R600 Date

[snowysnowcones]

What makes you think R600 will launch at a low price? Recent video card launches have all been very expensive and usually inflated the first few weeks until they settle to MSRP, which on its own is high. You don't really think ATI's going to launch their premier part at a mid-range price, do you? Any company is there to make money, not be generous.

If R600 is better than the G80, it will drive G80 prices down. If its not, the G80 prices are already down, so you'll still end up saving money, rather than buying right when it comes out. Especially, when you don't need a DX10 card.
I don't know about you, but it makes sense to me.

 

[ManicOne]

Just a purveyor of common sense. Getting so defensive would indicate you're what you supposedly loathe (being a "fan"), of ATI.

Previous card to my X19 was a 68GT. Last 2 rigs I've built for friends contained a 79GT and a 7950GT.

I just find it interesting that in a thread titled "R600 Date", you keep bringing up NV's current availability, and suggesting that it would be silly to wait (even though neither ATI or NV have shown any DX10 numbers yet).

Whichever card is best, is best. Period. Only bias I can see here is coming from you m8.

 

[That's_Corporate]

Where do you get that it's a mostly-DX9 game?

Just because *you* don't like the graphics (they're actually pretty good, though) and the game type doesn't mean it's not an important release to many gamers.

Uhhhhh, cause it's a DX9 game with DX10 parts thrown on?
Just look at wikipedia HAHAHA

And if you remember I said "IMO"
If you didn't know, that stands for "in my opinion"
So I'm not trying to say the game sucks in general, I said that "in my opinion" it sucks.
And everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just like your opinion that nVidia > Jesus

 

[Varmint]

Saving money?

What's that?

The 2006 savings rate in the US was - 1%, the lowest rate since the Great Depression.

 

[That's_Corporate]

What's that?

The 2006 savings rate in the US was - 1%, the lowest rate since the Great Depression.

Spending it all in Iraq perhaps
LOL

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

whats this about not needing a DX10 card, yea you dont need one NOW, but it also runs every DX9 game FASTER with better IQ, how can you argue against that (true for the 8800 series, hope its the same for the R600)

 

[moon02]

the argument is not whether the 8800 is the fastest available, the argument why upgrade to it when your current card runs everything at a acceptable level of performance. dx10 games will change this but not hardware. It is also worth nothing the prices will fall when ATI releases their card, for a budget minded person this is a much smarter buying time.

 

[phide]

I just find it interesting that in a thread titled "R600 Date", you keep bringing up NV's current availability, and suggesting that it would be silly to wait (even though neither ATI or NV have shown any DX10 numbers yet).

Not only that, but he recently created an entire thread explaining why he bought an 8800 rather than waiting for an R600-based card in response to continual questions from people who were merely asking why some have chosen not to wait. It blows my mind!

My point still stands though, ATI's early adoption of dotnet has allowed them to get to grips with Vista better than NV so far

With the aspects of the control panel, yes, probably. I'm not sure if .NET is really something that needs firm "grasping", as the languages available for .NET development are very akin to regular languages (such as C#), but ATi did stand to gain a small advantage from being "first out of the gate".

ATi is doing fairly well with regards to Vista because, partly, they have a much smaller workload. It seems that NVIDIA needs to pump out six different drivers to satisfy their range of products, while ATi currently needs two. ATi is fortunate, in some respects, to have not launched a DX10 part pre-Vista.

Of course, that doesn't mean that ATi's Vista support is not without its own problems, but they're still doing fairly well considering the circumstances.

the argument is not whether the 8800 is the fastest available, the argument why upgrade to it when your current card runs everything at a acceptable level of performance.

"Acceptable" is a definition that will vary between two or more people. Acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you and vice versa. In that sense, the "whys" cannot be argued.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Not only that, but he recently created an entire thread explaining why he bought an 8800 rather than waiting for an R600-based card in response to continual questions from people who were merely asking why some have chosen not to wait. It blows my mind!

Your arguments blow my mind, too. At least I presented logical arguments in a polite fashion in response to you saying "why not wait?". All you are able to do is go "but but but it's gonna be good, I swear!!! they have had so much time!!!!", and ask us to convince you. The only reason I even bother posting my 8800 experiences is because your one-sidedness is likely to lead to many people making a decision they won't like later. At least allow for both sides to have their fair say. I even asked for the thread to be closed because you couldn't help but turn it into a flamefest that I felt would erupt further if it was allowed to continue. Let it be. Why is it wrong to create a thread about my opinion, yet yours are so holy that they must not be consecrated with any impure thoughts?

