Reevaluation of my HTPC needs/ wants

[J-Will]

First of all, thanks to those that helped me out in my previous thread. Here is my old post, though I think it is unnecessary to look at now, as the wants have changed: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1439134

Long story short, I would like to go with a single device for all media HTPC needs. All formats, and HTPC tasks.

I would like to be able to playback BR, DVD, live TV, record live TV (2 channels min, but still be able to watch saved content while recording, 2x dual capture tuners is not out of the question though unsure if needed off the bat), hulu, downloaded content in various formats stored on a NAS, rip media (preferably while watching any of the above mediums) to store on the NAS.

As for the OS I would like Win7. Not sure if I should purchase x86 or x64.

HDMI with 7.1 is a must. I know a lot of people recommend motherboards with onboard gfx that accomplish this. I just cannot see onboard being able to let’s say record to TV shows to the HDD while watching downloaded content saved on a NAS. I understand that is more of an old school mentality and new tech may be able to do that, I just want to double check with people that have stayed more up to date.

I would like to make it remote controlled, but plan on getting a Logitech remote for my TV/ Receiver so hopefully it’ll work with this as well. Is this as simple as just getting a USB IR receiver and connecting it to the motherboard, then just configuring the remote? Is a mouse and keyboard still needed from time to time? Any way to make WMC automatically start during boot-up?

While I do not have an absolute and fixed budget, I’d like to keep it under (or close to) $800. The smaller, the better; I understand that means low power and this is where the confusion for me starts. I don’t know what CPU, or chipset to go with that will still allow ripping and play back to be done without dropping frames while keeping low power, low heat.

I don’t care about the AMD Vs Intel or nVidia Vs ATI, though I tend to like Intel CPUs and ATI GPUs. Yes, I see the oddity. Probably some sort of dual core at a min?

I do plan to buy before the weekend so I can have the parts here next week. I will build with Win7 RC x64 for testing, but will move to Win7 retail when it hits stores in Sept. Again, still undecided on 32 or 64… Guess I’ll test with 64 to find out if it will work. But I see you guys recommend only 2gb of RAM for HTPCs so that would mostly defeat the purpose of 64 bit OS. On the other hand, I don’t mind one bit getting 4gb if it is deemed necessary or something I should get to help rip and record or record more than one thing at a time.

This will be connected to an Onkyo 607 which is already purchased, not yet arrived.

Hopefully this long post gave you enough of an idea. Just basically a 'media playback/ encoding/ decoding that can do many things at once' device thats quieter than the 360 sitting next to it... which shouldnt be too difficult

 

[kumquat]

What does onboard graphics/sound have to do with recording to the HDD while watching an MKV? It works, trust me.

Yes, WMC can start automatically after boot.

A Harmony remote will work fine. Either buy a TV card with remote/receiver (like the Hauppauge 2250) or buy a Media Center remote/receiver separately. You will want to supplement it with a wireless KB/mouse. I recommend the Logitech Dinovo Mini.

I'm a fan of the Athlon X2 e-series CPUs like the 5050e. They're more than fast enough to do everything you want, and they're very low power and therefore quiet.

I'd personally get 4GB of RAM and go with Win7 x86. I tried x64 and it just ultimately wasn't quite as smooth with drivers and such.

I'm using a Geforce 8200 board. AFAIK the 8200/8300 boards are still the hot ticket for HTPC builds. Meets all your needs without a separate sound card or graphics card.

 

[Archer75]

You can just get a board with everything integrated. Such as the 8200/8300 for amd chips or 9300/9400 for intel chips.

The most energy efficient chip for those boards that I know if is the Intel Conroe-L at 35w. If that is a concern.

Building a HTPC is not like building a gaming machine. Onboard video is fine. I have a HDhomerun tuner. I can record 2 HD programs at once with that. And watch a 1080p movie at the same time with no problem. 2ghz cpu and 2gb of ram.

