Radeon x800 "XL"

zapian_

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For the start, i just blew my 6800GT card 2 weeks ago (OEM-so no warranty :( ). I was about to buy another one at newegg but I read somewhere the upcoming X800 XL will be much better and cheaper.

How is this possible? Only $299 and almost the same (if not better) as 6800gt..?
 

ScHpAnKy

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depends on the games, the 6800GT will trounce on OpenGL and keep up or be only marginally slower in Direct3D games (sometimes faster), also XL is strictly PCI-E where the 6800GT is available in both AGP and PCI-E
 

FaRKle0079

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Depends what you want. Sure a 6800GT will be faster at OGL, but in DX9 the X800XL will blow it away for the price. The only question you might want to ask yourself is, "Is $100 worth the gains the 6800GT has over the X800XL in OGL?"
 

robberbaron

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FaRKle0079 said:
Depends what you want. Sure a 6800GT will be faster at OGL, but in DX9 the X800XL will blow it away for the price. The only question you might want to ask yourself is, "Is $100 worth the gains the 6800GT has over the X800XL in OGL?"

I dont think blow it away would be the correct term. I dont see the x800's beating the 6800's in D3D benches as much as the 6800's beat the x800's in OGL benchmarks.
 

Moloch

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robberbaron said:
I dont think blow it away would be the correct term. I dont see the x800's beating the 6800's in D3D benches as much as the 6800's beat the x800's in OGL benchmarks.
For the price, they do well.
The X800XL is easily faster in DX9 games, and on certain HL2 levels, murders a 6800GT
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/hl2-kanal-4x8x-1600.gif
What OGl do you(thread starter) play regularly?
Once thing of interest with the X800XL, is the possibility of 6X fsaa at 1280x960, if your monitor doesn't support 1600x1200.
Also, I read a thread at nvnews that evolved into ati vs nvidia fsaa, and in F12002( i believe) the 6800GT didn't seem to be antialiasing the whole seen for the X800 something.
I'm noticing that also with my 6600GT in HL2, certain points like building and gates doesn't seem to getting much, if at all, anti aliasing applied to them.
Like the grass in HL2 is jaggy as hell, is it an alpha texture or something?
I haven't seen a comparison of ati and nvidia in HL2 though, so not sure.
I see alot of people who have both saying the IQ of ati to be better than nv, but I haven't seen it for my self.
In screen shots they look pretty similar.
 

^eMpTy^

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blah blah blah...if you're getting pci-e and you don't want to go SLI...and you can find an x800xl for MSRP...get it...otherwise...the GT is a better card...
 

Moloch

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^eMpTy^ said:
blah blah blah...if you're getting pci-e and you don't want to go SLI...and you can find an x800xl for MSRP...get it...otherwise...the GT is a better card...
ahaha, mad cuz nvidia doesn't have a 300$ 16 pipe card?
Shouldn't be too hard to fine one for msrp.
The GT is only a better card if you play doom 3 all day long, and love 4 player death matchs :D
Atleast with the X800XL, most games are D3D, so they're be faster, and Hl2 has counter strike AND HL2 DM.
The Q3A engined games should run stupid good on either card at max details, not sure how many games actually still use OGL that aren't Q3.
I know bioware still does OGL, but who else?
 

chris.c

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if the XL and the GT were the same price, i would say buy the one that is better for the games you play.

but considering the price difference, it is a no-brainer. even if doom3 is the only game you play, i would still just ignore the 10 fps difference that everybody makes such a big deal about, and save yourself $100.
 

Mav451

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Considering the X800XL is still relatively rare, it will still be priced way up the "MSRP" of $299. The $299 is more of a dream, since the lowest you will find it for is closer to $370 and up. In that range, you can already be finding used 6800GTs + NV5's for $340+ or get a new 6800GT for only $30 more than the lowest price of the X800XL's, at this point in time..

Until the price drops more on the X800XL, I would wait a bit longer.
 

Kueller

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GT's sell under MSRP, X800XL's sell over MSRP, in the end they cost about the same when they get to your door. The X800 XL doesn't seem to OC very well, from the limited reviews around. The GT on the other hand seems to OC to ultra speeds without trouble most of the time, and can go well over that.

All that said, the X800 XL does start with a higher core clock and if you can find it for MSRP...or even $50 over MSRP I'd go for it.
 

chris.c

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hmm, please link me to a site that has 6800gt pci-e in stock for under MSRP. my friend is looking for one.
 

needmorecarnitine

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Moloch said:
Shouldn't be too hard to fine one for msrp.

lolz

yea, like in 3 months

Lets see how many you can find in stock and ready for shipping (at MSRP or less). Shouldn't be too hard...
 