 

[GoldenTiger]

Uhhhhh, cause it's a DX9 game with DX10 parts thrown on?
Just look at wikipedia HAHAHA

And if you remember I said "IMO"
If you didn't know, that stands for "in my opinion"
So I'm not trying to say the game sucks in general, I said that "in my opinion" it sucks.
And everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just like your opinion that nVidia > Jesus

Wikipedia on gaming is, to say the least, very inaccurate/unreliable generally.

So if everyone's entitled to their opinion, why do you keep flaming mine into ashes when presented in a polite, logical fashion?

Why am I supposedly an nVidia "fan" just because I enjoy my purchase? I think it's quite obvious who the "fans" are: those who don't even own any product and have no facts to back them up, yet blindly yell at anyone who tries to present a more equal, objective viewpoint on the current status of each company.

the argument is not whether the 8800 is the fastest available, the argument why upgrade to it when your current card runs everything at a acceptable level of performance. dx10 games will change this but not hardware. It is also worth nothing the prices will fall when ATI releases their card, for a budget minded person this is a much smarter buying time.

No one who thinks this way would even be looking at R600 vs. 8800. They would have no reason to care, so I fail to see the point of this attempt to divert attention from the topic at hand.

 

[phide]

...

I'm afraid you have mistaken me for someone else. I commented only on your thread and your comments, not on whether or not individuals should wait for R600-based cards. My stance is that people should feel free to do whatever it is they please with their hard-earned dollar.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I'm afraid you have mistaken me for someone else. I commented only on your thread and your comments, not on whether or not individuals should wait for R600-based cards. My stance is that people should feel free to do whatever it is they please with their hard-earned dollar.

More hypocritical thinking... you are saying I shouldn't be commenting on your words that were in another thread, yet you do so to mine from another thread. Very funny double standard, . You've yet to explain why it's wrong to answer the other end of the question, "Why not wait for R600" in the form of "Why should we wait for R600". I guess it's because you seem too engrossed by ATI?

 

[blackacidevil]

Saving money?

What makes you think R600 will launch at a low price? Recent video card launches have all been very expensive and usually inflated the first few weeks until they settle to MSRP, which on its own is high. You don't really think ATI's going to launch their premier part at a mid-range price, do you? Any company is there to make money, not be generous.

I think he meant US "saving money" so we can buy the damn thing when it launches....if R600 is going to be priced in or around the same as the GTX when it launched, it ain't gonna be cheap.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I think he meant US "saving money" so we can buy the damn thing when it launches....if R600 is going to be priced in or around the same as the GTX when it launched, it ain't gonna be cheap.

Ahhhhhhh... yeah, that makes sense then .

 

[phide]

More hypocritical thinking... you are saying I shouldn't be commenting on your words that were in another thread, yet you do so to mine from another thread.

I implore you to go back through my previous posts and find where I mentioned anything along the lines of "wait for R600", "don't wait for R600", or that unmistakable gem of a comment, "but but but it's gonna be good, I swear!!! they have had so much time!!!!" (as you seem to recall me saying this). You mention that I've said such things, but I clearly don't recall them.

My past 100 posts are available for easy sequential viewing here.

I'm sorry, but you've clearly mistaken me with someone else. No big deal, but it needs to be noted.

"Why not wait for R600" in the form of "Why should we wait for R600". I guess it's because you seem too engrossed by ATI?

Ask R1ckCa1n, fallguy and others about my seemingly-obvious ATi fanaticism. They'll tell you that I've been no friend of Canada Red.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I implore you to go back through my previous posts and find where I mentioned anything along the lines of "wait for R600", "don't wait for R600", or that unmistakable gem of a comment, "but but but it's gonna be good, I swear!!! they have had so much time!!!!" (as you seem to recall me saying this). You mention that I've said such things, but I clearly don't recall them.

I hope you're joking... I would have used quote tags and a link if you said "but but but it's gonna be good, I swear!!!" verbatim. You've said it in other ways by agreeing with people who say it, but what kind of moron really speaks like that kind of joking paraphrase on a forum? Get real. It's sad when to defend your arguments you now pretend they were never made. At least be accountable for your own words.