Windows 7 ships with 32 and 64bit on the same disc. For playing back mkv's, dvd's, xvid's x64 works fine and is easy to setup. Process is the same as 32bit.
If you want to playback lossless FLAC from bluray rips you've made of trueHD or DTS-HD you'll want 32bit. Reason is you need to use the 32bit madflac filter as it's the only 24bit FLAC codec i'm aware of.

 

[J-Will]

Thanks for the info guys.

I was thinking that with onboard video having to encode and decode and the same time, there might be dropped frames. But from what you two are saying, onboard will work.

From what you two are saying, 32 bit is probably the route I'll end up taking. I really do not want to be limited to what codecs or playback filters I can use.

Thanks again, this gives me more of an idea of what I need to piece together.

 

[tuxista]

I have a PC with a E5300 and another one with a AMD 4850e (both are not HTPC just normal general purpose).

The E5300 is 50% faster than the AMD 4850e. while at the same time using less power at full load (tested myself doing a Handbrake transcode of the same source file, power use measured with a watt-meter).

THe new AMD Athlon X2 250 cpus are much better but still not as good as the E5300 or the new E6500 so currently Intel is the better choice for a low/medium range cpu.
(I'm not Intel or AMD fanboy, as you can see I own both, so please don't make this a Intel<>AMD flame-war).

I would suggest, have a look at the example build at the end of this article here:
http://www.linuxtech.net/features/best_linux_htpc_motherboards.html

Get one of the Intel mobos listed there, maybe increase the RAM to 4GB (as you are using Windows, not Linux) and maybe get a 1.5TB HDD (or two if you need plenty space) instead of the 1TB shown.
The Antec case listed in that example build is one of the quietest you can buy.

Such a build will do exactly what you want without costing more than 500$.

For IR just get a media center compatible receiver off ebay, they are really cheap there, I got a HP branded one off ebay for 12$ and it works great.

 

[Adidas4275]

with the X2 245 at $60 on newegg that is a nice CPUm its 65w..... so not as nice as a 45w CPU but you can enable CnQ and be set. I have a BE-2400 @2.3GHZ and my HTPC has issues with mkvs that are in 1080p or other high bit rate videos. I have started to rip all my blu-rays to my WHS and convert them the MKVs for subs and multiple audio channels, works great except they take more CPU than playing the blu-ray from the disk. I needed to OC my BE-2400 to 2.5-2.6GHZ to get it to play smoothly in all situations and since my wife uses the HTPC more than I do, i do not want an OCed CPU on it. It runs 24/7 recording TV, since WHS cannot use tuners with a media center app that is seamless, and so stability is important.

just my experience...

 

[Archer75]

I have a BE-2400 @2.3GHZ and my HTPC has issues with mkvs that are in 1080p or other high bit rate videos

are you using the correct codec? Are you sure it's set as system default? My 2ghz core2duo doesn't stutter on any mkv at all. Only 10% cpu usage too.

 

[Zachstar]

Spend a little money and grab a passive ATI 4550 to the build in my opinion.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819

You want words on onboard? I have some. 8200 is not enough in my opinion. The others will try to convince you otherwise of course. But please atleast keep the opinion open.

Edit: If you have money to "blow" you might even try to do somthing insane and try a massive underclock of a high powered Nvidia card or an ATI 4770. They are slightly above the 100USD price range but will give your HTPC an insane amount of power.

 

[Archer75]

The 8200 is more than enough. When you play back a 1080p with hardware acceleration the GPU is doing all the work and your CPU is at about 10% utilization. So no, you don't need a discrete card. They can add better image quality assuming you get the right one and assuming you can even notice a difference on your display.

If your CPU utilization is higher it's because you have not configured your HTPC correctly. Everyone will tell you, on this forum and others, that a 8200/8300 board has absolutely no problem handling 1080p video. Zachstar is the only person saying otherwise. Probably because he doesn't know how to configure a HTPC. He keeps saying a 8200 is not enough but never says how it's not enough. What isn't it doing?
I've already posted links in another thread refuting everything he's said. If I had known he would continue to perpetuate this nonsense I would have saved all the links.

