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R600 = WET DREAM

MrGuvernment said:
I knew ATI;s new memory controller system would come in handy eventually :D
Click to expand...
the only reason it has free 4x AA is it probably has the same on-die memory as the Xbox 360.
 
By "Free 4x AA" Does that mean it will always be on 4x AA regardless of what you chose, it's permanent?
 
Puterguru said:
By "Free 4x AA" Does that mean it will always be on 4x AA regardless of what you chose, it's permanent?
Click to expand...

I think you can always choose other AA modes, or no AA, but 4xAA will be a "special one". "Special one" means no performance hit/as fast as no AA.
 
Im really liking the way ATi is going with the R600. Now if it will only be out in time for Xmas.
 
Man, that is going to be one expensive card. I would imagine they are going to have to add a couple of layers to the PCB to accommodate the extra traces for the memory.
 
Apple740 said:
I think you can always choose other AA modes, or no AA, but 4xAA will be a "special one". "Special one" means no performance hit/as fast as no AA.
Click to expand...

I think that what they are saying is that this GPU will be so fast that enabling 4x AA will be free because we will be at the limit of the CPU being able to process what the GPU is able to do. It will be free because the r600 will be just that fast...
 
the only problem for the R600 looks like time to market. G80 will probably alreayd have a refresh by the time r600 hits the streets.
 
That's sorta my feeling too. I don't consider myself much of a video card partisan. I'll get whatever is best and available at the time I want to upgrade. I'm ready to upgrade now, and it's tough enough just waiting for the G80.

If the R600 is appreciably faster than the G80 in SLI configuration, I can always ebay them and go ATi. At least I will have had peak gaming performance for those cold winter months. :D
 
that would be bad ass if all this is true. 4x aa free would be a nice advantage.
 
There is no such things as a free lunch. There is no such thing as "free AA".
 
Vapor03 said:
that would be bad ass if all this is true. 4x aa free would be a nice advantage.
Click to expand...

This talk of "free AA" is irritating. I am not blaming you or anything. There is nothing truely "free" when it comes to GPUs, the performance has to come from somewhere. If this performance can only be used for AA then it seems like a marketing spin, because wouldn't you want the ability to dynamicly shift power where it is needed? Isn't that the whole point of unified shaders? Although, I do use 4xAA consistenly and don't think I haven't in the last couple years so my argument is moot. I would probably never turn off the feature.
 
to be honest, i think the 384bit memory interface of the G80 proposed specs is going to be more than enough to handle things, 512bit will be wasted IMO

has anyone really looked into the GDDR4 thing? i read somewhere that it is based off of the older GDDR2 spec, that it is actually slower than the mature GDDR3 memory
 
drizzt81 said:
There is no such things as a free lunch. There is no such thing as "free AA".
Click to expand...
The really fascinating thing here is the design of that daughter die. Feldstein called it a continuation of the traditional graphics pipeline into memory. Basically, there's a 10MB pool of embedded DRAM, designed by NEC, in the center of the die. Around the outside is a ring of logic designed by ATI. This logic is made up of 192 component processors capable of doing the basic math necessary for multisampled antialiasing. If I have it right, the component processors should be able to process 32 pixels at once by operating on six components per pixel: red, green, blue, alpha, stencil, and depth. This logic can do the resolve pass for multisample antialiasing right there on the eDRAM die, giving the Xbox 360 the ability to do 4X antialiasing on a high-definition (1280x768) image essentially for "free"-i.e., with no appreciable performance penalty. The eDRAM holds the contents of all of the back buffers, does the resolve, and hands off the resulting image into main system memory for scan-out to the display.

Yet another detail of the leaked Xbox 360 diagram is confirmed. If you look at the image, you'll see that the 10MB eDRAM block has a label on it that says, "Alpha - Z/Stencil - MSAA." MSAA stands for "multi-sample anti-aliasing," which is a technique that ATI uses for a AA in their Catalyst drivers. So the diagram shows that the eDRAM chip itself is much more than just passive storage; it actually contains logic that performs anti-aliasing on the image data that's buffered in it, which means "free" anti-aliasing at 720p.