EDIT: (notice there's no edit date, meaning it took me very little time to find it):

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030586463&postcount=41

You respond to me saying that people may want to consider getting a G80 which is here now and works,

Isn't the main point of the thread for you to be able to spread propaganda?

That is directly saying that the notion of getting a G80 is "propaganda" and that people should wait for R600.


EDIT2:
Also:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030588124&postcount=57

Typically, the term "flamebait" is reserved for threads that are designed to spark one-sided debates to non-issues. The typical flamebait thread has no real purpose

In response to me saying that people should also consider G80 and explaining why I decided to get one myself.

 

[phide]

This will be my last word on this, as I really think our conversation is detracting from the intent of the thread. I posed a challenge and your response to the challenge was to quote two statements I made, make assumptions as to their true meanings and formulate scenarios as to their context to support your argument. I am actually quite sickened by the context you fabricated for the first quotation.

I'm not in any way put off, however, as any rational person could clearly see through such blatant fabrications and misrepresentations. In any case, thanks for accepting my little challenge there.

What makes you think R600 will launch at a low price?

The top-end R600-based (technically, R600 is the name of the chip, not the name or codename of the cards) cards should actually be a bit more expensive than the 8800 GTX was at launch due to the amount and type of RAM. AMD might be able to pull it out for less than $649, though I highly doubt it. $699 is a more reasonable estimation, which means that we might see day-one pricing beyond $750.

 

[Caffeinated]

If R600 is better than the G80, it will drive G80 prices down. If its not, the G80 prices are already down, so you'll still end up saving money, rather than buying right when it comes out. Especially, when you don't need a DX10 card.
I don't know about you, but it makes sense to me.

Makes perfect sense to me, too, which is why I don't currently have a DX10 card, though I do want one.

Honestly, though, I personally have been waiting for a while now and it is getting old. At this rate, it might be the end of April or even May before the R600 and mainstream card releases affect pricing. The 8800 prices have come down some, but they still aren't what I want to pay.

As is oft repeated in these types of threads, though, there are no DX10 games to play anyway, so some of it is a case of wanting it just to have it. That doesn't justify a $400 (GTS) upgrade in my book.

 

[BullsEyeBob]

@GoldenTiger: You are obviously a NV fan. Why are you continually "stealth threadcrapping"?

That's an understatement. This guy (tiger) is very very annoying and he knows it.

 

[Caffeinated]

Ask R1ckCa1n, fallguy and others about my seemingly-obvious ATi fanaticism. They'll tell you that I've been no friend of Canada Red.

I can say that, as well. I've also seen you on other forums beside here and you've never given me the impression that you are an ATI Fanatic. I find it humorous that someone would accuse you of such. You have also never given me the idea that you are unwilling to participate in a civil and well-reasoned discussion/debate. I wish the same could be said for everyone on this forum.

Can we please get back to the discussion at hand now? Further argument will convince no one and annoy everyone. (This isn't directed at anyone in particular - I'd just like to return to the thread topic)

 

[Caffeinated]

As far as pricing, I'd agree that we aren't going to be seeing it launch for less than the 8800 GTX did, and the prices will likely be inflated at first. I would venture to guess that if we start seeing them mid-April, prices won't settle down until mid-May.

Here's a weird little article I saw earlier - R600 Pricing

They seem to think that the 1GB DDR4 cards will only go to OEMs and that retail will only see the 512Mb ones. Now A) I don't know the accuracy of this article and B) it leaves me with a question. OEMs don't necessarily have to be system builders, do they? Meaning the 12" OEM cards could be rebranded by ATI board partners? Or am I off base?

 

[rahavsmt]

As is oft repeated in these types of threads, though, there are no DX10 games to play anyway, so some of it is a case of wanting it just to have it. That doesn't justify a $400 (GTS) upgrade in my book.

What about improvement in DX9 games? Doesn't the 8800GTX blow even X1950XTX in crossfire out of the water?

 

[GoldenTiger]

What about improvement in DX9 games? Doesn't the 8800GTX blow even X1950XTX in crossfire out of the water?