GotNoRice

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I'll get excited about the magical "$300 x800 XL" when it stops selling for like $420
 

Moloch

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needmorecarnitine said:
lolz

yea, like in 3 months

Lets see how many you can find in stock and ready for shipping (at MSRP or less). Shouldn't be too hard...
lol a 6800GT costs 426, a X800xl costs 370.
As long as its cheaper than an 6800GT, its a deal.
quite a few people were able to get for 300~ too.
if no one is buying them, then the price will go down, if people keep buying them at this price, they're keep charging that.
http://www.bized.ac.uk/stafsup/options/notes/econ207.htm ;)
 

burningrave101

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Moloch said:
lol a 6800GT costs 426, a X800xl costs 370.
As long as its cheaper than an 6800GT, its a deal.
quite a few people were able to get for 300~ too.
if no one is buying them, then the price will go down, if people keep buying them at this price, they're keep charging that.
http://www.bized.ac.uk/stafsup/options/notes/econ207.htm ;)

Its not a deal for someone that has an AGP motherboard unless their moving to PCI-E at the same time. This guy had an AGP 6800GT and we dont even know what CPU he has so the move to PCI-E plus an X800XL could cost twice as much as buying an AGP 6800GT lol.
 

jhokie

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So Moloch, go ahead and buy the 800XL. Good luck getting one under 400. Maybe in a month or two.
 

CastleBravo

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AGP - The 6800 GT, because the x800 XL isn't available in AGP.

PCI-Express - At equal prices, the 6800 GT is a better card, you get non-trivial overclockability, better OpenGL support, support for more advanced features like SM3, and all the other benches are a toss-up between the two. However, the x800 XL is supposed to be $100 cheaper than the 6800 GT, so if you can find one for that big a savings over the 6800 GT, it is a much better value for the dollar than the 6800 GT is.

But that is a BIG "if" at the moment. Right now they are ridiculously overcharging for those things.
 

Add 'em

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CastleBravo said:
AGP - The 6800 GT, because the x800 XL isn't available in AGP.

PCI-Express - At equal prices, the 6800 GT is a better card, you get non-trivial overclockability, better OpenGL support, support for more advanced features like SM3, and all the other benches are a toss-up between the two. However, the x800 XL is supposed to be $100 cheaper than the 6800 GT, so if you can find one for that big a savings over the 6800 GT, it is a much better value for the dollar than the 6800 GT is.

But that is a BIG "if" at the moment. Right now they are ridiculously overcharging for those things.

What do you mean by "non-trivial overclockability"?
 

Jonsey

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Add 'em said:
What do you mean by "non-trivial overclockability"?

He means you can usually overclock a GT to ultra levels. You arn't going to overclock an XL to XT levels so easily.
 

Add 'em

Limp Gawd
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So is it trivial to get the GT to Ultra? Or is only overclocking the XL a little bit trivial? I was just a little confused by the word choice.
 

Moloch

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Jonsey said:
He means you can usually overclock a GT to ultra levels. You arn't going to overclock an XL to XT levels so easily.
Assuming you can get an XL for anywhere near its its MSRP(like <330), that's a moot point.
If you're buying an X800XL, chances are you don' t have a top of the line system, and play at 1600x1200.
You buy 400 doller cards for high res gaming with AA and AF.
Also the X800XL offers performance greater than the 6800ultra in HL2 and far cry jungle areas.
So even a 6800GT at ultra speeds will be slower:D

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/hl2-kanal-4x8x-1600.gif
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/fc-pier-4x8x-1600.gif
 

needmorecarnitine

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Moloch said:
lol a 6800GT costs 426, a X800xl costs 370.
As long as its cheaper than an 6800GT, its a deal.
quite a few people were able to get for 300~ too.
if no one is buying them, then the price will go down, if people keep buying them at this price, they're keep charging that.
http://www.bized.ac.uk/stafsup/options/notes/econ207.htm ;)


Hey

I'm not gonna argue that $370 is less than $426

If you think we didn't notice that you changed your argument from:

Moloch said:
Shouldn't be too hard to fine one for msrp.

to whatever you are trying to claim now, you are confused. You can quote the bible if you want, WE ALREADY QUOTED YOU
 

CastleBravo

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I'll put it to you this way: my 6800 GT went from 370 to 430 MHz on the core, and from 1000 to 1150 on the RAM. It runs 24/7 at 400/1100 (Ultra clocks). The x800 XL didn't do shit for overclocking in the HardOCP review of the card, and that was a manufacturer's sample that was probably cherry-picked for best results.

Not everybody can get that high. And some people have gotten up to 440+ on their GTs by volt modding and cooling them better than I did. But I used an off-the-shelf card, not a test sample.
 