From ARSTECHNICA
 
yeah - I am gonna hold out for this baddie me thinks.. muahahahah. ;) the ATi mem controller is going to help out with larger and faster memory configs.. yeeha!
 
belmicah said:
So the diagram shows that the eDRAM chip itself is much more than just passive storage; it actually contains logic that performs anti-aliasing on the image data that's buffered in it, which means "free" anti-aliasing at 720p.

From ARSTECHNICA
Click to expand...

Which means that there is integrated logic to do AA. Integrated logic requires die space. Larger dice cost more money. Bottom line: It's not free.
 
I think having AA (4x) and AF (16x) on permimently in hardware should become standard features in coming revisions of video cards... with all that processing power they should be.
 
mashie said:
As long as that "Free AA" applies to all resolutions up to 2560x1600 I'm happy.
Click to expand...


I dont think you will see Free AA that high....
 
Ok now i am really angry, first i was thinking buying G80, now R600 is breaking some newses. Why they cannot lauch them togather so we can see which one is better and buy it.
 
annaconda said:
Ok now i am really angry, first i was thinking buying G80, now R600 is breaking some newses. Why they cannot lauch them togather so we can see which one is better and buy it.
Click to expand...
Because ATi is too stinking slow :(
 
Apple740 said:
Well, according to this Chinese site. Keep a bunch of salt next to you.

R600, codename: Pele (the Brazilian footballplayer)
True 512-bit memoryinterface (Nvidia G80 = 384-bit)
1024 MB GDDR4 mem (1.25Ghz), bandwidth 160GB/s (G80 = 86GB/s)
80nm
Free 4xAA

http://www.hardspell.com/news/showcont.asp?news_id=30133
Click to expand...
That's not what it said....it said:
´ËÇ°ÒѾ­ÓÐÏûϢ֤ʵNVIDIAµÄG80½«²ÉÓÃ384bitÏÔ´æλ¿î£¬¶øÄ¿Ç°µÄ¶¥¼¶ÏÔ¿¨¶¼²ÉÓÃ256bitλ¿í¡£ËäÈ»ATi R520/R580ÄÚ²¿²ÉÓÃ512bitµÄ»·ÐÎÏÔ´æ×ÜÏßµ«ÆäÖ»ÓÐ4¸öÏÔ´æͨµÀ£¬ÍⲿÏÔ´æλ¿íÈÔ¾ÉΪ256bit¡£
R600½«´øÀ´Ê·ÎÞÇ°ÀýµÄÕæÕý512bitÏÔ´æλ¿í£¬Èç¹ûÅ䱸2500MHzµÄGDDR4ÏԴ棬ÄÇô´ø¿í½«´ïµ½¾ªÈ˵Ä160G/s£¬ÎÒÃÇÖªµÀ¼´Ê¹ÊÇX-box 360ÄÚǶµÄeDRAM´ø¿íÒ²Ö»ÓÐ256GB/s£¬ËäÈ»ËÙ¶ÈÉÏeDRAM»¹ÊÇ¿ìµÄ¶à£¬²»¹ýX-box 360µÄeDRAMÖ»ÓÐ10MB£¬¶øR600Å䱸µÄÈ´ÊÇ1024MB¡£

R600µÄÑз¢´úºÅΪPele£¬½«²ÉÓÃTSMCµÄ80ÄÉÃ×¹¤ÒÕÖÆÔ죬ÍêÈ«Ö§³ÖDirectX 10£¬Ô¤¼ÆÔÚÃ÷ÄêµÚÒ»¼¾¶È·¢²¼¡£
Click to expand...
 
I considered going ATi next round since Ive been with nVidia the last 3 major cards (6800, 7800, 7900).

Reading about these possible specs just reaffirms that wish/desire. :D

Hopefully they hold out being true!
 
512 bit... Finally a true new generation... If it is true this card will last you long as those radeon 9700 when they first came out...
 
Oh one thing you missed OP. ATI will have 64 pixel/vertex shaders VS G80 will have 128 of them, so i think 512bit vs 384bit, and extra memory bandwith will not make much of a difference in performace.

