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Random lockups, please help

J

JMJ

n00b
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
31
System specs:

Hardware:
ATI X800XT-PE video
Asus K8V deluxe mobo
A64 3700+ CPU
Patriot 2x1GB PC3200 ram
2x80GB Maxtor drives, RAID 1
1x200GB IDE HD
1 external USB 2.0 500GB WD Mybook HD
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 480W Power Supply

Software: Windows XP Pro SP2

I am having more and more frequent lockups on my system, they probably started to happen over a month ago. It would be 1 a week, now it's 2 or more a day and I am at my wit's end trying to figure out what the problem is. Here is what I've tried:

memtest86 - no errors on the RAM
cpu burn - no errors there.
scandisk - disks show no errors
virus scan
spyware scan

Today I had my wife remove the external WD HD to see if that might be an issue. I had her remove it after the 2nd lockup of the day. The lockups never happend with the system in use, they have ONLY happened when the system is idle. You can be using it, get up to go get something to drink, come back and the lights on the keyboard and mouse are gone. There is no response. I never thought of trying to unplug the keyboard and plug it back in, but the system just appears to be hung. You can still see all your stuff on the desktop.

Can any of you who have experienced similar problems share what you did to try and find the issue? I'm normally good at finding problems, but this one has me baffled. This system has been rock stable for more than 2 years (no overclocking on anything). The only new software that has been installed as of late is Adobe Photoshop Elements and some windows updates, nothing else.

Would it be worth it for me to swap the SATA connections on my RAID 1 drives to see if maybe the primary drive does indeed have an issue? I will admit that I run RAID 1 but have no clue how to deal with it if I did have a HD failure.

Any insight any that any of you could provide would be GREATLY appreciated, thanks.
 
Two suggestions.

1: have you removed all of yoru start up items in Msconfig to make sure its not a background item that is hosing you.

2: are there any errors in your event log?
 
To sound like an extreme PC repair person: Reformat the hard drive and install Windows XP again.

But in case you don't want to do that, have you tried reverting to a previous system restore point?

Oh and to access the event log, go to start => Run => type "eventvwr" => Ok.
 
I'm going to check out the eventlog when I get home. So far my wife has said that there have been no more lockups after removing the external drive. I guess it wouldn't surprise me if that was it, I've seen USB items do strange things. Could it be some low power state that it enters that sends some odd signal to the system causing the hang?
 
Gruntled Employee said:
Make sure the power cable to the video card is not shared by anything else if it is a standard molex connector.
Click to expand...

That hasn't been changed in years.....believe it or not, it doesn't lockup on me during gaming, only when idle.
 
One other possibility is an IRQ conflict...I've had devices with issues that eluded me for months due to it being a shared IRQ conflict.
 
device manager rigt click on the computer icon at the top of list and view by rescources. you may find the video card and something sharing an IRQ...for me it was my soundcard and to cure it all I did was had to move it down 1 slot.
 
Well, no good news. The system never locked at all yesterday. Then after I quit gaming last night and just left it on, it locked. rebooted it and left it on for a while and it locked again, always when not in use. I checked IRQ conflicts, all USB items appear to be on IRQ 21. Nothing else is shared. The event viewer doesn't really tell me anything either. I'm going to try running off the other HD in my system and see what that does.
 
Im so sad and glad to have come across your post. I have been looking up the fix to something exactly the same for about a month now.

The lockups seem to be getting more frequent and I have done almost everythign I can to fix it.

I ran all the usual tests.. and nothing came up positive.

I have taken every single pci card out, unplugged the cd rom drives, unplugged all usb devices, and still Im getting lockups.

The event viewer doesnt say anything, and windows itself doesnt even see the lockup.

I have replaced the CPU, graphics card, and hard drive.. During the installation of drivers the computer locked up...

Its insane too, because I can game for hours and not see a lockup, but as soon as I do something simple or leave it idle, the computer will lock up.

Something weird about the lockups is that the usb mouse I have will not have power during the lockup. I have a ps2 keyboard, and caps lock doesnt respond but the keyboard itself has power.

I am banking on either the MOBO or the Power supply, since its the only things I havent replaced yet.

