Radeon 4350 or 4550

Wich GPU is best for my PC?

  • Total voters
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A

Aaron11

[H]ard|Gawd
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I want to perform a cheap gpu upgrade to my current PC. I was wonderingwhich is better for my current config. I don't want to do any upgrades other than the gfx card.
System specs:
250GB Maxtor Hard Drive
300 watt psu
ATI x1300 (current gpu I want to replace)
Pentium D 2.8 Ghz
3.0 GB RAM

I was thinking of getting this 4350. I also saw this 4550 I'm interested in. My main question is, which one is best for my current PC? Will the cpu limit the 4550 so I won't get the card's full potential? I guess I should also mention that the slot is PCI-e 1.1 not 2.0. Does anyone think that I should really pay the $15 premium for the 4550? Or will the cpu limit it? Also, any opinions on brands? Any help would be greatly appreciated. ;)
 
What's your current GPU. What resolution display do you have. What tasks do you have for your video card and what is your power supply wattage capacity and model? What is your exact upgrade budget in dollars?
 
vjcsmoke said:
What's your current GPU. What resolution display do you have. What tasks do you have for your video card and what is your power supply wattage capacity and model? What is your exact upgrade budget in dollars?
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I currently have ATI X1300 256mb. The PSU is 300 watts (don't know the model, this is a HP Media Center PC, but I performed some upgrades on it before.) My budget's probably no more than $50.
 
I would reconmend getting a 4650 over either of them. the 4350 or the 4550 are nothing more than cards that can handle video play back, and thats about it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161303
HIS 4650 for 49.99 with 10 dollar rebat

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150393
xfx, double lifetime, for 49.99.

IF you don't mind stretching your budget to around 50ish, I would get the 4650, they can hold themselves pretty well in games for 1200x1024 too, which the other 2 could not.

Even if you are CPU limited, since it would be a PCI-E card, you can bring it with you also. Only question is, do you need a low profile card or not?
 
I voted for the 4550, but I should have looked at the "other" option first.

Anyway, for $50, you could pick up a used 96SP 9600GSO or even a 9800GT if you're lucky. Either one would be much better than a 4550, and that's what I recommend for your budget.
 
You guys think the PSU could handle it? I was considering the 4650 and 9500gt earlier but figured the psu couldn't handle it. Besides, I saw some decent benchmarks for the 4350 and 4550.
 
If you could take a picture of the label on your PSU and post it, I could probably tell you if it's good enough. Alternatively, copy down the brand, full model number, and the power distribution chart, and post them here.
 
Zero82z said:
If you could take a picture of the label on your PSU and post it, I could probably tell you if it's good enough. Alternatively, copy down the brand, full model number, and the power distribution chart, and post them here.
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I really don't think the power supply is good enough. It is probably pretty much used up with the 2 DVD drives connected to it and the x1300, processor and hard drive. I would take a picture, but the PC is in a computer desk and only like to pull it out when I'm doing some upgrades to it.
 
What HP model? HP typically has the PSU listed on their website (partsurfer), and also, their official servicing guide for your computer will have a recommended GPU power draw limit.
 
I picked other:

+1 for the HD4650 for ~$50. It will handle everything, even light/medium gaming.
 
jeremyshaw said:
You have the x300se, not a x1300

http://www.diamondmm.com/X300SE256HM-CN.php
claims 45W, so a 4650, at 48W, might be pushing it, but still should be safe.

The 4350 (22W) and 4550 (25-28, depending on the board design) are both safer bets.

EDIT: HP didn't have much on this older computer (most of the post 2007 comps have HUGE manuals, but still, better then nothing).

Mobo info:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...ry&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=1118243
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Like I said earlier, I've done some upgrades on it before. I added a X1300 and took out the x300se (I gave it to my cousin, he just wanted it even though he has a 8600gt).
 
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The x1300, iirc, is about 30W...

It might be possible, as HP uses Delta PSU, which are decent, but we really need to know the 12V rail in particular, a bit of info from the side of the PSU.

