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Reciever/amplifier suggestions

N

natpond

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
162
planning on buying an x-fi when it comes out in the coming weeks, but i am also building a new speaker system for my computer and home theater. I am lookign for a good reciever/amp to plug them into that will also have a good AM/FM tuner, as well as a good way to plug my computer into them. (im thinking optical... but give me suggestions on that as i know nothing abou sound equipment)
I am SUPER new to home audio, as this is my first endeavor (sp) in that area, but am very experienced with computers. tell me if you need any more info.

budget is $400 or less

Nat
 
is it $400 for the whole speaker/ receiver system or just for the receiver?

if it is for the receiver only i would recommend something from HK, specifically the 235. that would fall in that price range and is a really nice looking, powerful 7.1 receiver with all the connections and decoding possibilities you could ever want.
 
You will find a lot of people around hear recommend HK receivers ;)
I don't like their build quality one bit. They just speak cheap all throughout it to me.

I am partial to the Denon receivers. I went to the local circuitcity, and asked if the HK receiver had tone defeat (tone bypass)............. and to my amazement, it did not...........

Oh, and just a heads up, its not "soo" much the receiver, but the antenna type and placement that are the major factors. If your in a concreate room, it does'nt matter how good the receiver is if no FM radio waves enter the room. ^_^

As fastbu said, is 400$ just for the reciver?

Digital coaxial or optical will surfice for a digital connection.

@FastBu, you said the HK 235 had "all the decoding possibilities you could ever want"...... but it does'nt have THX..................... For an MSRP of 550$, it should.

Natpond, when you get back to us with the specifics of the budget, I can help you with the specifics.

~Keep us posted, and good luck
 
yeah, 400 is just for the reciever. and also just to clarify, a tuner is ansillary to the I/O and amplification that it provides. Ideally this would be purchased to start with 2 bookshelves and a woofer, and have the capabilites and the headroom to upgrade to a full surround-sound setup. also,a s i am new to this game, what do video inputs do on an audio reciever? i noticed they had them.

Thanks, Nat
 
dude, towert.... THX is a rating system developed by LucasArts which can be purchased by speaker companies (namely pc speaker companies) to be displayed on their merchandise, not a decoding algorithm.

so my statement stands, just about everything you'll want to decode can be done by the avr-235
 
looking at it online it looks nice... but is a little out of my budget... and by a little i mean $150. i am willing to pay that if you can convince me that tog et the features i want i should pay that. you know what i mean?
 
okay, i stand corrected, did alittle more researcha nd its on sale online for about 400, sweet. now can anyone address the build quality complaint above?
 
Personally I like Yamaha for surrond. I do still have an old Marantz for my stereo/records though :)
 
natpond said:
yeah, 400 is just for the reciever. and also just to clarify, a tuner is ansillary to the I/O and amplification that it provides. Ideally this would be purchased to start with 2 bookshelves and a woofer, and have the capabilites and the headroom to upgrade to a full surround-sound setup. also,a s i am new to this game, what do video inputs do on an audio reciever? i noticed they had them.

Thanks, Nat
Click to expand...
Most current receivers can also function as a video switch, which basically works like this.
If you have a VCR and DVD player, your TV "may" not be able to accept both at the same time.
If this is the case, you can connect them both to the receivers video "inputs", and through the receiver you can select the video souce to be sent to the "monitor" (usually TV) as output.

You can think of them as two diffrent switches. One for Audio, One for Video. What I mean by this is, if you have your DVD player audio and video hooked up to the receiver, you could actually listen to the audio while watching video from say......... The VCR (even if you are on the DVD setting). On most current receivers they are independent. Nifty.

As for your price range, I would personally look at the Denon AVR1705(685s), Denon AVR1905 (same as 1705 for almost everything execpt I/O), or Denon AVR2105. The 1705 can be had for around 270$, and the 2105 can be had for about 410$us. Check to see if any local audio stores carry them.
Even with their low priced 1705, you get such features as tone defeat (tone bypass), test tones for proper speaker setup, etc.

~Hope this helps, and keep us posted.
 
natpond said:
okay, i stand corrected, did alittle more researcha nd its on sale online for about 400, sweet. now can anyone address the build quality complaint above?
Click to expand...
Well, by build quality I mean the front of it has a lot of cheap plastics. I felt the volume knob and it was wobbly. Also, when looking at them at the local circuitcity, when I tried to turn down the volume really fast, they volume actually increased!!! I had to turn the knob really slow to get it to go lower. Strange. I have a funny feeling things like this will become common problems among the majority of them over time. (but who knows).
I also asked if it had a feature called Tone Defeat (tone bypass), and to my surprise it did not ~_~. It just does'nt seem like it was geared to high end audio listening.

