Raptor 150 upgrade from raptor 740?

[isp]

Wow, you got robbed. I got a pair for 200 SHIPPED With 4 years of warranty left. For me it was DEFINITELY a no-brainer...

nobody got robbed, you just happened to get a really good deal from someome who must of been really hard up for cash...

 

[fugu]

These guys don't think the GamePC results mean much because they're not Real World game benchmarks.

I guess my question for you is, why do you think a low level benchmark is a better performance indicator than a high level application benchmark that tests with programs that most people actually use?

 

[devman]

unhappy_mage, why would they do that? I detect some loathsomeness in your statement. Why do you detest them so?



These guys don't think the GamePC results mean much because they're not Real World game benchmarks.

This isn't really a debate, because well, the devices will be same regardless of what you believe about Raid0, the devices are what they are and nothing more. If you want harddrives that put up pretty numbers in HDTach, by all means, go for it, buy 2 74GB raptors and raid them. If you want something that actually preforms in a real life test that is much closer to the characteristics exhibited by desktop usage and gaming, get a single 150.

 

[handyrandyrc]

I know, why not return them and go buy eleventy 20 GB hard drives and STRIPE the whole thing? Because, heck, more drives must be faster, right???

Who cares that you'll be able to heat your home, and make the power sag in your neighborhood -- you'll have the bestest!

Now it will be eleventy-times more likely to fail, but hey it'll be fast! You should put some yellow stripes on your case to show everyone just HOW fast it is.

Your arguments are asinine. People who have experience are telling you that your idea is dumb, and you blow them off. Do whatever you want, so we can all laugh.

 

[gman]

I guess my question for you is, why do you think a low level benchmark is a better performance indicator than a high level application benchmark that tests with programs that most people actually use?

I don't necessarily. I think they should be looked at together. I guess I'm interested in why does low level give a more favorable result to the 2 74s and application gives it to 1 150. If someone could explain that or I've missed it in the discussion, I'll shutup.

I'd like to see some more application benchmarking beyond what was put up in this forum. Answer me this, are you going to RAID 2 150s to attain more speed beyond a single 150, or does it not increase it? Honest question.

 

[gman]

I know, why not return them and go buy eleventy 20 GB hard drives and STRIPE the whole thing? Because, heck, more drives must be faster, right???
Who cares that you'll be able to heat your home, and make the power sag in your neighborhood -- you'll have the bestest!
Now it will be eleventy-times more likely to fail, but hey it'll be fast! You should put some yellow stripes on your case to show everyone just HOW fast it is.
Your arguments are asinine. People who have experience are telling you that your idea is dumb, and you blow them off. Do whatever you want, so we can all laugh.

I guess you've put me in my place, I'll scamper away now.

Also, Mr. handyrandy, I happen to teach this type of stuff in college.

Do you know what college is?

 

[dekard]

I guess you've put me in my place, I'll scamper away now.

Also, Mr. handyrandy, I happen to teach this type of stuff in college.

Do you know what college is?

I thought college was were people were taught to be better people. Not more educated assholes. Evidently I'm wrong though.

 

[dekard]

Your arguments are asinine. People who have experience are telling you that your idea is dumb, and you blow them off. Do whatever you want, so we can all laugh.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this thread.

To The Original Poster: WWW.STORAGEREVIEW.COM is the authority... Read no more..

 

[fugu]

I'd like to see some more application benchmarking beyond what was put up in this forum. Answer me this, are you going to RAID 2 150s to attain more speed beyond a single 150, or does it not increase it? Honest question.

I think our thesis is that generally speaking, RAID0 doesn't increase application level performance on desktop computers.

I personally will be running a single 74 gig Raptor (once I have time to put my new system together) and don't ever plan on using RAID0, regardless of price. For me, the performance gains would be negligible and it just increases the chance of a failure somewhere in the setup. To add a little perspective, I spent around $500 on a SCSI setup with a Seagate Cheetah x15-36LP about 4 years ago, so I'm not adverse to paying a lot for hard disks; I just don't think RAID0 is worth it.

 

[fugu]

I thought college was were people were taught to be better people. Not more educated assholes. Evidently I'm wrong though.

Keep your arguments civil or go find another forum...

 

[unhappy_mage]

unhappy_mage, why would they do that? I detect some loathsomeness in your statement. Why do you detest them so?

Because they're doing a terrible job of informing the public on the advantages, disadvantages, and complications with RAID. I'll unblacklist them for a minute to dig up some examples. First, when you go to their frontpage, what do you see? "Please buy our stuff". Their review of the 3ware 9550sx (which is what set me off on the wrong foot with them) was terrible - look at the graphs of DiskBench results. There are no patterns in the data, the graphs aren't labeled, and it's generally a confusing experience to try to get anything out of it. They run HDTach two ways, and DiskBench two ways, but no real-world applications. Then in their review of the Seagate 7200.9, they gush about how good 230 MB/s burst transfer rate is, and neglect to mention that you can hit that for a good fifteenth of a second before you drop back down to media transfer rates. That's just dumb.

Finally, I don't HATE HATE HATE gamepc, I would just strongly recommend ignoring them, especially when other sites do repeatable, real-world testing and come up with different results. Storagereview is king, as far as I'm concerned; they have consistent test structure, and they've even got a long discussion of what they do and why.

Also, Mr. handyrandy, I happen to teach this type of stuff in college.

Do you know what college is?

I guess you seem to know what being a jerk is. If you're a college professor, why have you not progressed beyond a 12 year old level of argument?

