Raspberry Pi is shipping!!!

Discussion in 'All non-AMD/Intel CPUs' started by Stoly, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. @dmin

    @dmin Gawd

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    Realistically you would be better off with the beagle board stuff as there development has been more dynamic because of changes they made for corporate customers. RPi will prob ably be to static for a corporate backer to get on board.
     
  2. mrgstiffler

    mrgstiffler [H]ardForum Junkie

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    These are more geared towards development and taking the place of some micro controller duties. That's why they have GPIO.
     
  3. AgentQ

    AgentQ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Definitely. The Raspberry Pi has been a runaway success so far, but I'm surprised at just how many people are buying one for all the wrong reasons. It's a great platform for learning about Linux, embedded systems programming, etc. but it's going to make for an awful desktop.

    Running anything from an SD Card is a miserable experience. You know the speedup you get going from a mechanical HDD to an SSD? Switching to an SD Card is like going in the opposite direction. Latency is awful. IOPs are incredibly low. Sustained throughput is decent if you get an expensive card, but that's not going to help for OS tasks. On all of ARM boards that I use for active development (console only) I attach a small SSD via USB and do everything out of a chroot on the SSD. It's a night and day difference in usability, even on just the console. It's also possible on most platforms to have the boot loader load the OS from a USB attached SSD, but it's not trivial at this point.

    Also, driver and software support is going to be a painful uphill battle. I work a lot with Beagleboards and Pandaboards, which have been out for quite a while, and anything beyond basic driver support is still very sketchy. Expect to spend a lot of times combing through forum threads and on IRC if you're doing anything beyond using pre-packaged OS images.

    On the other hand, if you're looking to actually learn about embedded systems and Linux then this is a great platform. There are going to be plenty of opportunities to work with open source projects, learn about the whole software stack from boot loader through Linux kernel, and tweak things at a very low level. The SD card makes this un-brickable, so a clean system is just one reformat away. Awesome platform for learning and experimenting.

    If you're looking for a general-purpose system to do X task, this probably isn't it. Even for XBMC, the onboard MPEG2 decoder isn't licensed by the R-Pi foundation, so you're limited to what you can decode. And like I said, anything with a user interface is going to be painfully laggy without some workarounds due to the SD Card primary storage. Also, keep in mind this is just a bare board unless you buy a case.
     
  4. tamngoman

    tamngoman Limp Gawd

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    does anyone know any alternative to raspberry pi?
     
  5. AgentQ

    AgentQ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pandaboard ($200) is the way to go if you can afford it. Best balance of modern hardware with decent driver support.

    BeagleBoard ($150) and BeagleBone ($100) are more mature but slower and less feature rich.

    There are several newcomers (ODROID-X, Gooseberry, etc.) but do not purchase anything cutting edge unless you enjoy messing with kernels, compiling code, applying patches from mailing lists, etc. Support is generally terrible with immature and niche ARM boards. For example, the Pandaboard is one of the few ARM boards listed as a target platform for Ubuntu 12.04, but you have to jump through hoops (adjusting CPU frequency governor) just to get it stable enough to last more than a day without crashing. And that's as good as it gets for out of the box support right now.

    Nothing is going to match the price of the Pi, though. The price is what makes it so attractive. If you're looking for something cheap to hack on, consider grabbing one of the cheap micro controller platforms. If you're looking to hack on Linux, you can always get started in an emulator until your Pi shows up.
     
  6. tamngoman

    tamngoman Limp Gawd

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    haha sweet, ill actually look into pandaboard. there is like no Pi shipping :[
     
  7. Dasuchin

    Dasuchin n00b

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    Ordered mine but it hasn't shipped yet. How long is it taking for everyone to get it?
     
  8. The Donut

    The Donut 2[H]4U

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    Got mine today.

    Will be looking at getting AirPlay running on it and then integrating it into the Cadillac's entertainment system to allow me to AirPlay audio & video!
     
  9. Gomjaba

    Gomjaba [H]Lite

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    I got mine sitting nicely inside as HP MicroServer as router / VPN / NFS and DHCP server using a second USB nic (running Raspbian 14). Love that little beauty (and sits at a load of 0.08 at 800Mhz and 224/32MB memory split)
     
  10. LTR

    LTR Limp Gawd

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    Anyone have a case recommendation? I'm finally getting mine on Monday. Probably just going to use it stand alone to mess around with programming, so I'd like to get a decent case to keep it safe.
     
  11. Origin_Unknown

    Origin_Unknown Limp Gawd

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    hopefully mine will ship within the next two weeks - no idea when though
     
  12. MajorDomo

    MajorDomo [H]ard as it Gets

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  13. The Donut

    The Donut 2[H]4U

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    A 4 year old thread necro, really?
     
  14. Ozzman

    Ozzman [H]Lite

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    You brought it back to life. My how much has changed in 4 years though
     
  15. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    He didn't, it was a bot post which was deleted.
    Also, you just res'ed the thread again nearly a month later, so... (y)
     
  16. kniwor

    kniwor [H]Lite

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    Resurrecting an old thread - Any news on the latest update on the Pi?
     