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00455297.pdf

official Guide from HP to get you started.

btw, I voted 4350, because XFX has a line on those, and XFX = best ATi vendor, by far.

They do also have a 4650 line.

But the 4350 is enough for me.
 
Double, at least. The 4350 from XFX, is still my recommendation, despite it's price premium.

XFX = best ATi vendor. Best warranty. Best Support.

The 4550 never really caught on, unfortunately. However, it's at least near 9500gt performance.
 
Is this 4550 on ebay any good? I've never heard of the brand, but it's a good price. I'm not in a rush to buy it because there's other one's posted like thaton ebay.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I was afraid of the Force3D brand. <--they are not bad, but they don't seem to have any good reviews for their support, yet. A new,(2008) Hong Kong based company.

Go with the Sapphire, as they are ATi's favorite (despite how much better XFX is...)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819

Higher price, yes, but better brand / quality. Less likely to fail.

I'd choose XFX, but they don't carry the 4550.
 
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Shadowssong said:
I wouldn't bother with the 4350 or the 4550, atleast get a cheap 4670. 4350/4550 are not made for gaming.

This one doesn't look too bad (little more than $50)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125277
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But we're in danger of hitting the power wall here. At 95w TDP, that dual-core P4 is already putting a strain on that powersupply.

I'm not even sure I would call the 4670 "safe," as that adds 50w to the picture and puts us at the edge of recommended power consumption.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/powercolor-pcshd4670-512mb_5.html#sect0

Let's say that supply can push 200w out of 300 on the 12v rail (not unheard of in 2005). The CPU + 4670 uses 150w of that, the motherboard + ram uses another 25w, and each optical and HDD uses 15w (but these will use half 12v and half 5v). Even with the bare minimum 2 drives, that system is using over 200w, and only a small amount is coming from 5v sources.

What we really need here is the spec on that powersupply. The card is an easy pick once we know that.
 
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Ram, IIRC, uses the 5V rail.

But you are right, it is a lot.

HP also has a bad habit of loading their PSU to near the 'limit'. (especially so in their slimline units).
 
I FOUND THE POWERSUPPLY SPECS!

It's a Hipro 300W POWER SUPPLY 5188-0129 (ATX-300-12Z)

http://itwinkle.stores.yahoo.net/hp30posubh.html

These are the outputs:
+3.3V 18A, +5V 25A, +12V 19A, -12V 0.8A, +5VSB 2.0A

The 12v line is a little more capable than I thought it might be, 228w is more than enough to handle that system plus a 4670 (so long as Aaron11 hasn't added more drives to the system).

So I fully support the 4670 as an upgrade! Also, thanks to your decision to buy a dual-core system, you could actually play recent games with decent framerates (not as good as an Athlon 64 or Core2, but decent).
 
It's not the greatest PSU, but it's decent enough to handle something like a 9600GSO or 9800GT with that system. It's manufactured by Bestec, but it's a more recent model that doesn't have the +5VSB issues that the ATX-250-12E had.
 
defaultluser said:
But we're in danger of hitting the power wall here. At 95w TDP, that dual-core P4 is already putting a strain on that powersupply.

I'm not even sure I would call the 4670 "safe," as that adds 50w to the picture and puts us at the edge of recommended power consumption.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/powercolor-pcshd4670-512mb_5.html#sect0

Let's say that supply can push 200w out of 300 on the 12v rail (not unheard of in 2005). The CPU + 4670 uses 150w of that, the motherboard + ram uses another 25w, and each optical and HDD uses 15w (but these will use half 12v and half 5v). Even with the bare minimum 2 drives, that system is using over 200w, and only a small amount is coming from 5v sources.