Check them out for yourself if you want. After all, you will be the one making the purchase.

~Hope this helps, and good luck.
 
natpond said:
what is tone defeat?
Click to expand...
Most receivers have tone controls, like bass and treble. Tone defeat (tone bypass) is where the receiver will actually bypass the tone controls circuitry altogether. This means there is less circuitry to go through, thus "preserving" the origional audio better. It also means the audio is not getting changed.
When you have better speakers or headphones, it comes in handy. If you have really cheap headphones or speakers, you may find yourself wanting to adjust the tone controles to compensate for their problems. A common example is my dad likes to turn up the bass on his cheap speakers............ (even though it makes it worse sounding to me).

This can tanslate into hearing less noise (hiss/static). And when using headphones, noise is very noticible to me. Some actually say the music sounds better altogether.

~Hope this helps
 
The volume knob on my HK AVR-135 is isn't wobbly and if I turn the volume down really fast it doesn't increase the volume. Seems to work perfectly turning it up or down fast.

My HK AVR-135 has a button called "Tone Mode" and it changes from "Tone In" to "Tone out" and vice versa. Is this the samething we are talking about here? Should I have that set to "Tone Out"?
 
apparently it takes a rocket scientist to turn down the volume, but everytime ive turned the volume knob on my HK the volume has gone in the intended direction. there is no problem with build quality in the HK's. if you read reviews on cnet.com, or anywhere else for that matter they all rave about how sturdy and how heavy they are.
 
ds- said:
The volume knob on my HK AVR-135 is isn't wobbly and if I turn the volume down really fast it doesn't increase the volume. Seems to work perfectly turning it up or down fast.

My HK AVR-135 has a button called "Tone Mode" and it changes from "Tone In" to "Tone out" and vice versa. Is this the samething we are talking about here? Should I have that set to "Tone Out"?
Click to expand...
According to the offical Harman Kardon AVR135 owners manual, there is a feature called "TONE OFF".
Harmon Kardon said:
You may adjust the bass and treble tone controls
at any point during a listening session by simply
turning the Bass Controlor Treble Control
until the desired setting is achieved. You may
also totally remove the tone controls from the circuit
so that the output is “flat” at any time by pressing
the Tone Mode Button so that TONE OFF appears
in the on-screen display and the Lower Display
Line.
Click to expand...

I take back what I said eailer, I guess it does have a Tone defeat setting, and the audio rep at circuit city was incorrect............ go figgure.

It also has another section that says
Harmon Kardon said:
Tone Mode: Pressing this button enables or disables
the Bass and Treble tone controls. When the button
is pressed so that TONE IN appears in the
Lower Display Line, the Bass and Treble
controls may be used to adjust the output signals.
When the button is pressed once or twice so that the
words TONE OUT appear in the Lower Display
Line, the output signal will be “flat,” no matter how
the actual Bass and Treble Controls are
adjusted.
Click to expand...

ds-, if you have the tone controles set to their middle positions (bass and treble are neutral), then it would be better to use the tone out feature. If, though you like to change the bass and treble from neutral, then tone out is not what you want.
 
I have both settings in the middle and using Tone out now that I have this new found knowledge. Thanks.
 
My HK doesnt look cheap to me. Also, the volume knob is not the least bit wobbly.

I have said it before and Ill say it again, HK has AWESOME customer service. They will warrant a product as long as the original receipt is at hand even if it is the 10th owner.
 
My old yamaha receiver couldnt power the LSi speakers properly. It would shut down after running about an hour's worth of audio.

It got ridiculously hot too.... if you are going to run 8 ohm speakers, the Yammy is A-ok. If you are going to run some 4ohm speakers, then perhaps get the THX Yammys (1400/1500 series) or the HK.

If you want a real powerhouse, go separates. I'm sure you can find a used amp that does 5 channel for around $400. But come to think of it, you are going need a pre/proc not to mention a preamp... ahhh forget it.
 
Well, in summary, even though you "can" spend 400$ on a receiver, you have to say to yourself "Hm, would the extra money be better spent on the receiver, or better speakers?".