Yes, it does. However, people instead try to cling to brand loyalty instead of just buying what's out there now and good. Also, I'm apparrently a "fan" for pointing that out, but I guess people will think what they want in the name of their silly brand loyalty Be careful, they'll soon think of you as the same, ridiculing you simply for presenting facts that debase their opinions

 

[phide]

They seem to think that the 1GB DDR4 cards will only go to OEMs and that retail will only see the 512Mb ones.

That seems a little silly. I'd think the exact opposite: 512MB for OEMs and 1GB for retail units.

$599 is an okay estimation for what they refer to as the retail version, which would put the OEM version at around $699 if it were sold in retail. But...I'm not buying this rumoured arrangement. I expect a 1GB model, sold in retail at around $699, with about the same length as the 8800 GTX (or possibly somewhat smaller). I expect that it will surpass the GTX performance-wise by no more than about 15%. I assume that the XT (or GT, or whatever) will come in with 512MB, possibly GDDR4, and will land somewhere near $499, possibly as high as $549.

We'll see what happens with NVIDIA's refresher, but if they go with a gig of GDDR3 or GDDR4, they'll probably stick with the $649 MSRP, which would put it in the middle ground while still probably surpassing the XTX (or whatever) by an incredibly small margin in performance.

Tough call, but AMD may be willing to cut margins slim and undercut NVIDIA's refresher.

Oh, and thanks for the kindly words.

What about improvement in DX9 games? Doesn't the 8800GTX blow even X1950XTX in crossfire out of the water?

Simply put: It sure does. There's no match for G80's prowess at this point. We have no indications of DX10 performance yet, but there's also no reason to assume that it's another GeForce FX. We're going to have to wait and see, but I expect that G80's DX10 performance will be excellent.

 

[Caffeinated]

What about improvement in DX9 games? Doesn't the 8800GTX blow even X1950XTX in crossfire out of the water?

Absolutely it does. Looking at my post, it does seem to imply that it isn't a worthwhile upgrade, which is NOT what I think. I'd LOVE to have one, I'm just not willing to pay $400 for it right now. What I meant, but didn't communicate as clearly as I should have, was that $400 it isn't justified if the only reason is for DX10.

Personally, my feelings are "Who cares about Vista - people have reported that the drivers don't work and there's no games to use DX10" - bring on an affordable, blazing fast card in DX9 that also supports DX10. I will be all over it. I'm hoping that we see some cards in the ~$200-$250 range before too long, but rest assured I most definitely will be buying a DX10 something or other that rocks in DX9 and would already own a Geforce 8800 GTX or GTS if they weren't so darn expensive.

I hope that clears my feelings up .

 

[Jbirney]

I expect that it will surpass the GTX performance-wise by no more than about 15%.

Just wondering why you thought this? Are you talking over all perfromance? As with that big BW Advantage (assuming 512bit bus and mem clock speeds rumors are true) then one would think there are cases where the R600 should be much faster (high BW cases).

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Yes, it does. However, people instead try to cling to brand loyalty instead of just buying what's out there now and good. Also, I'm apparrently a "fan" for pointing that out, but I guess people will think what they want in the name of their silly brand loyalty Be careful, they'll soon think of you as the same, ridiculing you simply for presenting facts that debase their opinions

it's a pretty simple equation, if someone doesn't need an 8800 and currently have an x1900 x1800 which plays the games they want just fine, then why upgrade? wait till they have more options is alright, I got rid of my 8800 becauase only 1game I play really benifited NFS-C when i finished that i had a $700 paperweight, so i sold it =p

 

[razor1]

Just wondering why you thought this? Are you talking over all perfromance? As with that big BW Advantage (assuming 512bit bus and mem clock speeds rumors are true) then one would think there are cases where the R600 should be much faster (high BW cases).

the bandwidth advantage is only by the clocks of the vram and the extra 25% (and because of the burst rate increase the even higher clocks won't give the extact same increase of the increased clocks)

So I don't expect more then a 20% increase overall in most recent games, because of bottlenecks aren't fully bandwidth bound if AMD is using 1.0 ghz GDDR4 ram. Games like Oblivion and FEAR are more fillrate bound then bandwidth, COD2 and BF2 will show closer to the bandwidth % increase though.