If you insist on a discrete card do not get a 4550. They have their own issues mainly related to post processing and lower HQV scores. You'd want a 4670. But again, it's not required.

 

[J-Will]

I would suggest, have a look at the example build at the end of this article here:
http://www.linuxtech.net/features/best_linux_htpc_motherboards.html

Thanks for the suggestion, I did go ahead an use that build as an example. Went with the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H, and E5300

Zach, I think you and I are on the same page with the onboard gfx. I did not get a vid card. I'm going to test out the waters with onboard, see if it'll handle what I'm trying to do first before I make the decision of getting a card.

Put in the order today, so it'll probably be here Mon

 

[Java Jack]

I have a PC with a E5300 and another one with a AMD 4850e (both are not HTPC just normal general purpose).

The E5300 is 50% faster than the AMD 4850e. while at the same time using less power at full load (tested myself doing a Handbrake transcode of the same source file, power use measured with a watt-meter).

THe new AMD Athlon X2 250 cpus are much better but still not as good as the E5300 or the new E6500 so currently Intel is the better choice for a low/medium range cpu.
(I'm not Intel or AMD fanboy, as you can see I own both, so please don't make this a Intel<>AMD flame-war).

I would suggest, have a look at the example build at the end of this article here:
http://www.linuxtech.net/features/best_linux_htpc_motherboards.html

Get one of the Intel mobos listed there, maybe increase the RAM to 4GB (as you are using Windows, not Linux) and maybe get a 1.5TB HDD (or two if you need plenty space) instead of the 1TB shown.
The Antec case listed in that example build is one of the quietest you can buy.

Such a build will do exactly what you want without costing more than 500$.

For IR just get a media center compatible receiver off ebay, they are really cheap there, I got a HP branded one off ebay for 12$ and it works great.

No offense intended, but it seems you are comparing apples to oranges here.

General purpose PC usage is not equivalent to HTPC usage. Speed is highly dependent on applications being run.

HTPC is more graphics dependent than CPU dependent unless you are doing a lot of transcoding, then it is more core dependent than frequency dependent.

HTPC is not about speed, it is about the right configuration for how it is going to be used.

I can build a very cost effective HTPC based upon the RS780 chipset that can easily handle Blu ray, HD content, flash based content, transcoding, etc. without breaking a sweat and do it for about $450 using dual core 45W CPUs. You want even faster transcoding, go to 65W quad cores for just a little more.

 

[tuxista]

HTPC is more graphics dependent than CPU dependent unless you are doing a lot of transcoding, then it is more core dependent than frequency dependent.

HTPC is not about speed, it is about the right configuration for how it is going to be used.

I'm aware of that, fact of the matter is that a E5300 uses LESS power (both at idle and at full load) than a 45W TDP 4850e, while at the same time being more powerful.
I know well it's perfectly possible to build a fine HTPC with a 4850e, even an Atom is enough with the right GPU (Nvidia ION)!
Intel's TDP ratings are very deceiving, they rate all C2Ds at 65W, while many are actually way below that.

I can build a very cost effective HTPC based upon the RS780 chipset that can easily handle Blu ray, HD content, flash based content, transcoding, etc. without breaking a sweat and do it for about $450 using dual core 45W CPUs. You want even faster transcoding, go to 65W quad cores for just a little more.

You certainly can, but if you go for 65nm AMD cpus (especially the 65W TDP ones) then your HTPC will consume considerably more energy when doing transcoding compared to an equivalent Intel cpu.

Luckily AMD has now brought out the new 45nm dual core cpus (Athlon X2 240/245/250) which are much better than the previous 65nm generation and mostly comparable to similar priced Intel cpus with regards to power draw and processing power.

 

[Java Jack]

I am not trying to start a debate on the value of one prop over another and I do respect your opinion. However, I do disagree with your conclusions.

Just as an FYI, I am very aware of what processors are coming out from AMD (see sig).

I am not sure what you are using to determine the power characteristics or if you are using documentation. Both AMD and Intel processors are typically using less power than spec. However, AMD and Intel take completely different tactics when specing power.