If you can find a receiver for 280$us that has all the features you need plus some... maybe the extra 120$ would be put to better use with some better speakers than a better receiver.

I recommend you look at eaither the Denon AVR685s or AVR1705 (same thing, diffrent color). Both can be had for about 260-280$us online. http://www.6ave.com/product.jsp?x=AVR685S

If you have a local tweeter audio store near you, you may be able to view it. They usually carry a lot of denon receivers.

I personally have the Denon AVR685s, and my dad has a little older AVR1801. Both have been flawless.

Lastly, like I said before, digital coaxial or optical........... it does'nt matter. What ever you want. A good 12' digital coaxial (double shielded) cable can be purchased for 16$us. Cheap enough. Ive always liked Acoustic Research cables, and the Pro II series is cheap enough.

~Hope this helps, and I'de like to know what you decide to go with.
 
I was looking at receiver purchases just like you not too long ago. Ultimately I went with the Denon 785s. Had I did it all over again, I'd still get a Denon, but maybe something higher up so that I could have more connectivity options. Of course that costs more.

When I was shopping, I was also concidering the Harmon and Karmon av235. Really I think that if you're going to be looking for high quality receivers Denon and HK are it (unless you're getting into REALLY high end studiofile sound).
 
from the posts it seems as though either way is great. Denon appears to have a higher build quality, but HK from what it looks like, gives you more I/O for your dollar. I think im going to go with the HK, but ill have to check them both out in person before i decide fully. Thanks for all your help guys, youve made my life alot easier.
also, ill let you all know which i ultimately settle upon and purchase.

Nat
 
It'll have plenty of power.
As for a subwoofer, it will be extremly inept to power a passive subwoofer. That will require an amp. However most likely you were thinking of a subwoofer that contains it's own amp, in which case the receiver will more than be enough.
 
uhh... yeah, one that has its own amp... sure. hehe, as you guys probabyl have noticed i know nothing about this stuff, so any tips (buying a sub with internal amp) is greatly appreciated as it will prevent me form making stupid mistakes (such as buying an un-amped woofer with this reciever)

as for the woofers with internal amps, is there any drawback to those? as opposed to an amp in the reciever or separate amp?

Nat
 
natpond said:
uhh... yeah, one that has its own amp... sure. hehe, as you guys probabyl have noticed i know nothing about this stuff, so any tips (buying a sub with internal amp) is greatly appreciated as it will prevent me form making stupid mistakes (such as buying an un-amped woofer with this reciever)

as for the woofers with internal amps, is there any drawback to those? as opposed to an amp in the reciever or separate amp?

Nat
Click to expand...
Amped subs usually have at least 3 features. The Power level (volume), cutoff frequency, and the phase shifter.

The possible drawbacks to having a powered sub are that you set the volume wrong................ that's about it. Basically, you will want to use the Preout (sometimes called a subwoffer pre out) to connect to a powered sub. This "preout" means that the signal is outputed before it gets amplified.

Just as a heads up, don't have your mind set on any specific speaker before you hear them. You may find the Polk Audio speakers to sound horrible for the price they charge...... and then again maybe you will find them to be the best thing since electricity. ^_^
I myself would not take a Polk Audio if it was given to me. ;) But that's just me.
 
what would you suggest for that same price range? i will, of course, listen to them before i buy, but i need a place to start. im looking at bookshelf speaker pairs that go AT OR BELOW $400.

Thanks,
Nat
 
I have not heard a speaker sound better for the price then the B&W 601 S3 or 600 S3 bookshelf speakers. Its a british made speaker, which is very neutral. Meaning it will not favor specific music over others. Paradigms are in the same price range, and have a diffrent sound, but I just personally prefer the B&W.
The 600's go for about 300$us a pair, the 601's go for about 380$us a pair. http://www.bwspeakers.com
Great thing with these, is that B&W has been able to put massive amounts of money into R&D which you usually don't find for cheap speakers. They can do this by selling their higher end models. Also, some of the technology found in their 20,000$ speakers trickle down to their cheaper speakers, such as the Nautilus technology.

You might want to see if a professional audio store sells them near you.
Not even the LSI bookshelfs at 1000$ a pair sounded as good to me. And that's saying something.
 
natpond said:
and they would work well with that reciever/ go well witha subwoofer?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what the price for a B&W subwoofer is.

Anyway, they will work with the receivers recommended because they are 8ohm.