What we really need here is the spec on that powersupply. The card is an easy pick once we know that.
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I may take a picture of the back of the power supply tomorrow because I'm going to take it out of the desk and open it up to see where the fans are. I noticed that the 4550 is fanless and I heard it gets really hot. I want to see if there's a fan hitting the gfx card (which I think there is) and if not, I may just have to buy one for really cheap (I really want to avoid this because it adds to the cost.). By the way default user. I have swapped the factory DVD drive with another one, so it still has two drive like it came with, except both are burners. I'll still make sure I get a picture of the PSU so we can make sure the one you found is the right one.
Update: I found a 4650 with 1GB of memory for $55. What do you think? It'd be better to get a 4650 so when I build my new PC (probably over the summer) I can take the card out of this PC and put it into the new PC and buy another one so I have them in crossfire.
 
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Aaron11 said:
I may take a picture of the back of the power supply tomorrow because I'm going to take it out of the desk and open it up to see where the fans are. I noticed that the 4550 is fanless and I heard it gets really hot. I want to see if there's a fan hitting the gfx card (which I think there is) and if not, I may just have to buy one for really cheap (I really want to avoid this because it adds to the cost.). By the way default user. I have swapped the factory DVD drive with another one, so it still has two drive like it came with, except both are burners. I'll still make sure I get a picture of the PSU so we can make sure the one you found is the right one.
Update: I found a 4650 with 1GB of memory for $55. What do you think? It'd be better to get a 4650 so when I build my new PC (probably over the summer) I can take the card out of this PC and put it into the new PC and buy another one so I have them in crossfire.
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No, the 4650 with GDDR2 has terrible performance. The difference between GDDR2 and GDDR3 is night and day.

And did you not notice my second post I made? You do not need to take a picture because I found your power supply specs, and they can support a full 4670!

A couple of suggested purchases:

This has the fastest-clocked memory of all cards at the $69 price point:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125244

This has the cheapest price (if you like waiting for rebates), and respectably fast memory too!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127440

This one is completely silent, but costs a bit more:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131171
 
Also, PCIe is 1.1 is compatible with PCIe 2.0 cards. The difference is bandwidth, but unless if you are using top-of-the line ATi, or nVidia units, the bus is nowhere near full. Look for the review on PCIe scaling with the 5870 for some proof.

Also, listen to what defaultuser has to say, he knows his stuff.
 
Thanks for showing me that MSI card. I think I might get that. I had heard about the 4650s being crap in crossfire, just wasn't sure about it. So you guys sure the PSU will be able to handle it, even with two DVD drives connected to the PSU? Btw, if you guys want to see how GTA IV performs on an ATI X1300 256MB, Look here. It's funny avg frames about 10 fps w/o fraps, LOL.
 
Aaron11 said:
Thanks for showing me that MSI card. I think I might get that. I had heard about the 4650s being crap in crossfire, just wasn't sure about it. So you guys sure the PSU will be able to handle it, even with two DVD drives connected to the PSU? Btw, if you guys want to see how GTA IV performs on an ATI X1300 256MB, Look here. It's funny avg frames about 10 fps w/o fraps, LOL.
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Sure. That extra drive only kicks my power estimate 5-10w, and all or half of that will come off 5v. here's the breakdown:

max power available 12v 228w

Your CPU TDP is 95w. True consumption will probably be lower.
Video card TDP is 70w. True consumption will probably be lower.

These two will use nothing but 12v power. That's 165w.

The motherboard+ram will probably use 20-25w, but jeremyshaw is right that various glue components will use 5v, the chipset will almost certainly use 12v. I'm not sure about the ram, since it is normally powered by the northbridge.

Your chipset is the Intel 945P (82945P) which has a TDP of 15.2w, and was designed for lower-power desktop systems like yours. This TDP includes the operational power of the memory, which is driven by the chipset. But that TDP is for a system running with 1066 MHz bus (yours runs at 800), and 667 MHz DDR2 ram (yours is 400), so your real consumption will be lower.

Let's put the chipset TDP estimate at 13w from the 12v line.