Intel specs Typical Power while AMD specs Max power in their documentation.

From an Intel Data sheet.

The case temperature is defined at the geometric top center of the processor. Analysis
indicates that real applications are unlikely to cause the processor to consume
maximum power dissipation for sustained time periods. Intel recommends that
complete thermal solution designs target the Thermal Design Power (TDP) indicated in
Table 26 instead of the maximum processor power consumption.

Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets. The TDP is not the maximum power that the processor can dissipate.

This table shows the maximum TDP for a given frequency range. Individual processors
may have a lower TDP. Therefore, the maximum TC will vary depending on the TDP of the
individual processor. Refer to thermal profile figure and associated table for the allowed
combinations of power and TC.

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/320467.pdf

Granted, TDP is more for heatsink guys to develop their thermal solutions based upon typical power draw and not max power.

From an AMD Data sheet
Thermal Design Power (TDP) is measured under the conditions of Tcase Max, IDD Max, and VDD=VID_VDD, and include all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDIO, VLDT, VTT, and VDDA.

http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/30430.pdf

AMD on the other hand is more conservative when it comes to specs. The goal here is to develop a thermal solution that would meet worse case scenario, not typical power usage even though the CPU would rarely hit max power.

I will be the first to admit that Intel does make some nice products. However, I don't agree with your conclusions on performance and power. However, you are certainly entitled to your view.

Now, I would not say that Intel is tricky in how they are spec'ing power, but it is a different approach than what AMD does.

So, what are you using to determine CPU power disspation in your comparrison?

 

[IDversusEGO]

I was thinking that with onboard video having to encode and decode and the same time, there might be dropped frames. .

The display adapter (aka video adapter or video card), whether it be on-board or a card, doesn't do the encoding. For recording TV the tuner card has the encoder on it. For encoding rips, the CPU handles that. All your display adapter does is decode for display purposes. The debate over video cards is purely about playback. The last time i looked ( a while ago admittedly) the mother board offerings without on-board video weren't much cheaper than with it so my suggestion is get the good on-board and upgrade if you need to.

 

[Archer75]

Thanks for the suggestion, I did go ahead an use that build as an example. Went with the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H, and E5300

Zach, I think you and I are on the same page with the onboard gfx. I did not get a vid card. I'm going to test out the waters with onboard, see if it'll handle what I'm trying to do first before I make the decision of getting a card.

Put in the order today, so it'll probably be here Mon

Building an HTPC is not like building a desktop. If you were building a gaming PC you wouldn't want onboard video. And the better the video card you buy the higher your FPS. This is not the case with an HTPC. A faster video card doesn't do anything for video. Rather it's the technology of the card. The number of stream processors can help with post processing. The clock speed means nothing.
In fact you don't even need a video card of HD offloading. You can do it entirely off of the CPU if it's fast enough without losing anything.
As long as the video card supports acceleration of the video formats you want to play then even the lowest end card can do it without breaking a sweat.

The key is setting up the software/codecs/filters properly.

 

[tuxista]

So, what are you using to determine CPU power disspation in your comparrison?

You probably missed it in my first post about this, I used a watt-meter (sometimes also called kill-a-watt) connected between the mains power cable and the wall socket.
I tested idle power consumption (waited several minutes until it stabilised on the lowest value) and I tested full load by running Handbrake transcoding a DVD to mkv.

TDP is not equal to power draw, so a lower TDP doesn't mean a lower power consumption as I clearly found with the 4850e.

Here is the details of the test like I reported them on a different forum some months ago:

trancoding of 1 chapter (2:53 min) of a DVD (VIDEO_TS folder on local hdd) to mkv with Handbrake svn 2284 on Mandriva Linux 2008.1 on each system (identical handbrake settings):

AMD 4850e (2.5GHz), 2x1GB DDR2-800 RAM, AMD 770 chipset
pass1: 69.18 fps
pass2: 12.19 fps
total transcoding time: 7:05 minutes

Intel E5300 (2.6GHz), 2x1GB DDR2-667 RAM, Intel 945GC chipset
pass1: 87.81 fps
pass2: 17.80 fps
total transcoding time: 5:01 minutes

That's a difference of approx. 40%!!