 

[That's_Corporate]

Yes, it does. However, people instead try to cling to brand loyalty instead of just buying what's out there now and good. Also, I'm apparrently a "fan" for pointing that out, but I guess people will think what they want in the name of their silly brand loyalty Be careful, they'll soon think of you as the same, ridiculing you simply for presenting facts that debase their opinions

You need to chill out. You're in an ATI section blasting people for wanting to purchase the next greatest ATI card.

I like Lexus and I'm eagerly awaiting the new IS-F, you gonna jump all over that one too and say I should buy a car that's out NOW even though it's not the one I want?

Personal preference goes a long way in purchase decisions, it's called brand loyalty, and there's not a damn thing wrong with it. Hell, it's well researched and proven as a true intangible benefit.

If you think your rants are actually going to affect the way people spend their hard earned cash, you got another thing coming.

You have your G80 or whatever and are happy, so why are you even talking about this card in the first place if you're not even going to buy it? Go make a thread called "nVidia G80 owners who aren't going to buy the R600 but want you to know what they think". I guarantee you'll get no posts from people who actually like and purhcase ATI products, the people this subsection was made for. WOW! GO FIGURE!

 

[Silus]

it's a pretty simple equation, if someone doesn't need an 8800 and currently have an x1900 x1800 which plays the games they want just fine, then why upgrade? wait till they have more options is alright, I got rid of my 8800 becauase only 1game I play really benifited NFS-C when i finished that i had a $700 paperweight, so i sold it =p

I'm sorry, are you saying you sold your 8800 GTX (I'm assuming it was a GTX, since you mention $700), because, at this point, you only saw benefits in one of the games you played ? How so ? You had the most powerful card out there, that plays today's games, without breaking a sweat, with all the eye candy on (and then some) and will run, at least the first gen of DX10 games, good enough (since it's the card being used to develop these games) and you got rid of it, to get a X1950 Pro ?

I'm very confused...One thing is to wait for more options i.e. more affordable DX10 cards (below the $400 mark). But having the most powerful card and get rid of it, to get a card that will start to stress in future games much more than the GTX, is quite another.
I don't think it's even a question of money. If you had the money to buy it in the first place, you surely didn't need it at that time.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

I'm sorry, are you saying you sold your 8800 GTX (I'm assuming it was a GTX, since you mention $700), because, at this point, you only saw benefits in one of the games you played ? How so ? You had the most powerful card out there, that plays today's games, without breaking a sweat, with all the eye candy on (and then some) and will run, at least the first gen of DX10 games, good enough (since it's the card being used to develop these games) and you got rid of it, to get a X1950 Pro ?

I'm very confused...One thing is to wait for more options i.e. more affordable DX10 cards (below the $400 mark). But having the most powerful card and get rid of it, to get a card that will start to stress in future games much more than the GTX, is quite another.
I don't think it's even a question of money. If you had the money to buy it in the first place, you surely didn't need it at that time.

it's very simple, the other games that I play, don't need an 8800gtx
cs 1.6? lineage 2, and media player doesn't erally benifit from an 8800gtx, when more games come out that I will play and need more power, then i'll buy a new card again, but I'd rather have the $ in my pocket till then, plus im sure the 8800 and the R600 will be cheaper then =)

if that wasnt clear enough here is the short version, there was 1 game I WANTED to play and my card couldn't push it, so i bought the GTX, finished that game and sold the GTX 0.0

 

[Spoonie_G]

R600? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I got tired of waiting for even a release date to be announced much less the actual product.

I've been an ATI fan boy for the longest (9800pro, x800,x1800xt). Before that I was an Nvidia Fan boy (Original Ge-force,2,3). And before that, Lets see… Dual Voodoo 2’s , RIVA TNT, Canopus. I’ve pretty much had them all.

I upgraded from an X1800xt to an 8800gts. Even though I could have kept the X1800xt for a little longer, it was starting to struggle at the higher resolutions (1920x1200). I needed a card that would be able to play games at the highest resolution of my display. The Ideal plan was to wait for ATI but ATI seems to be on a downturn right now.

I can understand brand loyalty. But if a company’s products aren’t competitive anymore, and the company is struggling with product release dates, I’m out of there. Right now NV is kicking ATI’s butt, just like Intel is kicking AMD’s butt.