Its not just windows either, it has locked up booting windows as well as a lockup once during memtest.

Im going to try to run a linux boot cd for a hour or so to see if it locks up. If it does, maybe this will help?
 
I would put your money next on a much beefier power supply judging by all the stuff running 480Watts would barely cut it. Also watch the brand of power supply, cheap power supplies will hose you every time.
 
Well, I ran a distro of linux (P.H.L.A.K.) and simply booted to the GUI, and put up a web browser with an animated .gif and just left it. About an hour later I noticed the Gif wasnt moving anymore... dead lockup, usb mouse is once again disconnected.


Power supply huh? Continuous strain could have hurt it I bet. I do leave this pc on 24/7.

Ill look into a 500 watt with atleast 3 seperate rails.. since I will be adding this extra hardrive I bought lmao.


Sorry for hijacking your post!

Have you tried dissabling hybernation and ups settings if you dont have a ups?
 
Okay, have an update. All I did were two things: Swapped the SATA connectors so I am running off the mirrored drive, and I disabled the power save mode for the monitors. For the last 2 nights I have had zero lockups.

Is it possible that one drive can have a corrupt file and the other doesn't? Can someone who is RAID 1 knowledgable answer this one for me? If that is possible I need to find out of I can make the backup drive copy onto what used to be my primary drive, fixing that possible problem.

Thoughts?
 
>>disabled the power save mode

My bet is that it was the power saving causing the lockups, and nothing to do with the drives.
Why would a corrupt file only cause a lockup when the system is idle?

The way you described the problem, a screen saver or power saving issue was my first thought. If you had turned off power saving and still got the lockups, I would have looked at the PSU as others have mentioned. Crappy PSUs are often guilty of causing lockups.

EDIT: >>Is it possible that one drive can have a corrupt file and the other doesn't? Can someone who is RAID 1 knowledgable answer this one for me?

While it's possible for RAID-1 to get out of synch, you'd be having a lot more serious and consistent crashing with that type of problem. It's been a while since I've seen RAID-1 get out of synch though and I deal with a lot of servers that use RAID-1.
 
Yeah, but here's the kicker. It locked up many times while sitting in windows, no screensaver or power saving mode active. I just shut those down to try and eliminate any possible problems.....it's still really unexplainable to me.
 
Ok, if you can turn off the screen saver and power saving (all of it) and still get lockups, then as I said, it's time to look at the PSU. Make sure all temps look ok first.

You said Memtest passes ok?
 
Spartacus said:
Ok, if you can turn off the screen saver and power saving (all of it) and still get lockups, then as I said, it's time to look at the PSU. Make sure all temps look ok first.

You said Memtest passes ok?
Click to expand...

Yeah, no issues with memtest at all, not a single error. That's always the first place I go with strange computer issues.

Gonna head over to the storage forum to ask a few questions.
 
Hmmm....how close are your hard drives stacked...could it be a heat issue with the top drive not getting sufficient cooling? try running them outside the case for the hell of it. I feel the answer can't be that complicated, what about disk defragmenting? lock ups?...also how full is the main drive...ensure that you don't have insufficient swap file issues.
 
Gruntled Employee said:
Hmmm....how close are your hard drives stacked...could it be a heat issue with the top drive not getting sufficient cooling? try running them outside the case for the hell of it. I feel the answer can't be that complicated, what about disk defragmenting? lock ups?...also how full is the main drive...ensure that you don't have insufficient swap file issues.
Click to expand...

Well, it's definitely not heat issues and plenty of HD space. However, I just had another lockup as I was reading a webpage. So, my problems are not over. I'm pretty clueless at this point, I do not know what else to try :(

I'm pretty bummed, I just don't know what to do and having to constantly reboot is going to get really annoying. I don't even know if a full reinstall of windows will fix it, it really seems hardware related.
 
ive tried a new installation on a new hardrive and it still did it... power supply is going to be replaced when i get some money.

the heat shouldnt be a problem.. I have a front fan pulling air, and one to the side of the hardrive on the side case pulling air right next to it.

