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Raid Controller - What options do I have?

J

JayM

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
84
:mad:Ok guys. Just looking for some expertise. Just built my rig after only having the compenents for almost a year...doh! Absolutely no time :mad:

Anyways, I wish I had bought a different mobo but I was on a budget and wanted as many bells and whistles at the lowest cost. Have a Gigabyte GA-P45T-ES3G which didn't have onboard RAID. I just realized and was like oh crap. Even my Asus P4G8X Deluxe had onboard RAID 0 and 1 which I last built years ago.

This will be first RAID array I will shoot to put together if you guys think it makes sense with my mobo. I preferably want to go with RAID 5 which will give me the performance boost and better backup solution.

After researching, most effective cards it looks like I really need a PCI x8 slot which this mobo doesn't have. I have an open PCIEX x1 and standard PCI. None of which I think will be useful for performance boost. I know there are cards that fit these slots but from what I read they didn't offer much performance gain. Just the added gain of additional SATA connections which i dont need. I have 6 SATA connection right on the board which I am only using 3 now.

Is it worthwhile even bothering with a RAID setup on this board? Id like it but lets call it what it is I guess. I am stretching for someone to hopefully advise a card that would be worthwhile and beneficial on performance boost if there is something out there.

Thanks in advance.

Jay
 
Need a little more info. What OS are you planning on running? Are you going to dual boot? What drives are you planning on using for the OS and Storage?
 
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I will have 3 x 1TB SATA drives. I got 2 now and will pick up a third for RAID 5 if it makes sense. Yeah...no dual boot, Did in the past. I'll just have the single OS.

Running Windows 7 Pro 64bit.

Thanks for the quick response kac77.
 
OK since you are not dual booting and you're running Windows 7 you basically are stuck with 0 and 1. If you want more than that you'll need a card or a 3rd party software solution.

For a card based solution you can spin the roulette wheel on Ebay or buy at full retail. I would look at LSI. They perform well and usually are more compatible with 3rd party hardware. This will work as long as you have enough space for the card's BIOS if you don't then you are pretty much strapped when it comes to Windows.

In terms of software solutions you could try Flex Raid perhaps, or SnapRAID. Neither require cards to run.
 
RAID is not backup.

You have less than 2TB of data? Spend about $120 and buy a 2TB external drive for your backup. Safer, simpler, far more foolproof that ****ing around with RAID.
 
How stable is that system going to be when one of the drives gets dropped from the array and you don't know why? Did the drive really go bad? Do your run the system with the array in a degraded state? How safe is that? Do you have a spare drive to swap in to rebuild the array? What if another drive dies or is dropped while in a degraded state and/or rebuilding?

Are you going to end up like this guy?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1717271
 
JJ Johnson said:
How stable is that system going to be when one of the drives gets dropped from the array and you don't know why? Did the drive really go bad? Do your run the system with the array in a degraded state? How safe is that? Do you have a spare drive to swap in to rebuild the array? What if another drive dies or is dropped while in a degraded state and/or rebuilding?

Are you going to end up like this guy?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1717271
Click to expand...

Geez dude...so Im guessing you don't like a raid setup? The way you explain it if it was that bad NOONE would do it. It's out there for a reason and thought I would setup an array.

To answer your question, I have an external large capacity WD drive now so I can use it for recovery if needed. I plan on buying more SATA drives as well. If something goes amiss then so be it. I backup my critical files. If I have to reinstall the OS because of a crash Ill do it. Fortunately that has never happenned to me because of a hardware issue. More a software corruption matter where I had to do.
 
Guys it looks like this is his main rig. Not an external file server. Yes, he should have a backup solution. Everyone should. Does everyone? No. We've cleaned up more than a few disasters so let's not pretend it's the first rodeo.

If he needs a backup plan ASAP crashplan, or carbonite could easily be purchased and used. Neither is going to deal with uptime, which is the point of RAID in the first place. If the OP wants to learn RAID let him.


I know software RAID won't be worth it. I am a firm beleiver in hardware for improvement.

Here are the cards I am looking at:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816102117

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816104006

The Koutech card sounds like a good value. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Here's the deal with hardware RAID cards. If there's anything to remember it's this. DON'T BE CHEAP. If you want to do RAID pick an enterprise hardware RAID controller that is from a reputable company. If you don't you run the risk of having a problem and not being able to recover (which is why backups are good to have). My earlier suggestion is what I would go with. Either it's LSI, Adaptec, Areca, or 3Ware.

Also go with enterprise drives unless you like lurking within forums trying to figure out which consumer drives aren't foobar'd. Also do RAID 6 not RAID 5. You do these three things and you won't have a problem at all.
 
kac77 said:
Guys it looks like this is his main rig. Not an external file server. Yes, he should have a backup solution. Everyone should. Does everyone? No. We've cleaned up more than a few disasters so let's not pretend it's the first rodeo.