I just built a new PC this X-mas. Even though I’ve been an AMD Fan boy since the Athlon 800 (3400+, 1800+ were my prior machines), when it came time to purchase a CPU I would have been a fool to purchase an AMD Processor this X-mas. The Intel chips were outperforming the AMD chips at half the price. There isn’t that much “Brand Loyalty” in the world IMO.

Whatever brand has the best product that’s what I’ll get. Before it was ATI/AMD, but now its NV/INTEL that seems to be the best combo. I will never let “brand loyalty” skew my judgment.

 

[WarMace]

I wouldn't call waiting to see "Brand loyalty". Just like Intel and AMD took diffrent paths to deliver quad core... nVidia, and AMD are taking diffrent paths to deliver D3d10. Its only fair to see whats better in the end.

But i do see your point.

Take Robert Heron (PC Magazine's HDTV lab manager) for example, this guy knows more about upcoming TV's than any reporter I know. Yet he struggles to buy a TV for himself. Why? Because when you know there is something that is just over the horizon, its hard to buy now. Then your stuck waiting for the next best thing. His solution? "You have to draw a line in the sand" and say "If its not out by X then I'm going with what is."

Edit: But knowing that Game Developers don't wait for cards before developing games, I would predict all the D3d10 games later this year will run best on nVidia because they outfitted their studios with 8800's as soon as possible to start optimization.

 

[That's_Corporate]

I wouldn't call waiting to see "Brand loyalty". Just like Intel and AMD took diffrent paths to deliver quad core... nVidia, and AMD are taking diffrent paths to deliver D3d10. Its only fair to see whats better in the end.

But i do see your point.

Take Robert Heron (PC Magazine's HDTV lab manager) for example, this guy knows more about upcoming TV's than any reporter I know. Yet he struggles to buy a TV for himself. Why? Because when you know there is something that is just over the horizon, its hard to buy now. Then your stuck waiting for the next best thing. His solution? "You have to draw a line in the sand" and say "If its not out by X then I'm going with what is."

Edit: But knowing that Game Developers don't wait for cards before developing games, I would predict all the D3d10 games later this year will run best on nVidia because they outfitted their studios with 8800's as soon as possible to start optimization.

But I thought ATI worked closely with MS with DX10? More closely that nVidia. If anything, wouldn't ATI work better with Vista? That's just what I heard, I dunno. Something to do with the X360.

 

[quadnad]

But I thought ATI worked closely with MS with DX10? More closely that nVidia. If anything, wouldn't ATI work better with Vista? That's just what I heard, I dunno. Something to do with the X360.

I'm not sure about the DX10 part of what you said, but the thing with the 360 is that Xenos (used on the 360) was the first time the unified shader architecture was used. The idea is that ATi should have a leg up in getting a more efficient design going because this will technically be their second-gen unified shader part. Time will tell!

 

[Caffeinated]

R600? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I got tired of waiting for even a release date to be announced much less the actual product.

And here is the point where some people are going to jump ship.

My current desktop card desperately needs an upgrade, because it is starting to show its age and stutters in some games with high quality settings. I've made the mistake in the past of spending a lot of money on a high-end, just released card and didn't feel I got my money's worth. I think 8800 owners have gotten their moneys worth this round, because if they bought it around release, they've had the highest of the high end for 3 months now, and will for at least another couple of months.


I've been waiting for ATI to show their hand and possibly offer a better product or at least cause prices to fall to a more reasonable (in my opinion) level. As time goes by, though, we keep seeing that it will be here soon, it will be here soon, it will be here soon..ad infinitum. It won't be long before my current card irritates me enough to spark an upgrade - I just decided that I also want future DX10 compatibility from my next purchase.

I need an upgrade, but not $400 worth, and I don't think I'm alone in that category. What I do think is that when I start seeing cards at the price I want to pay, no matter who makes them, that's the one I am going to buy. For people like me, that's where lack of a DX10 compatible solution from ATI is currently pushing them out of the running. The Geforce 8800 GTS 320MB is getting released this week, and if it is reasonably priced, benchmarks well, and is available, I'm probably going to buy it. The race isn't always to the swift; sometimes it's to those that can actually get their product to market at a price point people want to pay first.

 

[phide]

Just wondering why you thought this? Are you talking over all perfromance?

Talking about performance in today's titles and titles six months or so down the road (including Crysis). I ballparked the 15% figure by taking into account the rumours we've seen so far: fairly low shader clock speeds (no indication of disjointed clock speeds), 64 Vec3 ALUs, ~2.0 GHz GDDR4, 512-bit bus.