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  17. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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  18. kniwor

    kniwor [H]Lite

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    Indeed, there is likely an appropriate external reference to most questions.

    My post was more to foster a discussion around what the good people [H] thinks is coming next for Pi, and possibly other small computers. Someone always has some interesting point of view on future direction of these things in tech - and I'd like to hear it.
     
  19. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I would check this thread on ARM processors in general:

    https://hardforum.com/threads/arm-server-status-update-reality-check.1893942/page-2
     
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  20. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    The Nvidia Jetson Nano completely obviates any need to buy Pi, or the next generation of Pi, unless you need the standard hardware adapter. It's a cheap board from a major vendor with vastly-superior performance to anything Pi, and it actually has a future upgrade path (to TX2).

    Raspberry Pi will always be produced on two-generations-old process node to cut costs (which is why they have trouble with overheating with just four A53s), and was really intended as a promotional product for Broadcom (which is why they released it so cheap in such small quantities). Pi.org can keep hacking around it's limitations by stacking on more CPUs, I don't think there's any project to replace the chipset and video core with something brand-new. To Broadcom, the job it intended to do is done. Since VideoCore use in products has mostly died anyway, so there's very little reason for them top press-on with a revamp. And while Pi could switch to something newer, it's doubtful they would get the same sweetheart licensing deal, and even if they did, they would have to design a compatibility layer to deal with the chipset transition, which adds costs.

    You're left to your own devices if you want something significantly better, but luckily there's now wide support for ARM on Linux. You don't have to stay in the little Pi House with the Training Wheels of Raspbian permanently attached - just buy the Nvidia Jetson Nano for $100, and be done wondering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  21. kniwor

    kniwor [H]Lite

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    Interesting view - I looked at the Jetson nano, and I am wondering how the support and power draw is.

    My use case for Pi is basically to just attach a couple of cheap portable HDDs and use as a 24/7 online backup server with something like owncloud. Benefit of Pi is that raspbian is mature, and has quite the community around it.
     
  22. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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  23. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    But the downside of Pi is, it's so mature that the reason you are posting in this thread is, it's not modern enough for you. Like the I/O limits of a USB 2 I/O backplane.

    The PI 3 b plus can hit 5w at full-load, but it hits just 1.75w at idle.

    pi-power-consumption-model-3-b-plus.png

    The Jetson is using a much more advanced 20nm process node, and has a better more modern power management, so it actually uses less power at idle:

    .

    The Cut-down Nano version peaks at just 10w, because it has half the CUDA cores, and a few hundred mhz slower CPU. But it still destroys Pi 3 Plus.

    https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-...dule-drives-next-wave-of-autonomous-machines/
     
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  24. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    That is true overkill.

    It's a pretty good deal for a system with dual 10GE (if you need such a thing), but overpriced for "people looking for something much better than a Pi. " The Nano fits that description, with a real PCIe backplane, 1Gbps networking, USB 3.0 ports, and HDMI 2.0b, for $99.

    Who needs 16GB ram for a media server? You also have to pay for that ram stick, while the 4GB ram is included on the Nano.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  25. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I would say for Plex it would be really useful, but not sure if the CPU would keep up with it.
    It would be great for Aarch64 VMs, though, at least for a small dev environment.
     
  26. kniwor

    kniwor [H]Lite

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    whateverer Thanks, that's awesome detail!

    Reading more into this, it seems Jetpack supports Ubuntu - which is pretty critial to success (some kind of debian support). But are the binaries built for this architechture? Can I just do "sudo apt-get install xxx" or do I need to compile the applications.

    You're seriously making me consider an upgrade!


    EDIT: One more question - what are your thoughts on also using the Jetson to double as a 4k video player in addition to Owncloud server?

    EDIT2: Looks like the CPU is ARM - so should be good on the sudo apt-get part if I understand correctly
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  27. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    It runs Quad ARM A57s, instead of Quad A53s. Same ARM64 architecture as the Pi, just up to 3x faster.

    The application code should work just fine from one CPU to the next, but you'll need to change the kernel driverset for each board.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  28. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    Plex isn't RAM dependent at all. 4-8GB is plenty.
     
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  29. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If a RAMdisk is used for Plex so it isn't using a slow HDD or burning through the write-cycles on flash storage, 16GB definitely helps.
     
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  30. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    Fair enough.
     
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  31. kniwor

    kniwor [H]Lite

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    whateverer
    So I got the Jetson nano, and trying to use it now.

    However, my fears about small computers other than Pi are slowly coming true. It is definitely a great powerful little thing - but support is really poor and things are broeken everywhere it seems.

    Installed Jetpack 4.2, and iptables match rules do not work on this installation. Appears to be an issue with how nVidia compiled the kernel. This has already sucked a lot of my time. If you have the nano, see if you can get something like this to work:
    sudo iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner <some username> -j DROP​
     
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