Also the AMD based system was running at 45Watts above idle power consumption while the Intel based system was running at only 23 Watts above idle power consumption.

My findings are nothing extraordinary, there are several comparisons done by well know websites that can confirm this.

Anyway, as we both said, the new 45nm generation of AMD cpus is much better and comparable to the 45nm Intel cpus.

 

[J-Will]

The display adapter (aka video adapter or video card), whether it be on-board or a card, doesn't do the encoding. For recording TV the tuner card has the encoder on it. For encoding rips, the CPU handles that. All your display adapter does is decode for display purposes. The debate over video cards is purely about playback. The last time i looked ( a while ago admittedly) the mother board offerings without on-board video weren't much cheaper than with it so my suggestion is get the good on-board and upgrade if you need to.

Thanks to you and Archer for the clarification. I knew all that, I just was not thinking about it. I'm thinking in terms of gfx loads games put on a GPU, and not breaking it down to all the specialized components in an HTPC.

Here is what I went with:

1 x ($108.45) CASE ANTEC|NSK2480 BK/SIL RT - Retail $108.45

1 x ($112.99) TV TUNER HAUPPAUGE 1229 HVR-2250 RT - Retail $112.99

1 x ($35.99) HD 80G|WD 7K 8M SATA2 WD800JD % - OEM $35.99

1 x ($129.99) MB GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H 9400 RT - Retail $129.99

1 x ($69.99) CPU INTEL|PDC E5300 2.6G 2M R - Retail $69.99

2 x ($4.99) CABLE OKGEAR|GC6HDMI1 % - OEM $9.98

1 x ($45.99) MEM 2Gx2|OCZ DII800 OCZ2G8004GK R - Retail $45.99

1 x ($124.99) BD-COMBO LG | CH08LS10 RT - Retail $124.99

Smallest non SSD HDD I could find for OS/ Utils only. I will not be storing media on a permanent basis on this drive. Everything else should be fairly self explainitory.

Now my question is, since I plan to have the HTPC and my 360 hooked up to a receiver through HDMI, and then from the receiver to the TV through HDMI; is there a way to play the 360 and have it shown on the TV but listen to music from the HTPC. I know the 360 can pick up shared content and I could stream through there. But if I want to skip a track or such I just want to hit the button on a remote instead of pausing the game (assuming I'm not on live) and waiting for the on screen controls to load, then hitting skip.

Its not a big deal if I cant, but when I have people over and we play FIFA or NCAA, who cares what the announcers are saying? I just want my music since I'm the home team

 

[Java Jack]

Sorry, I did miss the kill a watt statement.

However, again, apples/oranges. Kill a watt measures system power draw, not CPU. Therefore, it is hard to draw any substantial conclusions about CPU power draw based upon a watt meter. The systems would need identical configurations with only the CPU being different to have meaning.

 

[tuxista]

Sorry, I did miss the kill a watt statement.

However, again, apples/oranges. Kill a watt measures system power draw, not CPU. Therefore, it is hard to draw any substantial conclusions about CPU power draw based upon a watt meter. The systems would need identical configurations with only the CPU being different to have meaning.

That's why I stated power draw above idle power consumption for each of them, not absolute values.
That is a comparable value, if anything the E5300 was at disadvantage with the old inefficient 945GC chipset compared to the modern AM770 chipset.