On paper, bandwidth is great. You want enough bandwidth for the subsystems to not get choked constantly, but going completely overboard tends to not be terribly advantageous. I think the 8800 GTX has bandwidth to satisfy, but we'd see some gains had it a true 512-bit bus. From a shader ops perspective, which is what really counts these days, R600 doesn't seem terribly efficient (G80's scheduler can feed all ALUs full-time, all the time, theoretically) or terribly fast (based on initial rumours). I expect that it will surpass G80 in raw shading performance slightly.

15% seems reasonable to me, and the performance should be fairly consistent. That would give AMD the crown for a while, but the 8900 GTX may be able to take it back very narrowly, and possibly do so for a lower price.

Really, this is all speculatory. It could end being very close to 15%, or it could be 50%, 75%, or any other arbitrary figure.

EDIT: Oh, and also, relatively small performance increases are going to matter Big Time for the next wave of titles like UT3 and Crysis. If the GTX can knock out 35 frames per second in an imaginary "CrysisMark", 15% would give the R600 card about 40 frames, which could mean the difference between playable and fairly unplayable. I suspect Crysis is going to be one of those games you really think about overclocking for.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

you can also look at it from a "Buisness" POV why would either NV or ATI/AMD want to drop all of their tricks into 1 card? I'm sure both can pump out a card thats is 2-3x the performance of 8800GTX cards, but then what would you buy in 1 year? nothing cuz they wouldn't have come up with something faster and better, we're fairly behind their research curve in what we see on the consumer market, that keeps the channels full of products to sell.

 

[MrWizard6600]

To the OP: last I heard was that ATI tried to set it in stone for March 7.

The G80, and the R600 are two great cores, to be sure. We know that the G80 is almost ready for SM4.0 and the Unified Shader (NV dubbed: Stream Processor {SP}) driver, and as NV has stated many times the G80 can do Physics calculations thanks to its SIMD twelve stage design, it can do almost anything, so long as the 12 stages can accomplish it. The R600 is, right now, quite a mystery card, with some massive numbers confirmed. A 512bit memory bus (ATI dubbed: Ring Bus)? over 150gb/s of memory bandwidth? Are you insane? But the number 64 keeps coming up, and it would appear the R600 has 64 Unified shaders. There clock and arrangement is still not known to me (or you guys, if you do know something please post it, but i try to keep up-to-date on this sort of stuff). So who's better? Is the R600 worth waiting for?

Who's better? well, that's something we're just going to have to wait for, as that article written by "level 505" has been proven false in my mind (no webmaster info given, no other articles, no previous computer work cited, Who are these guys?). And 128 Unified shaders should be better then 64 Unified shaders, right? Well that depends highly on how they're laid out.

Is the R600 worth waiting for? 100% defiantly, I am, just in a sneaky way. Even if you think ATI is trash, and the R600 doesn't stand a chance at defeating the G80, it is sure, at least, to put a little bit more pressure on Nvidia. Its not definite that NV will change their prices, but its certainly not a long shot, and if the R600 does outperform, and they sell the card for $599, you can bet your ass NV will play the price game. My strategy was buy GTS now, from EVGA, let the R600 put the heat on the 8800GTX, then step up. I still have ~$300 in an account just waiting for the right moment to strike. Plus on this old clunky CRT monitor the 8800GTS is just perfect (this thing really is a screamer, I've been through many an upgrade and this is by far the biggest bump I've gotten, and it was not the most expensive).

So, even with the little we know about the R600, we can come to the conclusion it is certainly something to take into a large piece of consideration when purchasing your next upgrade, be your strategy: wait for the R600 or, do something more like what I did, let the R600 put the heat on the G80, for your benefit.

Now, as for Golden Tiger, and his little marry band of premptive flamers, and counter flamers (this includes anyone who's made a post having no relation to the OP): STFU and GTFO. We don't need to know your personal sensationalist opinions. How do you know when your opinions are sensationalistic? When people start replying to them with there own sensationalism. The best thing you guys can do right now is unsubscribe to the thread. You've said all you needed to say, and you've made this thread into somewhat of a mud-war.

 

[damonposey]

Sensational post there, mr wizard! Sensational!