If he needs a backup plan ASAP crashplan, or carbonite could easily be purchased and used. Neither is going to deal with uptime, which is the point of RAID in the first place. If the OP wants to learn RAID let him.




Here's the deal with hardware RAID cards. If there's anything to remember it's this. DON'T BE CHEAP. If you want to do RAID pick an enterprise hardware RAID controller that is from a reputable company. If you don't you run the risk of having a problem and not being able to recover (which is why backups are good to have). My earlier suggestion is what I would go with. Either it's LSI, Adaptec, Areca, or 3Ware.

Also go with enterprise drives unless you like lurking within forums trying to figure out which consumer drives aren't foobar'd. Also do RAID 6 not RAID 5. You do these three things and you won't have a problem at all.
Click to expand...

Correct...it is my main rig. Of course backup is the way to be a pc enthusiast. I know the risks in any pc build. Raid or not.

I checked every manufacturer. Only ones listed you recommend are these and they only do RAID 0 and 1 and priceir than others. Im ok spending the money but silly for just these array options.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151031

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116041

I really appreciate the insight and direction kac77. Decisions....decisions.
 
JJ Johnson said:
Apparently you're anxious to clean up some more.
Click to expand...

Nope. In the many years of giving suggestions I've learned that in the end the OP is going to do what he or she wants so it's best to give as much support as possible, and there's no one way to do anything. At this point we are still trying to figure out what the OP's plan is.
 
JayM said:
I checked every manufacturer. Only ones listed you recommend are these and they only do RAID 0 and 1 and priceir than others. Im ok spending the money but silly for just these array options.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151031

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116041

I really appreciate the insight and direction kac77. Decisions....decisions.
Click to expand...

You are looking at about $350 for an LSI (which will give you Raid 6). Yes it's pricey. Basically if you want enterprise features (like RAID) there's no free lunch and the one's promising you that (like onboard RAID) usually have huge downsides. Here are your options and they all cost the same (no free lunch).

  • 1. Build a File Server and go the software raid route (Linux, Solaris, etc)
  • 2. Buy a GOOD Raid Controller

Both of these options will run you about 300 give or take. Here are the benefits to each:

Option 1:
+More forgiving on HDD's. You may go with consumer drives with this approach.
+ Depending on the OS you could have more features than a Raid controller.
- You are going to build another box to do it.
- ECC RAM is usually a requirement or strong recommendation
- Less expand-ability. It's whatever your MB has. If you want more ports you need to buy them.

Option 2:
+ You don't have to build another box.
+ Enterprise RAID controllers can control hundreds of disks. Expand-ability is quite good in this regard.
- Enterprise RAID controllers like Enterprise HDD's.
- This approach does lack some of the features like dedup which many software solutions have.
 
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kac77 said:
I also have a question, do you game?
Click to expand...

Thanks kac77. I won't pretend to know it all becasue I don't. Option 2 it has to be. Im not going to build another box.

LSI does not make a card available for either of the available slots on my mobo. I need a PCIE x1 or standard PCI. So that rules LSI out unless I missed but I checked their website.

I won't be gaming on it.
 
You say you bought that mainboard a year ago but it is way older than that.
 
JayM said:
LSI does not make a card available for either of the available slots on my mobo. I need a PCIE x1 or standard PCI. So that rules LSI out unless I missed but I checked their website.

I won't be gaming on it.
Click to expand...

I ran into this problem ressurecting an old nForce board for file serving duty. What I did was buy a cheap 1X PCI Express video card which left my PCI E 16x slot free. Check your manual and see if you can have both slots populated.

That being said you are likely to run into that problem I talked about earlier. I doubt Gigabyte is going to leave enough room for the card's BIOS to load. I think if you really want to do RAID then you need to do it elsewhere not on that board.
Or you still have FLexRAID and SnapRAID available to you. Unfortunately your setup is limiting and there's not much we can do about it.
 
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Danny Bui said:
Had to ask again for the very reason that Aesma noted: That part was very old even a year ago.
Click to expand...

Yeah....I bought a year ago and has been in the box brand new until now. Life has got in the way. Love this hobby just haven't had the time. Tech changes so fast.

Oh...I didn't want to get too long winded and you say why the hell did I even get this board? Well...it was because I wanted to go with the LGA775 chipset which was the last chipset my Koolance CPU block would still fit to. This way I was able to keep all the previous watercooling hardware I had.
 
JayM said:
Yeah....I bought a year ago and has been in the box brand new until now. Life has got in the way. Love this hobby just haven't had the time. Tech changes so fast.

Oh...I didn't want to get too long winded and you say why the hell did I even get this board? Well...it was because I wanted to go with the LGA775 chipset which was the last chipset my Koolance CPU block would still fit to. This way I was able to keep all the previous watercooling hardware I had.
Click to expand...
Even if you did have the time a year ago to build the PC, anyone in their right mind would have told "Don't buy that hardware" considering that socket 775 was effectively dead and a bad buy 2-3 years before you bought that motherboard.