 

[tuxista]

Here is what I went with:

1 x ($108.45) CASE ANTEC|NSK2480 BK/SIL RT - Retail $108.45
1 x ($112.99) TV TUNER HAUPPAUGE 1229 HVR-2250 RT - Retail $112.99
1 x ($35.99) HD 80G|WD 7K 8M SATA2 WD800JD % - OEM $35.99
1 x ($129.99) MB GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H 9400 RT - Retail $129.99
1 x ($69.99) CPU INTEL|PDC E5300 2.6G 2M R - Retail $69.99
2 x ($4.99) CABLE OKGEAR|GC6HDMI1 % - OEM $9.98
1 x ($45.99) MEM 2Gx2|OCZ DII800 OCZ2G8004GK R - Retail $45.99
1 x ($124.99) BD-COMBO LG | CH08LS10 RT - Retail $124.99

Good choice IMHO, you should be very happy with it, as long as you get all the software bits set up correctly.

 

[Java Jack]

That's why I stated power draw above idle power consumption for each of them, not absolute values.
That is a comparable value, if anything the E5300 was at disadvantage with the old inefficient 945GC chipset compared to the modern AM770 chipset.

But the power differences could be easily attributed to a poor BIOS implementation, a power hungry device in the system, component selection down on the motherboard, etc.

I would bet that a change in the motherboard to a different vendor with a different BIOS implementation could easily change the results.

Heck proper implementation of C1E alone could drop power draw from the wall by 15W. I have seen that with a simple BIOS update. Yet you seem convinced it is at the CPU. I don't think you can draw that conclusion with the tests you have run.

 

[tuxista]

But the power differences could be easily attributed to a poor BIOS implementation, a power hungry device in the system, component selection down on the motherboard, etc.

I would bet that a change in the motherboard to a different vendor with a different BIOS implementation could easily change the results.

Heck proper implementation of C1E alone could drop power draw from the wall by 15W. I have seen that with a simple BIOS update. Yet you seem convinced it is at the CPU. I don't think you can draw that conclusion with the tests you have run.

The test was at full load, BIOS/C1E don't matter at all at full load, other than that the systems were using the same hard disk (I moved it across) and the E5300 had a crappy noname PSU while the AMD system had an efficient Tagan TG400-U33 80+ PSU.

Besides that, my findings are consistent with similar findings that were published on well known hardware websites (don't have links handy, but a google search should find them easily).

It has been a well known fact that AMD had efficiency issues with it's 65nm cpu generation, they only overcame those issues with the new 45nm generation.

Anyway I still like my 4850e, as it supports ECC RAM (which I consider very important on my file server), while Intel doesn't support ECC RAM at all anymore, other than on some high-end chipsets (X48, X58).

 

[J-Will]

Good choice IMHO, you should be very happy with it, as long as you get all the software bits set up correctly.

Anything aside from ripping tools and the occasional codec (most should be in WMC correct)?

 

[Trepidati0n]

But the power differences could be easily attributed to a poor BIOS implementation, a power hungry device in the system, component selection down on the motherboard, etc.

I would bet that a change in the motherboard to a different vendor with a different BIOS implementation could easily change the results.

Heck proper implementation of C1E alone could drop power draw from the wall by 15W. I have seen that with a simple BIOS update. Yet you seem convinced it is at the CPU. I don't think you can draw that conclusion with the tests you have run.

You are grasping at straws. You are trying to throw enough crap out there and see what sticks. While those things you listed above might be contributers...the evidence points to that they are not a major component. This difference between the AMD and Intel system has been done by numerous people with numerous different motherboards. The result is typically the same, the Intel systems consumes less overall power. A few reasonable tests show that a large part of this is that the TDP of the processor is not a good gauge of expected system/processor power consumption even with similar chipsets.

It took me a while as well to get my hands around this. My next system, more than likely will be Intel for low performance needs even if they are more expensive. $10 more will easy be saved in a year in respect to lower consumption.

 

[tuxista]

Anything aside from ripping tools and the occasional codec (most should be in WMC correct)?

Sorry, I'm a 100% Linux guy, so can't help you there, unless you are talking Linux.

 

[IDversusEGO]

personally, I dont rip on my htpc. its for playback only. all I have installed that I can think of off the top of my head is sage tv, java, coreavc, ac3, dscaler. I do ripping and encoding on my quadcore main PC. and copy it over when done.