I also was trying to pull files from the hardrive I thought at one time was failing (I thought that was the problem) outside the case and upside down on a icepack and it still froze. So heat isnt the issue at all.

If I buy the powersupply and it isnt the problem, im going to be very frustrated.
 
do what I did so we can be on the same page.. boot into a linux distro (phlak is perfect for this) with a gui thats easy, and load a webpage with an animation. Leave the pc alone for awile and see if it locks up.

I did this, unplugging all unessasary fans, and hardware and I still got a lockup.

The only things left on my list are the mobo and the powersupply.
 
The first time I didn't have lockups for a few days I had unplugged my USB joystick. I was just unplugging all unneccessary items. I had plugged it in yesterday because I was gaming. It was plugged in at the time of the lockup. I unplugged it and rebooted the system and there were no lockups overnight. I highly doubt this is the issue though. Just going to keep plugging.

I have some motherboard software running in the background monitoring the voltages, but I don't know if it would show that on a lockup if that was indeed the issue. Depending on what Mr. Taxman says, I might be doing a new build here really soon if this doesn't go away.

I can't do a linux build right now, that's not a viable test for me at the moment, sorry.
 
You don't have to install Linux. You can just run it from a CD now. Go download Ubuntu,burn the ISO to a CD and do what Kraze suggested.

EDIT:

Just thought of this right now, is Automatic Updates turned on? Just a wild thought but the recent Windows updates may have caused the lockups. I'm noticing lockups on my PC and Laptop after their update. Try uninstalling the recent Windows update and see if the lockups still happen.
 
yea, its a boot cd designed to run entirely off of a disk. They come in a iSO, and all the software you need including media players and web browsers... even aim/yahoo/msn/icq if your feeling chatty.

www.phlak.org/

I just thought, if you ran outside of Windows, you could eliminate anything software.


About me unplugging fans.. they were case side fans, and I had the side off.. sorry I should have been more specific.
 
Well thismorning I found a 250watt powersupply lying around, I tried a simple boot, with one hardrive, motherboard power, and p4 power. I got to windows, and It did the same freeze openining internet explorer.. mouse off and everything...

I guess its the mobo. Time for a new build... sigh.
 
what kind of mobo is it? look at the capacitors (can-shaped things) around the CPU socket area. are any of them bulged out or covered in crusty yellow/black stuff?
 
my caps appear to be fine.

I have a asus p4g8x deluxe and he has Asus K8V deluxe mobo.
 
did that haha.

Right now im on the pc.. and things are looking positive! Hopefully..

It hasnt crashed yet and its been about 45 minutes.

What I did, is I dissabled in bios, the onboard game port as well as midi ports after he mentioned unplugging the gamepad and it not crashing.. I tried that too but it still crashed.

If Im lucky, it might have been something as simple as the onboard gameport and the soundcards game port colliding.

With my luck, right after posting this, I will get a lockup.
 
I need more information if I am to help you guys....I need to know EVERYTHING you have for hardware, if any overclocking has been done, include all usb devices etc.

aside from that this is exactly how I would go about it....

1) Isolate all non-essentials (unplug extra drives, cdroms, dvdroms, fans except CPU and video

2) Unplug all non essential header connectors, relocate RAM to opposite slots, change connector to video card (if you have more than one)

3) Smell all components (you will know if they are smoked by the smell), Re-seat all connectors to mainboard.

4) boot up BIOS and use failsafe settings, turn off all non essential items (parallel port, serial, RAID (if not using), onboard sound.

5) boot windows, scandisk, disk cleanup, defrag, flash BIOS with any available update from OEM website, get all new drivers for all components.

6) go in device manager and right click on computer icon and view by rescources...note all IRQ's used.

7) play around and see if it locks up, load the most visually demanding game you have and put a load on the system.

if it doesn't lock up start plugging in 1 component at a time and retest.

NOTE: ATI cards can be a bitch for RAM overheat issues (NOT CPU, Sapphire cards especially) also with these ensure absolutely NOTHING shares power with videocard on same harness.