You "may" find that you don't even need a subwoofer with them unless you demand the lowest extension.

Funny thing was, when I was listening to them at the store, they did'nt have as much bass as when I brought them home and set them up near the walls, the bass really improved. Speaker Placement with these bookshelfs will have a major effect on how they sound in the low end bass.

Well, now you pretty much have to just go listen to all the speakers your considering. Bring along a CD of music your familer with and enjoy yourself. And if you ever wanted to hear a fun speaker, have the people hook up the B&W 604 S3 ^_^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yee ha
 
natpond said:
and they would work well with that reciever/ go well witha subwoofer?
Click to expand...

Of course. B&W makes very clean high end systems that can be designed for a multitude of different purposes (all of which involve sound of course :p ).

B&W makes subwoofers, but if you're interested in quality base I'd look elsewhere. I, like everyone else am starting to become a HSU/SVS zealot.
 
anyone knwo of an intro to home audio somewhere ont he net? like what the ohms ratign means (i know what ohms are, i took physics in highschool/college, but how do they pertain to speakers and what difference does 8 ohms make from 4) allt hat stuff, likw hat the frequency ratings mean as to range, etc. as wella swhat to look for when buying speakers.
I am an AVID listener of music, much much much more than most people (i have close to 200 gigs of music on my computer to give you an idea) and have played the violin for close to 15 years now... what im saying is i am very picky about music and how it sounds and i have a very good ear, i just dont knwo anythign about speakers, when people said the klipsch pro media were good, i said okay and i bought them, etc. but now i want tostart delving into what makes my music soudn the way it sounds (knowing abot speakers, and audio equipment) so a good FAQ or intro would be VERY much appreciated so i can depend upon your suggstions, but start to educate myself for the future decisions i have to make.
 
natpond said:
anyone knwo of an intro to home audio somewhere ont he net? like what the ohms ratign means (i know what ohms are, i took physics in highschool/college, but how do they pertain to speakers and what difference does 8 ohms make from 4) allt hat stuff, likw hat the frequency ratings mean as to range, etc. as wella swhat to look for when buying speakers.
I am an AVID listener of music, much much much more than most people (i have close to 200 gigs of music on my computer to give you an idea) and have played the violin for close to 15 years now... what im saying is i am very picky about music and how it sounds and i have a very good ear, i just dont knwo anythign about speakers, when people said the klipsch pro media were good, i said okay and i bought them, etc. but now i want tostart delving into what makes my music soudn the way it sounds (knowing abot speakers, and audio equipment) so a good FAQ or intro would be VERY much appreciated so i can depend upon your suggstions, but start to educate myself for the future decisions i have to make.
Click to expand...

It's not free, but its a good all around book. It has chapters dedicated to equipment, like Preamps, amps, loud speakers, digital equipment....... etc.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-7363518-6455326?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Maybe see if your local library system has one you can request.

~Hope this helps
 
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natpond said:
anyone knwo of an intro to home audio somewhere ont he net? like what the ohms ratign means (i know what ohms are, i took physics in highschool/college, but how do they pertain to speakers and what difference does 8 ohms make from 4) allt hat stuff, likw hat the frequency ratings mean as to range, etc. as wella swhat to look for when buying speakers.
I am an AVID listener of music, much much much more than most people (i have close to 200 gigs of music on my computer to give you an idea) and have played the violin for close to 15 years now... what im saying is i am very picky about music and how it sounds and i have a very good ear, i just dont knwo anythign about speakers, when people said the klipsch pro media were good, i said okay and i bought them, etc. but now i want tostart delving into what makes my music soudn the way it sounds (knowing abot speakers, and audio equipment) so a good FAQ or intro would be VERY much appreciated so i can depend upon your suggstions, but start to educate myself for the future decisions i have to make.
Click to expand...

Doing a quick google search I found this:
http://www.rane.com/digi-dic.html
It appears to be a home audio dictionary, I looked up a few things really quick it seems to be useful enough. I recommend you just search for things as you go along. It's really the best way to learn and it will all stick with you better that way.
 
thanks so much guys, you all have been so helpful. Know that your efforts are greatly appreciated and considered. I am set ont he HK reciever, and i am looking at BW and Polk speakers. ill let you guys know what i decide as to the speakers, the BW ones just LOOK better made, i dont know if thats just me. but im not counting the Polks out that easy (i hevent heard or seen eaither of them in person!)

Nat
 
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