 

[Dangman]

You probably missed it in my first post about this, I used a watt-meter (sometimes also called kill-a-watt) connected between the mains power cable and the wall socket.

To be fair, Kill-A-Watts are not that accurate. Straight from the PSU editor here are [H]:

Yes and a quick search would turn up this topic a million times over. Here is the recap:

1) APFC can fool Kill-A-Watts into giving you abnormally low readings (some times giving better than 100% efficiency)

2) Power supplies derate with temperature anywhere from 2w/c above a nominal rated at value to 10w/c.

3) Kill-A-Watt's and most power meters sample too slowly to catch transient loads (the Transient load from our tests is 117w and is COMPLETELY missed by Kill-A-Watts).

4) Power supplies last longer if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

5) power supplies are quieter if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

6) Power supplies are cooler if you stay in the 40% to 60% range of their output.

The power meters in UPS software are just as bad. You have to spend some change before you get anywhere near an accurate power meter when your PSU has APFC.

Here's Paul Johnson's post about the inaccuracy of the Kill-A-Watt:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032190998&postcount=7

 

[Java Jack]

You are grasping at straws. You are trying to throw enough crap out there and see what sticks. While those things you listed above might be contributers...the evidence points to that they are not a major component. This difference between the AMD and Intel system has been done by numerous people with numerous different motherboards. The result is typically the same, the Intel systems consumes less overall power. A few reasonable tests show that a large part of this is that the TDP of the processor is not a good gauge of expected system/processor power consumption even with similar chipsets.

It took me a while as well to get my hands around this. My next system, more than likely will be Intel for low performance needs even if they are more expensive. $10 more will easy be saved in a year in respect to lower consumption.

Hmm, I am neither grasping at straws nor slinging crap as you say. I am merely stating simple observations as to how Intel and AMD take different approaches to power specs. I even provided links in datasheets that document the different approaches. I did not comment as to one method being better than the other, just different. I also think that there is enough system level impact to power measurement via Kill A Watt that it is not an accurate method to measure CPU power dissipation. This is highly evident in laptop design and why ODMs are very cautious about what they spec into the overall design because small changes in components can have significant impact on overall power draw. The same holds true with desktop designs as well.

I disagreed with Tuxista's conclusions but I still respected his opinion.

I am not sure why you seem to have an issue with that, but you are entitled to your opinion as well. I would expect each person to do their own research, draw their own conclusions and purchase whatever best meets their needs.

Reasonable people can disagree...I will leave it at that.

 

[J-Will]

Got the parts on Fri, had it built and running anout an hour later. I'm using the Win 7 RC x64, and so far it is working, though I have no ripped or encoded yet. I also have yet to test out the BR drive but I'm sure that will work fine once I get the playback software.

Everything works great, Thanks to everyone who helped me out.

I have a few questions now that it is built:

1) Is there a solution like Media Browser for audio? Something that will download album art and help organize the CDs visually. I really like the way Media Browser words for the videos and TV series.

2) I bought the tuner without the a remote thinking that I will get one of those logitech harmony remotes. And I see the ports on the tuner itself for the IR (on the I/O bracket), but what do I need to buy to get the remote to work?

3) Does the Onkyo 607 receiver allow for lets say my 360 to be played on the TV but listen to music from the HTPC, both of which are connected to the receiver through HDMI?

 

[SC385]

1) Is there a solution like Media Browser for audio? Something that will download album art and help organize the CDs visually. I really like the way Media Browser words for the videos and TV series.
You can try Music Browser and there is someone working on a Music plugin for media browser

2) I bought the tuner without the a remote thinking that I will get one of those logitech harmony remotes. And I see the ports on the tuner itself for the IR (on the I/O bracket), but what do I need to buy to get the remote to work?
The remotes built into the tuners aren't really worth a damn. You'll really want an official Microsoft remote and reciever or one of these. The one I linked to on amazon is the one I use and it works the same as the MS one but doesn't come with ports for IR transmitters for controlling STBs.