Moloch

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needmorecarnitine said:
Hey

I'm not gonna argue that $370 is less than $426

If you think we didn't notice that you changed your argument from:



to whatever you are trying to claim now, you are confused. You can quote the bible if you want, WE ALREADY QUOTED YOU
ok :LOL:
whatever.
I was able to find from for MSRP.. compusa it listed as"coming soon".
btw.. bible is great work of fiction :p
 

needmorecarnitine

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And ATI had it listed for $299 also. Lots of people will tell you that neither one is shipping them currently (at least at those prices)
 

omega-x

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will ATI ever release a good middle-end agp card? (279-330 range)

the x800se's suck afaik.

or..better yet.. a simple AGP x800XL..it cant be THAT hard
 

Moloch

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omega-x said:
will ATI ever release a good middle-end agp card? (279-330 range)

the x800se's suck afaik.

or..better yet.. a simple AGP x800XL..it cant be THAT hard
Good things come to those who wait.
 

swatX

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Hate_Bot said:
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=283271

Under $400

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PC-X800XL&c=pw#

Under $400

No that hard to find really.

(These are the only Links I have becasue these are the only ones that ship to Canada)

give it a month or so, they should be around $320, $310 (closer to MSRP basically)


http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-122-195&depa=1

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-145-085&depa=1

thats for the AGP

u havent really specified if u have a AGP mobo or a pci-e mobo!


Moloch said:
Assuming you can get an XL for anywhere near its its MSRP(like <330), that's a moot point.
If you're buying an X800XL, chances are you don' t have a top of the line system, and play at 1600x1200.
You buy 400 doller cards for high res gaming with AA and AF.
Also the X800XL offers performance greater than the 6800ultra in HL2 and far cry jungle areas.
So even a 6800GT at ultra speeds will be slower:D

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/hl2-kanal-4x8x-1600.gif
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x800xl/fc-pier-4x8x-1600.gif

thats BS!! no way a x800xl can beat 6800ultra at hl2.. NO WAY!
 

Moloch

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swatX said:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-122-195&depa=1

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-145-085&depa=1

thats for the AGP

u havent really specified if u have a AGP mobo or a pci-e mobo!




thats BS!! no way a x800xl can beat 6800ultra at hl2.. NO WAY!
Erm.. thats not bullshit dude.
It is an ati game, and the X800XL has the clockspeed to pull it off.
The ati cards run the water shaders better than nvidia...
Er heres a fixed pic.. damn anti hotlinking.

There's apparently a bug in the ati 8-08-rc2-019256e drivers they're using, so no Airboat Battle scores.
But seriously, HL2 loves ati cards.
Here's some scores from firiring squad.
 

jamadaia

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Iv owned 3 different brands of 6800GT and all of them clocked to least 400/1.1 rock stable with a simple overclock via teh Nvidia built in overclocking control panel. In another words easy peasy.
Iv tried 2 X800XL's and foudn that they dont clock much at all, especially the cores. Your only really garunteed approx a 25mhz core clock and similairly on memory (allbeit x2).
Also the 6800GT is DX 9c compliant, whereas the X800 architecture isnt.
So imho, as long as the X800XL is street priced very closely to the 6800GT, id definetly lean towards getting a 6800GT.
However if the price situation changes i.e. the X800XL price explotation stops and/or ATI gets there act together and starts supplying the X800XL is decent numbers. Then id say the X800XL is better value.
 

Moloch

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jamadaia said:
Iv owned 3 different brands of 6800GT and all of them clocked to least 400/1.1 rock stable with a simple overclock via teh Nvidia built in overclocking control panel. In another words easy peasy.
Iv tried 2 X800XL's and foudn that they dont clock much at all, especially the cores. Your only really garunteed approx a 25mhz core clock and similairly on memory (allbeit x2).
Also the 6800GT is DX 9c compliant, whereas the X800 architecture isnt.
So imho, as long as the X800XL is street priced very closely to the 6800GT, id definetly lean towards getting a 6800GT.
However if the price situation changes i.e. the X800XL price explotation stops and/or ATI gets there act together and starts supplying the X800XL is decent numbers. Then id say the X800XL is better value.
They dont need to clock high, they already pwn at stock speeds.
Complicanty doesn't guarteen it will run games that heavily utilize SM3 features, only that it has the capability to run them, but at what speed?
A radeon 9700/9800 doesn't run games today that fast does it, and don't get me started on the NV3X.
 

dIsRuPtIvE

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CastleBravo said:
PCI-Express - At equal prices, the 6800 GT is a better card, you get non-trivial overclockability, better OpenGL support, support for more advanced features like SM3, and all the other benches are a toss-up between the two.

Hmm..

I did a comparison of my Aquamark score against all 6800 GTs running 2200-2400MHz CPUs

I came in at #42 scoring better than 826 of them.

Now if you think that's interesting check this out...

I went ahead and put it up against all 6800 Ultras running 2200-2400MHz

My X800 XL scored better than 163 out of 193. coming in at #30

Mind you this is with crappy ass Geil Blue Value RAM, wait till the OCZ pc3700 Gold gets here.

http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=2030999848

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