But only time will tell. :cool:
 
Wow, nice marketing. Spread rumours to keep people from buying a G80. Would be great if these specs are true.
 
nobody_here said:
to be honest, i think the 384bit memory interface of the G80 proposed specs is going to be more than enough to handle things, 512bit will be wasted IMO

has anyone really looked into the GDDR4 thing? i read somewhere that it is based off of the older GDDR2 spec, that it is actually slower than the mature GDDR3 memory
Click to expand...

Not entirely true, while we won't see games that need that sort of buffer, it eventually will, and probably sooner then expected (not with UT2007, but probably a game like Alan Wake, or Crysis will need it), 512 will definetly help

GDDR4 has rudementary aspects of GDDR2, pretty much a skeleton work with no meat, it has higher latencies then GDDR3 - thats always going to happen, but where ever you heard about it being slower is false, and the X1950XTX has proven that fact, GDDR4 at 1000mhz vs GDDR3 with 900mhz, the 4 would win ... the latencies aren't that bad.

Oh one thing you missed OP. ATI will have 64 pixel/vertex shaders VS G80 will have 128 of them, so i think 512bit vs 384bit, and extra memory bandwith will not make much of a difference in performace.

But only time will tell.
Click to expand...

we have almost zero confirmation on what the R600 will have, these specs are rumors (ones im skeptical but hoping are true), anything released earlier are rumors as well, I highly doubt this core will have eDRAM installed, that seems a little useless for a card designed for resolutions higher then 1600x1200, but the only thing we have that is confirmed is the use of GDDR4.

the G80 most likely won't have 128 pixel shaders, the spec's releaved showed 128 shader processors, which is most likely 64 using the 2 by-pass, essentially like how ATI achieves their 48 shaders on the R580.

edit: when talking about the G80 i ment to say unified pipelines, not exactly shaders, i wouldn't expect the architecture to get 100% saturation either, i'm sure theres going to be some slack in there.
 
who cares how fast it is if there is no software to allow it to all be used. You can play all games at super high res and 4xAA with current gen cards, until the software comes out to compliment the hardware changes it is worthless to upgrade to the card. Now mind you the software is coming, but the hardware is so far ahead of software usually that these so called Next Gen cards will be in either the 2nd or 3rd refresh before the software starts to really sturate the market. But dont get me wrong, if the specs turn out to be true this thing will be a beast of a card. I know I sounded pecimistic but I still look forward to hardware changes all the time. Its just for me buying the hardware with little to no software to support the "new" features its pointless, but thats me.
 
jebo_4jc said:
That's not what it said....it said:
Click to expand...

What all i can read is the numbers and from my understanding memory speed will be 2500mhz with 512bit and 1024MB total.
 
roflcopter said:
Wow, nice marketing. Spread rumours to keep people from buying a G80. Would be great if these specs are true.
Click to expand...
Well if NVIDIA can pull off a hard launch on November 7th, no amount of marketing will erase having actual product to play with.
 
Blauman said:
who cares how fast it is if there is no software to allow it to all be used. You can play all games at super high res and 4xAA with current gen cards, until the software comes out to compliment the hardware changes it is worthless to upgrade to the card. Now mind you the software is coming, but the hardware is so far ahead of software usually that these so called Next Gen cards will be in either the 2nd or 3rd refresh before the software starts to really sturate the market. But dont get me wrong, if the specs turn out to be true this thing will be a beast of a card. I know I sounded pecimistic but I still look forward to hardware changes all the time. Its just for me buying the hardware with little to no software to support the "new" features its pointless, but thats me.
Click to expand...
if you have a nice big monitor then you'll be able to make use of it with current-gen games.
 
Soymilk said:
if you have a nice big monitor then you'll be able to make use of it with current-gen games.
Click to expand...

while not huge I do have a 20.1 WS LCD. And the top tier current cards can play all games at the monitors native res with all the goodies turned on. Now if you are going to go with a 24" and up then got Xfire or SLI, but the new gen will do it with a single card solution more than likely. I am just not adopter of fresh new hardware.
 
Still looks like R600 + RD600 + conroe for my first new build since 2002. Hopefully it will be out in time for christmas.. but I know it won't be. Not because I am "In the know" .. but simply because I don't have that kinda luck. :(
 
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