3) Does the Onkyo 607 receiver allow for lets say my 360 to be played on the TV but listen to music from the HTPC, both of which are connected to the receiver through HDMI?
I don't know if you can but you could always play the music through the 360 at the same time.

...

 

[IDversusEGO]

all good answers. to expound on #3 you need to enable media sharing in windows media player or MS's freely available zune software. then the xbox 360 will see the remote computer as an available music source and stream it over your network. this is assuming that the xbox 360 is on your network.

 

[rhouck]

2) I bought the tuner without the a remote thinking that I will get one of those logitech harmony remotes. And I see the ports on the tuner itself for the IR (on the I/O bracket), but what do I need to buy to get the remote to work?
The remotes built into the tuners aren't really worth a damn. You'll really want an official Microsoft remote and reciever or one of these. The one I linked to on amazon is the one I use and it works the same as the MS one but doesn't come with ports for IR transmitters for controlling STBs.

Just an FYI, he bought the 2250 and the remote that comes with it is a fully supported MCE remote and works great. Some tuners do come with garbage remotes (i.e. my old WinTV card) but the 2250 is not one of them.

Doesn't help him now, but for anyone else looking, the 2250 remote is an excellent solution.

 

[J-Will]

Thanks looks like that plug in is exactly what I want, I'll have to keep my eye on that.

2) It looks like all I need to get my hands on is IR receiver? Then I can use any MCE remote I want?

3)Playing through the 360 is an option and will probably be the fall back plan. However I was hoping to have complete control of the audio playback through remote. So mid game one would not have to pause, hit the middle button and change tracks (or whatever) that way. Instead I could just hit the 'next' button on the remote.

 

[IDversusEGO]

you cant blend the audio from two sources on any entry level receiver I know of. You could manually assign the audio source to something different than the video source I guess, but hten you would lose you game audio.

 

[SC385]

Just an FYI, he bought the 2250 and the remote that comes with it is a fully supported MCE remote and works great. Some tuners do come with garbage remotes (i.e. my old WinTV card) but the 2250 is not one of them.

Doesn't help him now, but for anyone else looking, the 2250 remote is an excellent solution.

Not all 2250's come with remotes. I think the one with the remote costs $30ish more than without. I think he also said he bought the one without and that it has the IR port though.

 

[J-Will]

you cant blend the audio from two sources on any entry level receiver I know of. You could manually assign the audio source to something different than the video source I guess, but hten you would lose you game audio.

Thats what I want. I want no sound from the game (it'll probably be a sports game such as Fifa or Madden, or SF IV) and just my music from the HTPC. Do you think thats is possible using HDMI as the two different sources, one for video and a different one for audio?

 

[J-Will]

Not all 2250's come with remotes. I think the one with the remote costs $30ish more than without. I think he also said he bought the one without and that it has the IR port though.

Correct mine is without. I thought I was buying the complete setup sans remotes (just the remote). I didnt know it was without the IR reciever and blaster as well. I just want to get an IR receiver I guess, so I can use a Logitch Harmony remote since I plan on using it with all my Onkyo and my TV. One multi purpose remote just sounds ideal.

 

[rhouck]

Not all 2250's come with remotes. I think the one with the remote costs $30ish more than without. I think he also said he bought the one without and that it has the IR port though.

Thus the "doesn't help him now" I was referring to the ones that do


As for the OP's question about 360 audio:
Instead of running the 360 HDMI into the receiver, you could run it to the TV and run optical out (or whatever your TV has) to the receiver. Yes you lose the tidiness of having only one cord from your receiver to the TV, but it seems like your only option.

Additionally it would give you the option of running the 360 through the TV speakers (say on low volume) if you wanted just a touch of game noise while still being able to use your receiver to play music from your HTPC.

 

[J-Will]

Is there an IR receiver and blaster that is MCE certified? I dont think I need a blaster yet, but I'd rather not worry about having to get one later.

Or is there a way to get the HVR-2250 remote hardware without it being bundled with the tuner?

 

[IDversusEGO]

I used to use a USB-UIRT. its a learning USB emitter/blaster.