TOTAL 12v draw (so far): 178w

Now, we have one hard drive and two optical drives. The hard drive is a run-of-the-mill 7200 RPM unit, so guessing from this the biggest offender will be startup current. Average current draw for your hard drive type looks to be about 1 amp (12w) from the 12v line.

TOTAL 12v draw (so far): 190w

Now, on to the optical drives: there's a bit of good news there, because modern DVD optical drives draw nowhere near what older optical drives once demanded. The typical max draw these days for desktop drives is 5w for spinup, and that comes entirely from the 5v line. Your drives might be older, but even if they top 10w usage, that should be split right down the middle with 12v and 5v.

TOTAL 12v draw (so far): 190w if you have newer optical drives, 200w if you have older drives.

So your total 12v draw worst-case shouldn't top 200w, and should actually be a bit beneath that (e.g. Xbit reviewed their 4670 and found it drew only 47w at load, despite the 70w TDP...but you might not be so lucky, they make those TDP ratings for a reason).
 
Warning: most optical drives draw about 25W, but only at inrush.

TDP is just for how much heat the cooler needs to displace, not actual power consumption. As stored charges, and inefficent conversion may make the power draw a little firther off from the listed TDP, the law of conservation of energy keeps it pretty close.
 
jeremyshaw said:
Warning: most optical drives draw about 25W, but only at inrush.

TDP is just for how much heat the cooler needs to displace, not actual power consumption. As stored charges, and inefficent conversion may make the power draw a little firther off from the listed TDP, the law of conservation of energy keeps it pretty close.
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So in short you think it will be sufficient, but barely? Could you sum this up?
Guru3d states that their test system under load with a 4670 only draws 207 watts! That's great!
 
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jeremyshaw said:
Warning: most optical drives draw about 25W, but only at inrush.
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I don't buy that for a second. Did you not read my link here?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46455

after a few spin-up with Samsung drive i measure a maximum of 1.06A on 12V line
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The numbers are closer to 15w, and only 12 of that comes from the 12v line.

So, 12w on the 12v line, peak. So, worst case, 214w on the 12v line at startup, and not likely to ever be that bad, because the processor and video card will likely draw well below TDP.

He's within spec for this, I think. Depends if we can trust the max 12v load spec for the powersupply.
 
I think the whitepaper from Intel contains values from a laptop drive, after a few spin-up with Samsung drive i measure a maximum of 1.06A on 12V line, but i considered the measurement invalid because the multimeter is not able to measure a peak value, a few second of constant drain is required for proper measurement.
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It's 25W, normally, and very typically. BluRay does a bit more.
The tester on the thread you linked self-admited screwed up, then also admitted he had no way to test actual inrush.

Most PSUs will allow this extra bit, though, so it's moot. (peak power)

I intended that as a heads up, as I build mITX systems, and with just 80-120W PSUs, and I always need to watch power draw. It wasn't meant to say you were wrong, just... they do draw that much power.

http://www.consumer.philips.com/c/pc-hard-drive/dvd-24x-rewriter-spd2525bm_00/prd/us/
even states 37W.

The PSU will work. (baring capacitor aging)
 
defaultluser said:
I don't buy that for a second. Did you not read my link here?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46455



The numbers are closer to 15w, and only 12 of that comes from the 12v line.

So, 12w on the 12v line, peak. So, worst case, 214w on the 12v line at startup, and not likely to ever be that bad, because the processor and video card will likely draw well below TDP.

He's within spec for this, I think. Depends if we can trust the max 12v load spec for the powersupply.
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I would say it makes sense. I just don't see how a DVD drive could consume 25 watts of power, even while in use.
 
Motor + laser + control hardware + voltage adjustment (for controlling motor speed).
 
jeremyshaw said:
Motor + laser + control hardware + voltage adjustment (for controlling motor speed).
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Do you think the PSU could still handle the 4670? I mean if the psu blows, I could buy another one, but I don't really want to.
 
It can, and it will. defaultuser knows what he is saying.

And even at max, worst case top inrush, the load is still under what the PSU can handle.
 
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