IF IT IS STILL LOCKING UP ON BARE MINIMUMS YOU WILL NEED TO BEGIN COMPONENT SWAPS AND RETESTS UNTIL PROBLEM IS ISOLATED FURTHER.
 
Well, since the lockup on Monday with the joystick plugged in, I haven't had another one. I find it hard to believe that's the problem, but I really hope it is. That's easy to deal with for sure. If I get another one I'll try the linux boot CD.
 
I havent updated any hardware and I get the lockups..

The one thing I havent tried is using a solitary rail for my graphics card, since I only have 2. but I did put in another graphics card owned by ati without the extra molex needed (a 9600) and it still locked up.

I will try that.

Everything else I have tried.

I appreciate your help, and in a few today Ill go through your checklist and do it all again. Im still leaning towards hardware failure, since I havent updated the drivers or anything and the problem is getting worse.

The sad thing is It wont crash during a game.. Its only crashed once during a game.. I can keep a game on for hours without a crash, but as soon as I get out of a game, and start doing something that doesnt require effort, I hear the windows usp disconnect then reconnect sounds. It will do it a few times then lock up.
 
Gruntled Employee said:
I need more information if I am to help you guys....I need to know EVERYTHING you have for hardware, if any overclocking has been done, include all usb devices etc.

aside from that this is exactly how I would go about it....

1) Isolate all non-essentials (unplug extra drives, cdroms, dvdroms, fans except CPU and video
Tried, also used another graphics card.

2) Unplug all non essential header connectors, relocate RAM to opposite slots, change connector to video card (if you have more than one)
Ran in single slot as well as dual slot mode, all with different combinations of ram

3) Smell all components (you will know if they are smoked by the smell), Re-seat all connectors to mainboard.
No bad smells, I have alot of fans, and cooling is not a problem. CPU runs around 80-90 depending on load, graphics card at 36 degrees thanks to a zalman

4) boot up BIOS and use failsafe settings, turn off all non essential items (parallel port, serial, RAID (if not using), onboard sound.
Tried this, dissabled every extra onboard, currently using ata hardrives, dissabled one, and ran in a single hardrive mode

5) boot windows, scandisk, disk cleanup, defrag, flash BIOS with any available update from OEM website, get all new drivers for all components.
Current drivers for graphics card, windows is 100%, scandisk, checkdisk, all good. The only drivers I might have not updated are the ones I dont understand, mostly the intel drivers

6) go in device manager and right click on computer icon and view by rescources...note all IRQ's used.
A picture is woth a thousand words..

irq1.jpg

http://www.teamxw.com/temp/irq1.jpg
irq2.jpg

http://www.teamxw.com/temp/irq12.jpg

Hope this is the problem, would save me a ton of money. I know nothing about irq's

7) play around and see if it locks up, load the most visually demanding game you have and put a load on the system.
it doesn lock up while gaming, its insane!

I also put in another processor, a 2.8.. and it still locked up... another thing, I would like to use the 2.8, but my bios recognizes it as a 1.4?

if it doesn't lock up start plugging in 1 component at a time and retest.

NOTE: ATI cards can be a bitch for RAM overheat issues (NOT CPU, Sapphire cards especially) also with these ensure absolutely NOTHING shares power with videocard on same harness.
I have an aftermarket zalman on this card, its a x850 pro, with the 16 pipes unlocked, its agp, and is not overclocked.

IF IT IS STILL LOCKING UP ON BARE MINIMUMS YOU WILL NEED TO BEGIN COMPONENT SWAPS AND RETESTS UNTIL PROBLEM IS ISOLATED FURTHER.

Ive replaced every part of the computer but the motherboard, is there anything that can test a motherboard software wise? I know they make a pci chip.. but yea.
Click to expand...


hope this helps!
 
Broke down and went to my local pc parts shop and bought a new mobo.

The only one they had was a mini atx..sigh, 1 gig of ram instead of 2.. but it doesnt lock up.. and I kept my original xp install, thanks guys
 
Glad to hear you found it, too bad about the selection, but at least now you know. I would still be looking at a larger power supply, I would be skeptical that 480watt PSU can withstand the continous load with the amount of stuff you have connected on a regular basis. just food for thought.
 
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