 

[gman]

I guess you seem to know what being a jerk is. If you're a college professor, why have you not progressed beyond a 12 year old level of argument?

Sorry, I apologize for that one. Yes, I do teach college and the statement just got under my skin.

Thanks fugu for your answer and mage you too. Sorry, I've been beating a dead horse here, but I guess I'm a bit frustrated since I just purchased 2 74s and then everyone here seems to think it's not worth it to RAID anymore. Which 150 is the one to get for desktop then? The Raptor X or the other?

 

[handyrandyrc]

You're talking to a bunch of guys who fantasize about being able to build a system like you're building. You're asking what WE would do in your situation. Most agree they'd return the drives and get a single 150.

We don't care what you end up doing in the end. You will do what you will do. We're just telling you what WE would do in the same circumstances -- you seem to want to fight our opinions and justify your own.

Just do what you like. We won't laugh -- I was just being funny back there. If you like the pair of WD 74s - cool. They should work fine for ya.

 

[handyrandyrc]

Sorry, I apologize for that one. Yes, I do teach college and the statement just got under my skin.

Thanks fugu for your answer and mage you too. Sorry, I've been beating a dead horse here, but I guess I'm a bit frustrated since I just purchase 2 74s and then everyone here seems to think it's not worth it to RAID anymore. Which 150 is the one to get for desktop then? The Raptor X or the other?

Raptor X has 750k hour MTBF, and the standard Raptor 150 has a 1.5 million hour MTBF. I don't know the performance difference. Again, perhaps Storagereview.com knows..

 

[unhappy_mage]

I'm not saying that two disks isn't worth it; just that two disks *in raid 0* isn't worth it. Running the OS and applications (Office, etc) on one and games on the other can provide a boost, depending of course on the game. Raid 0 hurts the disk's caching algorithms and increases latencies, so it works against the design of the Raptor, where those things are key. The Raptor isn't much faster (if any) than a modern SATA disk in straight linear reads, so that can't be what makes it faster.

BTW, I'm involved in college, too - guess which side of the desk I'm on

 

[handyrandyrc]

I'm not saying that two disks isn't worth it; just that two disks *in raid 0* isn't worth it.

Agreed. Plus you're doubling your chances for a disk failure by striping.

 

[fugu]

Sorry, I apologize for that one. Yes, I do teach college and the statement just got under my skin.

Thanks fugu for your answer and mage you too. Sorry, I've been beating a dead horse here, but I guess I'm a bit frustrated since I just purchased 2 74s and then everyone here seems to think it's not worth it to RAID anymore. Which 150 is the one to get for desktop then? The Raptor X or the other?

You could put your OS on one and your swap file on the other? If you go the 150 route, I think the RaptorX is the desktop version of the drive.

I wouldn't worry too much about it though, you'll have a fast system either way.

 

[gman]

Thanks guys. I'll ponder what to do once I get the replacement drive for the one I had to return.

 

[silentwolf]

Thanks for all your help guys, I am pretty sure I have figured out what I am going to do.

I have a pair of 36GB raptors in my old desktop, that I could easily pull and put into my new rig if I want. Other then that, I am going to send back my 74's and grab one of the 150's instead.

I do have one question though, with the windows swap file, if I set my system up so that I have 2 36GB raptors in raid 0, and the one raptor 150 just straight up connected to the system. How should I handle my games and windows with the swap file? I have a seperate 320 GB WD for storage duties, so storage should not be considered here. What setup of files will give me the best performance there? Should I just put windows and all my games on the 150, or should I split it between the drives for the sake of the swap file?

 

[ekard]

If you already have another storage drive, there is no reason you should have 2x36 (raid 0) and a 150 Raptor in the same computer. Ditch the 36's once you get the 150.

If you have the room, it'll probably be good to have your swap file and some programs on the 320. If you really only use it for file storage, just put everything on the 150. That would still be better than the 2x36 raid setup.

 

[silentwolf]

I just filled out my RMA request for newegg, and they are going to slap a 15% restocking fee on me to return the drives. The restocking fee for me is about 46 dollars, plus about 7 to ship it back to them, we are talking about throwing away 50 dollars here, just to get my money back for the drives

As much as a raptor 150 might be slightly better, I dont know if I want to throw 50 bucks to the wind for one...

 

[handyrandyrc]

I just filled out my RMA request for newegg, and they are going to slap a 15% restocking fee on me to return the drives. The restocking fee for me is about 46 dollars, plus about 7 to ship it back to them, we are talking about throwing away 50 dollars here, just to get my money back for the drives

As much as a raptor 150 might be slightly better, I dont know if I want to throw 50 bucks to the wind for one...

Not worth it then if they want 50 bucks for a restocking fee. Just set 'em up and be done with it! Good choice, then.

 

[arentol]

I just filled out my RMA request for newegg, and they are going to slap a 15% restocking fee on me to return the drives. The restocking fee for me is about 46 dollars, plus about 7 to ship it back to them, we are talking about throwing away 50 dollars here, just to get my money back for the drives

As much as a raptor 150 might be slightly better, I dont know if I want to throw 50 bucks to the wind for one...

Too put it all in perspective, you already threw a bunch of money to the wind when you bought Raptors in the first place, so you may as well throw a little more!

 

[fugu]

Are you the type of person who would be bothered by the disks not being the best/fastest? If so, might as well spend the 50 bucks. If not, just use your disks, enjoy your system, and don't think about how slow it'll be in a year and a half