock GTX 670 is ~ 20% faster than a stock HD 7950, it must be remembered that the 7950 will make up more ground when comparing overclocks.

Here are two threads where fellow [H] forumites list their HD 7950 and GTX 670 overclocks. Reading through both threads it is clear the GTX 670 and HD 7950 overclock to very similar performance, I would say that overall it depends on the individual cards max OC.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1679776

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1692660