In any case, kac77 has pretty much laid out your only options to get RAID with your setup.
 
kac77 said:
I ran into this problem ressurecting an old nForce board for file serving duty. What I did was buy a cheap 1X PCI Express video card which left my PCI E 16x slot free. Check your manual and see if you can have both slots populated.

That being said you are likely to run into that problem I talked about earlier. I doubt Gigabyte is going to leave enough room for the card's BIOS to load. I think if you really want to do RAID then you need to do it elsewhere not on that board.
Or you still have FLexRAID and SnapRAID available to you. Unfortunately your setup is limiting and there's not much we can do about it.
Click to expand...

Thanks kac77. You have been a great help. The real way to go here to go true RAID will be with either of these cards via PCIE x1 and running either RAID 0 or 1.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151031

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116041

I will need to think about this and if it's worthwhile. Only reason I will go to RAID is for the performance on RAID 0 but you have more vulnerability to system failure if one of the drives go.
 
Danny Bui said:
Even if you did have the time a year ago to build the PC, anyone in their right mind would have told "Don't buy that hardware" considering that socket 775 was effectively dead and a bad buy 2-3 years before you bought that motherboard.

In any case, kac77 has pretty much laid out your only options to get RAID with your setup.
Click to expand...

Now you really made me feel like s*it !
 
JayM said:
I will need to think about this and if it's worthwhile. Only reason I will go to RAID is for the performance on RAID 0 but you have more vulnerability to system failure if one of the drives go.
Click to expand...

Or if the controller goes. I would go with Areca due to how popular their cards are here on the forums.

However, what CPU do you have?
 
Danny Bui said:
Or if the controller goes. I would go with Areca due to how popular their cards are here on the forums.

However, what CPU do you have?
Click to expand...

2 Quad Core 3 Ghz - Fastest Processor the board can take.
 
JayM said:
2 Quad Core 3 Ghz - Fastest Processor the board can take.
Click to expand...

So you actually have the Q9650? And what exactly are you using this PC for?

EDIT: Though if you're just planning on RAID 0 for sheer performance, forget the controller and RAID 0 altogether and just buy a single SSD like the Crucial M4 256GB or Samsung 830 256GB. A SSD will feel significantly faster than a RAID 0 of regular hard drives.

EDIT 2:
JayM said:
Now you really made me feel like s*it !
Click to expand...
Well you've now learned a valuable lesson or two:
1) Ask for advice before you buy
2) Do research before you buy

A quick google search a year ago would have saved you the trouble of buying old and outdated parts.
 
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And considering the simple fact that you don't _need_ RAID for your situation, I'd suggest forgetting it and enjoying the time that you won't spend fiddling with it, and the money that you won't spend implementing it.

I have absolutely nothing against RAID, only the unbridled enthusiasm that so many hobbyists have for it, without understanding its real purpose. There are many situations where using some form of RAID makes a lot of sense, and many mission critical situations where it's a necessity. A home environment with one PC and less than 2TB of data isn't one of them, IMO. You can create an extremely simple to manage, very data-safe system just by doing regular backups and keeping a cold (or warm) spare drive on hand.

(Note that the amount of data you have and the general availability and cost of drives of a given size play a role here. If you had 20TB of data, then yes, some kind of large RAID array would probably be called for. If ten years ago you had 2TB of data, then a big RAID array would have made sense. But when 2TB drives cost about $100 and you have less than 2TB of data, RAID buys you very little.)
 
Danny Bui said:
So you actually have the Q9650? And what exactly are you using this PC for?
Click to expand...

Yup. Exactly that CPU.

Home PC for me and the wife. HD Blu Ray home vid burns, little bit of HD home media viewing, music integration, day-to-day tasks (surfing, documents, usual). Heaviest use on the system will be downloads, mutlitasking, and burns.
 
Danny Bui said:
So you actually have the Q9650? And what exactly are you using this PC for?

EDIT: Though if you're just planning on RAID 0 for sheer performance, forget the controller and RAID 0 altogether and just buy a single SSD like the Crucial M4 256GB or Samsung 830 256GB. A SSD will feel significantly faster than a RAID 0 of regular hard drives.

EDIT 2:

Well you've now learned a valuable lesson or two:
1) Ask for advice before you buy
2) Do research before you buy

A quick google search a year ago would have saved you the trouble of buying old and outdated parts.
Click to expand...

I hear you. I knew the LGA 775 chipset lacked but again I was trying to keep costs down and also keeping the watercooling blocks I had. This Gigabyte board actually had more for that type chipset than other boards in the market. In the end, usual saying is you get what you pay for. I was trying to improve from my Asus P4G8X Deluxe which was way outdated. I hadn't built a rig in a while.
 
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